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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through April 03, 2009

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Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       04-01-2009, 3:19 PM Reply   
Not only is ShadowBox a new advertiser on WakeWorld (cough, plug), but they have come out with what looks like a potentially amazing product that I think would be very fun to play with, so I wanted to see what everyone thought. You can read the press release at http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=2127, but basically it's a device that you put on your board and it records your entire run in terms of motion. It tells you when you jumped, what trick you did, how high you went, how far you went, what G-forces you encountered and all kinds of other data.

When I first heard about it, I thought of two great uses. First, would be for coaching. Once a coach knows how to interpret the data from this device, he/she could conceivably give you advice from across the country via email after you send him/her your run.

The second would be for contests, either formal or with your buddies. You could see who goes the highest or has the most total hangtime on the day. Maybe make the lowest G-forces pay for lunch! :-)

What else could you do?

Upload
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       04-01-2009, 3:44 PM Reply   
Pretty cool, would definately add to the boat competition.....Wonder if this will be in play for the DU or nothing?
Old    Nick Yochman (lakemiltonwake08)      Join Date: Oct 2008       04-01-2009, 4:40 PM Reply   
Saw their recent ad in Wakeboarding mag, looks like a really cool product. Also looks pricey, interested in seeing a price tag on it.
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-01-2009, 4:44 PM Reply   
I think it's cool, but in a single set I jump probably 25-50 times. I am imagining a lot of data that maybe is too much to sort through. For looking at a single jump or a single trick though it would be very interesting data.

It would help much more to see data and video at the same time. If you didn't have video it's just numbers.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-01-2009, 4:46 PM Reply   
how much?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-01-2009, 4:47 PM Reply   
~$450
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-01-2009, 4:48 PM Reply   
not as much as i thought it would be
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-01-2009, 4:56 PM Reply   
....... If this is what I think it is........
Old    Anodyne (anodyne)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-01-2009, 5:22 PM Reply   
Ohhh man... this thing could lead to some pretty fantastic contests...

I can already see me and my pals competing for highest speed.
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-01-2009, 5:24 PM Reply   
id like to know how t knows what trick you did,i know people who cant call tricks let a lone turbo charged non video taking unit,how does it work?
Old    Ray M (wakeborder5)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-01-2009, 5:29 PM Reply   
It would probably tell you rotation around the x- and y-axes and could be programmed with the names of tricks for certain combinations or u could figure it out with the degrees of rotation and it shows you the arc of the jump and the position of the board throughout the arc and you could tell if they were upside down or not, how much they had spun at each point, etc.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-01-2009, 7:36 PM Reply   
SUPER COOL But a Bit out of my price range at $449.00. But that technology is worth every penny of that.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-01-2009, 8:08 PM Reply   
This could have a detrimental effect also. Imagine if Harf had it on his board and the device read that he only spun 1249 degrees (and I am not implying that he didn't spin a 1260, just an example). Do we have to start renaming tricks? Ah, man I just landed that backside 348.
Old    david (dnp33)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-01-2009, 8:10 PM Reply   
would there be some kind of warranty cause i can see those things getting broken really easy..
Old    David Williamson (davey_boy)      Join Date: Dec 2005       04-01-2009, 8:18 PM Reply   
How exactly is it attached? I'd be worried it would come off and sink. Also, is it easy to quickly swamp it from board to board or is there mounting hardware that you'd have to screw on/screw off each time?
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-01-2009, 9:01 PM Reply   
If you look at the website it tells all about how its attatched. Basically there are 4 brackets that are double side taped to your board. From there you can pop it on and off which ever board you want. So this will solve the cost issue because you and you friends can go in on one unit and cut the cost down. There is also a safety leash to you bindings in case the bracket tape fails so you don't loose the unit
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       04-01-2009, 9:07 PM Reply   
It'll be on BBB for 20 bucks in 6 months
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-01-2009, 9:14 PM Reply   
Jeremy Allen,

i could be wrong, but i don't think judging is too strict on rotation exactness. when the 1080 bounty contest was still open there was some rules/descriptions that said that an 90 degree or less surface maneuver was acceptable, but nothing more.

unless i am wrong?? someone correct me.
but at the same time i do see your point Jeremy,
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-01-2009, 9:34 PM Reply   
something that has not yet been mentioned is... one, but very powerful, yet broad word...
...
...
MARKETING

I imagine this tool being used in marketing boards. i imagine that details from the device could be used to make very convincing or otherwise detailed specs and descriptions for boards.

Even if the shadow box did not end up being used as a direct marketing tool from the companies I imagine that at least it will be used promotionally on a rider to rider bases. Soon enough we will be seeing threads on the discussion boards asking, "how fast were you able to get that thing going, cutting into the wake at a boat speed of 22?" OR comments like "Yes the ______ board gets tons of pop! yesterday my shadow box recorded__________"

The thing is gona revolutionize board reviews!!!


Along similar lines. Companies could use the device to tweak and perfect prototypes. pro riders can not only go by "feel", comparing their old board to the newer-upcoming one. the rider can now look at this neat little box and say, "the speed is good, now lets add some more pop"


Maybe now we can start to PROVE Design innovations.
Does the Obrien Delta Base really make a board go faster? and by how much?
Do three stage boards really give more pop? and what are the bucking g forces involved?
Do Flex Boards Really land softer?
etc. etc.
...maybe this last idea could prove to be a little "detrimental" as Jeremy Allen was saying for PROVING TRICKS. now we will be able to PROVE FEATURES as gimmicks or not




HEY!!... maybe we can strap this damn thing onto a wake helmet and prove once and for all if helmets DO increase concussions or not!!!
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-01-2009, 10:16 PM Reply   
Using it to market more pop is worthless.... I can go out and barely pop 15 times in a row on a 3-stage, then haul ass and pop as hard as I can on a cont. rocker boat and it will clearly look like the cont. rocker is far better....


its use as a marketing device are exactly like every other marketing device.... subjective to the company. Anyone can change data to show what they want.... would work the same with this, unless it was an independent completely un-bias source.... good luck finding that.
or
You could somehow do some sort of lab trial with a board hitting a constant wake, with a constant cut, with a constant "pop", and a constant rider weight, leaving the only real thing to chance being the wakeboard its numbers would prove nothing

I still think it is an awesome product but its use to sell something isn't there for me.

