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Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 1:10 PM Reply   
I am seriously thinking about updating my 2000 BU VLX for a better wake and nicer features.

My 2000 BU VLX has been a good first boat but I would prefer a less rampy wake that is easier to build.

So, JR and I test rode the following three boats last week...

2009 BU VLX

The stock wake is small but a nice shape. I am sure a nice wake can be built with weight added but we did not pursue it. The pictured wake is with all tanks full and the wedge deployed. Honestly, I expected more from the stock ballast and wedge.

BU

2009 MB TWB

The stock wake is amazing and the shape is nice. Its easily the biggest stock wake by a longshot from anything that I ridden. The pictured wake is with the left right bays full.

MB

2008 CC SAN

The stock wake is small but a nice shape. This is the gold standard in wakes for me. The pictured wake is with the stock tanks full and about 250 lbs added to each rear locker.

CC
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-13-2009, 1:24 PM Reply   
i'm guessing my input here would be pretty pointless. :-)
Old    Keith (rkg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-13-2009, 1:24 PM Reply   
Did the Bu have the Power Wedge? I have gone out on a LSV several times and the tanks full (need front tank on these) and wedge 1/2 way the wake was very nice and big. From what I understand, the VLX wake when loaded out is very similar to the LSV (have not rode behind a VLX in ages)
Old    Keith (rkg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-13-2009, 1:25 PM Reply   
BTW, the more I have read about the MB, the more I am intrigued.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 1:31 PM Reply   
This was the 2009 BU VLX with the tanks full and the power wedge down. The wake was very small compared to the stock wake of the MB.

Again, CC SAN is the gold standard wake for me but the hassle of plumbing more ballast and the price has me considering the MB which was very nice.

Am I crazy to steer clear from the big 3?

I liked the stock wake a lot. I could have had fun on it all day long. But, I will need to ride it again before I sign on the dotted line.

Here's another pic of the MB TWB stock wake...

1
Old    Dizzy Jenkins (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       05-13-2009, 1:32 PM Reply   
whatever you do, dont try a 230/236
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-13-2009, 1:40 PM Reply   
are you kidding me??? the 230/236 is one of the best wakes out there, for stock its pretty nice, add some extra weight and its awesome. I think the stock 210 is awesome too, i rode behind one with like 4-5 guys in it and it was great!

To be honest though, all those pics look reallllly rampy, was it shallow water? The wake pics I had seen of that MB were a lot steeper than that
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 1:45 PM Reply   
What is a 230/236?

I am a 21 foot boat buyer. I have no interest in the bigger boats.
Old    Keith (rkg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-13-2009, 1:45 PM Reply   
That MB wake looks real nice, I have never really been afraid of steering clear of big 3, especially if I know I will keep it. MB seems to be stable, so warranty and reapairs should not be a big deal.

Sorry to ask on the BU again, but was the wedge all the way down or half way down? With the power wedge, you actaully do not put it all the way down, bring it back up some and the wake will change shape.
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-13-2009, 1:47 PM Reply   
I'm asuming yrou limited by local dealers, if not, try the Surpa 22. Big stock wake and very "peaky" not rampy like the amlibu at all.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       05-13-2009, 1:49 PM Reply   
I would not say you are crazy if you buy something other then MC,CC,Malibu.
It all comes down to what YOUR needs are and this is coming from a CC dealer.
Looks like that was a CC 210 GD, correct?
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 1:49 PM Reply   
According to the sales person, we were in MAXIMUM wake mode - a preset in the computer.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 1:58 PM Reply   
Yes, CC 210. I love the new CC 210 wake. I prefer it over the old CC 201. Its a bit more mild (less buck) but not overly rampy.

The MB TWB wake was surprisingly good and stock and super simple (purevert). With the CC 210 I will need to add hoses and bags that will require a bunch of effort/maintenance.
Old    K.B.C.            05-13-2009, 2:00 PM Reply   
230/236 = CC current flagship
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 2:32 PM Reply   
Another pic of the 2009 BU WAKE with stock ballast and wedge.

BU
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-13-2009, 2:53 PM Reply   
GD... as one of only two TWB's on the forum, I feel the need to chime in.

