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Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       02-26-2009, 8:03 AM Reply   
http://23e.epicboats.com/

check this out
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 8:08 AM Reply   
Now that is interesting can't wait for some detials on how it works
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-26-2009, 8:09 AM Reply   
Wow, thats progressive.
Old    derek (to_blind)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-26-2009, 8:18 AM Reply   
pretty hard to hate on 'em now... this is my new favorite boat, but i guess there is still some details to work out...wonder how much it is?
Old    derek (to_blind)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-26-2009, 8:19 AM Reply   
btw i have always liked Epic boats, and more importantly Epic wakes....but for some reason ppl. like to hate on em...
Old    chuck (chuckc983)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-26-2009, 8:22 AM Reply   
Nice headline - let's see it work. Considering that the best a car can currently do is maybe 50 miles on a charge (full electric) - I would guess that translates to about 10 min in a boat. Let's see some details. Regardless of how this first generation works - I applaud the effort.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 8:22 AM Reply   
This should not be a huge surprise since Chris Anthony is also involved in this company

http://www.aptera.com/index.php
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       02-26-2009, 8:25 AM Reply   
Very cool. It will be interesting to see what they price it at, and what it weighs.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-26-2009, 8:34 AM Reply   
Thats the thing though chuck. Its not fully electric. Its a hybrid. Very cool.
Old    chuck (chuckc983)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-26-2009, 8:40 AM Reply   
Hybrid cars recharge using momentum and braking -What charges the boat as it plows through water?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-26-2009, 8:42 AM Reply   
The engine.
Old    BMG (wackbag)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-26-2009, 8:45 AM Reply   
I'm sure all the big manufactures are looking at alternatives, but how cool is it that Epic is doing this!!!
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-26-2009, 8:48 AM Reply   
Whoop whoop!

Epic nay-sayers can suck on that.
Old    mendo247            02-26-2009, 9:12 AM Reply   
This is great!! Go Epic!
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-26-2009, 9:32 AM Reply   
Go Epic!
Old    JARROD (muckinaround)      Join Date: Dec 2008       02-26-2009, 9:39 AM Reply   
That's awesome.
Old    Jim Baker (jim33)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-26-2009, 9:40 AM Reply   
Does playing all those speakers decrease ride time?
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-26-2009, 9:50 AM Reply   
WOW
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/412222.html
I guessed 10 Years and it was less than 2.
Many people said it will never happen. Its time for them to eat some crow.

Hat's off to EPIC. That is simply awesome. That's the first boat in YEARS that I would want. I hope this is not just Smoke and Mirror's and that this really work's. How come there was no HYPE leading up 2 this. IMO this is the biggest thing to hit the industry in YEAR's and not a word or it???
Old    tj (tj_in_kc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       02-26-2009, 9:58 AM Reply   
i'm guessing they are using the lithium batteries....let's wait to see the price tag on this boat before you start the ticker-tape parade!

very neat as a concept boat though.
Old    BIZZ (bizz)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-26-2009, 10:01 AM Reply   
Here this should help everyone.

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090225006052&newsLan g=en
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-26-2009, 10:09 AM Reply   
Wow, my hat goes off to the people at Epic. For a small start up company to pull off an industry first as major as this is very impressive.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       02-26-2009, 10:14 AM Reply   
Wow that's impressive!!
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-26-2009, 10:43 AM Reply   
SO in the article it says it is entirely electric, and goes on to say it uses half the fuel. I guess I am lost. If it were entirely electric, wouldn't it use zero fuel?
Old    BIZZ (bizz)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-26-2009, 10:45 AM Reply   
If I remember right from testing. Don't hold me to this. There is a generator that keeps the batteries charged. The generator runs on fuel.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 11:04 AM Reply   
I Would asume that is true that it uses the same idea behind the new Chevy Volt
Old    miles (billyjodonjimbo)      Join Date: Apr 2006       02-26-2009, 11:05 AM Reply   
Pretty sure the drive train is an all electric system that has a generator to recharge the batteries. This means the system can run all electric, but when you are out on the water you can run the generator to keep the batteries charged.

I am assuming it is similar to a plug in hybrid car.
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 11:07 AM Reply   
Interesting. Without regenerative braking, can it really be more efficient than a gas engine? I'd guess they're using NIMH batteries. I forget the exact number, but Gary at Epic told me a year ago that they're using like 23 batteries.

