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Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-22-2009, 11:51 AM Reply   
Gents,
I'm new to the forum and I started wakeboarding around 2 years ago. Now I'm not satisfied with my boat what I have today (a I/O with a tower)anymore. So I want to spend some money into an "real" wakeboard boot. Yesterday I was at the Detroit Boatsshow and had from the discussions with all the dealers every boot of the named ones seems price wise more or less the same(depends a bit on the options). from your expirience, if you look at material, quality, performance, price what are the pro's and con's of the listed ones. It would be really great to get some more information, and maybe another point of view.

thx for help and support
philipp
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-22-2009, 12:05 PM Reply   
For size reasons I would say no to the X-1...they are tiny inside, and the seating is foolish, even if it is bigger than the VTX it feels smaller.

From there it is kind of a toss-up, I'm a nautique guy so just off of past experience I would go 210... to me the wake is perfect.
Old    pete c (saceone)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-22-2009, 1:27 PM Reply   
if you can spend a few coins, get the 210.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-22-2009, 10:20 PM Reply   
Get the 210 out of those four. The X1 is too small, the VTX is too expensive, the launch 21 is a sweet boat, but the 210 is the clear winner in this bunch.

(full disclosure: I've ridden behind the other three but not the launch. I own an X1 and if you are willing to spend your morning filling ballast it's wake is unbeatable. It needs to be dumped, and in all honesty it's too damn small inside if you ride with 5+ all the time. That said my next 10 boats will be 205Vs)
Old    dielawn smith (deathcharge)      Join Date: Nov 2008       02-23-2009, 4:34 PM Reply   
210 is a great boat but is way too expensive.
X-1 too small, great wake but terrible interior. and way too expensive for what you get.
Supra 21 is probably the best way to go in terms of dollar, but they feel cheaper.
Go with the VTX, great wake, great quality, price is a little stiff as well but you feel you get what you pay for with the malibu.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-23-2009, 4:46 PM Reply   
1. 210 if you can swing it
2. Supra
3. VTX
4. X1
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-23-2009, 7:00 PM Reply   
Coming from an I/O you will love any of those boats. I agree with most others here and say the 210 if you have the cash. I own one so I am little biased of course. Best boat on the market 21' and under by far. It cost a little more for a reason. You also get two more years of warranty with CC so factor that in as well.
Old    Brad Chesley (bchesley)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-23-2009, 8:01 PM Reply   
210
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-23-2009, 8:13 PM Reply   
Sent you email.
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       02-23-2009, 8:18 PM Reply   
Is a 210 that much more than the other boats? 210 is what low 50's
Old    Mike (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       02-23-2009, 8:51 PM Reply   
I personally wouldn't rank the X1 last. In my opinion if your looking at wake performance as your primary deciding factor, I would think that the x1 would be closer to the top. Me personally, I would go
210
X1
Supra
VTX
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-23-2009, 9:48 PM Reply   
X1 base is 43k
Supra base is 46k
VTX base is 56k
210 base is 58k

somebody should confirm these, but I think they are right. Mike, the 210 and the X1 have the nicest wakes of the bunch, but the 210 is a roomier boat. That said you could buy the X1 and a 2005 GMC Yukon for the same price as the 210.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-23-2009, 10:18 PM Reply   
x1 - msrp = 53k
http://www.onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=23436

21v - msrp - 49k
http://www.nisswamarine.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?veh=42370&

VTX - msrp - 55k
http://www.skierspier.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?veh=56942&CatDesc=Boats&Mod elYear=2008

210 - msrp - 59k
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-24-2009, 5:49 AM Reply   
If you can find a left over 08 210 Team in your area you'd be looking at mid to high 50's depending on options. 09 210 Team will be 60K-65K depending on options.
Old    ross jackson (liquidforce12)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-24-2009, 7:49 AM Reply   
210 in my neck of the woods left over 08 for 53,900
Old    corey king (snowboardcorey)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-24-2009, 8:02 AM Reply   
Of the bunch I've only been in the X-1 but I've been in it a lot. (I sell MC too, just an FYI) From a wake standpoint it is awesome, I agree that its a little smaller interior but we routinely have about 8 people in the boat without any issues and that includes about 2500lbs of ballast (stock is fine but more is better!)

Give them all a look and give their dealers a look too. From a service standpoint you're going to need them one day and its nice to know that they stock parts, hire qualified techs and have the ability to actually service your boat in a timely fashion. It's a real bummer when a simple part keeps you off the water while your deaeler orders it.
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-24-2009, 8:03 AM Reply   
$54K for a new 210 is a deal. Is that a Team?
Old    Nick (bird_dog0347)      Join Date: Feb 2006       02-24-2009, 10:25 AM Reply   
Keep in mind, the Supra price includes a tandem trailer... do the others for that price (msrp)?
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       02-24-2009, 11:18 AM Reply   
All are good boats after a 1 1/2 years of checking and testing I went with the 210. Best warranty,wakes,reliability, [JD power award 8 years in a row] and resale if you can swing it
go for the 210 .
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-24-2009, 11:42 AM Reply   
You will be happy to own any of them. All are solid performers and it is a good day to ride behind any of them. If price was not a consideration, I would go 210. It seems to be the most efficient hull to build a wake and requires the least supplemental ballast. Also like the stadium seating.