Don't be afraid of a small builder like MB... I was 99% sold on the idea of buying Malibu. Then I stumbled into a MB TWB demo and there was no going back. If you do an honest comparison of features you simply cannot beat this boat in the 21' segment. And it costs less!! And as you have probably noticed, the fit and finish is on par or superior to the Big 3.

So you have to ask yourself, is your purchase based on logic (MB wins) or emotion (Big 3 wins)?

BTW... I'm not knocking the Big 3. I still find myself drooling over MC X-2, Malibu VLX, and SAN 220. So I get the emotional pull those boats have. Seriously hawt machines... all of them. Nobody could blame you for choosing them.
Old    RT (tuckryan)      Join Date: Jun 2006       05-13-2009, 2:56 PM Reply   
Something must have had a big wake. It looks like at sank a houseboat in the 3rd picture!
Old    wakejjboard12            05-13-2009, 3:03 PM Reply   
Demo an EPIC.
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-13-2009, 3:05 PM Reply   
I want you to test drive MC.... Post the pics...

After seeing the MB pics....

I think their stock just went up...
Old    Larry Howard (longgonebon)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-13-2009, 3:10 PM Reply   
i can say as an MB owner- the quality is good but if you are worried about resale it is certainly a less known name. Another bonus to MB- the way the ballast is built, it is really easy to make a good surf wake- just fill one side and move your peeps over.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-13-2009, 3:51 PM Reply   
hijack

Larry, how do you weight your B52V for surfing?
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-13-2009, 3:55 PM Reply   
Ian, when are you gonna get some surf pics up of the new MB TWB? Also it says how he weights it.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-13-2009, 4:02 PM Reply   
yeah, i guess it does Hate... :-)

I took some surf pics last time I was out. Until the wife gets out of school (June 5th) I'll be a weekend warrior on the boat. Hoping to get out Sunday and will snap some more pics. Need to try a different location on the sac I think this time.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-13-2009, 5:17 PM Reply   
That BU' is awful.

I would say MB or 210
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-13-2009, 5:19 PM Reply   
wow
my stock 2007 VLX with the wedge has a bigger wake than that
go figure
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-13-2009, 5:21 PM Reply   
does the 'BU have the bow tank
that would make the difference
Old    rodney (azwakekid)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-13-2009, 6:55 PM Reply   
it looks like the picture with the malibu didnt have the wedge set right. the prop wash gives me that conclusion (sp?)
Old    Ajholt7 (ajholt7)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-13-2009, 7:46 PM Reply   
In the pic labeled 2008 CC SAN, did the wake sink the boat in the background?
Old    Greg McNeill (greg2)      Join Date: May 2002       05-13-2009, 7:53 PM Reply   
Have you considered an 09 V Ride (05-08 VLX hull)? Stock wake on it is pretty good.
Old    Anthony (echo_parker)      Join Date: Feb 2008       05-13-2009, 7:56 PM Reply   
someone needs to post the video of Byerly wakeboarding behind that old boat, with no wake going bigger then most people ever will. You guys crack me up about putting 5000 lbs. of lead and 8000 lbs. of sacs and a wedge and ballast with 18 people in the boat to get your perfect wake. I'm not ripping on you, I just think it's funny.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-13-2009, 8:09 PM Reply   
^ its totally do-able to ride on a old "ski" boat or some outbboard, but when I do I am huffing and puffing after like 4 tricks, you have to work so much harder, takes the fun out of it.

If I would have never known what a V-drve/ballast/tower was I would have no problem not using them, but after you've had it, hard to give up..... its like sex
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-13-2009, 8:25 PM Reply   
well, isn't the wake what all manufacturers strive to perfect? these are wakeboard boats, how else should they be judged?
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       05-13-2009, 8:42 PM Reply   
Never been in a 2009 VLX, but something doesn't look right with that wake.

From IXFE and Ian, I know the MB throws a sick wake. Best ballast in the industry, too. I wish Mike would make the seats a little deeper.

That CC wake looks great.

Hate to be that guy, just curious why you didn't consider a X-15?
Old    Michael ImObersteg (kickflip_mj)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-13-2009, 8:51 PM Reply   
so are you planning on just buying the boat for the stock wake or are you going to load the boat down? all these wakes are totaly different and in my opinion stock wakes arnt that great.

