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Old    Josh Brown (midwestrider)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-24-2003, 2:26 PM Reply   
This is a continuation thread from the "Down Payment" thread still running. I am looking for exactly what to expect on my first boat purchase next spring.

I have never purchased a boat before and I understand the "luxury item" mentality behind boat loans. What I don't understand is what up front costs I can expect. I have heard everything from a minimum 10% down payment, to maybe even having to pay the tax up front. Can anyone who has bought a boat recently confirm these statements?

Obviously, I understand the less money I finance, the less interest I will have to pay. However, I am not an engineer, lawyer, or exec, so throwing cash down on a boat is not an option. I know I am going to take it in the arse in finance charges on a 15 year boat loan, but to me and the enjoyment I would get out of my very own precious little toy, the screwing is worth it.

As most of you are familiar with, my wifey of course wants to see all of the numbers and doesn't like surprises. Therefore, I am triple checking that I have all of my ducks in a row so that I know going in what to expect.

I want to thank all of the patrons of this board. I have read and gained volumes of great information from the regulars of wakeworld (I even now have a wakeworld sticker on the back of my truck ). A little more help here will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


Jb
Old    grantmi1            06-24-2003, 6:09 PM Reply   
You way crack me up, no advice here.
Old    stormrider            06-24-2003, 6:25 PM Reply   
Jb: I was looking at a SANSE. Sent in a credit ap. Bank of America Specialty Financing agreed to loan 100%, or the total purchase price. All I do is show up, sign and pick up the boat. Interest rate is 6%.
Old    grantmi1            06-24-2003, 6:50 PM Reply   
Nice I am going with BofA too
Old    ManFox (h20jnky)      Join Date: Mar 2003       06-24-2003, 9:40 PM Reply   
Beware.....

If you don't put the money down up front, it's gonna come out of your pocket when you try/need to sell!

Of course BofA went 100%!! It's a win, win for them, here's why: 100% financing for new purchase = "buried for life" and they get every penny of that interest for 15 years........

Choose wisely for this kind of investment.....

Good Luck
Old    grantmi1            06-25-2003, 12:00 AM Reply   
I realize that, but you can always pay more to principal, which I am going to do. Its just the way it is. If I buy half the boat it isnt going to be much different a month only for fewer years and it isnt what I want. If I am going to work hard and pay for something it better be what I want. My theory as dumb as it might be. Real hard to get into wake board boat without paying quite a bit of money havent you noticed. It is an expensive sport.

(Message edited by grantmi1 on June 25, 2003)
Old    grantmi1            06-25-2003, 12:02 AM Reply   
They rape us on our houses too but do I complain for something that is not a bit of fun at all.
Old    mattbroad            06-25-2003, 11:08 AM Reply   
JB:

I hear you, but I'll pass on what our local Nauti dealer tells people: "you either pay the down payment at the beginning or at the end". In other words, if you buy the boat with no money down and sell it in the first few years you will be upside down on the loan and have to pony up some cash just to sell the boat.

Old    Josh Brown (midwestrider)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-25-2003, 11:38 AM Reply   
Thank you Steven, Ryan, and Matt. I appreciate the input. I understand about the whole depreciation and all, but that is why I have waited as long as I have to buy my first boat. Sure I could buy something just to get into a boat, but I didn't want to do that. The boat I plan to purchase will be a boat big enough to accomodate all the family and friends interested in going out and has all of the options to make it a boat that I plan on keeping for a long time. I have no desire at this time to get another boat until I am too old and crusty to pull out the board anymore and then I will probably go with a nice I/O.

Therefore, barring future financial crisis, I intend on buying the boat I will be happy with for at least the next 10-15 years. Does that make anymore sense in my thinking? I am not one who has to have the latest and greatest that throws the phattest wake possible.

I want a clean, dependable boat that throws a decent wake and can convert to a decent slalom wake for the skiers in the family. That is why I don't feel the need to get just any ol' boat and worry about upgrading down the road. If that is the case, I won't be buying a $40k boat and the down payment/tax issues will not be as large a consideration. Thanks again.

Jb
Old    stormrider            06-25-2003, 11:41 AM Reply   
Sounds to me like you have it dialed in and well-analyzed. Now's the tough part, choosing a boat! My only suggestion there is to buy from a local dealer who has the demonstrated capacity to service what they sell. A new boat with a warranty could be best. Used, bit more of a risk, but who knows. Good luck.
Old    barryb            06-25-2003, 12:29 PM Reply   
Josh, my plan was exactly the same as yours. My first boat was a Moomba Mobius. It had the slick tower, the inboard I wanted, plenty of space for fat sacks, a great wake for those throwback slalom days, and was inexpensive besides! I was set for life!
Well... Then I had a problem with the carb and the dealer kept the boat for 6 weeks. OK, I'll do that myself... Then my riding progressed and I needed to go faster than I could behind the moomba and maintain a good wake.
So, a year later I do tons of research (again), a bunch of test driving, ask lots of questions, and end up with a Tige 21V. Man was I set for life!
A year and a half later and my perspective sure had changed. More research, more questions, and a super air pops out the other side. And this is my third season on it! Wow, maybe I'll actually keep this one.


