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Old    beth            06-18-2003, 2:54 PM Reply   
I am looking for any/all advice on how to get over the mental block of being off balance when trying a backroll. I have been doing them on the tramp no problem. Behind the boat I just do ugly wake jumps. I UNDERSTAND the fundamentals of the trick, I just can't get it. HELP!!!
Old    Alpha_Beast (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-18-2003, 3:33 PM Reply   
Need video or pictures.
Old    beth            06-18-2003, 7:58 PM Reply   
No you don't. I KNOW how to do the trick. I know you don't believe me but I really do. I ride w/ alot of people who throw them like Cake and Pie. I have been riding about 4 years and have been read about how to do them for WAY longer than that. I KNOW how to do it, I just cant make myself get offbalance behind the boat. Nobody I ride with can help me get past the mental block. I NEED MENTAL HELP !!!!!

(Message edited by beth on June 18, 2003)
Old    beth            06-18-2003, 8:02 PM Reply   
Seriously, I do understand all the fundamentals, what I really need is some ideas about how to get over the mental block. Thought a tramp would help me get used to being upside down, but it isn't working so far. Anything is appreciated.

(Message edited by beth on June 18, 2003)
Old    Alpha_Beast (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-18-2003, 8:41 PM Reply   
O.K., you know how to do the trick, so either do it, or don't, but don't rely on anyone else to just type something in and magically make your fear go away. It doesn't work that way. You either want it bad enough that you are not afraid of trying it, or you don't. It's that simple.
Old    Randy Murray (wakeripper)      Join Date: Oct 2002       06-18-2003, 9:10 PM Reply   
wear a helmet when you go for it, trust me it helps calm your fears. You don't have to worry about it hurting so much.
Old    Greg Hodgin (eccpaint)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-18-2003, 9:16 PM Reply   
I agree. It just sounds like a fear of wiping out. Just let yourself go..... be free. It's just water, it's not gonna hurt anyway!

I can do a backroll, but I'm scared to do one on a trampoline. It's the ground and it WILL hurt!
Old    bassboy8855            06-18-2003, 10:05 PM Reply   
Great point Greg... I would much rather do a faceplant in water, then the concreat at the skate park.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-18-2003, 11:24 PM Reply   
beth - have you tried doing them with the boat going slower? or just one-wake (either inside out or just over the hs wake into the middle)?

i often wonder if some of these tricks aren't easier at slower speeds and a shorter rope (the way some folks learned them in the "old" days). as i've said before, even ricky gonzalez said there are some tricks he can't do now because they're riding faster and further behind the boat. for some reason if you're going slower and you're closer to the boat it can feel less likely that you'll get hurt - not that it's necessarily true, but it can seem that way.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-19-2003, 1:50 AM Reply   
i also think you are going faster with a longer rope due to the pendulum/arc effect, the further you are out from the center (rope tie point) the faster you will be going or at least it seams that way, if you know how to do it prepare yourself by saying this time out im going to try one, then warm up a little, then right before you cut in for the attempt say to your self this is it, when you get to the wake just throw it. I cant land a back roll or 360 yet but from the attempts the back roll crashes were way easier then the 360 slams
Old    av8roc            06-19-2003, 6:07 AM Reply   
There is nothing better than trying it for the first time and realizing....hey that didnt hurt at all. That combined with the people in the boat freaking out because you finally tried it is a great fealing. It IS mental so just do it.

Also dont think of it as getting off balance because you never really do. The backroll you edge all the way through the wake and essentially maintain that edge while inverted. If all works out you ride away in the exact same position with the same cut.
Old    samcdog            06-19-2003, 6:17 AM Reply   
Ride the raptor at Cedar point or a differnt roller coaster that "rolls" you over. Ride it over and over until the motion feels natural and than take that to the water.
Old    JR Richard (jrichard)      Join Date: Aug 2001       06-19-2003, 7:30 AM Reply   
Beth, where is it in the trick that your fear overcomes your knowledge? Do you "bail" on your way into the wake? Do you "bail" on the cut up the wake? Do you "bail" once you're in the air?
Old    Rhett (rhettb)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-19-2003, 7:47 AM Reply   
beth - if you can do a backflip on a tramp then you can do one on the water. I tried about 30 HS backrolls before I landed one, and not once did I get hurt. No one can tell you how to overcome your fear, you just have to try one and realize that it isn't that hard or scary - practive coming into the wake and looking up and over your front shoulder while visualizing the rotation, and then just do it. Try initiating the roll and letting go of the rope if that makes you feel better.
Old    backroll50            06-19-2003, 8:20 AM Reply   
I have never been hurt trying a backroll and I have been crashing them for 5+ years. I hurt myself more trying spins than a roll.

