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Old    anthemwake (anthemwake)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-22-2009, 10:08 AM Reply   
I think I need some whey protein because my foot is really sore from all the names that michaelspsp has been dropping in this thread.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-22-2009, 11:02 AM Reply   
^^^ Best post in this thread.
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-22-2009, 1:44 PM Reply   
tricky topic.......all i can say is that when i was on it, it slowly over time made me sick. i had 7 years of stomach problems after that. it increased my bodyfat and acne....and cost me alot of money and gas .

in my opinion over the long run its not worth it. if you want to put your body in a temporary state and you really need all that protein, thats fine. but you really are overloading your digestive system....which can lead to problems. i feel much better today at 44 than i did in my late 20,s being always loaded up.
like was said before everyone is different and will react different. the best you can do is listen to your body.....if it doesn't feel right or makes you sic or gas or whatever its not for you. furthermore some times you dont react right away to something....but the effects are cummulative.....then when you stop the problems dont go away either but takes time for your system to return to normal.

in the end if you do imbark on that road you better know what your doing....otherwise have a balanced diet drink your water and you will never have any regrets.
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-22-2009, 7:07 PM Reply   
michael i agree to an extent, and im 50 and take in 60 grams of whey protein a day. no injuries, havent missed a day of work in at least 20+ years. not all whey proteins are good, the supplement industry is not regulated...the more something is advertised, the less likely it's a good product. paul check has said not to drink coffee. he said it was toxic to the body. i just read an article by him that says he has a double espresso every day w raw butter in it....??? raw milk is great, once its pasteurized, everything gets bound up. the calcium is useless as is the vitamin D. secondly, milk is breast milk of a cow....for calves. what other animals besides humans drink the breast milk of another animal in nature???
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-23-2009, 5:31 AM Reply   
I hear ya michael........in my particular case it has taken me the last 10 years to figure out what is good for me and what not, i dont think people understand how regular everyday foods and drinks affect you in the long run......then they run to the doctor and get put on meds and so the cycle begins. I can say without a doubt that every health issue i have ever had so far was self induced. for a couple i went to see the doctors....but do you think they ever asked me what i eat or drink or have i changed my diet....no tests tests and more tests and then meds.....when all you had to do is cut out the right food or drink(which is hard to figure out but can be done)....but again this is just my own unique experience....everyone elses will be different.
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-23-2009, 5:35 AM Reply   
michael are you substituting the 60 grams for real food protein or in addition? ....if its in addition why?
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-23-2009, 5:51 AM Reply   
.....i read some of the earlier posts and

- just because a product makes you look good ie low bodyfat /big muscles doesn't mean your "healthy"
- I was once a lot stronger than I am today, but today my body is healthier and more resistant to injury etc than it was when i was pounding the weights (although i did that to excess like most young people)today i lift in moderation 1-2 times a week and only lighter weights when wakeboarding.


-michael the lucky charms example isnt fair....that should be substituted with a balanced diet.....then i question the outcome

-when you get right down to it .....nothing beats real food, as you said yourself michael you eat protein because you dont have time....its a quick modern solution. However again nothing is better than real food...and even in your circles you must know that. ultimately one can say protein powder is not as healthy as real food. Can protein powder be consumed and even work?....of course.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-23-2009, 6:53 AM Reply   
Sounds like a lot of hub-bub over nothing. If you body responds to protein eat protein, if it likes carbs, eat carbs... Low calorie, balanced diet, with a little shying away from sugar and lots of water works for me ;)

Not to brag, but I just keep the calorie content down and don't eat candy or drink softdrinks. This was taken yesterday:
Upload

I will say though, through my experience I have found that no diet in the world can re-grow hair :-)
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-23-2009, 6:57 AM Reply   
I am sure that it doesn't hurt that you are 25 years old. Things change a little when you hit 40.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-23-2009, 7:12 AM Reply   
Don't get me wrong, I work hard in the gym and on the water... and 25 is still young... All I'm saying is paying attention to your diet is important, but don't obsess over the number of protein or carb grams you take in everyday. Some people go WAY overboard on this nutrition stuff.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-23-2009, 7:52 AM Reply   
Paul Chek believes in what he calls the 80/20 rule....meaning you should be good to your body 80% of the time. Everyone has there bad habits. Some drink, some smoke dope, some drink caffeine, or whatever. He believes in being clean and all natural 80% of the time.

In the lecture I watched yesterday he didn't admit to drinking coffee, I don't doubt that he does, but he did talk about the adverse affects of drinking coffee too late in the day and just too much coffee in general.

