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Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 7:38 AM Reply   
The hard tanks are removed and bags are in place instead,the bags are 450lbs,and the center bag is stock. My question is the hard tanks were only 250lbs each and the center belly tank is 400lbs is this correct? What I am going to do is remove the rear 450's and replace with Fly High 750's and remove the center stock bag and replace with Fly High's center gravity games bag and also install the Fly High integrated bow bag under the front bow seats. Only concern I have is,will the gravity games center bag be to big to put in place of the stock center bag? Thanks for your info.
Old    Mike Snyder (rem_pss308)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-20-2009, 7:40 AM Reply   
It wont fill all the way, But it should hold more water than the original one.
Just swapped mine out yesterday, and when filled it pushes the door to the ski locker up.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 7:48 AM Reply   
Mike, Thanks that was what I figured would probably happen. I know it would never fill all the way do to no way near enough room,just wanted to make sure I wasn't putting to much bag under the floor.
Old    Mike Snyder (rem_pss308)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-20-2009, 8:02 AM Reply   
Same will happen with the integrated sac under the cushions. I have talk to guys that put that in, and had to put something on top to keep it from pushing the seat cushions up. ( like a 1/4" peice of plywood about 12" wide, and cut to fit under the lip on each side)
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 8:09 AM Reply   
Mike, Yep I added that integrated sac to my friends X2 and that does happen,he uses the seats coming up as his guide to stop filling,I agree with you the plywood or something on that order should be used also.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-20-2009, 1:25 PM Reply   
i'm using the fly high rear seat sac in my locker, per fly high's recommendation. doesn't fill all the way, but more than stock and may be cheaper than their gravity games bag if you haven't bought it yet.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-20-2009, 1:48 PM Reply   
I don't think there is any point in putting that Gravity games sack in the locker. It isn't going to come close to fitting. Do what Bruce did and save some money. I bet the most water weight you can get in the locker is 400-500 pounds if you used every square inch.

(Message edited by polarbill on March 20, 2009)
Old    K.B.C.            03-20-2009, 1:51 PM Reply   
with that much weight in the rear you'll need a bag in the walkway as well
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-20-2009, 3:37 PM Reply   
I agree with putting the rear seat sac in the locker. You will get a good amount of weight out of it. Optimize the space you have. The integrated bow sac will help keep that bow down and also be awesome for wakesurfing. Should be a good setup.

Spencer
spencer@wakemakers.com
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-20-2009, 5:01 PM Reply   
JJP, i had a custom locker sac made for my 05 X2. The dimensions of the locker is basically 11" deep, 12" wide and 85" long. I did those measurements on the sac except I went 83" instead of 85" because i knew it would bulge some. With that being said our lockers will only hold a max of around 400+ pounds. What your doing sounds like a good idea and ALOT cheaper than going with a custom sac. The old stock sac was a 12"x70" cylinder that held around 300lbs, so you will gain 100 more pounds using the gravity sac.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 6:40 PM Reply   
Thanks a ton guy's! I have decided to change this up just a bit. I now am going with the Rear Gravity Games sac's for the rear which these are 565lbs each so I'm only loosing around 370lbs by not doing the 750's which in return I could use some of the extra storage I hope to have now by going a little smaller. Also still not sure of the center bag,for right now still doing the Gravity Games,but I am liking these ideas that you guy's have done. Also for sure doing the front bow sac. Also I will be doing a bag on the left side under the set,which will be just for surfing to help out,any suggestions on this bag? Thanks again for all your ideas!
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-20-2009, 6:47 PM Reply   
how much do the 565's cost?
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-20-2009, 6:53 PM Reply   
just a thought, but how long are the 565's compared to the 450's compared to the 750's?

if you're not gainig any room in front of the bag, you may as well get the 750's and not fill them all the way for wakeboarding and then you can stuff one one 750 full on either rear side locker for surfing (you'll need it). otherwise if you still need storage you may compare dimensions to the 450's and the 565's. since there's only 100lbs/200lbs total difference in the rear.

the 750's will need support on your dividers when completely full because when they bulge they'll push your dividers into your exhaust manifolds. not so much when surfing though.

the 750's take up the entire rear locker, but you can still put stuff on top of them when they're empty or not completely full.

you're on the right track. all i can say is as much as you can get in the center locker and def the integrated bow sac as long as you have at least 450 in each rear locker.

