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Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-06-2003, 11:12 AM Reply   
Anyone know of a better price on PP wakepro then $1099. I'm gonna get one in the next week or so but I remember it being cheaper?
Thanks All
Old    k2_mn            05-06-2003, 11:23 AM Reply   
Its like $700 on perfectpass.com
Old    sub_zero            05-06-2003, 11:35 AM Reply   
Rob,
I want to get a Wakeboard Pro this week also. My wife is going to be away and I need to get it into the boat before she gets back:-) Do ya think she'll notice? I will check on a price from my local dealer. Maybe we can get a deal if we buy two. Anyone else want one?

Hey Craig,

That price is for the Wakeboard Cruise, not the Pro. Part of the difference is that the cruise cannot be adjusted for the performance of your boat. If you have a heavily weighted boat then the pro is a better choice cause it can be set as to how fast the throttle responds to requests from the control unit. If your boat weight changes (eg., one day you have 3 people and the next you have 5 or one person wants full ballast and another doesn't want any) the pro can quickly be adjusted to compensate for that.
Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-06-2003, 11:45 AM Reply   
Terry,
Let me know you price and I'll check with the deals out here!

Old    jmccallum            05-06-2003, 11:48 AM Reply   
I may interested as well.
I have to check my wife's travel plans first.
Old    chris_hargis            05-06-2003, 11:51 AM Reply   
MAn I admire you guys. My wife is away in Alaska right now, but she would absolutely kill me if I got that without her knowledge. Since she does the bills, there would be no way to hide it from her.
Old    jmccallum            05-06-2003, 12:04 PM Reply   
Admire is the wrong word Chris...

You should see the scars...

With all respect, I find it takes forever to convince my lovely bride to agree to new technology. For example, she thought I was nuts buying FRS radios for our ski holidays. Now she really likes them and uses all the time at the cottage. We upgraded from a phoneline/modem to DSL Light… she almost killed me. But now that we have the phone line back and it doesn’t take forever to surf/download …she loves it.

It’s all about your budgeting/decision making process.

P.S. I rarely go wild and buy much stuff at all. And anyone who knows me knows I am as cheap as you can get with a Scotsman.

P.P.S. Never hide... always (fight) be up front about it. “Oh that thing… yes it is new!”


(Message edited by jmccallum on May 06, 2003)
Old    chris_hargis            05-06-2003, 12:07 PM Reply   
I'll just start dropping my little hints about it since she always complains about trying to keep the speed steady when pulling me. I think it is harder with an outboard, but it is possible to put PP on the outboard. I muight be able to talk her into the Wakeboard Cruise since it is the cheapest system. I will have to wait until she gets back to start working on her.
Old    sub_zero            05-06-2003, 12:07 PM Reply   
Hey Chris,

Your right. I should just be a man about it and tell her that I am going to buy one of these things. I mean, it's for her benefit anyway. It's like a safety issue. How can I be expected to keep all the kids under control in the boat, watch the speed and still watch where I'm driving while she boards? That is just too much to ask. Even though she only boards about twice a year on the hottest days in August, it's still a risk right? I should have learned from the last two boats I bought, and motorhome, that buying first and begging forgivness later just isn't an option:-)

But in your case Chris, I think all of us agree that the safety issue is the way to go.
Old    jmccallum            05-06-2003, 12:17 PM Reply   
So we’re agreed the strategy is
1. Safety
2. Her comfort
3. then some minor benefit to the guy on the end of the rope.

And if she still doesn’t like it … run like hell!

Chris,
I'm think the WB Pro model for the tuning features. I have an I/O an it may not want to hold speed once I finish upgrading the ballast. I'm wonder if an O/B would need the extra tuning features?