Now, I strongly recommend to anyone I know looking for a boat that they find what they want and buy one several years old so they can afford to sell it after they change their mind.

On the other hand, if I hadn't had any more money I would still be riding behind that Moomba and loving it!

Good luck with whatever your decision is. On financing, I recently found a rate of 4.75% on new boats at a credit union in Austin.
Old    6more            06-25-2003, 12:52 PM Reply   
Josh - reality check - you won't keep the boat for 15 yrs. Things happen, your life changes, and you find that you either don't need the boat, or you need/want a different boat. You might keep it 10 years, but I doubt any longer than that.

You haven't mentioned if you are looking for a new boat or a used boat. I would suggest used if you are worried about the finances. That's advice more people need to listen too.

There is nothing wrong with buying a boat that is 1-3 years old and paying a lot less for it. Heck, we bought a boat that was 5 years old and still run the heck out of it today, five years later. However, I'm glad we bought used because the boat has been paid for a long time, and I foresee wanting a different boat in a few years. I'll easily be in a position to trade up when I want. I'll probably buy used again too. If I was still paying $200-400 a month, I wouldn't be able to do anything with the boat.

Good luck. I hope everything works out for you. I know how hard it can be to get the Admirals approval .
Old    Sandy Vandebult (sandbag)      Join Date: May 2002       06-25-2003, 1:46 PM Reply   
Admiral! Ain't that the truth.
You THINK you are the captain of your ship.
But its always the Admiral who decides when
its time to go home! You're only in charge
when something is going wrong!!!

Josh, you're 27 right? You still driving
your first car? No way will you keep your
first boat 10-15 yrs! NO WAY!!!!

Anybody on this board owned their boat for more
than 5 years? ANYBODY?










Old    grantmi1            06-25-2003, 1:51 PM Reply   
My parents, theirs is a 1988, and looks new because I took care of it. With the boat I am getting I can gaurantee that I will.
Old    grantmi1            06-25-2003, 1:55 PM Reply   
Holy did you find that? What credit union?
Old    Josh Brown (midwestrider)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-25-2003, 2:55 PM Reply   
So you guys are saying put up or look at a cheaper "starter" boat huh? The problem I find with that is a couple things. First off, if you don't buy new, from what I understand, used boat financing is for a max 10 years. Therefore, I would have to drop down $10-$12K to be able to keep payments where I want them on a used boat.

I have been checking out Flipsell daily and the local boat trader every week or so. For one, there isn't a huge used inboard market in Indiana and two, most boats that I find that have everything I want right out of the box are still priced at $30-$35K even when they are 3-4 years old. So either these owners are setting the opening price way high and coming down quite a bit, or I am still not going to be able to afford a boat I would be happy with.

Just for reference, the two new boats I am interested in are:

Supra SSV
Tige 22V

The used boats I have been looking at are:

Supra SSV
X-star
Wakesetter
Nauti Supersport or Pro Air
Tige 21V (but I hate the old Metcraft towers)

Before all you boat bashers out there even start in, I like the styling, construction, size, configuration, price, and versatility of the two new boats I listed above. Sure they both retail for mid $40s with the options I want, but I am hoping to negotiate a sweet deal with a couple local contacts I have. The one big positive for the Tige is the local dealer moves a lot of boats and does very good work. The local Supra dealer is a smaller operation and I don't know about their customer support which may eliminate the Supra from the picture.

Now perhaps I have my sights set a bit high for my first boat, but I don't think I would be happier with anything less. The only problem with going used is that the factory warranties will probably have expired and they are still friggin expensive boats!

So there it is, I am completely confused now. So where do I go now?

