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Old    Matthew Spencer (canadian_waterboy)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-19-2009, 7:42 PM Reply   
I'm trying to learn a toe 7, and I just want to make sure I'm doing it the RIGHT way. First off, is this the obvious progression after heel and toe 5's? Should I be trying backside heel 5's first? Second how should I be approaching this trick, last season I was trying them off the double up, but not having much experience riding double ups I was very inconsistent. (some times I was getting all the way around, and other times I was barely 4 inches off the water... torn MCL end of season) Lastly, what length of rope should I be trying this trick on? I usually ride 65 feet, but I'm thinking that a wider wake might give me more time in the air? Needless to say I'm completely lost on how to attack this trick. Some advice would be greatly appreciated.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-19-2009, 8:00 PM Reply   
I don't have a 7 but I'm pretty sure riding at 65 and changing the speed and weighting in the boat isn't the way to get one ;)

Keep everything the same so you don't mess up your timing... and start riding a longer rope homie! I don't know a single person stomping 7s that ride less than 80 back.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-19-2009, 8:25 PM Reply   
I was starting to legitimately try these late last year. (By legit, I mean actually getting the handle around and really trying to land it outside of the Guinea pigging stage). (If Mike P. didnt knock himself out on a HS 5 in early october we (both of us were trying for them) might have gotten some 7's in the book.)

My TS 5's are pretty solid but my TS 3's are sketchy. IMO you need to have TS 3's on lock first, otherwise its gets real frustrating landing with the handle in that position and not being able to pull it out.

You also need quick hands. Get some 5's down with the handle in your front hand with time to spare. This will give you a better foundation for going for that last pass.

Also: I dont know what your speed, weight, boat setup is but I personally ride around 80-85 ft. The extra length gives me more time to get those spins around. You could probably knock out a 7 at 65 ft...if your just looking to land a trick like its a checklist or something.

Also, one of the best tips I got on this was from Andy N. He said to come at it like a 7 and not a 5 + 1. This is really important (for me) because if I come at it like a 5+1 I get handed a nice back edge.
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-19-2009, 8:31 PM Reply   
I dont have a seven either but i can tell you that changing your rope to 80 feet wont help you either. If 65 is where you have the best wake than you need to ride 65 ft. Gekko's are not really known for their wake characteristics, but you want to find a speed and line legnth that you are comfortable with first. If it were me I would for a couple sets really work on taking a 3 as big as i could at different speeds and lengths. Then back to 5 and on to seven. I really wouldnt go straight for a seven at a new legnth and speed.

Generally the further back you ride the faster you need to go and the more weight you need in the boat.

For example, my unweighted boat i can ride at 65 feet at 20-21 mph. Add 800 pounds and put me at 70-75 ft at 22.5-23mph. Throw in 1800 pounds of ballast im 75-80ft back at 23.5- to 24.5. For my boat 80 ft back seems to be the point at which things start to get worse. In other words, any more speed or line legnth behind my boat means you arent gaining anything. I dont know what that means for a gekko but maybe that gives you some direction?
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-19-2009, 8:46 PM Reply   
Noted Kevin. Rope length does vary by boat. If your best wake is at 65... ride 65.
Old    TFD (tommmyd)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-20-2009, 1:49 AM Reply   
Get GOOD at hitting double ups first! If not for the seven just for fun!
Old    MIKE HOX (mytahi)      Join Date: Dec 2008       03-20-2009, 5:02 AM Reply   
ROPE LENGTH AND BOAT SPEED ARE PERSONAL PREFERENCE MATT. ALTHOUGH THE ROPE TENSION IS GREATER AT SHORTER LENGTHS ON MOST BOATS. EITHER WAY IF YOU HAVE TS 3's AND 5's ON LOCK THE TRICK TO IT IS JUST COMMITMENT. YOUR HABBIT IS LOOKING AT THE BOAT WHEN YOU GET TO THE 3 AND SATYING THERE WHEN YOU DO FIVES. YOU HAVE TO GET OVER THAT HABBIT. YOU HAVE TO GO INTO THE TRICK THINKING SEVEN, AND ONLY SEVEN. IF YOU HESITATE, YOURE GOING TO FALL OR COME UP SHORT.

#1 - EDGE OUT AND EDGE IN THE SAME YOU WOULD FOR A 540.

#2 - WAIT JUST A LITTLE LONGER BECAUSE YOULL NEED MORE POP.

#3 - AFTER INITATING THE SPIN, KEEP YOUR HEAD GLUED TO YOUR LEAD SHOULDER.

#4 - WHEN YOU GET TO 5, PULL THE HANDLE TO YOUR BUTTCHEEKS AND GET OVER YOUR TOES, LOOK AT THE SHORE.

#5 - TRY AND GRAB THE HANDLE AS SOON A POSSIBLE TO AVOID GETTING YANKED OUT THE BACK AND CATCHING A BACK EDGE.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-20-2009, 6:03 AM Reply   
Matthew,

My first question is what kind of boat are you riding behing, 65 feet is a crazy short old school rope. Next i would have to say that you are correct after having 5s on lock yes the toe 7 is the next thing to work on. BS 5 are a beast all their own. I landed ts 7s before bs 5s.

For me the TS 7 is all about edging and weighting my feet. I know the second I leave the wake if I got the pop I needed to get the 7 around. I like to get off axis a bit on mine so I take what we call "the knife blade" edge into the wake. My approach is about the same as it is for a ts 5, a little wide and a lot faster tho, very sharpe and fast. A lot of my pop is off my front foot, so I would say that I am weighting my front foot much more than my back foot (maybe like 30 back 70 front). This brings up another important point, you have to weight to spin until your in the air, you can cheat it a bit by starting to rotate with you upper body a bit but not much, you will know your rushing if you get off axis backwards (feet first). As Mike Hox said you have keep your head pinned to your shoulder, this keeps you in the rotation. I always tell people to think of 7s as a 7, not a 540 plus an extra 180, this will cause you to spot your landing, take your head out of the spin and stop rotating. As M-Dizzle said it hurts when you do that. After your in the air follow Mikes #4 and #5 and you should have some good success. You will take some slams on the ts 7, they are not that bad mostly for me they are ejections for comming up short or not having my chest over my toes enough.

One last tip would be if you can do Off Axis five "taco syle" with your feet above your head your going to have to break a few habbits first, mainly not pulling down so hard on the rope, i.e. not getting so far off axis. The "taco" spins are really slow, I think they look dope with a big grab dont get me wrong, but your rotation is in slow motion. The ts 7 has a sweet spot, where your a little crunked out but not super off axis. I would suggest trying a million of them on the tramp, practice landing the blind and landing with a last handle pass. See whats most comfortable.

Let us know how it goes, good luck , hope some this is useful.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-20-2009, 7:14 AM Reply   
One thing I forgot to mentoin is Handle position, you have to have the handle pinned to your lead hip. This will help all the way through the seven because you cannot spin with your arms out.
Old    Matthew Spencer (canadian_waterboy)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-24-2009, 8:48 PM Reply   
Wow thanks everybody for the sick advice, can't wait for the ice to go out so I can get on the water and giv'er a try
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-26-2009, 12:59 PM Reply   
I do not do 7's, but have watched the bulk of the NorCal rippers working on them the last few years. As a coach the biggest "problem" I see is they do not pull hard enough through the first 3. They are so engrained to stop at the 5, that they do not push the first 3 hard enough. Most guys that can do legit 5's already have the spinning and handle mechanics down pat. So think about the trick as being a true 7 and not a 5 with a little extra spin.

GOOD LUCK! Grip it and Rip it

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