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Old    Shane Miller (hematoma)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-17-2009, 1:13 PM Reply   
I'm posting under my hubbies name but need some suggestions. My daughter is 11 and has been wakeboarding for 3 years now. She can do w2w,butters,butters on the lip,ollies,grabs,and even 180's. Here's the problem.......... she can do the ollie 180, butter 180, and even the insideout180, landed everytime except the w2w 180. She kept falling from over rotating. Now, she is so teriffied to do any other trick that she knows. She just stands behind the boat and if we tell her to do something, anything, she just sits behind the boat and cries. She did all her 180's while practicing and then we had some friends out on the boat with us and she looked like a superstar. The next day it was a total shut down!!! She can do it and she knows that she can do it but is terified of falling now. This is so frustrating!!!!! Another thing.... my hubbie was in a competion this past weekend and we weren't going to put Jessica in it b/c we were afraid she'd freeze up. Just before the comp started he asked her if she wanted to ride and she said yes!!! We rushed to the registration table got her signed up, she didn't have her board or anything so our friends let her borrow their sons board. She had never used his board, never ridin behind this boat and rode like a champ!!!She got 4th place and was the only child that placed out of 10 females. She was so happy and we thought thats what she needed to get over her hump. She wanted to learn the Fashion Air the next day, so my hubbie told her to try the backscratcher instead. All night thats all we heard about. Next day on the boat she was the first rider in the water and guess what she did.....stood behind the boat and eventually crying.We explained to her that it was her idea to try the new trick and she didn't have to do it, to just do what she knew and have fun.Still nothing she still wouldn't do anything just made excuses...the wind was too loud in her ears, she needed music, the water was too rough. We pulled her for along time thinking she could work thru it because she had done so good the day before(she didn't try any 180's) but ended up pulling her out of the water. This is the most frustrating thing that I'v had to go thru with her. I ask her if she wants to wakeboard and tell her if she doesn't that's okay and she says she wants to. But, IF I let her quit I"m afraid she'll quit everything that is a challenge to her. I tell her she needs to face her fears and she'll feel better(remember she's already done them over and over)this has been going on for about 3 mths now. We bought a 84 Supra last year and my hubbie has made it look BAD A**, it has a good wake and we even moved on the river so she could practice more than just the weekends. She has the best equipment and the cutest bathingsuit and board shorts.(anything to boost her confidence) I know there is a fine line between encouragement and pushing your child but she has talent and I don't want her to throw it away. With all the resources at her fingertips, she could go somewhere in this sport if she could get over this HUMP! Please throw me some ideas of how to help her!!!
Old    Alice W (aliwake)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-17-2009, 4:16 PM Reply   
that does sound really frustrating... it doesn't sound like there's anything you can do - she'll just have to toughen up and figure it out herself!!
maybe you could try changing tack. ban her from riding for 2 weeks - maybe she'll be so keen to ride by the end of it that she'll stop playing games?
Old    Meghan (megsswm)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-17-2009, 4:40 PM Reply   
+1 for Alice's suggestion...also maybe she kind of is liking the attention and all the encouragement when she doesn't do anything...maybe next time you are out on the boat just don't say anything ..i she wants to ride, great...if she attempts anything on her set...even better...maybe not saying anything until she tries her tricks again will show her what kind of encouragement she will get ...reminds me of teaching my youngest sister to snowboard years ago...the only way to get her motivated and going was to just ignore the crying and let her figure it out on her own...
Good luck...i can understand why you are soo frustrated she sounds like a little ripper who just needs to work through it.
Old    Andrea Ensminger (parkgirl)      Join Date: Nov 2001       08-17-2009, 5:00 PM Reply   
She is over-rotating b/c she is used to pulling the 180 right off the wake i.e about a foot or two of air for shelf, ollie and butter 180's. Taking it wake to wake requires waiting to pull the handle until the last second. Falling sucks but unfortunately in this sport it is the only way to learn. I am not a parent so I can't give you advice there on how to motivate her w/out being a pushy parent but I can say from my own experiences with frustration that the only way to get past a rut is to take an extended break or try something completely new.