Jb
Old    stormrider            06-25-2003, 3:02 PM Reply   
Yeah, you've got quite a list. Keep working the problem, though, and the choices will start narrowing themselves down. Seems to me like you are totally on the right track.
Old    grantmi1            06-25-2003, 3:17 PM Reply   
I say take advantage of the ultra low interest rates and buy a boat you normally wouldnt buy. Or at least the exact boat you want. Then worse case scenario you have to keep it, is that so bad. I mean you can role it into your house down the road and then the interest is a right off. Just do it damnit take a little risk just make sure you can afford the payment and then some.
Old    clint_h            06-25-2003, 3:20 PM Reply   
Bank of the West financed my old used boat on a 12 yr amortization. 12 can definitely be done!
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       06-25-2003, 3:35 PM Reply   
My 2 cents is that you should steer far far away from financing it for any more then 5 years. Expecialy if you are putting nothing down. If/when you go to sell it, you are going to get KILLED on the resale. If you have a 10 yr loan, and sell the boat in the first 5 years you will probably sell the boat then owe the bank money out of your pocket to pay off the rest of the loan. My buddy just got caught in this exact same scenario. Financed his boat 12 years, had a minimal down payment. New boat. Had to sell the boat after 5 years. Got fair market value for the boat, and still had to pay the bank 5 grand out of his pocket.
Old    wantboatnow            06-25-2003, 6:56 PM Reply   
Whats the average APR now for a 15 year loan? Im considering a new 04 Wakesetter LSV, but not sure what interest rates are at now.
Old    Cunning Linguist (jro)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-25-2003, 8:42 PM Reply   
Andrew is right, Please don't finance for more than 5 years...you only get upside down and then, no money for the new boat you want. People always want more, its human nature, so buy a nice used boat, fix it up to your hearts delight and in five years buy another used boat. Let someone else get upside own and take it off their hands.
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-25-2003, 10:26 PM Reply   
There is another way too. I took an 8 year loan with $10,000 down on a $20,000 used boat. This kept my payments small for when I did not have money for a larger payment. Typically I paid $1,000 a month instead of the required $340 or whatever it was. I had the boat paid off in less than one year. Most Credit Unions and such do not have early payoff penalties. I did the same thing with my last truck, but spread it over a couple of years before upgrading to a brand new truck on a three year 0%. If you always make the minimum payment on a long term loan you will be upside down. Be prepared to sell the boat for less than you owe.
Old    grantmi1            06-26-2003, 8:29 AM Reply   
I would just like to say you guys are 200% right. I tried to buy this calabria for 33,500.00 and it would have been a great boat but a total nightmare finacially. I am sorry I didn't listen earlier, luckily the process was a total nightmare in every way and the boat got bought by someone else in the process. I am going to buy a boat between $10,000.00 and $15,000.00 and have it paid off in 5 years or less and not be strapped. Thank you thank you thank you. You smart guys rock.
Old    Josh Brown (midwestrider)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-26-2003, 8:58 AM Reply   
Yeah, I think I am headed in the same direction as Mike. The Admiral and I had the family planning discussion last night and my new wakeboard boat bubble popped. She wants to have a baby in the next year or so, which means big expensive wakeboard boat will be a serious financial strain. Therefore, I think we are going to continue saving money and hopefully put down $10k on a used $15-$20k boat. I know nothing compares to the gift of a baby, but I really wanted my shiny new boat! Oh well, life happens...

Jb
Old    grantmi1            06-26-2003, 9:03 AM Reply   
We are going to have a baby too. Could we have any more similarities?
Old    Cunning Linguist (jro)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-26-2003, 10:16 AM Reply   
A baby took away my new boat two years ago...He even has a T-shirt that says "Daddy's new Boat Payment". A year later we bought a nice used boat and couldn't be happier. BTW, I could never have bought a boat and used it in any way for that first year....zero time!
Old    grantmi1            06-26-2003, 4:35 PM Reply   
Wierd I am before you?
Old     (wake_fun)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-26-2003, 5:28 PM Reply   
Test drove 03' Nautique in December 02'. Decided to have a baby. Baby due in October. Used 1995 Nautique Super Sport sitting in my garage since April 25th, 2003. Very happy I know EXACTLY what Josh is talking about!!!!!!!
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       06-27-2003, 12:09 PM Reply   
If you can afford the payments on a 5 year loan. Why not take out a 15 year loan, and make double the minimum payment? Then if down the road you can't afford the double payment for some unforeseen reason, you have a little flexibility to lower the payment if you need to or have to. That was my mentality, with our new boat, yes it does take a little discipline, but if you can handle it, then it's not a bad way to go. Make sure the loan does not have a prepayment penalty too.
Old    byerly03            06-27-2003, 2:00 PM Reply   
I always finance my boats for 10 years, and i put the minimum down payment. I have never been upside down when I sold a boat, I usually have a couple of grand left over. And I usually sell them within 2 years. I think the problem most people have is they pay way to much for a new boat to begin with. When ever i look at around 3 year old boats I can always get a new one for cheaper. Boat markups are HUGE, the dealers will nock off around 8K on the average (trust me, I have done it). You have to be willing to drive to the next state to get it though, but just play a few dealers against each other, and they will go way down in price. For example the last new boat I looked at was a Mobius LSV loaded (wakeboard pro, tower, tower speakers, ballast, etc), the retail was around $35,000 with all the options i wanted and tandem axle trailer I wanted. I got the boat down to $27,900 bouncing back and forth between 3 dealers on the phone and email.
Old    hockeyruss            06-29-2003, 7:06 AM Reply   
The guys that just bought my 02 VLX got 5.5% for 10 years at a local credit union. That is awesome!!!! I hope the rates stay that low for a month when my new boat comes in. I had my 02 financed at the same institution for 6.5% for 10 years. Rates are dirt cheap now. Wayne, I am suprized you could do that with Moomba, Malibu is territorial and dealers cannot compete against each other (during current model year). I think most manufacturers are like this. But yes there is a big markup in boats and if you get in the right place at the right time you can get an awesome deal.

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