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Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-14-2009, 8:08 PM Reply   
I bet there are a lot of you who find yourselves day dreaming about wake, especially during the withdraws of the winter season. I find myself envisioning some kind of wake park set-up every time i see a little body of water or even every plot of land for sale.

I think my town is a lifetime or more away from a cable park, do to its small size, seasonality, and just its demographics in general, but then i thought maybe a small scale wake park would serve well to introduce wake and "break the ice" for more potential.

Recently i have found myself dreaming of an in-door wake park with a winch or two or more... OR, even better yet, a sesitec 2.0 system or two or more.
It would provide many of the same benefits as an average wake park but could be used year round, anywhere! (on a smaller scale, of course)

I was thinking that this might be a one-of-a-kind idea, but i am not too sure if it is. All sorts of TEMPORARY winch set-ups have been built indoors for events and stuff... maybe someone somewhere already got the idea to make this sort of thing more PERMANENT (indoors that is)? I mean there are indoor mini water parks with a couple of slides and maybe a wave pool, why not a wake park?
--------------------------------------------------

So is there already an indoor wake park some place that i have not heard of?

has someone else already thought of making this dream a reality?

or is this idea just some crazy smoke from my aimless musings, trying to fill the widening void of "wake-withdraws" within me? an idea that would only be good for a millionaire's backyard?

Now all i need is a lot of cash...

p.s. i know that in this time of economy slump that this may not be so bright an idea but besides that...
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-14-2009, 8:42 PM Reply   
We'd love an indoor wake park here in the frozen north!!! I've been dreaming about it for years. Soon as I hit the lotto consider it done.
Old    Jon D (jdwake1)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-14-2009, 8:50 PM Reply   
I'm down who wants to invest?
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-14-2009, 8:59 PM Reply   
Now here is another crazy idea i had while getting ready for bed... i just had to write this one before crashing tonight ;)

Soo, we have managed a way to bring the raw natural power of surfing to the indoors with those wave-ridder things... Now what about doing the same for wake? A simulated boat wake in a BIG/WIDE pool with a rope attached to the wall (with a mural of a wake boat) BAM! wakeboarding without a boat OR cable/winch!

And then, with a push of a button you could change the wake shape and height or even create simulated double ups

Just not sure if the technology is there to build such a device... at least not without some serious dough!!
Old    Zach Coppinger (zachcopp)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-14-2009, 9:19 PM Reply   
Jeremy, you are a man way before your time bro! That has got to be the best idea I have heard in a while. Having an indoor simulated boat wake, that is customizable to your liking and has the ability to form double ups. That is the future of our sport! And just think of all the threads of us all complaining about the cost of wakeboarding now. Just wait!
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-14-2009, 9:29 PM Reply   
Double ups couldn't really be simulated, save for setting up a wave generating device like what they use for wave pools at parks like Wet n' Wild Emerald Point and stuff.

As for customizable wakes that would be tough, maybe it could be done. However, I can guarantee that you could create a pool that generates a wake like a boat. I'm sure most of the regulars here for the past year saw the video of the guys who set up a pool where the water ran past at 18 mph. It was really shallow, but they could stand in their garage and wakeboard.

Anyways, combine that idea with a simulated wakeboard boat hull, planted in the water and held up by a hydraulic lift that enabled it to be tilted, making adjustments to the wake and creating the appearance of increasing the weight to the boat. You couldn't place the lift in the water, it would have to be above the mock up boat hull, but that would be possible, expensive, but possible.

The hard part to this would be setting up a propulsion system for the water that would push the volume of water that you'd need moved at speeds of 20+ mph. The downside to that would be the inherent dangers in setting something such as that up, namely because at those speeds, the sucking/pushing motion of the vents drawing the water could pull the rider underwater. However, a system could be put in place to prevent that, such as a vented, but padded wall that the water is pushed into before being sucked down to be recycled, or a circular pool that leads back down into the wake generator, with water jet propulsion devices under the water being used to force it along. However, the amount of force that would be required to effectively perform a feat like that would be extremely expensive, not to mention be an awesome feat of engineering. I've never heard of that much water being routed like that in a controlled manner...
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-14-2009, 10:01 PM Reply   
I think Wisconsin Dells is already doing this... it was passed before the econ took a it still maybe going forward.

