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Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-06-2009, 8:25 AM Reply   
I must say I love reading D.Cook Interviews. Sick rider, great out look on life, and one of the only pro's to post up trick tips on wakeworld.com, when I ask for help on something. Thanks Bro-

Anyway I have to agree with what he said about the industry needing more cash. Here's the Quote, " WW: If there was anything in this sport you could change, what would it be and why?

DC: I wish there was more money in the industry. It seems that almost every rider has a second job to just get by. I was working at Home Depot last winter and moved back home to be able to afford the summer. And I think that it's crazy that Keith Lyman doesn't have a boat sponsor. Someone give that guy a boat! Seriously."

I think its crazy that so many sick riders have to take on second jobs to afford wakeboarding. To hear that a rider of D.Cooks ability had to take a second job at Home Depot is ridiculous. I know so many riders in that same situation, ride by day, bartend, deliver pizza, or whatever by night. Now I know that wakeboarding is a CRAZY Niche sport, and that most people donít wakeboard or even have access to the sport in general. But its kinds sad to me to know that people Like D.Cook are struggling to hang in the industry. In snowboarding and skating there are "video" pro's, people who never compete in any contests and only make video sections, but still live "the Life." That is a rare thing in wakeboarding. I am not saying that there should be "video Pros" in wakeboarding (however I wish there were), I just wish that the truely gifted riders were given more of an opportunity to "make it" in this sport. I can think of at least a dozen riders who should wakeboard as a full time gig, but still grind out 40 hrs a week to afford this sport. I know I am ranting and I dont even know what my point is, I just wish that our sport was better recognized for the insane talent and dedicatoin it takes ride a wakeboard at a pro level.



(end rant)
Old    tom jack knotek (tom13knotek)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-06-2009, 8:44 AM Reply   
I actually think that your rant has some meaningful insight. I also believe wakeboarding has an issue as far as the money in the industry. Then you look around the corner and you see the numbers regarding how expensive it can be to participate in the sport. Wakeboarding has always been number one for me and for the simple reason I have decided to work hard and relentlessly to spread the sport as well as get the sport the recognition it truly deserves. I believe where the start to this madness will begin is the evolution of a cable park scene much like the one over in Europe. Once the sport gets more recognition because of the multiple cable parks in different locations introducing new wakeboarders, then the interest will follow hopefully giving the sport as a whole a lift including, boat riding. After all I would rather ride off the boat then the cable, but the boat ride consists of too many neccessities in the end.
Old    Jack (zach2orjack)      Join Date: Dec 2008       03-06-2009, 9:00 AM Reply   
IMO until we start seeing the price of inboard boats drop and decent wakeboard specific boats that are affordable like I/O's then this sport will not see the growth that it should. Cable parks would help but how many people are going to take the risk of putting in a cable park in an area where they don't know if they will ever make money? If we could buy a boat comparable to mc/bu/cc for 20-25k new then we would see tremendous growth. Even the bottom of the line v-drive Moomba is 35k or more new.

If there was a cable park within three hours of me I would be there at least on the weekends. It's a seasonal sport for most people who don't live in southern Florida, Texas, the Mid-West or Cali. I fell in love with it this past summer and now I'm looking for a boat but I can't afford a new one or even a nice used one right now. If I do buy one I'll give anyone a pull that wants to ride. Luckily I have a friend who has a X-1 that I'm going to try and ride with some this summer.
Old    Charles (wakecis)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-06-2009, 9:14 AM Reply   
considering the number of talented local riders, who kill it just like pros, why should florida rippers get money when everybody else sacrifices for it.

i think the industry is top heavy, meaning there are too many good riders compared to the number of people involved in the industry.

you can argue that people deserve money for representing their sponsors and pushing product, but that isn't big time money, that's a job.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       03-06-2009, 9:18 AM Reply   
The lack of money in wakeboarding really sucks but it definitely comes riding for gator compared to other board companies. My buddy Tim was the ONLY Gator rider that qualified for the pro tour 2 years ago and all they would pay for was his entry fee and travel. He got NO other money from them. He also had to work at the Goodyear Tires just to get by. Their only guy representing their company on the tour and he still has to live in the dorms at USF just so he can get the meal plan. It was pretty messed up, and if Tim had the time to ride instead of holding down his other job, he would have definitely finished higher up in the tour than he did. He just didn't have the chance to practice his runs as much as everyone else and even though he is suuuuuper consistent, the more tech tricks still weren't 100%.