Does she grab her wake to wake jumps? Does she jump toeside? How about getting up switch and riding around or learning switch hs 180's into the middle or something. Trying new things and accomplishing them (no matter how small they seem) can sometimes give you a boost in confidence that gets you back in the game.

Good Luck!
Old    Michele (luv2w8k)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-17-2009, 5:19 PM Reply   
When I was in the 5th grade my music instructor told her that I wasnt doing well. She threatened to take my flute away and pull me out of the class if I didnt start practicing. From that day on I practiced religiously then got good and started winning competitions regularly and was accepted into a great music program by the 8th grade. I am not a parent but I do know we all want what we can't have. I say whatever behaivor she exibits that is distasteful then threaten to take it away. And if she tests you let everyone else ride in the boat accept her. Love hurts sometimes.

As far as her wake to wake 180's when I teach people First and formost I tell them to pull the handle to their trailing hip. Second make sure to spot the landing spot not the board. As far as over-rotating I generally tell people to let go of their leading hand before landing this usually corrects over-rotation.
Old    Shane Miller (hematoma)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-17-2009, 7:18 PM Reply   
Alice-
We tried that...she has been grounded all summer!! No fingernail polish,no staying over @ friends, very limited TV, no new anything!!You make a continous effort and you can have it back! DIDN'T WORK

Meghan
My husband keeps saying she's doing it for the attention. We have ignored her and she rode like she had no trouble at all until the next time out on the boat.

Andrea.E.
Thank you for the tips. I told her we could even slow the boat down and she could "relearn" what she's already done.
Answers to your questions:
Yes she does grabs w2w.
She can jump TS but only to the middle.(which we told her she could work on that instead of 180s but didn't seem to help.)
She hasn't gotten up switch so I'll bring that up to her.She can ride switch and was pretty comfy doing it.

Michele: We bought her a new setup and life vest early June thinking this would excite her to ride. NOPE, the board felt weird and she stood behind the boat and cried. We told her she couldn't have the board or vest and put her back in her old sunfaded setup and vest. I started riding the board and love it. Thought she might not like me riding her board and even started telling her it was mine, didn't bother her!!!

My son is 9, has been riding for almost 2 months and is jumping w2w, so we have been buying him snow cones if he does a good job. She's jealous that he gets the snow cones but still won't do it. She said one day that she hated those orange life vests that has the wraparound buckles, so last week when I was at my WITS-END I went to Wal-Mart and bought one for her. She wore that thing 2 days, could only take it off to take a bath and she only had 5 minutes to take a shower. She still had to go outside to play just like every other day,you think that helped change her mind??!!!!!! NNNOOOOOOOOOO We give her every opportunity to wakeboard and reverse the position that she has put herself into, we are on the water 3-4 times a week. Nothing seems to work. I swear that girl is giving me pre-age wrinkles!!!