His problem with whey is that it's not a whole food. It's a product of pasteurized milk which started from corn fed, sick, antibiotic and steroid injected cows. It starts out bad from the get go, and then gets stripped of it nutrients, and processed. This is why I asked why you don't believe in milk, but you do believe in whey.

I wish I had time to share more of the lecture. My mouth was hanging open in amazement.

How many people drink gatorade? He has an interesting outlook on this too.

"Some people go WAY overboard on this nutrition stuff."

Some people have to. Not everyone can metabolize food like Luker!
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-23-2009, 8:11 AM Reply   
Luker, great job on stayin in shape, but I'm with Gene on this one.

I give the guys under 30 a "golf clap" for stayin in good shape. The guys over 40 who can still hang with guys half their age....very impressive, and takes alot of dedication.

The older I get the more important diet becomes in the way I look and feel.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-23-2009, 8:21 AM Reply   
I wrestled in high school at 140 and ballooned up to 205 from beer and barBQ in college. I stayed between 190 and 200 for almost 4 years. My body responds very poorly to excessive carbs. I started to focus on getting back in shape in February of this year and have lost around 40lbs to date. I typically try to limit myself to around 2,000-2,800 calories a day and keep away from sugar as much as possible. I don't research the stuff, just flip over a label or two before you eat something and ask yourself if you should be eating it... and mainly, get off the couch and go do something! I'm 9 weeks post-op from ACL reconstruction and have been "crutching" around my gym doing upper body workouts every morning since surgery. It's about motivation, action and self control... not research and discussion.

-End Tony Robbins rant ;)
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-23-2009, 5:18 PM Reply   
google paul chek espresso
Paul: A mix of organic vegetables and three organic eggs. I had two nice organic espressos with biodynamic butter in them though! That’s my little “love on the side” so-to-speak. I love organic espresso and have an amazing Elektra espresso machine hand-built with a matching hand-built grinder I purchased in Italy. I call my espressos “sex in a cup!”

http://4pack.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/ideal-shape-profile-paul-chek-is-a-natural/
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-23-2009, 5:21 PM Reply   
ok, i was finishing my workout at the gym and i see dr sanjay gupta on cnn. he is talking about increasing muscle mass and how beneficial it is. then he said, " you will need to have the proper nutrients for this increased muscle mass." and i'm like oh, no, here comes the carb talk. WRONG! Dr Sanjay Gupta says," you need to INCREASE YOUR PROTEIN INTAKE." whoo hoo. finally after all these yeasr mainstream is finally understanding the RESEARCH!
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-23-2009, 5:31 PM Reply   
ok, i made a mistake , i take 2 shakes a day with 60 grams protein each. 120 total. now, today i was on the road, had to go to NYC to get some building plans for my new gym and meet the builder at the building department in NJ. after i went to the Vitamin Shoppe and picked up this little container of 40 grams of protein in a premade test tube - like a premade protein drink but only a few ounces. I have been passing gas about 3 hours after and still am. thats why i normally always use a known protein source...so, to clear things up. 1)Whey protein is not necessary. i would love to eat 6 steaks a day but have no time to do that. 2) if you like egg protein, or i have used a combo of egg, whey, beef plasma, etc. fine. 3) the point of whey is it absorbed the fastest, so i have before and after workouts. at night, a combo would be better. but i eat food then. 4) the bottom line for longevity is increase your protein, even dr gupta says so
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-23-2009, 6:36 PM Reply   
I can't believe this thread is still going. I can't imagine why someone would say don't use Whey as if there is something wrong with it. If you wanna use it for getting big or ripped or staving off catabolism as you age. If you wanna keep up a good immune system and help resist injury as well as recover from injury it's gonna help. If you can find a study that says its bad for you please do share. Of course proponents will find you 10 to 1 that it's good. When a supplement is as popular as this it falls under intense scrutiny and is tested and tested and tested, double blind, triple blind, peer reviewed and it's come up positive time and again. Do you have to have it? NO but I'll take 40g's of Whey over 40g's of chicken breast all day.
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-23-2009, 6:41 PM Reply   
come on Hate, i have a bet i can keep this thread going till christmas. jeez....LOL
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-23-2009, 9:04 PM Reply   
I'm just waiting for the "to much protein will blow out your kidneys BS"

(Message edited by hate&pain on July 23, 2009)
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-24-2009, 5:37 AM Reply   
there ya go!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Protein-Poisoning-Symptoms&id=181088
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-24-2009, 5:55 AM Reply   
who is that guy?
this guy went to harvard university...

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/protein/protein-nutrition-myth.htm
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-24-2009, 6:00 AM Reply   
For the record I'm not doubting that SOME people need a lot of protein. Or that we need it to build and maintain muscle mass. It's Whey protein supplements that I'm questioning. And the generalization that ALL people, of different cultures and lifestyles need tons of protein in their diet.