I have an 07 vlx and something doesnt look right with the wake. it looks to me that the power wedge was not put all the way down first then brought back to were the wake is suposedto be the biggest. i can tell you that that is not my stock wake.
Old    Tom Barnard (tlb)      Join Date: Feb 2003       05-13-2009, 9:06 PM Reply   
Dane, did you consider the VTX?
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 9:43 PM Reply   
I guess the 2009 BU VLX could have had an issue with the setup. But, the sales guy insisted that that was not the case.

I also understand that the 2009 VLX has a new hull so it could be that.
Old    Cory McLean (kikitlo)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-13-2009, 9:53 PM Reply   
GD,
Curious, When you say that the wedge was down was it all the way down? Not sure if you are aware but when you deploy the wedge it goes all the way down to the "Down" position. This has minimal effect on the wake. It allows you to get on plane easier. Once you are moving you have to tap the "UP" button for the wedge. You will notice the gauge moving up or indicating that the wake size is bigger.

Not trying to call you out or anything just curious if these steps were taken?
The gauge should look like this to have maximum effect on the wake.
Upload
Old    Anthony (echo_parker)      Join Date: Feb 2008       05-13-2009, 10:04 PM Reply   
Nick and Only inboards...

I understand exactly what you are saying. I am not criticizing GD for checking out different boat and wakes. When you are spending big money for a boat it is crucial to get exactly what you want.
I guess I should have reserved my comments for the guys talking about damn near sinking their boats for a ridiculous wake.

I meant no disrespect.

Good luck on the boat shopping!!
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 10:24 PM Reply   
I may have miss spoke with regard to "wedge down". I am not a wedge expert and that was my simple statement. The boat had the computer screen and the sales dude showed us how he set it for maximum/extreme wake mode which deployed the wedge and filled the tanks.

Again, I am not reporting with bias. I am just stating what we observed.
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-13-2009, 10:26 PM Reply   
can i interest you in a very nice Tige 22ve. just joking. but seriously, let me know. hahaha
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-13-2009, 10:27 PM Reply   
Wow, extreme mode huh? I guess not!
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 10:31 PM Reply   
Tom, the VTX may be a nice option. But, I really like the new BU VLX interior so I was hoping to like the wake. While I did not like the stock wake, I am sure a nice one can be built with added ballast.

The MB is really appealing to me. I want to try it one more time with 400 more lbs since I own that in lead and would be willing to put that in the boat. Stock ballast plus 400 lbs in lead sounds like a fair setup to me.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-13-2009, 10:35 PM Reply   
GD are you sure the wedge was down in that last photo because that is not what the VLX wake looks like with the wedge deployed. That wake looks like my VLX wake with 0 ballast and the transition is way to mellow to have the wedge down.

By the way the surf wake on the 09 vlx is nuts with one 750 sack on surf side rear locker.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-13-2009, 11:04 PM Reply   
Photos are only so good at showing wakes. Honestly, all of the wakes felt/rode bigger than these pictures.
Old    Danny (rubin)      Join Date: May 2006       05-13-2009, 11:16 PM Reply   
so...who sunk the houseboat?
Old    Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-13-2009, 11:49 PM Reply   
You should atleast try a Wakecraft. I am biased and I am a dealer, but I was in the same boat ( no pun intended) you were a year ago. I tried everything. Dollar for Dollar I got the best deal and ride from wakecraft. I liked them so much I became a dealer. All the boats you have tried are good boats. I just ask that you atleast get behind a wakecraft before you decide.
Enjoy The season.
dan
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       05-14-2009, 12:10 AM Reply   
that vlx wake does not look good, my 05 vride wake looks waaay better than that, one of my favorite wakes i've ridden in fact.
Old    pete c (saceone)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-14-2009, 12:14 AM Reply   
go with the nautique or the MB
Old     matt c (curtisco24)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-14-2009, 7:31 AM Reply   
have to agree something up w the malibu wake. That is not right. Its been noted time and again that the 05 vlx has the best stock wake out of the box. I know that is an 09 but I highly doubt they would go backwards.
Old    Keith (rkg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-14-2009, 7:34 AM Reply   
I would check two things on the Bu': did it have front ballast (is an option, but makes a huge difference) and check the wedge. I am not sure what the "Extreme" wake is, I can check with my Malibu friends to see where the wedge is. Just speaking from experience, with the bow ballast and the wedge set mid-way (would be roughly between all the way down and mid) the wake is good with a nice transition. The only way I know how to put it is a friend of mine if a tournament rider who used to load his Tige down with 3000 lbs and most other boats he rides behind would have similar weights. On the LSV, he rides stock ballast and wedge; has no complaints nor do several other advanced/masters riders. I only say that to say the wake on that VLX had to be missing something.

