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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through December 15, 2008

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Old    Travis Lundeen (mtbtll18)      Join Date: Feb 2007       11-27-2008, 6:55 PM Reply   
I had my boat stolen on tuesday, they found it today thanksgiving about 15-20 miles away in the desert somewhere. It had about 20 bullet holes in it, it is missing the stereo, the interior has been cut, the engine is missing parts like the sea pumps and other add-ons. There might be other unknown damage, but i dont want the insurance company thinking they can just patch it and basically get it going then call it a day. It was a 2006 centurion air warrior elite v c4. It was in oerfect condition and i do not want a sub-par boat to come back. What does it take to have it a total loss.
Old    Mike O'Callaghan (greenpinky)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-27-2008, 7:16 PM Reply   
Man, I'm sorry to hear that. No experience with this stuff, so I'm no use, but all the best.

On a side note: bullet holes in it? What's the point of shooting it up?
Old    Brad Webb (04outback)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-27-2008, 7:44 PM Reply   
If they insist on repairing it, inquire about loss of value $$. Push them that a boat with 20 bullet holes in the hull that have been patched will lose considerable value and you need to be paid for that too. My guess is the bullet holes affected more than the outer hull so it may be too much work to get the inner hull parts fixed so you should get a total... just watch their total loss value with boat values down!
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-27-2008, 8:12 PM Reply   
It well be likely actual cash value minus the salvage. If it costs more to repair it, it will be totaled.

Go to nada, take the middle value, andcalculate 85%. It's not official, but it will give you an idea.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-27-2008, 9:04 PM Reply   
WOW that is insane dude, sorry to hear that. Yeah I am with B Webb regarding the bullet holes, that is going to kill your resale. Hopefully they find the bastards and get what is coming to them. Unreal that people do things like this.
Old    Scott (wakeaddict9813)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-27-2008, 9:42 PM Reply   
I would be interested in seeing what the book looks like, after all that damage. I'm sorry to hear that though, I cant believe people do crap like that.
Old    walt            11-27-2008, 10:41 PM Reply   
That blows. I hope it works out for you.
Old    scott clark (snwmot)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-27-2008, 11:08 PM Reply   
yeah man sorry to hear that but i would say definitly push the fact that ur boat was in perfect condition and it's no longer possible for it to be that way anymore! once again sorry for your misfortune
Old    mendo247            11-28-2008, 8:31 AM Reply   
Unfortunately the insurance company will not care about the fact that you think your boat will not be "perfect" after repairs. Insurance companies are a business. Most people forget this. It all comes down to wether or not its economical for them to have your boat repaired or pay you what its worth. As stated earlier they typically will not want the repair costs over 70-80 percent of the value of the boat.

My advice: Dont wait for an insurance adjuster to come out and look at your boat. Take it to a repair facility and have them give you an estimate (most likely your insurance company will pay for this if they even charge you at all). Let the repair facility know you do not want your boat fixed and you would like the estimate as high as possible. Then when the insurance adjuster comes out hand him the estimate you already have so that he cant do a half arse low ball estimate. In the long run that will save you an incredible amount of headaches and incase the adjuster tries to pull a low ball estimate you have something to back it up with. Sometimes the insurance may even go right off the repair facilities estimate.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-28-2008, 10:19 AM Reply   
^^^^2nd Coop Insurance company's only give a crap in their commercials. The advice he gave is good but these days more than ever they always want an adjuster looking at it.

At any rate sorry man that really does suck.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-28-2008, 11:02 AM Reply   
Take it to the repair shop leave it and have your adjuster go there to look at it.

Or better yet, have a third party sneek on your property before the adjuster gets there, and set fire to the damn thing.
Old    Martin (hehateme)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-28-2008, 11:14 AM Reply   
^^^^ You do any more major damage to it outside the police report you risk time in prison.

No way are they going to repair it if its riddled with bullet holes.