(Message edited by sidekicknicholas on April 01, 2009)
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-01-2009, 11:38 PM Reply   
i suppose it would have to be like SAMPLING

and mostly i see it now as an extra edge of promotional power on a rider to rider and board review bases after having thought it through. or even just a helper when demoing boards, a personal reviewer.

an example of SAMPLING would be to take several wide turns and slayshes at the wake and then take the average/mean or the mode of the results gained. you know, more of a statistics edge than a laboratory edge? which i guess still is NOT "PROVING" as you were hinting at, but closer to it. something measurable
Old    Alex Klimowsow (liquid_force24)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-02-2009, 4:57 AM Reply   
Was this another April Fools Joke?
Old    Seth Pangle (sethenol)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-02-2009, 5:13 AM Reply   
it could determine the ability between different winches based on riders performace data.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-02-2009, 6:25 AM Reply   
I'm developing a product that will measure the G-Force on my sphincter when taking a dump in order to adequately determine the stress level different foods have on my rectal system. MSRP is probably going to be around $999.00.

I think it will go over pretty well.... much like this product.

-End Sarcasm.

Shadowbox Seriously? What a worthless use of technological innovation. Use your ingenuity to develop something that we could actually use and afford. Flame on... Just my $0.02.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-02-2009, 6:56 AM Reply   
Luke, are you mad because this product doesn't measure in inches?

I think it's a cool idea. You can put an end to friends arguing about who went bigger
Old    calum moore (calummoore)      Join Date: Nov 2007       04-02-2009, 6:57 AM Reply   
I agree with Alex. This thing has to be a joke. That's ridiculous.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-02-2009, 6:57 AM Reply   
^hahahaa

zing.
Old    Craig Cox (wakedoctor)      Join Date: Dec 2004       04-02-2009, 7:21 AM Reply   
Depending on the accuracy of it would depend on my purchase. If it is really accurate, someone like me who rides with one other person in the boat that is more focused on driving than coaching could see trends in their approach to the wake and have a helping hand if x trick was given them a hard time. This is the reason I would buy but everyone is different. Some people have a boat load of people, I have a driver and sometimes a video cam if I am learning something knew.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-02-2009, 7:21 AM Reply   
They are coming out with a deluxe model that will also display the following readouts:

*Is cable better than boat
*Is flex better than non-flex
*It will settle the dispute on who makes the best boat
*It will tell you if you should rhino-line your teak platform
Old    anthemwake (anthemwake)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-02-2009, 8:10 AM Reply   
This has got to be a joke. If it's not, then it's the dumbest GD thing I've ever seen.
Old    Loren (helix_rider)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-02-2009, 8:22 AM Reply   
I disagree that its the 'dumbest thing'. For some people, definitely worthless. For me, way out of my price range for a gadget.

But picture a group of 'older' buddies who ride together for fun/exercise. Instead of learning new tricks, they simply do the HS jump all day long (face it, not everyone out there is doing inverts and spins...I'll bet >50% of boarders just carve all day and fall when they try TS jumps). This would provide a fresh approach for these riders. Compete to see who 'jumps' furthest, goes fastest, has the most G-forces. I could see lots of people who aren't serious about boarding getting a kick out of it. And in the end, it might help them progress.
Old    swass            04-02-2009, 9:13 AM Reply   
That's pretty cool...but how can I now say "dude, I was at least 6 feet in the air!" when all someone has to do is look?? "Uhhhh...looks like you were just under 4, there, killer."
Old    Jeff (jroyal)      Join Date: Jan 2003       04-02-2009, 9:49 AM Reply   
Not sure if I'm willing to risk a $449 product to double sided tape. However, if you can see the screen while riding and it displays live results after landing, this will be a good product. It would be handy for knowing how to improve your approach to increase your height.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       04-02-2009, 9:54 AM Reply   
Gives an immediate winner to the Parks Double up or Nothing Contest.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-02-2009, 10:00 AM Reply   
Incorporating something as bogus as this into a contest format would be a slippery slope. Basically a self calculating point system... rivaling the lameness of INT, and taking all the value out of steeze.

...but for Parks DoN, I do see your point kyle.

Just not a fan.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       04-02-2009, 10:03 AM Reply   
Here is the real question. Say you take it to the cable park, McCormicks or OWC and hit the big kicker (they are identical). Do you think that it will measure your jump from the top of the kicker or from the water? I seriously would love to take a couple laps with this thing going as big as I can, but something gives me a feeling the force of impact from that high up will dislodge the shadowbox. I think there will be a lot of problems with this device personally, but if I got one for free to test out, i wouldn't be opposed to it :-).
Old    Dizzy Jenkins (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       04-02-2009, 10:27 AM Reply   
does it measure steeze?
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       04-02-2009, 10:36 AM Reply   
That would actually be pretty hilarious if they came up with a Steeze rating! They could do it like the NFL does the quarterback rating. Come up with a formula that nobody understands based on all the data input into the system from each ride and spit out a score! :-)

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