(Message edited by brucemac on March 20, 2009)
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 6:57 PM Reply   
Steve,I was quoted today by my dealer for about $200 each. Did you have flyhigh do your center bag? After going back to there web site I do think the Gravity Games center may just be way to big and should do the rear seat sac or just keep stock since doing integrated in bow anyway.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 7:09 PM Reply   
Bruce,the 450's in it now are straight line which is why they are coming out plus want more weight. I just purchased this boat two day's ago so basically going to do a complete change over. I did my friends X2 which I put the v drive bags in rear while keeping the tanks in also,and integrated in the bow and all works with his factory pumps just turns on a off a couple ball valves to desired bags to fill. I just am doing mine a step further with doing something with the center and adding a bag on the side for surfing. Plus my old boat was a 2000 centurion V Drive which was a ass to get proper weight but heck of a surf boat. And yes Bruce just a bit in question which for the rear as you pointed out I may need that extra weight.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 7:12 PM Reply   
Bruce, Gravity Games rear are 42x19x19, the 750's are 50x20x20 and as for the 450's no idea. So I guess room wise I'm not gaining nothing,kinda answered my own question on this one!
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-20-2009, 7:27 PM Reply   
Ya, i had flyhigh make the center sac for me. I am running the flyhigh v-drive sacs as well and there dimensions are 16x16x42. That 8" difference between the 750's and the gravity games or the v-drive sacs is actually great. With the 750's theres no more storage when full, with the v-drive sacs i can put stuff on top and i have room for medium icechests in front of each sac. If i want more weight in the back i just throw some popbags back there wich gets me around the 550lb mark.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 7:34 PM Reply   
Steve, do you think by changing the center from stock helped out a lot if so I think I might just do what Bruce did to gain in the center and would be a lot cheaper also.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 7:39 PM Reply   
I should ask this question while I'm thinking of it. Did you guy's change prop's also with this weight? My friend Tyler didn't but he has the MCX and it still takes a little to get her going..and since I will have the 330hp maybe I should look at that..?
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-21-2009, 9:04 AM Reply   
Every bit of extra weight is good especially when its hiden and at the flip of a switch. I have the RTP-1 and upgraded the prop. I think its the 14.25x14.5 OJ XMP. HUGE DIFFERENCE!
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-21-2009, 9:29 AM Reply   
Thanks Steve, I will check into the prop then and Thanks for all the ballast info.
Old    Paul Weintz (paulw)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-21-2009, 10:12 AM Reply   
I have the OJ XMP 14.25 X 14.5 and I have the Acme 14.5 X 14.25 and I like the Acme better. It has more hole shot than the OJ. Don't get me wrong the OJ is a nice prop and I use it for my spare but I like the Acme better. This is on an 06 XStar with the mcx
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-21-2009, 2:59 PM Reply   
Paul,is there much of a price difference between the two? I have not looked up any prop's yet so was just curious. Thanks
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-21-2009, 8:50 PM Reply   
I have this exact boat and also thought of swapping out the locker sac when my original factory bag bit the dust. Seriously the MC factory sac fills that space pretty good. You may get an extra 50-100lbs out of a custom sac fro twice the dough, but you're better off saving the money and just getting a 600 to put in the walkway because if you plan on surfing and/or running the 750's you are going to need everybit of that 600 up there. Even the bowsac that goes under those seats isn't going to be enough with th 750's full.

Here's how the pros ran the boat back in the day on the tour. 600's in each rear, 600 long ways in front of the rear seat and a 600 in the bow walkway and factory center tank.

Here's how most of us who run ours run them.
750's in the rear(not quite all the way full), factory center tank and a 600 give or take a few in the walkway. Some of us like it steep some of us like a little less kick. Me I like the kick so tend to run a little less than the 600.