Wedge Resorts is who is doing it, I believe
Old    Brad (brad63)      Join Date: Jun 2006       01-14-2009, 10:57 PM Reply   
couldnt you just put a boat that is stationary in front of the water flowing and that could create a wake
Old    Tom (laptom)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-15-2009, 4:10 AM Reply   
Here in the Netherlands and Germany cable parks are pretty common. At the moment there are plans to invest in an indoor cable park, but I don't know if those plans are finalized.
Old    Sam Adams (sdahockey21)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-15-2009, 4:17 AM Reply   
An indoor cable would be amazing.
Old    steve smith (210hippy)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-15-2009, 4:32 AM Reply   
Jeremy,It's been my dream for years.The ultimate cable park would be in the Siverdome in Detroit.It could have different levels and rails to tranfser between levels,sound system,lighting,nightclub? It's for sale, but it would obviously be too costly to maintain. I'd be thrilled to hit a 2.0 system in a golf inflatable building at this point.A guy can dream. I do beleive there is an indoor park in Germany.
Old    Ryan Shimabukuro (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002       01-15-2009, 7:00 AM Reply   
Year's ago, in the former East Germany, I heard they had an indoor facility that slalom skiers could train on during the winter months. It was essentially a large water treadmill with the speed of the water flowing at a specific rate to simulate that of a normal skier. The skier would be in a stable position but able to move left & right over the wake to practice their technique. Not sure if there's any truth to it, but seeing a lot of the equipment that the german federation put into their sports, I wouldn't doubt that it would be true.

We had discussed this concept years ago and wondered if it would apply to wakeboarding. The thought was to have the hulls of different boat models being pressed into a deep level, high rate of flowing water to create the shape of the wake and a rider would be able to basically advance back and forth over the wake.
Old    Patrick Seay (wakex2wake)      Join Date: Apr 2008       01-15-2009, 7:46 AM Reply   
these sound like great ideas but the thing you have to keep in mind about the "fake wake" is that w/ fluid mechanics the wake that would be created would be somewhat similar but nothing really like a wake behind a real boat... when you introduce a moving boat to (relatively) still water the wake produced will be nothing like introducing moving water to a still boat hull... the moving water will have a much different pressure and tension than the water outside the wakes at your favorite ride spot... it would basically be like continually riding on the water directly behind your boat... ever notice how much "harder" that water is?... it's b/c that water is moving and has been chewed up by your prop and spit out... much like the water in the "water treadmil"

not going to say it wouldn't feed some serious winter frustrations from people like me and you who are ready to get back in some 40 degree water on the first 60 degree day they see... the indoor cable sounds like a much more feasible plan and would get more bang for the buck i'd think... the cool thing about the indoor cable park you could potentially build the park w/o any poles for the cable... they could all be mounted to the roof for the most part
Old    Sean Fleming (fleming)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-15-2009, 8:15 AM Reply   
could you not shape the wake by pushing enough water over a shaped rubber material, much like the flow rider?

If you could, think of the possibilities. you would no longer be limited to a 2 - 3 foot ramp, you could get into much bigger stuff.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-15-2009, 8:25 AM Reply   
I donno about you guys but I am not coming up short on a 7/crowmobe/mody-dick/etcetc in 3" of water like flow rider.

The best way I can see to do it is take something like OWC little cable... build it in a greenhouse type of building but Dome the top like sports buildings... the pressurized ones, I do not they are THAT expensive. Then off the side have a connected building with pro-shop/food/whatever. A hotel would be nice too for Winter weekend stays.

As far as I know the Dells one had indoor wakeboarding, indoor skatepark/bmx track (maybe) rock climbing, flow rider, and an outdoor mad made ski/snowboard hill that could be run in the summer too.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-15-2009, 8:31 AM Reply   
http://www.midwestwakeboarder.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=201&forum=8
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-15-2009, 9:15 AM Reply   
"has someone else already thought of making this dream a reality?"