Now most people know my feeling about Gator and how they treat their riders, at least the ones I know. It really makes me mad and I will never say anything good about their company even though i think the militant is a sick board. I would never tell a person to ride it. They told Tim that if he wanted to be in Transgression, he had to drop out of Architecture School because in order to shoot with them. They wouldn't fit him in with any shoots in Florida. After seeing the video, I'm glad that he didn't do it anyhow.

Seems like a similar situation with Derek Cook that they aren't paying him enough to survive. A guy like him would definitely get a better contract from one of the better companies out there being that he gets in the mags and is pretty well known.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-06-2009, 9:27 AM Reply   
It's the same in every other action sport. I'm sure there are hundreds of sick FMXers, Snowboarders, surfers, etc....that don't make money, but ride with the best of them.

I don't think it's just wakeboarding. All action sports in general.
Old    Charles (wakecis)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-06-2009, 9:40 AM Reply   
i disagree, it's not the number of good riders, its the number of good riders compared to the total number of riders. when a local kid, maybe 1-2 seasons in can land a handful of rolls and 3's, kinda takes the sparkle off pros.

considering the LARGE number of snowboarders or skateboards who fall their way down the bunny slope / sidewalk.....the pros look more impressive.

my honest opinion, not really me, but somebody in my position....i think i've been 6 months away from pro level riding for the last 8 years. it would take 6 months, house on the water, boat, gas (injury free). i think a lot of people are in my position.

if i'm right (feel free to disagree) and pro riding is within reach for so many people...well that's why "pro's" don't get paid more...they are replacable.

why do the early pros have so much exposure when newer riders don't. my opinoin is that there are a limited number of spaces in wakeboarding, to make a living. proving that you are as good as somebody who already has that space, doesn't mean you can replace them. you MUST be clearly better to even think that you can take a prime spot from an established pro. (today's standard, you must be able to do every trick, with extreme style, and not fall)
Old    Stanfield (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-06-2009, 10:32 AM Reply   
The average Joe that likes to ride has to pay 50+k for a boat, 400+ for a board, 350+ for a pair of boots, 150+ for a dang rope and handle, etc......you get my point. On top of having to work their 40 hours week and paying their other bills. I don't think there are too many people that are going to be crying rivers about someone in his mid 20's taking a part time job at Home Depot in order to afford his winter of riding 5+ sets a day 7 days a week in Florida.

Edit: And my point being, we ALL want to live "the life," but obviously there are a limited number of those spots. Gotta keep working and keep trying, but in the end, it is more likely that it will never happen. Those are just simply the breaks.

(Message edited by Stanfield on March 06, 2009)
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-06-2009, 11:03 AM Reply   
I have to agree, while there should be more money for the riders, the guy working at Home Depot to ride almost every day of the year is 'living the life' compared to me or any rider for that matter.

I would GLADLY trade spots with that guy for a year anytime.
Old    what what (snowman89)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-06-2009, 11:34 AM Reply   
Like others have said there are just way to many good riders out there for them all to have special privileges.

A lot of my friends think wakeboarding is cool and love when I take them out to ride but they couldn't even name off one pro or tell the difference between an amateur or a pro so paying a good wakeboarder big bucks to to represent product probably isn't a tenth as helpful as any other action sport.

Another thing is that it's hard for anyone to get smaller sponsorships in our industry from say board shops because there's a huge lack of them in wakeboarding compared to two snow/ski shops for every mountain and 5 skate shops for every city.

