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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through July 24, 2009

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Old    Stephen Pliler (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-16-2009, 3:57 PM Reply   
So i just watched the learn wake video on the backroll. I think I'm about to start trying these next weekend (noob). So do you guys really think all those steps in the video are necessary. Like doing in in the flat. I guess the point is to avoid injury but I'm not sure if im going to try that. Thoughts everyone? Tips? Comments? I hear elbows at the side is important.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-16-2009, 4:03 PM Reply   
imo, way too much work and way too analytical for such a simple trick. if anything, work on your fundamentals as the hs broll is dependent on a good progressive cut.
Old    Stephen Pliler (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-16-2009, 4:08 PM Reply   
any time i ask anyone for a tip i get, "you need to edge all the way through the wake" or something along those lines. haha well i must not be doing it right still
Old    Michael F (mikef9844)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-16-2009, 6:14 PM Reply   
yea that video took the backroll into way too many unecessary steps. I guess you could try all that, but if you have a solid foundation you should at least just skip to the 1 wake backroll attempt.
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-16-2009, 6:35 PM Reply   
Thought: For an instructional video I'm guessing the point was to give more information than needed - since a lot of people that watch them might not all be at the same skill level.

Considering all the info that they offer at learnwake.com, don't you think it's kind of funny that people are criticizing them for having too much info (simple trick or not)?

All of the basics for the trick are discussed in the video, all you have to do is take from it what you need.

Would kind of defeat the purpose of the video/website if all they said was "this trick is easy, carry a progressive edge through the wake, stick the landing, ride away clean"
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-16-2009, 6:40 PM Reply   
i don't mean to criticize them. heck, they're trying to sell a product. if over analyzing can get them more members, cool.
Old    Loren (helix_rider)      Join Date: Mar 2003       07-16-2009, 6:41 PM Reply   
I'm with you Sinko. I always prefer too much info. If you feel like you can skip a step...go ahead and try it. But, if the trick isn't falling into place for you, and let's face it, >50% here don't know how to do a backroll, then you have a step that is perhaps easier, less intimidating, whatever...to try.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-16-2009, 6:43 PM Reply   
im working on a back roll to. and i saw the learn wake video after just trying to figure it out on my own with no instruction. and watching it helped make sense of the trick. i think all of the steps up to the 1 wake flip are really good to watch to show you the mechanics of it. but i dont think it would help to try them. and i have an I/o so jumping off one way and flipping is out of the qustion. so im stuck with W2W for now.
Old    Stephen Pliler (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-16-2009, 6:53 PM Reply   
Im not criticizing it, just commenting i guess. Yeah i can see how that shows you the mechanics. I was just wondering if any of you actually went about learning it like that or just skipped to w2w and went for it.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-16-2009, 6:55 PM Reply   
ive never heard of anyone trying to learn it like that. but it might help for some people
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-16-2009, 7:00 PM Reply   
i learned it the right way...w2w. i didn't have to learn it out in the flats, then learn it 1-wake, then learn it w2w.
Old    Stephen Pliler (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-16-2009, 7:33 PM Reply   
do most of you just go balls in w2w?
Old    Roddyrod (wakeslife)      Join Date: Jul 2005       07-16-2009, 7:41 PM Reply   
Wow Joe that's pretty impressive . But who are you to say that's the 'right' way? The point of the instructional was to provide a method of learning the trick that minimized hard impact crashes. The way they laid it out seems to be a good way to do just that.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-16-2009, 7:48 PM Reply   

quote:

i didn't have to learn it out in the flats, then learn it 1-wake, then learn it w2w.


Old    Adam Barry (adambarry)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-16-2009, 7:50 PM Reply   
I always thought when learning a new trick w2w was the easiest way just because it gives me time to think about whats going on. I've done one wake tantrums and still can't tell what im doing unless im going w2w hahah. one wake is just so fast it doesn't feel like enough time to think about your landing/handle position or any of that. Just my experience with it. and you guys are talking about backrolls in the flats? hahah im good off that
Old    Steve Williams (jsw)      Join Date: Apr 2009       07-16-2009, 8:29 PM Reply   
i think the amount of info was more for if you wanna be completely safe bout attempting one. Really, if you have a good healside jump, just go for it. the falls are some of the most tame i've ever had. plus i feel as though learning 1 wake flips kinda throws me off when trying to take them to 2 wakes.
Old    Dizzy Jenkins (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-16-2009, 9:21 PM Reply   
balls in...just grip it and rip it!
Old    derek durkin (derek23)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-17-2009, 12:15 PM Reply   
I have been attemptimh the backroll for wuite some time now. I don't get to ride too often. An I have landed it a couple of times. My biggest problem is over rotating and that is no mentioned whatsoever in the video. Pretty sure i just need to pick my head up once my rotation is complete?
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-17-2009, 12:26 PM Reply   
derek, let your handle out a little bit as you're coming the rest of the way around, this will slow you down a bit and help you spot it
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-17-2009, 7:39 PM Reply   
From the little time I have been riding (less than a year), I get the feeling that a large fraction, if not the majority of serious injuries occur because people just say GO BALLS IN with no muscle memory built up....and they take a hard fall because they are way out of position.