You def want to upgrade the prop to a 14.25 or 14.5 prop to get the best performance/gasmilage/holeshot out of the engine with these configs
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-21-2009, 9:30 PM Reply   
I hear ya on that Swatguy, that custom sac was a little pricey, but when my stock sac took a crap i couldve either paid MC $400 for the exact sac or pay $275 from flyhigh for the exact dimensions of the locker and gain another 100 lbs of weight. Thats why i went with the custom sac. Since your running the 750's did you have to make braces for your dividers so they wouldnt rest on the mainfolds? Id like to see some pics from the guys who have done it.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-22-2009, 11:45 AM Reply   
Steve & Swatguy,I was thinking of removing the plastic dividers and having aluminum ones made to the exact dimensions as the plastic. You think that would be enough running the 750's then?
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-22-2009, 2:16 PM Reply   
I'm kinda confused, do you need the braces so the dividers wont melt against the manifolds or is it the preasure laying on the engine. If its the heat then i would line the inside of the divider only where it rests on the manifolds with some stainless or aluminum instead of totally replacing your entire divider. If that makes sense.
Old    Paul Weintz (paulw)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-22-2009, 5:22 PM Reply   
The OJ came on the new boat so not sure how much it was. I think the Acme was $ 450.00 with a discount given at Chicago MasterCraft. They give some good prices over there. I think it was more if I went to Acme direct.
The OJ is a little thicker and can take a little more abuse than the Acme. Although I trashed the Acme by hitting the prop guard in a fast running river, I thought it was a paperweight and they fixed it like new for $ 150
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-22-2009, 8:50 PM Reply   
Steve,

I would agree. I would have done the custom sac as well if I didn't get "hooked up" withe the MC factory one. I wasn't saying a custom isn't worth it...... was saying that if you have the factory center sac and it is good... you would be better severed saving the $$ for other things.

As for the dividers. Some guys have added braces. Me......I just did what Steve mentioned to keep them from melting. Added a piece of wood instead. I know ghetto, but it hasn't caught fire and it worked :-)
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-23-2009, 6:39 AM Reply   
Steve,Yep I totally see what you mean by only lining the divider which is what I am going to do instead of replacing.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-23-2009, 2:21 PM Reply   
hey, not to hi-jack, but before this thread winds down, i have a question, for those of you using the OJ 14.25 x 14.5 XMP Edge with the 205V/X-2/X-1 hull what is your RPM and speed at WOT?

any porpoising at higher speeds? either empty, or full?

i bought their (new at the time) 14.75 x 15.5 XMP Edge for my 03 X-2 with MCX last year based off of Eric's recommendation. the thing is a monster. perfect in just about every way for wakeboarding. the only problem is that i start to porpoise at anything above about 31 MPH (verified by stargazer). i'm running at about 5150 or so (near the limiter) at WOT, can't remember the speed, but i think it's about 38mph with a moderate crew and gear.

i'm just curious what you folks with the 14.25 x 14.5 are seeing performance characteristic wise.

eric at oj is willing to swap this one out for the 14.25 and even let me try them both on the same day. i'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of hole shot for a smooth ride at top end.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-23-2009, 2:27 PM Reply   
I must say the service these prop companies give is outstanding, both Eric @ OJ and the team at Acme are stunners.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-23-2009, 3:05 PM Reply   
yeah Eric is awesome. i hear great things about Acme as well, but i've yet to ever need to call them because Eric at OJ has taken such great care of me. both great companies.
Old    Erik (etakk7)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-23-2009, 4:18 PM Reply   
bruce,

I've got very similar results with my 14.25 x 14.5 OJ. Tops out at about 39 MPH. Comes right up on plane with about 2200 lbs, 1500 of which is in the rear.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-23-2009, 5:30 PM Reply   
erik, are you porpoising at all then? if so at what speed? i don't have any serious skiers in my crew, but if i ever do, i'd want to give them a good pull, as it is now, i can't go any faster than 31 or so without bobbing up out and back down. what motor?

maybe what i'm looking for doesn't exist with the lower end tourqe wakeboard props.