Whatever boat you choose, good luck. I have read your posts for a long time and you have always seemed to be an unbiased boater, so I am sure you will find the one that make you happy.
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-14-2009, 7:59 AM Reply   
I am bias being a 210 owner but I don't think there is a better 21' boat out there when thinking about all the wake sports. Great wake for boarding and skating with stock. It is a nice shape that give you consistent pop each time. The surf wake on this boat is crazy good with stock and 6-7 bodies. You can even get a decent slalom wake considering it is v-drive for the old timers than want to ski.

Warranty, quality, fit/finish, reale is all unmatched when comparing other boats to CC, IMO.

But like everyone has pretty much already said. You'll be getting a great boat with whatever you chose.

(Message edited by aarond0083 on May 14, 2009)
Old    Who Cares (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       05-14-2009, 8:13 AM Reply   
this is what the wake should look like on an all stock 09 vlx. we did a big write up on it last year and like every one else has said something was not right in your demo.this pic is @ 22mph. full ballast NO WEDGE }and 4 peeps.

Upload

(Message edited by liljohn on May 14, 2009)
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-14-2009, 8:39 AM Reply   
BTW, resale is not a big deal for me since I tend to keep boats for 8 to 10 years. By that time, resale is not much of an issue. Its certainly not high on my list compared to how the boat performs over the 8 to 10 years.
Old    Phil Veit (bigjackamo)      Join Date: Aug 2002       05-14-2009, 9:26 AM Reply   
Is it me or do those two BU wakes look identical? Even the prop wash is going the same way.

(Message edited by bigjackamo on May 14, 2009)
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-14-2009, 10:02 AM Reply   
My sales rep says: "the BU was set up in the advanced mode with the bow ballast full and wedge down".

Here are 3 more pics of the 2009 BU VLX wake to compare to above.

1

2

3
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-14-2009, 10:16 AM Reply   
You have sold me on the VALUE of MB. It won't have the prestige of the big three, but it will get the job done.

Someone needs to slide the roof of that sunk house boat. Assuming you have the owners permission of course!
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-14-2009, 10:18 AM Reply   
Looks small to me too. And no real defined line at the top like I usually see (see liljohn's wake above).

BTW, where the hell are you riding? Quite the obstacle course you have there.

Upload
Old    K.B.C.            05-14-2009, 10:19 AM Reply   
Man, this thread is really upsetting all of the bu guys. One more time right, GD are you sure the wedge was in the "max" wake position? HAHA
Old    K.B.C.            05-14-2009, 10:21 AM Reply   
Bill, it's the Delta. There is stuff like that everywhere.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-14-2009, 10:34 AM Reply   
if you're in the market for a 21' you can't forget the X1, X15 and supra's 21'. supra has one of the most underrated wakes in the biz in my opinion. anyone who's ever been out behind the DRA supra knows that wake is a banger.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-14-2009, 10:47 AM Reply   
Yup, I dig Gary's Supra Wake. A personal favorite.

GD... Give me an excuse to take you out on a X2. I need to get some water time on one. My step dad picked one up last year. Cool boat. Lot's of space in a small package. I haven't even ridden behind it yet, though. Shoot me a PM if you're interested. The good weather is here. Let's go ride.

I've always liked the MB wakes, too. From the 23' team edition, to the big and small Tomcat's. I've always been impressed with the stock wake. They've got great kick.