Thanks for all the posts trying to help me!!
Old    Meghan (megsswm)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-17-2009, 8:19 PM Reply   
Just a thought but maybe she feels a lot of pressure to not mess it up and that is overwhelming...maybe letting her just ride in the boat and let her suggest getting a turn , everything...the mind of a "pre-teen" girl is a mystery I work with them every single day and it seems like each time I have do the opposite of what I did the day before..
I guess my suggestion is think logically , then do the opposite....=)....don't worry she will get there..it just might take time...or getting one of her friends to show her what they can do behind the boat...
Hand in there, she is lucky to have such encouraging and supportive parents!
Old    SoCal MOB (rnopr8)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-17-2009, 9:48 PM Reply   
Ok...here's my .02....I have a son age 13...been riding since he was 4. I have learned that just because my passion is riding, doesn't mean his is. I have accepted this. I compete at Nationals and Worlds but he won't get out there and do anything anymore...and that is ok!! So when he does go out and ride now...I just encourage him at the level he is at and don't expect anything more than what he gives me. But I do notice that he will give more to a coach without me around than when I am in the boat. He rode with Shaun Murray and loved it...gave 500% for him. She may not be what you think, hope, or expect her to be. Just love her and accept her for all the positive things she is and contributes to your family! She is a unique and awesome little girl...love her for that and when she wants to ride, take her and let her do what ever she wants...no pressure. And tell her how great she is just the way she is!!!!
Old    krit (krit)      Join Date: Feb 2005       08-18-2009, 7:36 AM Reply   
You seem a bit obsessed about making her get better, what if that isn't her passion? I think punishing her by making her wear an orange vest for 2 days is just going to make the situation worse. I know if someone punished me for not trying something new or even not wanting to wakeboard one day it would take the fun out of it for me.
Old    Shane Miller (hematoma)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-18-2009, 8:57 AM Reply   
Hubbie here, Krit my little girl has told us she has a mental block with the 180's nothing more nothing less. She gets out of the water jazzed when she rides. Her main problem is she gets in the water and obsesses about catching an edge doing 180's. That leads to her freaking out and not wanting to do the tricks she has on lock. We dont ask her to do the 180's anymore but yet she still lets it ruin her session.

Socal, I dont think its a matter of my passion or hers its she doesnt like slapping the water face first. That eats at her when she's out riding. She has said she wants to learn new tricks but then she thinks about catching an edge. If we can find a way to get her over the fear of falling she would be golden.
Old    Kat Laird (wakekat15)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-18-2009, 10:44 AM Reply   
Sounds like she just needs a day with a coach to help her work through those concerns. I knocked myself out last year doing a HS180 and haven't done one since. I'm riding with a coach this weekend & plan to work on HS180's!
Old    wakejjboard12            08-18-2009, 11:37 AM Reply   
I know if my parents were acting like you guys I wouldn't wanna ride at all. Just chill and let her do what she wants. If she only wants to ride behind the boat then let her. Making her wear those ugly orange things for 2 days seems RIDICULOUS. If she wants to progress and you guys have given her every oppurtunity which it sounds like you have she will. Just be patient.
Old    Tobin (tobs2)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-18-2009, 1:06 PM Reply   
Hey there not sure if my two cents will help at all....but first of all great job doing what she is doing at that age, anyhow what I did that helped me out alot on 180's is exactly like she is kinda of doing now, inside out 180's, I practiced them cutting out left and right ....toeside and heelside till I was very secure with the landings and rotation......like everyone here is saying it is different timing for a heelside 180 then toeside 180......toeside 180's were much easier to learn wake to wake since you land where you can cut on heelside edge.....but for toeside you take them much earlier off wake and the rotation is very easy since you are already basically kinda corked up and really all you have to do is if you ride regular let go of your front hand and the boat pull will rotate you around....she may try this at slower speeds and shorten up the rope length to 60 ft or so so the distance to clear is very small at first then maybe take it out longer....or just do one wake ones at first.......