(Message edited by brucemac on March 23, 2009)
Old    Erik (etakk7)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-24-2009, 7:18 AM Reply   
Bruce - I don't experience any porpoising at all. (Just to make sure I understand, by that you mean bouncing up and down) In any case I slalom ski behind my 205V (330LTR motor) at 34 MPH and it is a smooth ride, albeit with pretty high RPM's.
Old    Paul (phat_in_cincy)      Join Date: May 2003       03-24-2009, 10:12 AM Reply   
Below are some threads/DIYs I did for my 205v. Might help some...

General DIYs (ballast, heat, bow filler sub, engine wall support, etc...)
http://www.wakesiderides.com/forums/index.php?showforum=64

Ballast info:
http://www.wakesiderides.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17225

Prop info:
http://www.wakesiderides.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17915&hl=
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-24-2009, 12:21 PM Reply   
thanks for the help paul. much appreciated. eric's going to send me the 14.25 x 14.5 to try out the same day i take her out with the current 14.75 x 15.5.

out of curiosity, you had additional work/changes for the cup adjustment right? do you recall what specifically that did to the performance of the standard 14.25 x 14.5 XMP Edge prop?
Old    Paul (phat_in_cincy)      Join Date: May 2003       03-24-2009, 1:28 PM Reply   
Just the .120 cup, but OJ has a part # for it so it's not special. IIRC I was wanting to bring the RPMs down a bit and keep some top end and Eric suggested the .120 cup. My memory is fuzzy tho, so you might want to ask Eric directly what the benefits of adding the cup are.

Glad I could help.

(Message edited by phat in cincy on March 24, 2009)
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       04-01-2009, 4:08 PM Reply   
Sorry been away from the board.....I run the Acme #1235 14.5 X 14.25 on my 2000 X-Star with LTR 330hp. No porpusing at ski speeds with ballast is empty. I would def try a different prop Bruce.

You running the speeds with the cockpit full or people? you may have to add a couple to the bow, but agai that doesn't seem right and I would highly recommend trying the new prop.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       04-01-2009, 5:03 PM Reply   
yeah swat thanks. eric at oj is going to send me a new one after i dewinterize in a couple weeks. doesn't seem to matter how much weight or where it's at. going to try them both, but suspect, i'll end up with the same one as paul. depends on where my RPMs fall at WOT since i have the MCX.
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-02-2009, 7:15 AM Reply   
if you really want to make the wake insane try this: 750's in the rear completely full, 600 behind drivers seat & 60 in lead under the port bench (balances out the 600 bag since it can't go as far to the port side), 600 going lengthwise from middle of boat up into walk way, 350 ski locker, 350 integrated bow sac, 1100 bow wedge. put the speed at 26/27, and the rope at 87 ft.
Old     (1boarder_kevin)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-02-2009, 3:38 PM Reply   
Bruce Mac,

I had the x1 with the 14.25x14.5 and got into porposing. I also got into it with the old factory 13.7x17. I don't know how much the prop factors into porposing, but adding weight to the front of the boat (either move people or i would fill the front ballast) will stop it. The x1 also seemed like it handled the chop better if you left the front ballast full so more of the V was in the water instead of the flatter bottom torward the back.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       04-02-2009, 3:56 PM Reply   
1boarder, any idea at what speed?

i'm fine with a little up past 34-35 or so, but would like to be able to at least hit like 31-34 before it starts for skiers.
Old     (1boarder_kevin)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-02-2009, 6:10 PM Reply   
If i remember, it started in the mid 30s. Take note on how the boat is weighted and I guarantee if you shift weight (or add weight) to the front, the porposing will go away.

Another way to shift weight up front is to get a wake plate (trim tab) that you can adjust down. This will pick the back of the boat up and force the front of the boat down giving the same result of adding weight to the front. There have been many discussions on this on MCs forum and I think many felt this solved the porposing} problem that the xstar/x2/x1 gets into sometimes.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       04-03-2009, 10:52 AM Reply   
Kein makes a good point. When I am cruising around the lake or river I always run with a little weight in the nose. Seems to give me a much better ride. But when I am puling a skier, which is rare, I dump the sac

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