Also say a new ripper is better than the entire red bull team (A big bucks team), he won't have the notoriety as any of the other guys on the team and could never replace any of them.

I fell you Andy it would would be cool if you got to a certain level of riding and had it made but it just can't happen.
Old    murrayair            03-08-2009, 2:13 PM Reply   
I agree with what Jack said way up above. A lot of the reason wakeboarding is such a niche sport has to do with boat makers cranking out boats that cost the better part of a hundred thousand dollars. As long as prices are that high, wakeboarding will remain largely inaccessible to the average family.
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-08-2009, 5:26 PM Reply   
I think the winch/wakeskating will eventually change this. For the most part, IMO, wakeboarding has peaked as far as tricks go. Yeah, someone will add another 180 to something or do a "tuck knee," but there's a physical limit to what you can do on a wakeboard. I don't think it's gotten there yet, but it may be close. Plus, gotta have a big boat and a big lake. The winch opnes up new spots, and at 1/100th the cost of a new x-star, lots of people can get involved. I think we'll start seeing more winch only videos and a crazy amount of kids that are good on a wakeskate that may be able to make a living.
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-08-2009, 5:28 PM Reply   
and let's not forget the sesytic(sp?)/wakelab. We may see the return of wakeboarding to the x-games with a skate park style setup like that.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-08-2009, 6:24 PM Reply   
justin, winch only videos are already happening. "homeless" came out last year and "change is good" and "we're just skiing" is coming out soon.
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-08-2009, 8:59 PM Reply   
I know, thats why I said we'll start seeing more of them.

(Message edited by wakesk8er2 on March 08, 2009)
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-09-2009, 8:07 AM Reply   
I know this is an old rant by me, but how is it that the bulk of the money goes to the riders in Florida. California has long been the number 1 market financially for wakeboarding. Northern california has long spent more money on the sport than the bulk of the country combined. Why aren't companies heavily promoting it's west coast riders to support the spending? Like Mike Schwenne and DCook? These guys have LONG pushed the sport through their riding, actions, giving back to others, and generally great guys. It took years for these guys to get any kind of respect. In fact the bulk of photos and articles about these guys is because they arranged the photographers and videographers to put it out there, they did not wait for their sponsors to set it up. There are a TON of riders that are great in California that get NO coverage or sponsorships. As a rider/fan wouldn't you rather see a little more diversity and connect with pros from your area? No disrespect to any of the top guys, but I have seen so many photos of the same 5 guys that I am losing interest in seeing that person unless they are doing something really special. I would love to see more guys on the verge of the tour or actually on the tour showing off the unique stuff they are doing to get there. I would love to see an article on guys like D. Cook that is even more in depth, showing hard hard he has worked to get here, what it takes to stay even at this level, how he deals with money sponsors,etcc. Basically really understand what it takes to be a real-life pro. I know the bulk of the west coast top guys and most of the older school pros and most of them have been jipped on contracts, sponsors refusing to pay because something with the pic is wrong, sponsors straight dissing them or going out of business. I would love to see the trial and tribulations for these guys. Than people would really get what it takes to be at that level.

With today's economy and likely the next few years, these complaints and money will become a much bigger problem. I think to live through this companies will need to be truly innovative and heavily work on brand loyalty. If boards are the same every year with changed graphics, than it is a tough sell for some to "need" that new board. Something that is innovative that really can help improve your riding, will get them sales. In most other sports participants are very brand loyal. If you check out any kind of moto event and you will see people that will heavily defend which bike is better and the same guys for snowboarding. It seems like wake-boarding is much less about loyalty and more about what board actually works that season or what package deal is the best for the summer. This could be simply because the sport is just to young to develop that?
Old    murrayair            03-09-2009, 10:02 AM Reply   
Well said, Jason. Very good points.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-09-2009, 12:35 PM Reply   
Jason, I think i kind of understand the lack of promotion in California. The sport for most people in Northern California is very recreational. Ive worked at a couple shops and boat shows and almost every customer is still trying wake to wake and has no idea who any pros are (except parks). The core riders are a very small percentage and it seems that they are usually getting hooked up with boards somehow or maybe they are on the factory warranty flow team because they never seem to buy boards. I would assume that core riders are a bigger percentage of Florida's wakeboard population because people can ride all year and progress much faster. But i do want to see more diverse coverage in the wakeboard media. I think that riders might have set a precedent by always coming to Florida to get coverage and get better that the sponsors and media is expecting that to happen so they feel there is no reason to go to them.