Scotty... We're working on a deal for BC4 right now. You know it'll be slumpin'. When're you coming down for a ride?
Old    Luke B (pureblue)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-14-2009, 10:56 AM Reply   
lol Scott I was thinking the same thing. However, since others seem to have the complete opposite experience with the vlx it very well could have been a problem. The only thing that gets me is if it was the TWB wake everyone would be saying "that is how the wake is." And has anyone ever had someone complain about their wake on their boat? Not getting after you keith, I see it said on just about any comparison thread. Seriously if someone did that they are super rude.
Old    Keith (rkg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-14-2009, 11:09 AM Reply   
I would not say complain, but I have heard guys critique a wake many times. Perhaps not to the person, but it gets said. And as on here, people will voice their opinion on what they liked or did not like.
Old    K.B.C.            05-14-2009, 11:09 AM Reply   
nice Evan, I read "new boat" somewhere earlier today and was wondering what you were getting. That's pretty sweet that another X-Star came through. Big block? Sounds like a good excuse to get my butt down there. Hopefully soon, I need to get the early season kinks out first so I don't look like such a Wally out there, haha.

sorry all, end hijack...
Old    B (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-14-2009, 11:14 AM Reply   
I am not impressed with the Malibu Wake pictures you have. I have an 06 with the power wedge and front bow and when they are all full and wedge down my wake looks a hell of a lot better than what you are showing.

Just my two cents. I plan on going out this Monday I will try to snap a picture.

I was impressed with MB sport boats at the boat show years ago, but never been behind one. Not to into their graphics (flames), but looks like a nice boat to have.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-14-2009, 11:59 AM Reply   
Brannan, did you know the BU changed the VLX hull for 2009? I doubt many people have ridden the 2009 BU VLX. Or, we rode one that had issues.

BTW, the BU had the best interior by a long shot. The guy who designed that interior should be given an award.

I also like the MB interior but its just nice -- not as stylish as the BU. Meanwhile, I think the CC interior is very functional but rather ugly -- so rectangular and so broken up.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-14-2009, 12:02 PM Reply   
Yes the hull has changed for 2009 and it's better not worse.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (kickflip_mj)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-14-2009, 12:33 PM Reply   
Dude i need to go ride that house boat... check out the roof. nice little ride

were you shopping at larson marine?? i really like that dealer.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-14-2009, 12:35 PM Reply   
The CC 210 is the best wake of the bunch w/o a doubt.

And to the guy who said don't ride the 230/236... you r a turd... thats the best wake on the planet right now.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-14-2009, 1:02 PM Reply   
"The CC 210 is the best wake of the bunch w/o a doubt."

Have you ridden 09 VLX and MB TWB?

I've ridden the 07+ CC210 with stock and more and IMO with stock it is nice but smallish. With significant weight its super nice.
Old    Dizzy Jenkins (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       05-14-2009, 1:16 PM Reply   
lol a turd that owns a 236. you guys suck at sarcasm.
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-14-2009, 1:29 PM Reply   
I guess Ill ask again, how shallow of water? Shallow water will do that to a wake.
Old    Tickle (showtime)      Join Date: Nov 2005       05-14-2009, 1:36 PM Reply   
This is by far the best thread all year.....
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-14-2009, 1:43 PM Reply   
I don't think the water was that shallow. See the big ass ship in the background.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       05-14-2009, 1:46 PM Reply   
"I don't think the water was that shallow. See the big ass ship in the background."
hahaha
Old    John Gardner (roverjohn)      Join Date: Dec 2007       05-14-2009, 1:47 PM Reply   
Yeah, I wonder what the wake on that thing is like fully loaded.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-14-2009, 1:48 PM Reply   
Tickle did you not sell your boat.

Brooke and I need to bum a pull.

I have beer and gas money.
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       05-14-2009, 1:59 PM Reply   
These threads are hilarious. Buy this boat, no buy this one, no this one! I didn't know everyone on here made commission off a boat sale.
Old    Greg McNeill (greg2)      Join Date: May 2002       05-14-2009, 6:11 PM Reply   
A friend of mine does have a new 09 VLX and it does take a little more weight to get the same wake as my 09 V-Ride, but I assure you it will produce a great wake. The hull is wider than the 05-08 VLX (09 V ride) hull, so the wakes will be a little different.
Old    Gerald B. (ncboarderboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-14-2009, 8:57 PM Reply   
tickle,
havent seen u out in a while. still got the boat?

end hijack

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