This isn't a concept boat. They'll be selling them this year.
Old    John Gardner (roverjohn)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-26-2009, 11:10 AM Reply   
It's a meaningless announcement until they post real specs. Until then it might as well be April 1.
Oh btw, I just invented an over unity device that will power three homes and cost less than some other things.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 11:12 AM Reply   
My understanding is there are 3 technologies

Electric Car when the batteries go dead you are done

Hybrid Car has a gas engine and electric motor when the batteries are dead it runs of a tiny gas engine

The Volt technology uses and Electric motor all the time when the batteries go dead a
Generator kicks in to power the electric engine ( this is not new it has been used in Submarines and Train for years)

For the little I have read the Epic uses the Volt technology
Old    John Gardner (roverjohn)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-26-2009, 11:22 AM Reply   
It is not used in trains. Trains do not use storage batteries.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 11:27 AM Reply   
True enough on trains but they do use Electric motors with generators supply the juice. there would not be much point to batteries in a train.
Old    John Gardner (roverjohn)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-26-2009, 11:29 AM Reply   
If it's true enough why did you post it?
Old    retro fridge (retrofridge)      Join Date: May 2005       02-26-2009, 11:47 AM Reply   
Did a google search and found

www.fluxprop.com
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 11:57 AM Reply   
"If it's true enough why did you post it?'
Not sure how to respond to that??
Could I have been more clear sure. Are you just looking for an argument?
Old    John Gardner (roverjohn)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-26-2009, 12:03 PM Reply   
"Are you just looking for an argument?"

Not at all just that a lot of posters to this thread, and most other threads like it, really don't know how thing work so it's easy to blow smoke at a subject like this. Why did you post it if it isn't true?
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 12:11 PM Reply   
"Why did you post it if it isn't true?"
So you are looking for an argumnet.

I just posted it very quickly and should have been more clear that trains use electric motors and disel engines to power the electric motors. The Volt and Epic tech goes one step further and gives you batterie operation before you go to the generator
Old    rzap (zap)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-26-2009, 12:36 PM Reply   
"It is not used in trains. Trains do not use storage batteries".

Apparently they did in 1912

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9905E7DF133CE633A25755C2A96F9C94 6396D6CF
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-26-2009, 12:40 PM Reply   
COOL

Now that is not new

I was right and did not even know
Old    Dave (davomaddo)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-26-2009, 12:46 PM Reply   
Is this a Volvo system?
I would imagine that Epic worked with someone else to invent this thing.

1 hour of wakeboarding is about how long my morning set is, and that is usually the most gas consuming time in my boat. The rest of the time is spent putting around. This system would save a ton of gas money.
Old    B Nall (bnall)      Join Date: Jan 2005       02-26-2009, 12:46 PM Reply   
Who gives a crap? Epic wakeboats is the shiznit!
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       02-26-2009, 12:50 PM Reply   
This is pretty huge!! Here are some pics and a video.

http://wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=2073
Old    Inigo Montoya (eyedvride)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-26-2009, 12:55 PM Reply   
How bout a blunt nose option for a 21' boat for length restricted waterways :-)
Old    jaubrey (jaubrey)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-26-2009, 1:00 PM Reply   
I'm just really really impressed. Epic is just proving to be a great asset to the industry. Although I love my Mastercraft, there's no doubt that I will look at an Epic for my next boat.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-26-2009, 1:02 PM Reply   
Very cool innovation. I think it will be a success as long as the price is reasonable.
So many things are possible, just too expensive to produce.
Way to go !!Good job for breaking the ice.


Still a ugly boat and even uglier tower.
Old    Jason Howard (green_johnson)      Join Date: Jul 2005       02-26-2009, 1:49 PM Reply   
so an electric boat needs batteries right? batteries are heavy, arent they? Extremely heavy is good, isnt it?