I still remember WB behind a 16" runabout with a 130 Yamaha O/B on it. It was really hard to keep a constant speed until you hit about 50mph or so
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       05-06-2003, 12:18 PM Reply   
i have the cruise and I love it. I could not see spending the extra money for the display since i tune the speed to riders preference and wake size.
Old    chris_hargis            05-06-2003, 12:22 PM Reply   
I think the nicest thing about th epro would be the ability to set the speed before you start out. That would be nice for changing speeds between myself and my son, but heck how hard can it be to push a button. I would probably end up witht eh cruise due to the $300 difference. Then again, if she really finds it hard to control the speed it wil be an easier sell.
Old    jmccallum            05-06-2003, 12:33 PM Reply   
You're probably right TY. I just worry because Chris and I have poor mans ski boats and MIGHT need to adjust the responsiveness. However, I'm just speculating.

Anyone have a cheap boat (I/O or O/B) and Wakeboard cruise out there?
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       05-06-2003, 12:36 PM Reply   
talk to barry (wastemore).
he had a cruise on a 4 cylinder bayliner and said it was awesome.
Old    sub_zero            05-06-2003, 12:50 PM Reply   
Ty, you are right. I wouldn't buy it just for the display either. When I called PP they said that the "tuning" being refered to is an internal factor (called KDW factor) that the Pro has and the Cruise doesn't. It allows the operator to "tune" PP as to how fast the throttle responds to requests from the control unit. Too high a KDW factor and the unit will always be adjusting or surging, too low a KDW factor and the unit may not respond fast enough to throttle requests. When they explained it to me, it sounded like a good thing to be able to control depending on boat weight. I have no experience with PP so I only am conveying what I was told. Maybe if the boat was smaller and at a constant weight that feature is not importand. What size and weight is your boat?

Anyone else have experience here?
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       05-06-2003, 12:53 PM Reply   
i run 800 lbs in ours and barry runs about 1500-1700 lbs with the cruise with beautiful success.
Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-06-2003, 1:35 PM Reply   
Direct quote from my GF 30 sec ago "it allows me to not have to pay attention to the speed and keeping it right. I can pay more attention to driving and whats around me."
Hmmm should i be scared that shes right or that I let her drive at all?
Old    jp_mac            05-06-2003, 4:27 PM Reply   
If the price is right I'm in. I've been looking for an excuse to pull the trigger. A good deal may be just the thing.
Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-06-2003, 4:41 PM Reply   
Called up Randy at PP and he said they won't do a group buy. Anyone friendly with a distributor that wants some business?
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-06-2003, 8:52 PM Reply   
I actually run close to 2k lbs in ballast and I have the cruise. I've never had to adjust anything and it works perfectly!

B-
Old    daveyboy            05-07-2003, 5:12 AM Reply   
I'm in if everyone can get together with a dist. and get a break!
Old    jmccallum            05-07-2003, 7:27 AM Reply   
Ty & Barry,
Just as a point of reference for us poor I/O and O/B boys. Both of you guys have "real" ski boats right?
Old    jmccallum            05-07-2003, 8:05 AM Reply   
This thread has me worried about the whole PP Cruise verses Pro decision.

http://www.wakeworld.com/cgi-bin/Discus4/show.pl?3183/65780

Have you guys been following it?
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       05-07-2003, 8:10 AM Reply   
James,
we both have sangers now but barry used to run the PP cruis in a 4 cylinder bayliner and it worked like a champ.
Old    chris_hargis            05-07-2003, 8:16 AM Reply   
What do you mean James, for or against Cruise? Sounds like some are having problems with the pro.