--- Yes....that's all I can say. You will hear more upon finalization of funding.
Old    M.K (mkrueger313)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-15-2009, 10:05 AM Reply   
Nick- so is the Dells Wedge Resort supposed to be indoors or outdoor??? I would love a cable in Wisconsin even if it was outdoors... I avoid the Dells like the plague but a cable would definetly change my beliefs about Wisconsin's "Redneck Disneyland"!!
Old    Forrest (wazzy)      Join Date: Nov 2001       01-15-2009, 10:26 AM Reply   
I have had the same idea for about 5 years now... I think once I loose my job (not that I am planning on it) I am going to do it.... Year round wakeboarding in the Midwest

I believe the one at the dells is outdoor
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-15-2009, 10:51 AM Reply   
I thought there was video floating around that talked about it being indoors.

I think one would actually do well between madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, area Janesvill/rockford.

The middle is about 1.5 hours from all...and that is about 8 million people.
Old    thebiggmann            01-15-2009, 10:28 PM Reply   
Yeah, there was talk about one coming in down by the dells. I heard about it when it was first announced, but haven't heard much since. It was indoor though, so that would be sweet!
Old    Dmitry (xaribda)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-16-2009, 5:43 AM Reply   
You can use existing indoor swimming pool like we do in Moscow or St.Petersburg. We have kickers and sliders there so it`s possible to train all tricks with this equipment. I understand that the swimming pool not so long and you can`t jump all tricks but believe me this is really good exercises for winter time :-)

Finally we are compete there; take a look and you will understand what I`m talking about.

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=4XvWcv3YgB4&feature=channel_page
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-16-2009, 8:03 AM Reply   
the wedge resort that is going in wisconsin dells and council bluffs iowa will have 'year round' wakeboarding and snowboarding. the cable park will be indoors!
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-16-2009, 8:05 AM Reply   
Also Nordic Mountain is putting in a winch park in there snowmaking pond which will be open in the spring!
Old    Jon D (jdwake1)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-16-2009, 8:30 AM Reply   
dmitry yall really like your batwings over there hu?
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-16-2009, 9:23 AM Reply   
By Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111) on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 8:59 pm:

Now here is another crazy idea i had while getting ready for bed... i just had to write this one before crashing tonight ;)


There was something like this in the mix a few years back. I rememeber seeing video of dude wakeskating on fast moving water tredmill basically doing shuvs and shiat. It was purdy cool.
Old    Forrest (wazzy)      Join Date: Nov 2001       01-16-2009, 9:57 AM Reply   
Well I suppose IF they do build it & it IS indoors, I won't have to worry about building one...

wonder if they will make you stay at the hotel in order to use the facilities???
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-16-2009, 10:03 AM Reply   
Where that video went they said they plan for the first while the facilities will be for guests only, but shortly after will be opened for all.
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-16-2009, 10:08 AM Reply   
It can be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6gss9RNmVA
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-16-2009, 2:39 PM Reply   
Wow, awesome to see this has, is, and will be going some place. just hope i can play a bigger part than online forums some day ;)... not that a big role can't be played online...
Old    Zach Kirby (wakeboardingzach)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-16-2009, 4:44 PM Reply   
thats sweet. and isnt there allready a 2.0 system indoors at texas mastercraft?
Old    Itch (fullonsalesgrp)      Join Date: Jan 2004       01-16-2009, 7:27 PM Reply   
I had the idea about 10 years ago of making a endless pool and adding a old boat hule on hydralic lifts I priced it out it would take about 2 mill to construct, so alas I gave up the idea. I also had the crazy idea about 15 years ago to add pvc pipe to floating docks but I gave up on that to. See my ideas are good but my follow through is lacking.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-16-2009, 7:34 PM Reply   
its our $$$ that is lacking ;)
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-16-2009, 9:47 PM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XvWcv3YgB4

