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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through July 24, 2009

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Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-15-2009, 3:49 PM Reply   
I was reading the article of the SETx mid summer classic and was reading the winning run for the outlaw division. Very sik tricks (if landed) and not trying to knock anyone. But since when do you fall 3 times in one run and still win the contes??? Eric Deegan fell 3 times from what the article says.. If your reading this Eric Im not knocking you just wondering when fair is gunna be fair. If you look at Mitchs run (3rd place) he has just as legit tricks and only fell once. Am I missing something here? I understand Eric tried a 7 off the D-up, but from the article HE DIDNT LAND IT. If trying tricks wins you a contest whether you land them or not I should be pro. RANT
Old    MCXSTAR (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-15-2009, 4:17 PM Reply   
Something smells fishy.
Old    John Marshall (johnm_ttu)      Join Date: Jul 2005       07-15-2009, 4:54 PM Reply   
Looks like maybe the rails came into play on the placing. Mitch appears to have the weakest rail trick based purely on the technical merit.

We have no video to see so it would be hard to call the style and air categories.

I have only seen Mitch Bergsma ride in person. I am not familiar with the other two riders. Generally speaking Mitch rides big and clean.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-15-2009, 4:59 PM Reply   
Well, he won rails,they might have given him spins with the 7, tech is a toss up and he probably won style.

They call it style here. On the Pro tour they call it overall. I always wonder what the "overall" impression is if you are in and out of the water all the time during your pass? It just appears so messy when somebody falls 3 times.Kinda lacks any continuity.
Old    justinh            07-16-2009, 9:34 AM Reply   
I was there. I finished dead last in the finals. This is not a normal contest or a normal lake for that matter. It is at least 2-3 times as long as a normal course. The rules were 3 falls and falls don't count against you.

Deegan won--hands down.

Sorry that you felt the need to rant and I hope this put your mind at ease.
Old    jeremy hebert (jhebert)      Join Date: May 2007       07-16-2009, 10:18 AM Reply   
dave, i like the comment...Very sik tricks (if landed) are you kidding me ? do you think those trick lists were made up ?? I was there also (in the towboat actually) if you believe that, although deegan fell three times the tricks he landed were stuck cleanly and he went big....since you refer to mitch's run ill let you know what kept him to third place....2 of the tricks he landed he butt-checked out off pretty hard and his roll to blind and switch r 2 b where supposed to be a kgb and switch kgb but ended as handle pass r2b's
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       07-16-2009, 11:56 AM Reply   
How do you know they were supposed to be kgb? Do you have to write your tricks down before your ride?
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-16-2009, 5:34 PM Reply   
This is an interesting thread to me because contests and judging seem so subjective from tourney to tourney. On a local level I know that it is hard to keep some personal bias out of the judging.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-16-2009, 5:39 PM Reply   
"The rules were 3 falls and falls don't count against you"

They never do,in any competition.
Old    anthemwake (anthemwake)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-16-2009, 5:47 PM Reply   
I wonder about this a bunch...I know that most of the time falls don't officially count against you, but what do you guys think about this scenario: if 2 riders went out and did the exact same tricks with comparable style, but one fell three times in the process and one didn't, wouldn't the guy who stood up look that much more impressive to the judges? Shouldn't that guy deserve to win?
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2009, 6:49 PM Reply   
Jeremy- "DO I THINK THE TRICKS WERE MADE UP" brotha no I dont but when the article states precisely what tricks he fell on then yes IM ASSUMING HE FELL ON 3 OF SOME SIK TRICKS. Maybe you took my post wrong. Nowhere did I mention they were made up and even backed myself by saying that he had some very difficult tricks. My point to this thread was to find out how and for what reasons, AFTER FALLING 3 TIMES, he won. Thats it.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2009, 6:52 PM Reply   
anthemwake- thank you! kinda my point as well. And for the record this was not to discredit ANY RIDER in that tournament yet possibly address politics in the judging system. Jeremy if the winner was your buddy sorry if your upset, but there are riders out there that work there a$$ off and losing to someone that fell 3 times isnt fair IMO IMO IMO

(Message edited by knarbar on July 16, 2009)
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2009, 6:56 PM Reply   
Sorry for the countless posts but If Deegan won HANDS DOWN than congrats.. I mean that, but addressing the issue isnt wrong in any way. I wasnt there and isnt that the point of these boards.... TO FIND OUT THE STORY OR GET INFO THROUGH THE WAKE COMMUNITIY. Or is this website for some other reason. Would you like to comment on that Jeremy?
Old    justinh            07-17-2009, 6:57 AM Reply   
There was no "homecooking". He fell, but still managed to squeeze in all of the tricks and mix of tricks he needed to win. As far as I know, all riders were satisfied with the results is my point. There was no controversy at the tournament.

Dave, I agree with your concerns. I have found myself on the end of poor judging before, but I can promise that if you stay in the game long enough it all balances out. I used to get bent out of shape when I felt that I got boned until the first time I found myself in the finals and probably didn't deserve it.

As a rider, you have to understand that the judges decisions are the word of God. Even if you read all of the tricks online, watched the whole event from shore, sat in the boat or were attached at the end of the line. Every judge knows what he/she is looking for and no one else can say exactly what that is (subjective).

Never, ever question a judge. I did once. It didn't change anything and I looked like a total duche.
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-17-2009, 11:00 AM Reply   
I have been on the end of poor Judging SEVERAL times, and I've learned to just keep my mouth shut.

Last year at a double up contest, I threw a pretty big Indy Backside 360, but was beat by a kid who threw a large stalefish. I question it, and it was extremely akward and didn't change the outcome at all.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-17-2009, 10:38 PM Reply   
Fortunately Ive never been on the poor end of the judging even when I lost. Ive otherwise had equipment snap on me during contest which SUCKS. And honestly guys I hope you didnt take my post wrong, I just kinda saw the top 3 places and saw that first place fell 3 times so in my mind it threw up a red flag. But your right, contest are judged different from area to area and judge to judge. People are always looking for new scoring systems and to me thats awesome. I guess I just wanted to get the story on this one becuase I didnt understand. Now I do. This post has nothing to do with my contest riding or previous experiences. Every judge that ever judges me was fair and I can vouch for that.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-18-2009, 5:20 AM Reply   
"Never, ever question a judge. I did once. It didn't change anything and I looked like a total duche".

There must have been about 6 protests at the PWT in Tx. About 3 of those were upheld, with a couple of riders moving up 2 places.

The judges decisions are not the word of God, they also make mistakes.Everybody does. That's why you see erasers on the end of pencils.

If you are genuinely puzzled the head judge will take you through the whole thing and if there is a mistake they will correct it. They will not make you feel like a douche.

You are entitled to ask. Don't die wondering.
Old    Nick Yochman (lakemiltonwake08)      Join Date: Oct 2008       07-18-2009, 2:44 PM Reply   
It's okay to politely ask. But be very careful about how you go about it, you can end up looking like a big tool by being a whiner.
Also understand that judging is no easy task at all. If you've ever judged any competition you know that it's not an easy thing to do. Judges are almost always volunteers and give up their day to judge you. Mistakes can happen, but majority of the time they have a good reason and can back it up. If it has to do with missed points then it's possible to change scores, but if it's a call it like they see it,you probably won't change much.

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