For heelside I almost do not even think about doing a 180 just a big heelside jump then at the highest point of jump or even on way down I rotate my hips to do the 180.....with heelside 180's the biggest problem for me was under rotating or way over rotating almost to a 360......under is the most common I think.....like people here were saying you do not want to take heelside 180's off the wake or you will always get your timing wrong.....you have to commit to this trick and commit to landing and riding away on toeside edge or it will never be consistent.....I even exagerate the trick if I take it bigger and kinda break at the waist towards toeside of board to force me into riding on toeside edge when landing......just really try to jump first, maybe practice a few wake to wake jumps first to get good timing....then jump, make sure the board has released off the wake you are jumping then use hips to start rotation.....you can even if you are holding on with both hands through whole trick just move handle to lead hip to start the rotation.........you may before any of this get them relaxed at practicing carving on the toeside edge that is used when landing the heelside 180..... Hope that makes sense and helps.... Tobin
Old    Taylor M (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-18-2009, 9:44 PM Reply   
I only read some of the post but I am sure she is more scared of the landing than the 180. I would guess she is scared of the landing switch. I broke my leg when I was 6 and had the same problem after. my coach made me ride switch forever & later ask me what if I knew what I was working on? I said riding switch he said no you are working on your landing on 180s. if she wants to email me i will talk to her and try to help
Taylor
Old    Kim Possible (polhamus)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-18-2009, 10:35 PM Reply   
Taylor good for you! that is a sweet idea! catching an edge sucks. She probably needs to get more comfortable switch. It's good that she is still even putting a board on her feet. it sounds like your comparing son to daughter and that would hurt my feelings if it were me. If he gets snow cones and rewards and she doesn't.
Old    Shane Miller (hematoma)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-19-2009, 4:10 PM Reply   
Kim, no I'm not comparing my kids. I was only trying to show her that if you try then you get rewarded. She is a way better rider than he is.
Taylor, Thanks I'll ask her if she wants to do that.
It seems that some of you think that we are pushy parents and are only in it to torture our children. That is farthest from the truth. My daughter is great at this sport and has loved it since the first day. She has said herself that on land she's prepared and on the water she talks herself out of it. I've only been trying to help her get over this hump by exploring every option.
One other thing that came to mind, she is LEFTHANDED. Would that make a difference?
Old    Bevan (stxr_racer)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-19-2009, 4:20 PM Reply   
socal M.O.B..you nailed it,well said!
Old    Kim Possible (polhamus)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-19-2009, 8:08 PM Reply   
I don't have kids yet, but my friend has two sons and none of them like wakeboarding anymore. they were scared after hard crashes . But just be glad that they are healthy, and enjoy being on the boat. Shoot at least your daughter can wakeboard! It's a good family time. Competitions don't matter, just make sure she has FUN!! ok I am done with this thread, I don't want to offend anyone, and Just be GRATEFUL and know that you are blessed
Old    SoCal MOB (rnopr8)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-19-2009, 8:39 PM Reply   
Thanks Bevan...I needed that!

Shane, none of us on here want to offend you yet you seem to take all our comments defensively. Therefore, the following is not to offend you, only offer my perspective.

I am left handed and I compete on the National and World level. My son is left handed and rides when he feels like it....maybe twice a year. I don't make him ride, yet thank him for sharing the day on the water with me when he does. It sucks to catch an edge, or break a foot like I did last year, or pull an ab like I did last week while training for worlds. All these injuries were from catching an edge. It is not fun to get hurt. That is a basic human need.....to live without getting hurt! Any action sport is going to cause some degree of pain. She is only 11 years old!!!! Just let her be a little girl having fun in life. She will work through it in her own time and way and when she is ready you will know. And she may never get over the fear of catching an edge and falling. Just don't humiliate her by making her wear an orange vest or rewarding her brother but not her...wow. Respect your children and they will respect you.

Kim...I am done too.
Old    Lizrd (lizrd)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-20-2009, 7:26 AM Reply   
I just opened this thread. I will preface my comment by letting you know that while I am not a parent I hold several advanced degrees in education and educational psychology.