Just go in and get your feet above your head, that is a breakthrough.
Old    av8roc            06-19-2003, 8:41 AM Reply   
I wouldnt suggest letting go of the rope as that will slow your rotation down..even stop it maybe. Holding onto the rope allows you to get the board bac arond.
ALso the trick for me, as with any invert so far Ive tried is waiting for the pop. If you initiate the rotation to early you will spin very fast and thus making the landing very difficult. Wait for the pop then turn your head to your lead shoulder and try and spot the landing.
Also dobt be fooled you can get hurt but most likely not. I have found that spinning to early (fast rotation) hurts alot more when you crash then when you go big and rotate slow.
Anyone else agree?
Old    Greg Hodgin (eccpaint)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-19-2003, 9:20 AM Reply   
Totally agree with Sean. It will be hard to rotate slow in the beginning because you are gonna feel like you need to spin it fast to get around. If you are patient and wait for the pop off the wake, you will be able to rotate it slower. Much easier to land (and spot your landing) a slow rotation than a fast rotation.

I also agree with Bob. I have been hurt way more & worse learning spins than inverts.
Old    av8roc            06-19-2003, 9:27 AM Reply   
yeah Ive got a few inverts now yet still cand land a 360...Every time I try them I beat the crap outta myself. Its a mental thing now. The thing that bothers me is how fluid they can be when done right yet how spastic they can be when hucked.
Spins HURT!
Old    NAW (ripr)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-19-2003, 11:01 AM Reply   
Learning spins was brutal, for me anyways. I tried 3's all last summer, getting worked nonstop!! Than one day, I just landed one....best feeling in the world, now I usually land 3 outta 5.
I haven't done a backroll in 2 years because I wanted to spin so bad. Now that some spins are coming through, looks like inverts will be back in the picture.
The only advice I can offer, is DO NOT start the trick early. Like others have said, wait, wait, wait! The last roll I attempted, I left way too early. Landing on your head at 24 mph, hurts!!
Good Luck and Just Go For IT!!!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-19-2003, 11:39 AM Reply   
Catching an edge on a surface trick hurts more than most invert crashes I've taken. Just keep the rope tight so you spin fast and complete the rotation. Coming up short is what hurts. The trampoline is great training. I practiced doing flips with my board on, on the tramp.
Old    Brennan (afrodeziak)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-19-2003, 12:22 PM Reply   
Cut the k-rap :-) You need to stop, think about your abilities and know thats what is going to get you through it... If you can do it over and over again in your head thinking about where your board is going to be , how you think the pull from the rope should feel etc.... I think that's what helps me learn things, If I feel as though I already know how to do it in my head, then the next step is pretty much trying it, chances are, you'll get really close, but might not make it, from there, learning good technique for a particular trick helps....

But really just convince yourself you own the place and give er back, learn some yoga and get to be one with yourself so that you can say "yeah Im going to do this" rather than "Im scared, gotta get past my 'mental block'

Seems like you'd rather talk about how tough it is to do it rather than just doing it... forget that eh :-)

hope this helps in some way and in others you aren't offended, but this is what's helped for me on snow and water, just rely on the abilities you know you have....

Brennan
Old    stormrider            06-19-2003, 12:36 PM Reply   
Beth: I totally know where you're at. Threw my first two backroll attempts today. I've thought this trick through over and over and over. Last night I was totally distracted. Woke up in the middle of the night scared, then greatful that it wasn't 5:15 yet.

Then I got up this morning kinda pissed about being scared. I know this sounds wierd, but I finally felt like there were two people in my head vying with my conscious self for control- one was this scared naysayer. The second was the one with this dream of throwing and riding away from this trick. Finally I just, basically, and I know this sounds wierd, told the chicken that I'd be wearing a helmet and knee braces (I'm 42) that we'd slow the boat down to 21.5 so things would be as cool as possible and then I told the chicken to shut up, stay out of the picture and the dreamer was the only voice I heard and he was pumping me up.

How'd the attempts go? It all happened so fast that I'm not sure if I perfectly waited to pop the wake. In the air, it was fast and didn't see the water, just the sensation of being up there and then bamming the water. Got good height on nervous edging, but only rotated 3/4 of the way around before crashing out in the flats. I was glad I was wearing a helmet (Protec Shapiro with earflaps) as the water punches ya a bit, but not bad.

From the video, I know what I did wrong so me and the dreamer are now working on the adjustments and a new plan for increasing successes chances the next time-- and we are both pumped!