wakeboarding indoors has been done. Its the whole... making it constant, making a wake, having jets of water constantly water rushing towards you... thats the hard part... sadly, until someone on here wins the lottery... it will remain a dream :-)
Old    justin (wake2wake_66)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-16-2009, 10:10 PM Reply   
Zach, it's not indoors. it is on their lake. The whole setup is pretty sick.
Old    Zach Kirby (wakeboardingzach)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-17-2009, 7:46 AM Reply   
oh thats tight. have you been there?
Old    justin (wake2wake_66)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-17-2009, 8:16 AM Reply   
Yea, but it's not open yet.
Old    MCXSTAR (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-17-2009, 8:18 AM Reply   
Flood Texas Stadium, its not being used anymore by the Cowboys.Upload
Upload
If Texas Tech can why not?Upload
Old    Jon D (jdwake1)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-17-2009, 9:27 AM Reply   
best idea ever
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-17-2009, 9:29 AM Reply   
Except Texas doesn't NEED it indoor.... something like that in the North would make alot more sense.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-17-2009, 9:38 AM Reply   
An indoor one would still have a few benefits even in a warm place... namely wind and rain protection and such ;)
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-17-2009, 10:37 AM Reply   
Texas storms pop up incredibly fast, our erratic weather is one thing we are known for. Storms can come out of blue skies within like 15 mins in the spring. There have been several times ive been at tsr and things get shut down real quick due to lightning. and just think, if its raining on the weekend and you were suppose to ride, you still could! whats the story about tech flooding? i never heard about that one
Old    MCXSTAR (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-17-2009, 12:21 PM Reply   
Sept. 12th 2008 Hurricane Ike
Over 10 inches in 24hrs.
Check out the benches, they are built in sliders
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-18-2009, 2:23 PM Reply   

quote:

Check out the benches, they are built in sliders




nice!
Old    billy d williams (billy2603)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-19-2009, 7:51 AM Reply   
also, Texas Stadium isn't exactly an indoor stadium...
Old    derek durkin (derek23)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-19-2009, 9:45 AM Reply   
I work for a design-build construction comany that puts up building big enough for this all the time (warehouse type). The only issue is the steel starts to become quite expensive when you need to start spanning over 60' or so. Haveing never ridden at a cable park would think that you would need at least 80' clear for the path of wakeboarding.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-19-2009, 10:00 AM Reply   
well here are the requirements for the sesitec 2.0


Water Area Required:

Length: 80 - 700ft

Width: 50 - 80ft

http://www.thewakeparkproject.com/systems/system2.php
Old    Thomas Sbisa (toemas)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-19-2009, 11:28 AM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJuVMRuWZvg
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-20-2009, 3:23 AM Reply   
^^ a start, but that looks like about as much fun as an above ground pool.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-20-2009, 5:54 AM Reply   
Thomas, that's the video that I was talking about in my earlier post on this topic.
Old    Topher (topherspike)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-16-2009, 10:45 PM Reply   
A friend of mine works at a energy drink company we will call RB, and in a conversation I had with him about a outdoor and indoor park in the upper mid-west, he said they (RB) had recently shelled out a grip load of money to create an indoor cable park. I could not rip any more info out of him about where or when we might see this.

All I know is that I'm a recent college grad who is currently proposing, at least an outdoor park in the Minnesota area before 2010. Like many before have mentioned, $$$/Investors. Luckily I have some close friends in the Recreation industry I am currently pulling on to make this happen. It's not if, but when.

First the cable park, then the boat pool, then the other attractions.

"...RB just dropped a grip of money making an indoor wakeboarding arena"
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-16-2009, 11:48 PM Reply   
There is one of these indoors in Elk Grove California