A lot of those studies that show positive results are funded by supplement companies. This goes back to Michaels Chek reference about most of these doctors being on someones payroll.

Chek sheds a little light on what those artificial flavors and colors mean also....Carcinogens! But the FDA doesn't require them to list that. "artificial flavors" is all they require. So I'll take the chicken breasts. They are a whole food.
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-24-2009, 6:21 AM Reply   
Had a workout buddy of mine , in college, eating about 260-300 grams protien a day. 60-70% was from supplementaion ( whey mostly). We wer in a lecture clas ( approx 200 people) . He let one slip out, lol. Teacher cancelled class and called maint. He thought there was a dead animal in the a/c system.

I still laugh about that 14 years alter, lol!
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-24-2009, 6:38 AM Reply   
ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Now that sh*t is just funny!! I actually laughed out loud because I have similar stories. lol
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-24-2009, 9:08 AM Reply   
oh please, bodybuilders take in 500 to 600 grams (total) a day...
but again i had a problem yesterday when i took some from an unknown source. so choose wisely.
but again , it's usually carbs added to the protein that cause that problem.
J-rod, i use organic whey, unflavored, unsweetened from new zealand. $$$
before that i would use a custom blend from the protein factory. again, no sweetner or flavoring
(i add a packet of stevia sometimes)
and ive eaten so much chicken in my life it's hard for me to look at chicken....
Old    looser (charman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-24-2009, 9:09 AM Reply   
this seems like as good a place as any to ask this...

stretch marks. how do i keep em away. i've been working out pretty hard for about 6 months now and i'm getting them in my groin and under my arms now. pretty nasty looking if i let them go for a while i think. solutions?
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-24-2009, 9:12 AM Reply   
If someone can figure out how to get rid of stretch marks.. I'd love to hear it. Mothers all over the place would do cartwheels.
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-24-2009, 9:28 AM Reply   
http://www.frequencyspecific.com/

this will get rid of the color of the marks to match the skin, it will not put back the skin but it is very much less noticeable.

it will get rid of keloidal scars too, ive used it on women w C-sections w great success
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-24-2009, 9:46 AM Reply   
Awesome. I didn't even know it existed.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-24-2009, 9:48 AM Reply   
BTW...our studio just became a drop site for a farm that provides organic, all natural grass fed beef. Got my first order of filets and rib eyes coming next week. yum...
Old    looser (charman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-24-2009, 10:43 AM Reply   
i know you can't get rid of them... i am trying to prevent more of them.

good stuff mich
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       07-24-2009, 11:17 AM Reply   
Looks like Ive been way ahead of the curve for decades!!


Got Milk? Try Chocolate After Your Workout

Downing chocolate milk after a tough workout can help replenish exhausted muscles and significantly aid exercise recovery, new research shows.

By Kelly L. Phillips
Post-Workout Drinks

When it's time to choose a liquid chug after a long, tough workout, there's a slew of options out there. Water? Gatorade, POWERade, or All Sport? Endurox R4? Physiologist Joel Stager, director of the Human Performance laboratory at Indiana University, has even one more potential workout recovery drink to add to the list: chocolate milk. His latest study, published in this month's International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism, names this kids' favorite an optimal post-exercise recovery aid.
Before your stomach recoils, take a look at chocolate milk's ingredient list. For a high-endurance athlete, Stager's team sees it as a catch-all workout recovery drink. Compared to plain milk, water, or most sports drinks, it has double the carbohydrate and protein content, perfect for replenishing tired muscles. Its high water content replaces fluids lost as sweat, preventing dehydration. Plus it packs a nutritional bonus of calcium, and includes just a little sodium and sugar -- additives that help recovering athletes retain water and regain energy. Drinking plain water after exercise replaces sweat losses -- and that's it. "Chocolate milk provides carbohydrate replenishment to your muscles -- something they can metabolize," said Jason Karp, MS, another researcher for this study. "There's nothing to metabolize in water." Stager's assessment of chocolate milk is even simpler. "It's water plus a whole lot more," he said.

The Case for Carbs

Ready to switch your bottled water for chocolate milk? Assess your workout level first. Downing a post-workout beverage chock-full of carbohydrates isn't just for the weekend tennis player, said Stager -- and that's key. A drink like chocolate milk is most useful to a cyclist, swimmer, or long-distance runner. These sports stress high endurance levels and constant, sustained movement. Competing athletes need high levels of calories, carbs, and protein to sustain that level of performance. Stager tested out chocolate milk's performance as a workout recovery drink on nine cyclists. In his lab, each athlete biked until exhaustion, and then rested for four hours. During this break, each consumed low-fat chocolate milk, Gatorade, or the high-carbohydrate sports drink Endurox R4. Afterward, they cycled to exhaustion again. The results were positive. His research team concluded that the athletes who consumed chocolate milk performed just as well or better as those who drank the other beverages. The high carb and protein content in milk make it an incredibly effective recovery drink, Stager said -- even though it's never been marketed as one.