I would check out some used models or some leftovers. I have seen some CRAZY prices recently.
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-24-2009, 5:17 PM Reply   
thanks for all your comments and information. it's really highly apprechiated.. thanks guys
Old    Brian (noles_fan)      Join Date: Mar 2006       02-24-2009, 5:28 PM Reply   
I would go with the 210, you can find some really good deals if you search around and are willing to drive.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-24-2009, 6:11 PM Reply   
Fort Fremont Marine in Wisconsin has a new 210 for SUPER cheap...check out their site/call them up....it was a crazy good deal
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-25-2009, 7:21 AM Reply   
Phillip

Here is a side-by-side wake comparison 10 page reprint from wakeboarding magazine. Pictures are worth a 1000 words.
http://www.supraboats.com/images/09_Wake%20Comparisons.pdf

You will find that Supra and Moomba has some of the best cost of ownership and lowest % of depreciation. Look at NADA
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-0-5601-928-994-60564&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5693&gc=mr&gtc=mr&any=0
Old    dielawn smith (deathcharge)      Join Date: Nov 2008       02-25-2009, 12:42 PM Reply   
Some of the prices listed above are absurd. try tacking on another 6-12k for each boat to include taxes, registration, and all the other crap your going to want to add to the boat.
Old    Mark (mvl)      Join Date: May 2004       02-25-2009, 5:34 PM Reply   
I'd go X-1 all the way. remember you're not satisfied with your boat because of some of the performance but most importantly the wake. So based on some of the above comments and that the X-1 was the old X-Star...I mean everyone would admit it has a killer wake. Maybe not as much room as the others, but fun to drive. With the exception of the VTX, the others are all older molds that are still around because they're all great. 210 is a nice option as well, but X-1 wake is awesome.
Old    Mattt (motorcitymatt)      Join Date: Feb 2007       02-25-2009, 5:46 PM Reply   
Phillip, fellow Michigander here. Seriously look at MB's line. I was in your situation two years ago. Shopped ALL the inboard boat sales in Southeast MI (for almost 24mo.)Test drove over a dozen. MB's new for this year widebody really catches my eye. Aquasports Marine in Fenton is over the top in customer support. I spoke with Mike Brendel of MB Sports (the big cheese himself!) before placing my order. Try that with MC, BU, etc. The pumpless intergrated ballast rocks... I could go on and on, but my little man is tugging at my elbow so gotta go. Feel free to contact me with any questions... Matt
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-25-2009, 6:21 PM Reply   
The VTX is a sick ass boat. That is what I ride on a consistent basis. Almost as big inside as the VLX, and the wake is top notch.

The Supra would be my first choice however. Plenty of room, plenty of power, and the wake is bitching. Just put a bunch of weight up front though. Customer satisfaction is up near the top, and the are priced well.

Good luck!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-25-2009, 6:21 PM Reply   
I second Matt P. I shopped for over two years... not because it took me that long to find a boat I liked (let's be honest, I like them all) but mainly because it just took me that long to bite the bullet.

Anyway, I was 100% sure I wanted MC or Malibu... until I saw MB B52V TWB at the show. I was intrigued by how big it was inside for a 21' boat. And I have always been intrigued by Pure Vert ballast. So I drove it on the water... that sealed the deal. It's amazing! I am no expert on wakes, but this one is VERY big. And it fills in a snap. I was also very impressed by the little extras that MB includes as standard: 343hp standard, two batteries, Zero Off, billet speaker grills, sub, two amps, swivel racks, Clarion head unit on drivers side, and the thickest vinyl in the industry. All good stuff.

I did a complete review of MB B52V TWB vs. Malibu Wakesetter VTX on this forum. Check it out.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/664773.html?1235285589


Finally, I should mention, I got a personalized thank you e-mail from Mike Brendal himself just this morning. Nice touch! I'm just a dad with kids buying a family boat... the definition of average customer. And yet that makes two times I've talked to Mike during this process.

Check out my boat in my profile!
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-25-2009, 6:23 PM Reply   
Don't forget about Wakecraft
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-27-2009, 4:55 PM Reply   
gents,

for all your comments and proposals. The first offer i got for an 08 MC x1 was 72k. Hello? isnt't that a bit high? I mean i choose a lot of options but still if i remove all the "nice to have's" im still in the mid 60ies. Keep you guys posted.

Philipp
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-27-2009, 4:57 PM Reply   
gents,

thanks for all your comments and proposals. The first offer i got for an 08 MC x1 was 72k. Hello? isnt't that a bit high? I mean i choose a lot of options but still if i remove all the "nice to have's" im still in the mid 60ies. Keep you guys posted.

Philipp
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-27-2009, 5:01 PM Reply   
that seems crazy high. what kind of "nice to haves"? it's been a while, but i would think high 50's would get you nice options. heck, 60's and you're into and X-2.
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-27-2009, 5:10 PM Reply   
Tower speakers w/lights, rack lights 1 bar(3lights back), amp and sub, depthfinder w/airtemp.

hm....
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-27-2009, 5:14 PM Reply   
sounds high to me. was that out the door or before t&l?