Oh, the chicken seems to realize he was overreacting and is acting kinda sheepish and embarassed right now.


Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-19-2003, 12:46 PM Reply   
that's awesome steven. good luck in your future attempts! i've been doing backrolls for almost a year now - im still probably only at 60-70% on them and i have yet to spot my landing...
Old    suzmar1997            06-19-2003, 12:48 PM Reply   
Beth~ like the others have said just get out there and throw it. I started off letting go of the handle and trying to roll (Makes for an easy crash, but needed the handle to complete the roll). I'm now to the point where all I have to do is stick the landing. Last time out I pretty much had it 5-6 times but either over rotated slightly or my board slid out on the landing, etc. I think it's just a matter of looking over my lead shoulder, keeping my eyes open, and spotting the landing. I'm also to the point where the crashes no longer hurt. I used to try to rotate to soon and begin the rotation as soon as I hit the wake (Which led to brutal falls and no pop), now I get the pop off the wake and then roll which has helped quite a bit. Like everyone else says, either start trying it or stop talking about it and try a different trick.Good luck.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-19-2003, 1:01 PM Reply   
Learn some yoga???
Old    beth            06-19-2003, 4:18 PM Reply   
Thanks for the advice. Im gonna get upside down soon, if I have to just throw something crazy to do it.Really it's not fear.Ive crashed hard enough times that Im not afraid to crash. I just cant make my body do the trick when Im behind the boat. Im going to practice on the tramp w/ my board, that may help. Visualization is a good idea. Im really not looking for magic, just any idea (even yoga!)
Old    Deven Whitaker (nautiboarder)      Join Date: Mar 2003       06-19-2003, 6:07 PM Reply   
Question-Everyone always tells me I go to earley. Including my wife on some nights. How can you judge when to throw the trick?
Beth, I went to Mike's Place at OWC a few years back. Thats the first time I ever even attempted a back roll. The one thing I remember the most, is he always told me I could slow my approch down by 50%, He would always say "do you know how much 50% is." The other thing he always said was to wait until your at the top of the wake before throwing the trick. Thats the biggist problem I have.
Old    beth            06-19-2003, 6:26 PM Reply   
I think tommorrow when we go out, we're going to slow the boat down some so I can work on good easy progression and the release off the wake. Cable park is probably another good way I could try to work on getting inverted. Thanks
Old    Matt Heil (matt_h)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-20-2003, 6:21 AM Reply   
Deven
I will never forget the first time I actually weighted long enough for the trick I had landed backrolls several times, but I couldnít get very much pop and it was never consistent. I had the bad habit of forcing the rotation. We were at a clinic with cobe and I was trying (throwing) backrolls and cobe kept telling me to wait for the pop. Finally on one of the attempts I waited and man did I over rotate that thing. But once I waited on it I got the feel of the board squirting out from underneath me. Do that once and the backroll will become cake and pie.

"How can you judge when to throw the trick?"
You really don't "throw" it; when it is done right you just shift your weight to your back foot at the peek of the wake. This causes the board to accelerate faster than you. And the board should squirt like a watermelon seed.

To slow down take your cut out where you think it should be and come in about 10' and think progressive.

If I could only apply this to scarecrows I would be a happy guy. Iím now in the bad habit of throwing them and not weighting on the pop. Thatís the beauty of wakeboarding there is always something to figure out.

You should see Beth try this she gets so pissed off it is not even funny. She will shift her weight and cause the board to start to slip but then something in her head clicks(stupid brain fart) and she leans back to the right (goofy foot) then she repeats the process. "Iím going to practice on the tramp w/ my board" NO she's NOT, that's a good way to break a "insert bone hereĒ. I think the best idea so far is to try it at 18mph with a short rope.

Thanks for the advice for Beth, sheís my wife so I canít tell her (OH I better shut up now)
Old    andrew (tantrum999)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-30-2003, 3:04 PM Reply   
Cable park wont help unless you know how to load the line correctly. If you can do then just do it behind the boat and dont waste anymore time thinking today is the day? promise you try one and you wont look back. dont let go unless absolutely necesary!
I had a block on backrolls because of raly cutting and getting hurt. I didnt have the helpful advice i have now. Why dont you try something else like a tantrum or a front side back roll instead?
Trust me once youve done the first you wont be able to sleep thinking about what your going to do next time!
good luck
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-30-2003, 3:09 PM Reply   
what's a front side back roll? do you mean a toe-side backroll?
Old    andrew (tantrum999)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-30-2003, 3:29 PM Reply   
Yes.

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