http://www.dreamextremeinc.com/flowrider.html

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=flowrider

(Message edited by bftskir on February 16, 2009)
Old    English (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-17-2009, 5:32 AM Reply   
The indoor cable park idea has been around for many many years, and it should of been done ages ago in the cooler climates but there never really seems people ready to invest. Somewhere in North USA or Canada it would be such a novelty it would have to attract people. Summer in the middle of winter.
My best idea was to convert those indoor windsurf pool that are never used anymore.
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-17-2009, 7:38 AM Reply   
So you need at least 80ft. Not enough in my opinion to make it worth your while. 700 ft is HUGE! Dudes, thats over two football fields! That's an expensive building. How many boxes, sliders or kickers could you hit in that time? Sounds like you'd be worn out by the time you got to the other side of 700ft! Seems realistic to do a football field sized building (120yds endzone to endzone) and about as wide, 53 yds. How many sliders, kickers, etc could you hit in 360 feet? With that width you might be able to run 2 sesitec systems. Football field is 360ft long by 160ft wide. Gentlemen, that is 57,600 square feet, or close to 1.33 acres! THAT is a big building. Could be done, no doubt, but the initial capital costs of something like that are staggering enough to scare folks away in an economy like this. You would have to find an investor "angel". A dude with more money than he can spend and won't mind taking a hit the first couple of years of operation. They don't grow on trees. I LOVE the idea, but could be tough to get moving in this economy. I would invest for sure. Might be a better idea to figure out how small you could go but make it as efficient as possible.
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-17-2009, 7:41 AM Reply   
If you could find a building that big already built and lease it, that would obviously be the way to go. BUT, there is a dig involved, or you build pools. Which would be better?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-17-2009, 7:56 AM Reply   
The old "walmart" in our town + attached "mall" sold for 350k.... the wal mart was big enough for 2/3 system 2.0's side by side.... it is do-able without question.
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-17-2009, 8:12 AM Reply   
That is a great price, but, if it's too far out from a city center you might have an issue with travel. I know the hardcore riders would trek it way out of the way, but in winter with potentially bad roads you want to keep it close. I was thinking one right around the Minneapolis area would work. More expensive property but it would attract more people. It's still a business, and you have to be profitable. How big is your town Nick, and where is it in WI?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-17-2009, 8:59 AM Reply   
dead center of wisco... my town (wisconsin rapids) 20,000, but is pretty much connected Stevens Point ~25,000 and Wausau is like 30 min and is ~130,000 people.


so from major cities:
Madison - 1.5 hrs
Milwaukee - 2 hrs 15 min
Chicago - 3 hrs
Rockford/Janesville - 2hrs 15 min
MLSP - 3 hrs
Wisconsin Dells (summer crowd) - 45 min
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-17-2009, 9:01 AM Reply   
... but I think the best place would be between
Madison/Milwaukee/Rockford/Janesville/Chicago

all of those cities are at MAX 1.5 hrs from a central point
Old    tom jack knotek (tom13knotek)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-24-2009, 12:42 PM Reply   
the start to all this will have to come from an increasing amount of normal outside cable parks. The 7th park is opening in may of 09 in cincy. This is a big step as far as i am concerned. the 1st park in the midwest, i am on a quest to see more parks go up, much like europe's setup w/120 parks or whatever.
Old    mikeyt (cwbrider16)      Join Date: May 2004       02-24-2009, 1:17 PM Reply   
I would like to buy a warehouse and build an indoor park, maybe for both wakeboarding and snowboarding? My own "Fantasy Factory", with pools and rails in the winter for wakeboarding off-season, and make some snow for the summer for snowboarding. Up here in the north east, its one or the other depending on season
Old    derek durkin (derek23)      Join Date: Oct 2006       02-24-2009, 1:32 PM Reply   
The existing building idea isn't bad except you have to worry about coulmn spacing side to side while riding. It is typically no more than 50' and usually closer to 35'-40'
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-24-2009, 2:15 PM Reply   
^ not in inflatable domes - most sports arenas have little to no support in the middle.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-24-2009, 5:23 PM Reply   
or something like this...
it is the Conference Center for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormons"), one of the biggest in-closed stadium style (no columns) buildings in the world

Upload

Fill the lower level with water
keep the seats on the upper level for spectators, especially for special events ;)

but, once again, a building like this for a wake park would exist only in dreams or $$$$$

hopefully other fellow members don't see this and think little of me for imagining wakeboarding (or snowboarding) in this dedicated building... or rather a duplicate LIKE it ;)
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-24-2009, 5:24 PM Reply   
Also, notice the large screen on the far wall... INSTANT REPLAY BIG SCREEN ACTION!!! ohhh man, what a dream!
Old    mikeyt (cwbrider16)      Join Date: May 2004       02-24-2009, 6:59 PM Reply   
I'll throw in for it if we all wanna buy it. we just need a whole lot more contributors

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