And with changing boards every year, there are only so many new things you can add each year before they are just gimmicks to sell boards.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-09-2009, 12:46 PM Reply   
Agreed Jason and Mitch. Another big issue is the lack of board destruction in wakeboarding. Skateboarders generally snap decks frequently, snowboards loose pop, take core shots, blow rails, get wrecked on jib features, etc. Generally wakeboards last longer and are not required to be replaced as often.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-09-2009, 12:48 PM Reply   
M-Dizzle, but in the watersports industry people expect everything to be warrantied even if it is their fault their board or whatever breaks.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-09-2009, 12:53 PM Reply   
if i pay $400 for a pair of watsons and i blow out the side of them in one set you better believe i didnt get my moneys worth out of them. is that my fault of the mfgr?

i take 2 sets on a board, take a digger ripping the inserts out is that my fault for falling or the boards fault for being a POS??
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-09-2009, 12:59 PM Reply   
jr, i totally understand. I just think year or lifetime warranties are a bit long for manufacturer defects to show up. I think these super long warranties are hurting the sport. people on ww admit to get a new board every year because of warranty and havent bought a board in years, that is what i call the factory warranty flow team.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-09-2009, 1:21 PM Reply   
i break a board like every two weeks.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-09-2009, 1:31 PM Reply   
thats because you are badass. and now i totally want to buy an obrien. haha
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2009, 1:45 PM Reply   
Jason I agree with everything you say. That is true also for other sports too but the the bottom line is that the expense of the sport makes it less accessible to people and in smaller unknown sports, also it is hard to get media and markerters that are unbiased to promote other people in other parts of the country. Look at College football and the obvious bias in the media towards certain conferences or in some cases even teams. It happens in pro sports as well but is exacerbated by the fact that our sport has a smaller following and the athletes are less well known.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-09-2009, 2:17 PM Reply   
Wakeboarding just doesn't have the big dollar endorsement potential. I hope this doesn't hurt anyones feelings, but wakeboarding is a pretty lousy sport to watch if you are not already connected to the sport. All the 'flippy' 'spinny' things start to blend together for your average Joe and because there is such a looooonnnggg time between riders and falls, it is tough to watch an entire pro-tournament without getting distracted. Go to a pro-tourney, the spectators are barely spectating. Where is wakeboarding at X-games? arguably the single best place to market the wakeboarding image and personalities?

For more pros to get the dollars to enjoy 'the high life', dollars from outside wakeboarding equipment and boat manufacturers are going to have to flow into the industry. Deals with Coke, Anheiser, shoe manufacturers, and other mass market soft goods are when you hit pay dirt and then can you totally focus on the sport and enjoy the high life. Wakeboarding just doesn't have the fan base outside of wakeboarders that appeal to big dollar marketing departments.

I wish there was more money for the pros because I wouldn't want to travel all summer long going to different tourneys and demos without being able to save enough to get you through til next season. Not saying the struggling pro-life would be all bad, but think it would get old eventually.

(Message edited by bmartin on March 09, 2009)
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       03-09-2009, 2:46 PM Reply   
Yep, that sealed it for me. I won't be buying Obrien now hearing they break every two weeks. Thanks for the heads up Andy!
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-09-2009, 3:01 PM Reply   
Well Prior to Riding O'brien I broke a HL one a week.

200lbs, 6'2" = lots of torque
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-09-2009, 3:08 PM Reply   
Jason you make some Great POINTS BTW!
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-09-2009, 3:23 PM Reply   
My point with boards breaking included an inherent concept that I failed to mention.