Start shopping for your new boat.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-28-2008, 12:37 PM Reply   
Ya great idea Paul, commit a felony for a new boat. Who's your carrier Paul? I'm sure my network of fellow fraud investigators would love to keep an eye on any claims you ever make.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-28-2008, 12:53 PM Reply   
Ok JeffYou get your network You take things way to seriously.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-28-2008, 2:20 PM Reply   
Jeff's set trippin' it was obviously a joke. I know, I know you don't think insurance fraud is a joking matter.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-28-2008, 2:23 PM Reply   
I can hear the music from the Priceline adds with the words replace with "Jeff,,,! the special inves-ti-gator!
Old    Dave (victory07rdr)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-01-2008, 7:11 PM Reply   
Most of the above comments are good advice. I'm a claims adjuster, and I do not think they will be fixing that. Your problem now will be the boat's actual cash value vs what you think it's worth. Sometimes that hurts. I know the fraud remark was a joke but trust me, any fire or theft is automatically looked at under the magnifying glass...don't take the chance.
Old    C. R. (crushing76)      Join Date: Feb 2007       12-01-2008, 7:24 PM Reply   
lol... network of fraud investigators...

followed quickly by his network of computer programmers with bow staff skills!
Old    Tanner Russell (tanner)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-01-2008, 11:51 PM Reply   
Alot of Insurance carriers like mine, State Farm, don't do actual cash value on boats. They go off declared value, which is the value you've been paying a premium on. If you've been paying a premium on $XXXX amount of dollars, then make sure you get it.
Old    Ken Land (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-02-2008, 8:09 AM Reply   
Like mentioned in this post one of 2 options (possibly your choice) will be available to you.. Your boat will be a total loss or they will fix it. Either one of this options you can come out way ahead.. 1. In the event you have a total loss: it is your right to purchase back the boat at salvage value: you can have it fixed (willing and dealing for best deal on repairs) and sell it for a profit.. 2. You have the boat fixed on the insurance company's dime, and it is your right to be compensated for depreciation: then turn around and sell it.. Either way you win.

I have friends who have been in both of these situations, and both have come out ahead. Buying back the boat at salvage value would be the best deal.. I have a friend who totaled his $90,000 Porche in the first 6 months of owning it (had gap insurance: nearly same as cash value boat insurance): paid off his note, bought it back salvaged, and fixed it up for a total out of pocket expense of $18,000... He has to disclose when he sales it that its salvaged, but he has a $90,000 porche for $18,000: can't go wrong..

If you are given a choice, be sure you have cash value insurance before choosing a total..

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com
Old    Craig (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-08-2008, 2:48 PM Reply   
I totalled a motorcycle with Formost Ins. Once cost to repair exceeded 70% NADA they totalled. I bought it back at 20%.

I negotiated them down a negligible amount on the buy back price. Then had to pay sales tax on the buy back. Which is really annoying...paying sales tax on the same bike twice.

The insurance company will fix the boat. NADA on that boat will (guessing) be at minimum $40k. Bullet holes (assuming 10-20) in the fiberglass can be fixed for $3500. Stereo $5k, Parts $3k, Interior $5k. That is 17k. It's going to be really hard to get up to $28k (70%) in repair. Or as one poster above said (85%).

IMO.
Old    Chqwakeboarder (chqwakeboarder)      Join Date: May 2006       12-08-2008, 6:12 PM Reply   
Craig,
I believe you estimate is low on the fiberglass damage. Remember, theses are bullet holes not scratches. The dealer must fix multiple layers of fiberglass and make sure the boat is structurally secure. That's not something easy to do. I would say between 10k and 20k on the fiberglass alone. The other estimate that I think is low is the misc parts (3k). Depending on what they took off the engine, which it seems like a lot from what he described, that could easily be between 5k and 10k. I think this boat will end up being totaled.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-08-2008, 7:36 PM Reply   
Don't bother wasting time getting any "inflated" estimates. Your insurance company is in the drivers seat and is going to establish all the values and then decide to repair or total. If it's worth 40K it may be repairable but the bullet holes, depending on what components are behind them, will most likely have alot of cost involved to repair. If you have a "stated value" policy, then at least that number is already determined.
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       12-09-2008, 6:52 AM Reply   
From what I know (adjuster who spends summers working boats for MN) this sounds like a total. As mentioned above, the glass is going to cost an arm and a leg, and may not even cure all the problems caused by the bullets. I personally have handled many totals where the damage isn't bad at all by comparison to this.