Question about the cruise. I see on the switch that there is an increase and decrease button (masked into the other buttons) does this allow you to adjust on the go, or what? How much will it change the speed by. My wife likes to ski at 30 mph, I like to board at 22 mph, and my son likes it at 20 mph, so can I adjust on the go. I am sure that Pro would be better since you can set the speed before you go, but is that really worth $400 more?
Old    jmccallum            05-07-2003, 8:23 AM Reply   
Chris,
I don't know really! I'm just trying think my way through this. Even my spelling is "sturggling"

Some threads talk about the need for the extra adjustment other threads say Cruise is fine. Also, I have had many life experiences where I wished I had bought the higher model. But $400 is $400...
Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-07-2003, 9:04 AM Reply   
Personally I have used both and they have both worked perfect for the boats i was in. With that said I'm gonna get the Wake pro because: 1) you can program in the speed for every rider in the boat and it stay there forever 2) you can adjust the servo to an setting to compensate for things like ballast weight or people in the boat 3) I personally thought the digital display was cool and useful, we use the speed readings to compare how the wake is at speed and what different people liked to ride at. Even if your speedo would tell you that you can't neccessarily hold that speed as consitent(if that makes sense?)

I talked to a PP dealer in Florida I think. He said for 4 wake pro units, he would sell them at $976. Maybe we can work him a little better( free shipping or something) but I kinda need to know who's really interested (send me a email). I would like to buy mine this weekend or the following week but I'm flexable. I know Terry is also working on prices so maybe it will get better. Thanks
Old    Jeff Reese (jeffr)      Join Date: May 2002       05-07-2003, 9:44 AM Reply   
Either way having PP is better than not having it.

Terry,
There are a few of us in WA running the WB Cruises… we all run at least 2k in ballast plus and ride with 3-5 people in the boat. We have a mix of v drives and d drives. If you have your weigh balanced properly the Cruise model works fine.

With that said…. My next boat purchase will be new… and I will get the Dig Pro model…. Easier for the part-time drivers to change speed between skate/ wakeboard/ surf sets. Price difference factored into the cost of a new boat does not seem as bad. Plus my wife likes driving with PP now.

If you’re making a ‘stealth’ purchase… Don’t forget that the Dig Pro model makes a beep when the speed is set…. BUSTED!
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-07-2003, 10:06 AM Reply   
speaking of BUSTED, i suggest keeping the group buy stuff on the DL as much as possible, especially pricing. i bough mine last month on a GB, and some dealers complained to PP about it and our price went up as a result. some of the guys over at malibuboatowners.com now have a lot of scars from orchestrating GBs, and could be helpful.

re WBP vs WBC: i went with Pro because you can preset different speeds for different riders between sets. the Cruise works like car cruise - you set it on the fly. it will resume too, but not to a different speed. (so yes, you can change the set speed on the fly) Pro display also looks cooler, reads water temp, and has some diagnostic functions, in addition to the variable pull characteristic settings. good luck.
Old    chris_hargis            05-07-2003, 1:13 PM Reply   
James,
I just spoke with my local dealer and he highly recommends against the cruise. He says he would not want to spend $700 for a system that doesn;t do what he wants it to. His main concern was the lack of adjustment in the cruise for the pull of the rider. That goes well with what the others are saying here, but then again we have heard that the cruise is being used with good results by some. Just some more food for thought.
Old    Ray Larson (oldboarder)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-07-2003, 1:21 PM Reply   
Chris,

Have your wife speak to my wife. If you're like most riders, we get a little picky (and frustrated) with the speed of the boat. My wife will get blood out of a dime, but when she heard about the system and drove a friend's BU with it, she INSISTED! Now I'm a little less grumpy.

If you choose to surprise her, make her drive before she sees the bill. It will be worth it.
Old    Ray Larson (oldboarder)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-07-2003, 1:23 PM Reply   
BTW,

I have PP WB Pro. The adjustability is especially important with ballast.
Old    jmccallum            05-07-2003, 1:24 PM Reply   
Chris,
I think I'm eating too much...
Old    jmccallum            05-07-2003, 1:27 PM Reply   
Too much food for thought that is...

So the consensus is those who have Cruise swear by it and those who have Pro swear by it... perfect absolutely perfect...lol

Old    sub_zero            05-07-2003, 1:31 PM Reply   
Ray, Your so lucky to have a wife that thinks that way. One day when I was beaking off about the driving my bride threatened to leave me in the middle of the lake. When I informed her how unsafe that was and how I could get ran over she said I'd better control my trap. And waiting till I'm in the boat doesn't help much casue she has a long memory:-)
Old    Jeff Reese (jeffr)      Join Date: May 2002       05-07-2003, 1:36 PM Reply   
Spend the extra money and you will like it even more or just buy both.