Your daughter is 11. She needs positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement. You are going to have far deeper issues to handle if you continue to punish her and humiliate her in her pre-pubescent years. Intellectual, social, and emotional growth & health comes from focusing on abilities rather than on areas of weakness. I would encourage you to seek the support of qualified parenting professionals so that you can grow as a parent to better support and assist your daughter in the maturation process. Your child's pediatrician might be a good resource for you. We often turn to methods and techniques that our parents used on us when current research does not support them. I can tell by your post that you have good intentions and you are searching for a solution to a perplexing problem. I wish you the best in creating a team of support that can help you, your husband, and your daughter to manage the upcoming years with appropriate techniques and sensitivity.
Old    Taylor M (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-22-2009, 9:08 PM Reply   
This is Scott Taylor's dad. A few things of insight since I am a parent. Taylor has been in many ruts in her wakeboarding career. Just this past June of 09 we left florida and she had a 360 and 6 inverts. We came home and in a matter of a week she "lost" EVERYTHING except one invert. She could NOT land anything to save her life. As a parent this is frustrating to watch. REMEMBER they are kids and will have ups and downs some longer than others. Mike Ferraro told me a long time ago a few things that has stuck with me still to this day and EVERYONE has to think about this. The first was these kids are getting BETTER EVEN IF THEY DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BUT STAND BEHIND THE BOAT!!!!! You can teach spins & flips later it's not important now. Yes that sounds dumb coming from me when I just said my daughter has 6 inverts & Spins but its true. If these kids LEARN how to ride their board now, teaching them flips & spins when they are stronger and comfortable is easy. Scare them now and they will NEVER come back no matter how much you the parents want. The second is these boards are HEAVY and when the kid weighs 70 pounds, that would be like us adults riding with a board that is 75 pounds on our feet. Mike told me about when he was a kid wanting to ride down a hill on his bike. He said he would stay awake at night telling himself tomorrow he was going to do it and never could. He came back years later and this hill wasn't even a hill it was like a bump. We all forget that these things are way bigger to the little ones. What is no big deal to us is a huge mountain to a little kid.
Taylor was in this rut for about 2 months and just two weeks ago she came out of it and just this week has learned about 3 new tricks and is close to a few others. If she is having trouble she will figure it out eventually but if all she wants to do is stand then let her. Remember even standing behind the boat she IS GETTING BETTER.
Now as a parent this is the hardest thing to watch and allow to happen but you have to let them work this out. I would highly suggest finding a coach for a few lessons NOT for the kid but for the parents to learn how and what to do when this happens. Help them get through it by letting them do what they want. Taylor's coach CONSTANTLY reminds me still to this day that we are not worried about what she is doing now but where she is at 5 years from now. They have to have fun now or they won't be around 5 years from now. Again I am no expert but I would guess she is not comfortable riding switch (landing for a 180). Hope this helps
Old    SoCal MOB (rnopr8)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-22-2009, 10:07 PM Reply   
Scott...Taylor is Blessed to have you as her dad!!! Just remember that you are her dad first


(Message edited by rnopr8 on August 22, 2009)
Old    Donna F (dfrost733)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-25-2009, 3:49 AM Reply   
Well said Scott! Sometimes it is hard for us parents to see our kids frustrated. I go through this ALL the time. Just remember to relax and have fun. Be positive, kids really want to please their parents and if she thinks she is disappointing you, it will make it even worse. The worst moment of this summer was after a bad session, we were trying to get chandler to learn his 360's and he was sitting there crying and said "I just don't want to disappoint you" ...oh man that killed me!! I don't ever want him to feel like I am disappointed...EVER! I think he is awesome, even if he can't land a 3 YET :-) Be positive and encouraging, she will do it when she is ready and comfortable again.
Old    Shane Miller (hematoma)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-25-2009, 12:29 PM Reply   
Thanks guys for all the suggestions. We slowed the boat down and she is landing the ollie 180's almost everytime. My husband got out there with her and played horse and that kinda took the edge off of things. She didn't even realize that she was trying different things. She had fun, we had fun and now she tells us she didn't know what she was so afraid of. She is back to her old self again...wanting to go out in the boat everyday and first up to wakeboard. It was great for her to smile while she was on the water and see her confidence back! Thanks again.
Old    Jim (jim_b)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-17-2009, 8:30 PM Reply   
Are you people for real??? You are talking about punishing a child because she is affraid to do a trick and get hurt? WTF is wrong with you people? Get a life

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