With more extreme cases, such as this, a lot of times we go to the manufacturer to determine what they would do as well. Many times they are able to repair badly beaten items, but at a price well over what the boat is worth. Also, we don't write the estimates on these either (just us, I can't speak for all companies). We have our Insured take it to a shop of their choice, which is sometimes the manufacturer (Working MN there are a TON of Lund's out there and their factory is local, their proximity is probably 90% of the reason we deal with them so much)

Where we total boats is when the repair cost + the salvage value exceeds the limits of the policy.

Tanner - you are right about the state farm policy, it does go to the insured value of the boat. So say you bought an X star in 02 and Insured it for 60K, then ran the thing into the ground. Although it wouldn't be worth near that now, in the event of a total (unrepairable or repair + salvage > limits) they'll pay you the Insured value of 60K, not it's actual cash value like a car.
Old    Jon Clay (jclay5)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-09-2008, 8:34 AM Reply   
So Travis its been a while since this happened. Whats the update on the claim?
Old    Shawn (helinut)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-09-2008, 8:50 AM Reply   
So do your premiums go up after something like this happens? I found a nice little rock bar this last year with my boat. $6,000 in damage. I'm wondering how much my insurance will go up.
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       12-09-2008, 11:22 AM Reply   
That I don't know, we always refer any questions regarding premiums to Agents. Underwriting makes all those decisions.

But for 6K, I'd definately check into it!
Old    Shawn (helinut)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-09-2008, 3:05 PM Reply   
Sent them an email. We'll see how good this insurance company really is :-)
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-09-2008, 8:23 PM Reply   
What company is it?
Old    Shawn (helinut)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-11-2008, 2:02 PM Reply   
Boaters Insurance. Just got an email back from them. My rates are skyrocketing! They're going up at least $30 a year!!! Guess it's time to sell the boat. :-)
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-14-2008, 2:26 PM Reply   
Sorry for your loss....

$3,500 for (20) bullet hole repairs? No way.

Last summer got a quote to fill (12) 5/16" holes and repair the gel coat. I was intalling a new tower, and there were a bunch of holes from the old tower. The estimate was $1,200. I have done a lot of fiberglass work...so I decided to do it my self. It turned out great...but it was a TON of work. In the end...I wish I had paid someone else to do it. I would have been money ahead to pay the $1200...but then again...I don't know if it would have been done as well.

All these small holes were in accesible areas...and they were small/clean enough that I did not need to do structural repairs. I just filled the holes with a resin/chopper glass mix, cleaned up, and did a small color matched gel coat repair.

(20) bullet holes!? Those will not be clean holes. There will be structural damage. Many are likely in areas that will be impossible to get to on the inside...meaning you will have to try to repair from the outiside. This is virtually impossible, as you will end up with a huge patch which needs to be re-gelcoated.

That is a $10,000 min repair. It could be more as they may have to essentially remove the entire interior to get to the back side to do proper repairs. That is how I would do it. Patch from the inside so that you can minimize the surface work and gel coat repair from the outside.

That said...if it were my boat...I would hope it gets totaled...get the $...then buy it out of salvage...and fix it right myself. Then again, I am a glutton for punishment.

(Message edited by kitewake on December 14, 2008)
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-14-2008, 2:31 PM Reply   
As an aside, I doubt that many local shops will be capable of properly planning the repairs for your boat, if there was any significant structural damage. You should insist that a marine surveyor experienced at evalutating fiberglass damage be utilized, and any repair quote be based on his recommendations.

Any schmo can lay up fiberglass. It is something else to determine what needs to be done to repair a damaged structure.

(Message edited by kitewake on December 14, 2008)

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