Good advice Ray... sounds like that should close the sale. Guess you could buy it on a credit card... get it installed and even ride with it a few times before the bill showed up in the mail. SNEEKY...
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-07-2003, 1:42 PM Reply   
I can also say that the adjustments are a major need if you have a boat that gets strongly affected by a rider pulling on the boat. I had installed PP pro and love it. I left the adjustments alone at first, however the problem arose that with 2000lbs plus riders the boat could not keep speed when the rider was cutting hard so it would flucuate (sp?) within 1 mph or so. I adjusted the KDW and it now stays within .2 mph. I paid 1099 for PP pro which included installation and testing at a local dealer here in Dallas. My thoughts on this are that if you are already going to spend $700 why not wait a couple more weeks and save a little more money and get the best of both worlds. One thing to consider also that I am not completely sure about is, does cruise work off of your existing Speedo? If so, you are assuming your speedo is correct, VS. pp Pro has the paddle wheel and is not relying on the stock Speedo. Just my thoughts and opinions, but I am convinced I would never own a boat again without it. No more yelling at the wife when she is going to fast or too slow. :-)
Old    chris_hargis            05-07-2003, 2:06 PM Reply   
James,
I know the feeling my friend, I know the feeling. I am getting agitated thiking about it and I already know what my wife will say about $1100. She complains about the speed all the time when she is driving, but I still know it will be a very hard sale. No way I would ever sneek a purchase in on her. I like my body parts attached right where they are. Especially with me retiring in less than a year and no job lined up yet.

All this swearing is making me want to swear. My thought is that I would go with the pro since it gives more option for adjusting, and lets you preset the boat speed, and it adjusts to the rider pull, but it is $1100 versus $700.

I have my boat up for sale right now, but not trying to aggresively to sale it. I wouldn't mind keeping as much if it had PP on it. That is the one thing it is missing right now, well that and torpedoes for tubers. Just kidding about the torpedoes. I wish I had someone with a boat that had it on it that she could drive to experience it once. Maybe that would make it an easier sale. Oh well, we start with hints, then develope the frustration level higher and higher until she says "Oh just get the darn thing"
Old    Ray Larson (oldboarder)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-07-2003, 2:19 PM Reply   
Terry,

I had to swim to the rivers edge one day and wait for a while (1/2 hr). That cooled my "beaking off" for a few days. PP all the way.
Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-07-2003, 2:27 PM Reply   
Ok after a day of talking to dealers i have some pricing coming in but I have been advised to not add it up on the boards any more. So anyone who is interested in a PP for less then the advertised price send me an email by Fri. 9th. I'll get you all all the info I have. Rob@rockfuel.com
Old    jmccallum            05-07-2003, 2:30 PM Reply   
Chris,
I think you can knock off $xxx if you buy from the right dealer.

We were in FL for a vacation in March. We rented a boat at OWC and went for a board two days in a row. I did my best to point out the PP to her and to the driver's credit he "swore" by it! But I'm not sure she'll even remember the conversation.

Why are you selling the boat?

(Message edited by jmccallum on May 07, 2003)
Old    chris_hargis            05-07-2003, 2:34 PM Reply   
We want to move into a SAN, but can't afford two boats. If I can sale mine, I will look for a 2001 SAN (with PP) to replace it.

My dealer said he can get my in a PP Pro system with tax included for less than advertised price also, so $1000 is going to be closer to the price I am looking at.

(Message edited by chris_hargis on May 07, 2003)
Old    jmccallum            05-07-2003, 2:38 PM Reply   
Your wife is just like mine.