Why hasn't anyone tried this before?
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       02-26-2009, 1:49 PM Reply   
What Florida dealer????
Old    Stephen Higgins (srh00z)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-26-2009, 1:55 PM Reply   
I am surprised that they have been able to bring something like this to market. They are definitely a company committed to innovation. I have followed the Aptera project over time and it is clear that Chris Anthony and those involved are a very bright group who are also capable of thinking outside the box. I am sure the boat will be pricey, but it is a big step. I am curious to see all of the specs and see it in action. I wonder how big the generator is.
Old    Daniel (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-26-2009, 2:14 PM Reply   
Actually diesel / gas over electric is a old idea that is just gaining popularity. Even CAT is gone to diesel over electric. Instant torque and very linear power curves. Actually it could be very good for allowing the designers to move the motors / props to the best locations for the wake. Or even using twin screws for mobility and performance. I see it being a industry changing move if it comes out well.
Old    lowend (lowend)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-26-2009, 2:24 PM Reply   
My next boat will be an EPIC. Not a hybrid. but the 23V without question! I know there are people who still hate them. But I couldnt care less.
Old    John Gardner (roverjohn)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-26-2009, 2:30 PM Reply   
Have they actually made it to market yet or have they just released a blurb to the press? All I see is a blurb because no one seems to be able to provide real specs for the boat. I'm trying not to be a naysayer but even the specs that Epic does provide don't really make sense to me. Any chance Epic can actually produce this boat for anyone to see? Seems to me this is right about when they should be taking orders.
Old    Dhtige Hill (dh03r6)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-26-2009, 2:30 PM Reply   
That is a long time coming. Good for epic i really hope they make it.
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-26-2009, 2:39 PM Reply   
Sweet, I've never been a fan of Hybrids, but the tech is improving significantly from the early attempts. Way to go Epic, changing the world of wakeboats.
Old    Mike (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       02-26-2009, 2:39 PM Reply   
Great job Epic. I wonder if those numbers are for full ballast?
Anyone know?
Old    B Nall (bnall)      Join Date: Jan 2005       02-26-2009, 4:02 PM Reply   
They are taking orders on them and they've already sold a few i've been told... And I think the thing is gonna have dual props! Can't wait to see this in person!

(Message edited by bnall on February 26, 2009)
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-26-2009, 4:23 PM Reply   
Well now you can see what a smaller company can do because they have less restrictions.

I wish them the best on this because these are the types of risks that need to be taken right now.

Any retrofit kits coming??
Old    Scott Legge (w00taz)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-26-2009, 4:44 PM Reply   
Does it come w/ a giant onan diesel generator for "G"'s stereo?
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-26-2009, 5:08 PM Reply   
So sweet, I'm glad somebody is taking the initiative on this! The real wakeboarders understand the bigger picture and why this is so important.

Just picturing a shored station with a solar charger and spending low coin on gas has me stoked

Is John Gardner for real? I thought he was a d-bag based on the tone of his posts, then his email turns out to be johnsbmw@yahoo.com, this stuff can't write itself.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       02-26-2009, 5:47 PM Reply   
Wow! Put this nay sayer to shame. I didn't think that this could be done in a way that would significantly reduce fuel consumption. I expect at idle speeds the IC engine could turn off saving gas.

I bet that using half the fuel for a 4 hour set doesn't include recharge power back at the garage, but still that's an amazing claim.

I wakesurf all the time. a there hour wakesurf set without spending a dine on gas would be the bomb. Two props could be very good for wakesurfing, especially if they can be independently controlled.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-26-2009, 6:10 PM Reply   
I was one of the people saying it couldn't happen and I am glad I was wrong.
Anyone have a price yet?
Old    AndY (andy13)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-26-2009, 6:18 PM Reply   
EPIC WAKEBOATS

Change we can believe in...
Old    Hayes (hayes)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-26-2009, 7:04 PM Reply   
I know I will get blasted but I am still a little skeptical. I don't think the price will ever provide a reasonable ROI. I bet the battery pack will costs thousands and need to be replaced in 3-4 years

Why not just put in a reasonably priced diesel? Diesels average about 30-40% better fuel economy than gas engines while under load and have way more torque.
Old     (the_duke)      Join Date: Nov 2006       02-26-2009, 7:13 PM Reply   
Interesting! If itís so, anyone who is considering a Epic, or for that matter has a deposit on an Epic, should probably hold off a couple of months just to get the scoop on this thing. I could see a gasoline powered Epic taking a significant depreciation hit after this is released. It would be similar to buying a closed bow direct-drive just before V-drive wake boats came out. I hope there going to share this technology!
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-26-2009, 8:10 PM Reply   
hey "G" I heard about it like a year and a half ago. To be honest i thought it could be done, I just never could see it go into production this fast. I thought it would be a prototype. Id really like to see this in a 21 foot model if they could get everything to fit in it. So this boat should weigh more, does that mean an even bigger wake? Id really like to see how they distributed all the extra weight. can we just go ahead and give away the innovation of the year award now?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-26-2009, 8:20 PM Reply   
I was a doubter. Now I believe!
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       02-26-2009, 8:38 PM Reply   
Walt yeah the ROI on hybrid cars is even a tough one. When the batteries die what do we do etc? This is awesome and I like Epic boats and the fact they are fighting an up hill battle and coming out with something like this when we know CC and MC have the money to try. We shall see how well it works.
Old     (fatsac)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-26-2009, 8:45 PM Reply   
I'm not a real sentimental type but this had me thinking...and I try not to do that too much! What a cool time in technology we live in. Despite all the crap in the world, there is still people working to improve what we have to enjoy. Props to epic (pun) for pushing this through and I hope it works. Epic could fart and everyone would talk about it.They're doing something right!
Old    vision (bobenglish)      Join Date: Mar 2008       02-26-2009, 9:12 PM Reply   
Hats off to Epic. The devil is in the details so we will need to see the price and performance numbers. But, they have jumped ahead of the other manufacturers in tech.