(Message edited by brucemac on February 27, 2009)
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-27-2009, 5:17 PM Reply   
out of the door, but still much too high to be competitive..
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-27-2009, 6:51 PM Reply   
Philipp, did he at least say he was going to throw in a jar of vasoline to ease the pain a little. I would go tell the MC dealer that if they even want consideration they need to knock of at least 15g's. That is stupid. You can get a new past model Xstar for that OTD I bet.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-27-2009, 7:58 PM Reply   
Phillip, I concur with the others... that's too much for an X-1.

I was just looking at X-1's before I bought my MB. Here is one that I considered very carefully. Other than the fact that it doesn't have MCX, it is very loaded and only 100 hours or so. I spent hours looking over this boat... hard to distinguish from brand new. Current price is $40k (ignore the $42.5k list price). I bet you could get them to take off more.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2007-MASTERCRAFT-X-1-94520610

Also, my local MC dealer has several leftover '08 X-1's that they'd be happy to sell... probably for not much more than this used one.

Bottom line... I wouldn't pay more than $50k for brand new loaded X-1. I wouldn't pay more than $40k for lightly used one. Heck, for $30k or less you could probably get an '03-'05 X-2 (same exact boat).
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-28-2009, 11:09 AM Reply   
Yes, that is exactly what im thinking as well..

;-)
Old    Mark (mvl)      Join Date: May 2004       02-28-2009, 1:16 PM Reply   
just sent you a message. On second thought that has to be someone playing the msrp game.
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-28-2009, 2:41 PM Reply   
72K for an X-1? That is insane.

09 X-1 at my local boat show was 47K, and it was loaded up pretty good.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-28-2009, 3:15 PM Reply   
that sounds more like it
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-28-2009, 3:56 PM Reply   
A good price on an X1 is under $50k loaded with an MCX.

(Message edited by joe_crawley on February 28, 2009)
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-28-2009, 4:10 PM Reply   
That would be a fair price from my point of view...
Old    wiz            02-28-2009, 4:18 PM Reply   
it amazes me that so many people are pushing the x1. there is no way in hell i would buy one of those. its too small. way too small. and overpriced. i would purchase the bu/210/supra way before the tiny x1.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-28-2009, 5:02 PM Reply   
it amazes me that so many people bag on its size--especially nautiqe ownners. to each their own.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-02-2009, 9:47 AM Reply   
chuck, $45k for a loaded boat that puts every other wake to shame (sans Xstar, X15 and 210) isn't overpriced
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-13-2009, 6:14 PM Reply   
Ha, I'm very exited, due to the fact that I try to see the Malibu and Nautique dealer tomorrow;-)
Old    wiz            03-13-2009, 6:30 PM Reply   
call me biased, but i would take the supra over the x1 any day of the week. they both use indmar motors. they have comparable warranties last i checked. they use the same gelcoat. i just cant see spending that much & being cramped up. i've owned a bunch of supras & would put them agaist any other boat out there. if i had to choose another brand it would be nautique, but my local dealer treats me incredibly well so there is no reason to venture out. i had a 21v & loaded it with 3k of ballast with all of it hidden. try doing that in a x1. u need atleast 2k in a x1 to get a good wake & thats not possible without having fat sacks laying all over the place (& taking up more room in an already small boat). having said that, i will say that i think the x1 has the best wake of all the MCs.

good luck with your decision! they're all great boats! we all think the brands we own are the best (we should considering how much u pay for these gas hogs)!
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-13-2009, 6:51 PM Reply   
good luck philipp!
Old    Andrew Carnacchi (07launch22ssv)      Join Date: Feb 2007       03-13-2009, 6:58 PM Reply   
philipp come see us @ club royale at the show we have a beautiful 21V on the floor our factory rep is in town and we are being very aggressive for new sales.
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-13-2009, 10:15 PM Reply   
Once you get to the Nautique dealer your decision will be made.

Have fun and good luck.
Old    Mattt (motorcitymatt)      Join Date: Feb 2007       03-14-2009, 5:33 PM Reply   
Make sure to check out the MB's while your at the boat show. Seriously
Old    Philipp (laplace)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-14-2009, 8:42 PM Reply   
Guys,

it was a really exiting day on the Boatsshow in Novi. I have seen all, the Nautiques, Mastercrafts, Supras, MB's, Malibu's and last but not least Calabria's. It was great to talk to all the representative of the different companies and sit in all of their boats and compare. But honestly the decision is not getting easier.. now the next step will be to visit all the shops and collect some numbers.. i'll keep u posted;-)
Old    Derik Heikoop (wakecourage)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-16-2009, 8:10 AM Reply   
VTX...by far the best wake out of the bunch in my opinion. I ride behind my friends X1 all summer long and its crampy inside and we can never seem to get a consistant wake. Also the vtx has lots of room and top notch quality. 210 is a good quality boat but not a fan of the wake. Supra has impressed me lately by design and looks but i have never ridden behind one.

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