Yesterday, I told her there was a rust spot re-occurring on my 7 year old car. She said maybe you should replace it (many $,000)

But I know she would "react" if I add $1000 of electronics to the boat.

If you can get a SAN, go for it. I'm buying a new Volkswagen with PP in the trunk
Old    chris_hargis            05-07-2003, 3:10 PM Reply   
Maybe I could use the "I want this as my early retirement gift" routine. Well, unless she remembers that I got the Expedition 18 months ago.
Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-07-2003, 3:39 PM Reply   
hahaha
Old    chris_hargis            05-07-2003, 5:41 PM Reply   
Hey, I am desperate here I tell you. She won't believe the "this is the last thing I need for the boat" routine, be there burned that bridge. Just used up my birthday gifts on a new stereo with amp and 4 tower speakers, so that is out. Christmas? Anniversary? I am open to suggestions.
Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-07-2003, 6:14 PM Reply   
Make it a mothers day gift for her?
Old    xrated            05-07-2003, 6:31 PM Reply   
Cruise also uses it's own paddlewheel. I know , I drilled the hole.
Old    chris_hargis            05-07-2003, 8:04 PM Reply   
I like your way of thinking Rob.
Old    jp_mac            05-07-2003, 11:46 PM Reply   
I bought my wife a stainless S&W .357 for valentines about 6yrs ago, I still get grief over it.
Old    chris_hargis            05-08-2003, 6:31 AM Reply   
I think I would rather egt grief over that than the alternative, which is her learning to use it, then practicing on you.
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 7:03 AM Reply   
Yahoo...

Well I tried reminding her about the wakeboard we rode in Florida that had PP. She “vaguely remembered it.” Anyway then she looked at me and said why… are you going to buy one… I said guys are try to get a great group deal on it (adlibbed a bit)…She asked how much… I told her … she said wow …. BUT never said no! After that the conversation went elsewhere (my 14 year old has a school dance this Friday…)

Anyway, guys …am I good to go? Is not saying no as good as saying yes?
Old    chris_hargis            05-08-2003, 7:34 AM Reply   
James, when she said wow, did you take that as "Wow I can't belive that great price", or "Wow, that is a lot of money"? Interpretation is important, but also opens the door for the "Oh, I thought you meant for me to get it at that price" line. I think you are there my friend. You can play it safe and ask again, or you can go for it and use the above line with my compliments. If my wife said that, I think I would have to go for it.
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 7:39 AM Reply   

Come on...

We all know she meant "wow I can't believe that great price"
Old    Ray Larson (oldboarder)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-08-2003, 8:11 AM Reply   
you guys are insane
Old    Ray Larson (oldboarder)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-08-2003, 8:12 AM Reply   
interpretation: willing to put PP before life
Old    MB Tom (tcaton)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-08-2003, 8:21 AM Reply   
Just Buy it and get it over with. I have Perfect Pass WB Pro and love it. My wife thought it was to much money but after trying it a couple times she loves it. So bite the bullet and Buy It.
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 8:54 AM Reply   
Already chewing...
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-08-2003, 8:57 AM Reply   
you guys make me even more afraid to get married.
Old    Rob Fiege (sae4life)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-08-2003, 9:29 AM Reply   
Not to rub it in but my GF is the one putting up the money to buy PP she hates driving without it!!! Go demo a new boat with it and have your wife drive with and without PP on. Maybe she will then see the benifits and you might even get that new boat too. But thats a stretch ;)
Old    jp_mac            05-08-2003, 9:40 AM Reply   
Chris- She is actually a very good shot, she is even better with an Ar-15. That is why I cleared my PP purchase with her last night.
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 9:42 AM Reply   
Dam the torpedo's...

They don't look very big and how much could they hurt anyway?
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 10:25 AM Reply   
Just double checking...

You can remove an Airguide speedo (3.5" I think?) and drop the PP WB pro unit in it's place right?