Skateboarders can snap boards at a pretty low skill level(which generally relates to getting free stuff)...the same applies to snowboarders. IMHO given all things equal (# of days ridden, type of riding etc.) its easier to ruin a skate or snow deck than a wake deck if your not getting hookups/sponsor product etc.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-09-2009, 3:26 PM Reply   
very true. Gotta Land with your feel over those bolts!
Old    Adam Levitt (alevitt)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-09-2009, 3:32 PM Reply   
Everyone has made some valid points.
In the grand scheme of things, wakeboarding is nowhere close to the 3 main board sports (surf, skate and snow). It does have an extremely hardcore following, but I don't think the numbers are there.
The fact that you have to be a contest rider (and in the top 15 for that matter) is a clear indication of how small we really are. Take snowboarding for example: with the exception of Shaun White and few other pros, most of the riders aren't even competing but still earning healthy pay cheques. A guy like Travis Rice is known as the best rider in the world, but mainly spends his winters traveling the world shooting photos and filming. Yes, he does a few contests, probably to stoke his sponsors, but his main focus is outside of contest. And there's dozens more snowboarders in the same boat. I don't know skate as well as snow, but I do know the same goes for that sport.
To make money in wake you have to focus on competing, plain and simple. AND you have to place consistently in the top 15 (maybe even top 10). Lyman is the perfect example like everybody has mentioned. He straight up kills it, but doesn't even have a boat sponsor. That just wouldn't happen in other board sports.
The million dollar question is how do you change all of this. I wish I had the answer but I don't. I think the sport is getting more accessible and it is a step in the right direction, but we still have a ways to go.
My $0.02
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-09-2009, 3:33 PM Reply   
I probably have broke more boards (all brands) than anyone over the history of the sport. The reality is that boards are designed for the general public, not pros or people that do not fit the general profile. They have gotten a gizzlion times better, but they are foam after all. I only went through 2 mareks this season, that is a record. When I was buying boards in the begining I had purchased like 2 boards from each mfg because I was snapping them so often I needed several backups. The mfg's never once said NO MORE you fat ass, they just kept giving them to me. I have always tried to be super helpful and sell whatever companies I was aligned with because of some of those things. That being said, it has to hurt companies to warranty so much for such a long period of time. I would think 90 days or maybe 1 "season" or year. That way for people that get out 10 times a year they will find out if they have a bad product otherwise it will likely last a long time. For people breaking equipment regularly, they are going to do it regardless, so maybe there is a better way to handle it, like if you go through 5 of the same board, they bro form you at raw cost or something.
Old    Mike K (mike2001)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-09-2009, 6:00 PM Reply   
I think what it comes down to is, wakeboarders/skaters are paid as much money as they are able to generate for the sport. As much of a headcase as TO is, you put his name on a Bills jersey and it'll move merchandise and he'll sell seats, so the Bills pay him that much....same goes for Manny. Friends of mine who don't really wakeboard but follow the extreme sports have only really heard of the Bonifays and Harf. I would guess only a small minority of the wake population buys gear based on which pro uses it.

Also, I'm 6'2" 205 lbs, and been riding the same Hyperlite board since 2006 and loving it...I don't think bad mouthing a competitor is a good way to support a sponsor.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-09-2009, 8:25 PM Reply   
I feel for these manufacturers since so many riders are relentless in their demands (myself included). I knew the local boardshop guys on a first name basis from warranty returns. (SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHOPS!)

Everyone wants bindings with zero heal lift that fit tighter, and have great responsiveness. Then we complain when we rip the inserts out of a board from catching an edge because the boots didnt release....we want a board that is indestructible...as long as it weighs less than 8 lbs. We want the biggest wake possible, yet good gas mileage. Personally its like no matter what create/build do they cannot win. They make bindings that tighten as much as the wearer wants...someone ends up getting a massive concussion because they didn't release. They make boots that release and femurs are broken when one foot comes out. They make a board that's strong and its too heavy. They make a board thats super light and its too weak. It seems the whole product demand for the sport is a catch 22 some times.