Chocolate Milk: The New Sports Drink?

Study Shows Chocolate Milk May Help Athletic Performance

By Richard Sine
WebMD Health News

Feb. 24, 2006 -- During a 2004 Summer Olympics awash in controversies over steroids and supplements, one sportswriter wryly noticed that top American swimmer Michael Phelps was playing it safe -- he preferred to drink Carnation Instant Breakfast between races. Now it appears that the six-time gold medalist may have been onto something. A new study shows that plain old chocolate milk may be as good -- or better -- than sports drinks like Gatorade at helping athletes recover from strenuous exercise. The study, published in the International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism, was small in scale; it was partially funded by the dairy industry. But dietitians say the study should help to counter the notion that high-tech, expensive supplements are better than whole foods when it comes to athletic performance. They also note that milk contains key nutrients, such as calcium and vitamin D, in quantities that sports drinks can't match. "[Milk] is a sports drink 'plus,'" Keith Ayoob, EdD, a registered dietitian and associate professor of pediatrics at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, tells WebMD. "It will supply you with things you need whether or not you're working out."
The study builds on findings that intense endurance exercise reduces the muscles' supply of stored glucose, or glycogen, a key source of fuel for exercise. To maximize glycogen replacement, the American College of Sports Medicine and the American Dietetic Association recommend taking in a serving of carbohydrates within 30 minutes after a long and vigorous workout.

Milk vs. Sports Drinks

Common sports drinks such as Gatorade supply those carbs, as well as fluids and electrolytes lost through sweat. However, more recent research suggests that adding protein to the mix may further hasten recovery. Hence the new wave of drinks such as Endurox R4 that include protein as well as higher doses of carbs.
In the study, nine male cyclists rode until their muscles were depleted of energy, then rested four hours and biked again until exhaustion. During the rest period, the cyclists drank low-fat chocolate milk, Gatorade, or Endurox R4. During a second round of exercise, the cyclists who drank the chocolate milk were able to bike about 50% longer than those who drank Endurox, and about as long as those who drank the Gatorade.
The findings suggest that chocolate milk has an optimal ratio of carbohydrates to protein to help refuel tired muscles, researcher Joel M. Stager, PhD, Indiana University kinesiology professor, tells WebMD.
But the most puzzling result of the study, experts say, was why Endurox -- which has the same carb-to-protein ratio as the chocolate milk -- fared so poorly. Researcher Jeanne D. Johnston, MA, tells WebMD it may have to do with the different composition of the sugars in the milk. Another theory is that the sugars in the milk may be better absorbed in the gut than those in the Endurox.
Edward F. Coyle, PhD, a researcher on exercise and hydration at the University of Texas, tells WebMD the trial would have been stronger if the researchers had also tested the effect of flavored water or another dummy (placebo) drink.
The study was partly funded by the Dairy and Nutrition Council, an industry group. Coyle says that the study's reliance on industry funding is not unusual in the world of sports research, as federal funding for such research is hard to come by.

A Cheaper Alternative?

While rapid nutrient replacement may not be important for casual exercisers, it can make a big difference in performance for competitive athletes who work out vigorously once or twice a day, says Roberta Anding, a sports dietitian and spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association.
Anding has long recommended chocolate milk for young athletes who come to her practice at Texas Children's Hospital in Houston. For children and teenagers from lower-income families, it doesn't make sense to spend serious money on sports drinks when they can get milk as part of a subsidized lunch program, she tells WebMD. The only advantage of sports drinks, she notes, is that they never spoil. Ayoob estimates that more than two-thirds of teenagers should be drinking more milk anyway because they don't get enough calcium in their diets. He also recommends milk for its vitamin D and potassium content. "For me, this is a no-brainer," he says.
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-25-2009, 3:28 PM Reply   
sorry, i dont know any pro, multi million dollar earning athletes, or even top Olympic athletes doing this...nor do my colleagues.
the ADA is out of their minds, always has been, always will be. the dairy council is extemely biased. and i have 2 doctors who speak around the world staying with me this weekend. one who got up on his 1st pull ever, 3 years ago....and they disagree too. and again, stu mittleman ran 1000 miles in 10 days on low carbs. and explains why runners have it backwards in his book. the truth is out there in empirical evidence. thats not to say we dont give high school kids carbs w protein after workouts, we do unless they need to lose weight

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