If you are over 40, or weight over 200#, or are nursing any sort of lingering injury, it makes sense to take this incremental approach. I am not sure about the one wake jumps...but I think doing a 3/4 air backroll in the flats to get the feel of loading up the line and releasing the board up and behind your is a very good idea. This edge release is quite a bit different than a rider may be used to if this is their 1st load and release invert.

I can say from experience that following some of Kyle drills work incredibly well. About two weeks ago...I was working on a basic TS W2W (landing TS...not doing a 180). After spending weeks trying to 'just do it' (and even using a short rope to get the wakes closer together) and failing to get it consistent...I slowed down...and spent about 15 minutes just doing Kyle's TS edge drill (where you drop a hand, grab your shorts, arch your back, etc).

I figured out where my position was wrong... dramatically improved my TS edge...and then went for it AFTER building up solid TS edge muscle memory. I was riding at my normal rope length (70 feet) and normal speed. I had never even dared to try that before...but because I had build up a solid feel for a good edge, I knew I could do it. I landed it W2W first try with solid height, in position,...but dropped the handle. Then I proceed to stick 4 of them in a row...even stretching it out a bit into the flats. All because I 'wasted' 15 minutes doing this strange looking edge drill instead of 'just going for it'.

To each his own...by I have found that building up muscle memory to learn tricks is the way to go for me.

(Message edited by kitewake on July 17, 2009)
Old    Ryan (bremsen)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-17-2009, 9:42 PM Reply   
When I first decided I wanted to try inverts I went with the "go balls in" and huck it method but was all over the place. It was very discouraging, and often painful. I don't have a better rider to watch/coach/push and really can't afford to get injured wakeboarding so I gave up for a while.

Then I saw the video last season and figured I'd give the steps a try. The edge drill and initial flats attempts really gave me a good grasp of the edge and rotation without the heavy hits. I didn't do many inside-outs but I did try every step at least a couple times. If nothing else, the steps gave me the confidence that I could do it. I still haven't ridden one out (had some close ones), but I honestly don't think I would have ever gotten this far w/o it.

To each his own, but this was the "right" way for me.
Old    Stephen Pliler (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-17-2009, 10:55 PM Reply   
i heard you should use these steps if your pregnant also
Old    East Coast Shredddd (eastcoastboardriders)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-18-2009, 8:30 AM Reply   
You have to cut in with a progressive edge and ride the wake all the way up. For a while I had trouble because I would just try to throw the roll as I was getting air. Or I would pop off the wake without riding it all the way up and barely get the rotation and usually get my nose stuck in the water. Then I realized you have to get all the way up the wake and then throw it and make sure u tuck. On spotting your landing, use the handle to your advantage and obviously its a less painful fall when you fall backwards then forwards. Get someone to film you so after you fall, you can see where your mistakes are. Donno if that helps any but good luck!
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-18-2009, 3:43 PM Reply   
Tried it for the 1st time today. I think the key is understanding the feel for loading and releasing the edge. You have to edge in a very tall position with little bend in the knees. Like Kyles says in the vid...when you practice the edge...if you are thrown forward and fall over the nose...or nearly do...then you are doing it right. After doing this practice drill...I tried an air back roll to revert...and made it about 3/4 my first and 2nd times.

Then we shortened the rope WAY up, and tried a mini wake to wake. Did not get close to landing it because:
1. I was not keeping the handle down and close to my hips.
2. I was not really spotting my landing with any focus.

I had no issue at all with rotation though...

I will try to post some pics of my 1st attempts later.
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-20-2009, 12:40 AM Reply   
Here are some pics of one of my 1st roll attempts off the wake. I did a few air backrolls in the flats (made it about 80% around), then shortened up the rope, and went for it mini W2W at about 18.5 mph. I was only taking a cut about 6-8' away from the wake...super super short approach.

Lots of pics...here is a Photobucket link...

http://s725.photobucket.com/albums/ww251/shooter7o7/

Just like with my wake jumps...the major problem is controlling the handle. When I keep a hold on it...I do not hold hold it close to my hips. On some attempts...I let it go clear above my head....

(Message edited by kitewake on July 20, 2009)
Old    Stephen Pliler (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-20-2009, 1:55 AM Reply   
nice pics dude, i cant wait to get out and try them. But it looks like i will have to wait a few more days because im still surfing in hawaii.....bummer
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-20-2009, 5:59 PM Reply   
The edge that gets you fast rotation is a lot different that a normal wake jump edge. You do NOT just do a normalwake jump....then throw a flip. It is totally different. The no wake air roll attempts teach you this.

The best way I can explain it is that insteat of standing tall at the wake..you are already pretty tall as you edge. You are tall...but leaning back. At the wake, you pivot this tall stance around the handle...with the board going up the wake and back a tad...and your body moving the other way.

Line tension is alot higher than a normal wake jump...and it builds much more quickly. Instead of building line tesnsion across say 10-12 feet...you may go from low line tensiontovery high line tension in only 5-6' of travel on the water. In a way, you overedge...and right before the board is going to blow out, you redirect all that energy up and away.

I had absolutely no issues with rotation, and this was a super super short approach....about 8-10 at the farthest from the wake. It was so short it was hard to get the board turned to face the wake.

Wake to wake at a normal speed & rope length, I would totally over rotate for sure....probably landing on my back. I need to develope air awareness and the ability to slow down the rotation before I go full speed and height...because I know that I will be up there and going fast....

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