With my small dash, I probably wont be able to fit both the PP WB pro and my Airguide speedo. Will the PP display the boat speed all the time or only when it's on? Is this an issue?
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-08-2003, 10:26 AM Reply   
You are correct james, it will fit right in where your old one was. As soon as the key is turned on PP will display the speed even if PP is not engaged.
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 10:34 AM Reply   
Dam, those guys at PP are smart!
Old    chris_hargis            05-08-2003, 12:59 PM Reply   
You can also get a gauge that has the PP at the bottom and the Tach at the top (analog).

Well, I just got off the phone with the wife and the first hint didn't go well at all. Her response was "don't even". Of course she was complaining about a sinus infection, so that probably wasn't the best time to hint to it.
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 1:02 PM Reply   
Where can you see a pic of this guage?
Old    chris_hargis            05-08-2003, 1:13 PM Reply   
Give me a minute to find it again.
Old    chris_hargis            05-08-2003, 1:15 PM Reply   


Here is th eone for the Malibu, but they have others available also.
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 1:17 PM Reply   
Neat.... more decisions to make ...lol
Old    sub_zero            05-08-2003, 1:30 PM Reply   
Hey Chris,

I think she was going to say "don't even......think you are going to get this without some major sucking up...I will expect foot rubs every night till the novelty wears off and then back rubs for a month after that"

I think that is as close to a "go ahead and buy it" as a man can expect:-):-):-):-)
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 1:41 PM Reply   
Hey Chris,
I think the custom gauges on this page are 5" (I think I need 3.5".. otherwise major surgery)

http://www.perfectpass.com/products.html
Old    jmccallum            05-08-2003, 1:49 PM Reply   
The general concensous is that PP is better than Accuski right?
Old    chris_hargis            05-08-2003, 2:01 PM Reply   
Yeah, they are 5 inch. I would still lok at putting on of those in mine rather than losing the tach or speedo. Of course since it dispalys the speed, I woud be alright with having a digital speedo. Of course right now it does not look hopeful for me, but give it some time.

Terry, she will come around, but just not at the moment. I'll keep working her until she gives in out of frustration. It is a slow process, but one that I have mastered over the years. Heck I have a roll cage, kicking stereo, built in ballast, and permission to sale and purchase wakeboard boat, so if I have accomplished all of that, this should be possible.
Old    MB Tom (tcaton)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-08-2003, 2:02 PM Reply   
Just get the credit card out pick up the phone dial Perfect Pass and order it and be done. forget about how mad the wife is going to get at you for buying it she will get over it. Just do it.
Old    jp_mac            05-08-2003, 3:43 PM Reply   
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission"
Old    chris_hargis            05-08-2003, 9:02 PM Reply   
I like peeing standing up! It is an agreement my wife and I have, no major purchases without concurance of both parties.
Old    chris_hargis            05-16-2003, 12:50 PM Reply   
Just an update, my wife came home from Alaska and we had lunch together today. As she was leaving lunch to go to Bingo, I told her that I wanted her to seriously consider PP for our boat. She smiled and said "OK, I will". I told her I would give her all the benefits later when we had more time. That is a big step in the right direction.
Old    sub_zero            05-19-2003, 10:03 PM Reply   
My Wakeboard Pro was delivered on Friday. As I came charging upstairs to answer the door, she beat me to it. She signed for the delivery. When she said "whats that", I responded acting calm "Oh, that's just the Perfect Pass I ordered while you were away, let me tell you how much you are going to like this baby:!

It has worked pretty well. I have a honey-do list that will keep me off the lake for about 2 weeks. I enlisted the help of the kids to do my list after I sold them on the benefits of PP. They were easier to convince than Jadene. All went pretty well, my wife is a great lady and will love this once I am able to leave the house again.

I can't wait to install it! They custom made me a gauge to match my factory gauges. Sweet!
Old    matt_dettman            05-19-2003, 11:03 PM Reply   
Chris,

I'm thinking your wife should "donate" a portion of her bingo winnings to the PP cause!

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