But damn, that is one ugly boat.
Old    Steve Jones (steve_jones)      Join Date: Jun 2006       02-26-2009, 9:55 PM Reply   
This is sooo cool. Can you imagine saving 50% in fuel? That and it opens up some of those waterways that are so hard to get onto.....mmmmmmm
Old    AndY (andy13)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-27-2009, 12:15 AM Reply   
say you could run it on all electric...

could you drive your boat on lakes that dont allow engines?
Old    Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-27-2009, 1:27 AM Reply   
Way to go Epic. I have been telling Wakecraft for over a year that a hybrid boat is the answer to $4 dollar a gallon gas prices. This just goes to prove that smaller companies are able to adapt and change much quicker then bigger ones.
Old    Ted Dreaver (dreevs)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-27-2009, 6:25 AM Reply   
They just got my attention. I've been looking to buy and Ive been hesitant to pull the trigger due to the economy - then this rolls along. Makes me kinda happy I waited! Good job Epic!
Old    Carl Philippon (kernaltao)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-27-2009, 9:37 AM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMC_0zPWQYc


Didn't see anyone else post this, yet, so thought I would. Check out the touch screen control.
Old    Mike K (mike2001)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-27-2009, 9:37 AM Reply   
As I said in the other thread, congrats to Epic for being the first. Another mfgr may come along and do it better, but Epic is taking the biggest step in doing it first.
Old    Mike Porter (mikeporter2000)      Join Date: Oct 2005       02-28-2009, 11:36 PM Reply   
That may be the ugliest boat I have ever seen. Seriously.
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       03-01-2009, 7:36 AM Reply   
Man I just don't understand the ugly boats comments I think that thing is pretty damn nice looking.
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-01-2009, 9:23 AM Reply   
Maybe Mike is implying that the front of the boat, nose, and maybe the rear of the boat where all the speakers are, is not appealing. Those are the only two things that I hear the most on here.
Old    dave G (dguimbellot)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-01-2009, 10:33 AM Reply   
I'd like an electric boat with no gas option to really simplify things.

We usually only ride for <1 hour because it's a private lake. Lead batteries would actually be much less expensive than NiMH and could hold a longer charge.

Ideally I could put a photovoltaic panel on the roof of the dock and charge it all the time! Or I could do a quick charge off the 120v.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-01-2009, 11:04 AM Reply   
Personally I would have absolutely no interest in a all electric boat or Car They are totally useless for anything but sort trips and short sets.

"However a Ideally I could put a photovoltaic panel on the roof of the dock and charge it all the time! Or I could do a quick charge off the 120v." or like ganstar said in a previous post.

"Just picturing a shored station with a solar charger and spending low coin on gas has me stoked "

This would work well for most people since unlike a car the boat tends to sit on the lift for days at a time.
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       03-01-2009, 1:13 PM Reply   
there is also speed boat which runs on human fat
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       03-01-2009, 1:16 PM Reply   
Huh... Sounds a lot like that guy lifetimewarranty had a peek into the future...

I love being right! (ouch - I just hurt my arm patting myself on my back.

KC engineers - you've been owned.

(gangstar - John is a total a$$ - I seriously doubt he is a real engineer and my KC reference is to him and some other d-bag engineer from KC who was giving me a ton of crap about hybrid boats on two other strings. I posted Cris Crafts new hybrid boats that are about the same size of a wakeboat and they were pretty much owned then. I am surprised he is still opening his mouth)

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