I have ZERO firsthand knowledge of the board manufacturing process. However I would like to see someone come up with multi layer options with boards. That way lighter guys riding big boards can get the board "stock" and the heavier guys riding the same board can order it with an extra couple layers of glass.
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-09-2009, 8:47 PM Reply   
From what i understand is there are a handful of big name pros that have special boards made so they dont snap them everytime they go out. From what i understand, the flex boards are a lot harder to break. Not talking roams but slingshots in particular. However the flex is not for everyone. Humanoid is going to be releasing a stiff version of their boards, but should be similar to the flex version from what i understand. So if it is light and then like the flex version and super strong like a slingshot they might be on to something.

M Dizzle, totally agree with the idea of boards for heavier guys. They have womens boards and grom boards. A few boards for guys built like Rusty would be great. However, I think the bigger problem lies within the boots. 2 seasons ago i went through 6 pairs of boots. Same brand (HL)different models. Its scary to have a boot release due to the entire side blowin out on a landing. Back in the day i had a pair of Ultra suctions blow out and I tore my ACL in half. Ive heard all the brands have gotten better in the boot department though in the past two years.
Old    Tony Carroll CIE (ynot)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-09-2009, 9:03 PM Reply   
nobody wants to shoot the lesser know riders. and say you do get lucky enough to get a shoot with a decent photographer then you still have to get past the mags editor. and why put a photo of a rider in that doesnt have any sponsors that support the mag with advertising. (sorry for the bad grammar, im really tired)
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-10-2009, 12:56 PM Reply   
well put tony. because its such a small community with so few "pros" its basically all politics when it comes to photo's and exposure in the mags. thats why we see the same people in the mags every month with the same photogs name at the bottom of the shot....
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-10-2009, 1:13 PM Reply   
dang Ive never understood how some people break so many boards (not counting sliders). Ive never broken a board in 9 years of riding. Sure I was small when I started but Im 6'3" 185 now, I go into the flats, do some advanced tricks, and big double ups and Ive never broken a board or destroyed a binding to the point where its unusable. Maybe its just because the Lyman is so strong. Then again I have an 03 substance that had a hole down to the core that I patched and rode with for 2 more years with no problems... Are you guys breaking them by casing the wake or landing hard in the flats or what?
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-10-2009, 1:57 PM Reply   
I broke a Marius casing the wake and have ripped out many binding plugs on bad falls.
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-15-2009, 8:12 PM Reply   
Well I just put a little more money into the industry. Ordered Push Process and Detention 2012 last week and they showed up this morning, stoked. Maybe I can start breaking boards once I learn a thing or two from Detention haha.
Old    kvoman (kvoman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-16-2009, 10:00 AM Reply   
Yes, kudos to Derek Cook.

We signed our boys up for lessons with him last summer at Anderson Lake and they had a blast learning from him. Definitely a nice guy. Anyone in the SF Bay Area that want to take up wakeboarding or to advance their skills, give him a call.

I'll give Trail Dust BBQ a try too since they are his sponsors.

(Message edited by kvoman on March 16, 2009)
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-16-2009, 10:12 AM Reply   
How large are the advertising/promotion budgets of the top boat manufacturers? What is the % of ads compared with revenue and other expenses?
Old    Mike Powell (deltaratmike)      Join Date: Jun 2008       03-16-2009, 12:53 PM Reply   
Trail Dust is amazing. bbq chicken for life
Old    Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-19-2009, 12:31 PM Reply   
Trail Dust is amazing! Love the tri-tip myself. As for Derek I was actually surprised by his comment. I mean who doesn't love money and want more of it but he, like he said, rides with style. He could whore himself out to try being more commercial but he doesn't. Instead he just does everything bigger with more style and grabs. As for Cali recreational riders, yep thats me and most of my friends however after a day out with Derek wake to wake isn't a problem anymore! Take a lesson or go on a ride with the guy its sic how good he is.

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