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Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-13-2008, 3:17 PM Reply   
Putting a 1150# front bag in the new 21V is no more. All the whinners that say "I gotta have a walk thru" have messed it up. Just under the play pen, the space has been reconfigured to provide a walk thur The front 650# factory bag is all that will fit. Im very dissapointed because the new 21V Worlds looks smokin hot.

As I see it I can

1. Add the Pro X Series Open Bow Sac - W706 on top of the seat. My wife will hate me if I do that

2. Add the Pro X Series Integrated Bow Sac - W711
dimensions: body- 20 x 29 x 12 arms- 32 x 12 x 12 weight: 650 lbs. / 295 kg. This one will go under the seat but will only fill to 9inches not 12inches.

3. Add the Pro X Series Side Sacs (set) - W703
dimensions: 48 x 12 x 12 weight: 260 lbs. / 118 kg. each. These also will not fill all the way but to 9 inches and might be a little long

So what do y'all think would be best.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       10-13-2008, 3:22 PM Reply   
combo, lead plates and option 2. you shoudl get close to 1k lbs up front I woudl guess. Does the 21 handle weight the same way? I thought they redesigned it ( hull)?
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-13-2008, 3:54 PM Reply   
wow that sucks...i dont know what I would do without that bag!

having said that..option 2 + the stock 650...will be just as good....just losing your front seat storage.
Old    steven hall (old_timer)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-13-2008, 4:07 PM Reply   
I've heard people talk about lead plates and bricks on here before. Is there someone who sells them or are they homemade? If you can buy them, what sizes do they normally come in? Are they made for wakeboarding? Where do you get them?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-13-2008, 4:08 PM Reply   
Nuff said: http://www.pop-products.com/
Old    steven hall (old_timer)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-13-2008, 4:20 PM Reply   
Thanks Darren
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-13-2008, 6:39 PM Reply   
Yea in the past I have used lead but now its out of question. I trailer my boat behind my 5th wheel all the time and that would really be asking for trouble.

Plumbing in the extra bags will be easier in 09 because Supra went to the Jabsco reversible pump system.

Talking outloud here but, I could see how the #3 option would workout better for wakesurfing if I could control the front 3 bags seperately.
Old    steven hall (old_timer)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-13-2008, 7:28 PM Reply   
I was thinking it would be nice to have maybe a couple hundred pounds of lead just to quickly balance the boat. For the bulk of the weight I use sacs.
Old    SteveO (steveotx)      Join Date: Feb 2008       10-13-2008, 8:01 PM Reply   
According to the Supra Site the 21 still has the playpen and the 20 is walk thru http://www.supraboats.com/launch21v/
Old    Brad Webb (04outback)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-13-2008, 8:39 PM Reply   
chris,
I am looking at option 3 for my Mobius LSV right now for surfing..
I am trying to figure out a valve between the 2 sacs so I can fill one side.. otherwise, I would go with the bow sac..
Old    NAW (ripr)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-14-2008, 7:32 AM Reply   
Chris...more details on the information you have? I hadn't heard anything about this and all the dealer sheets still say playpen on them. How can it be a true playpen and a walkthru as well?
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       10-14-2008, 7:41 AM Reply   
Also heard rumors that the 09 pumps have timers on them like the MC's. IF that's the case you may run into some issues when trying to plumb larger/otehr sacs in??
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-14-2008, 11:38 AM Reply   
Steve-o, NAW, and Adam - The 2009 21V is currently availble only as a playpen. BUT LET ME BE VERY CLEAR, the 650# bag takes up the entire area and the 1150# will not fit! SC has moved the basement area forward and glassed in cup holders under the front seat toward the bow, thereby reducing the playpen ballast area. It is very similar to the current 22SSV playpen but with the bag about 3 feet forward. SC did not obvoiusly consult me before making this change. We are going to have to deal with it.

Adam you are correct that the 09 system is similar to MC and CC with the Jabsco Pumps with timers. There are no longer the solinoid valves. Fill and Drain now are done from the bottom of the boat with an overflow vent at the normal spot. They are much faster
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       10-14-2008, 11:50 AM Reply   
Chris, I know those timers were giving the MC owner's headaches when trying to reprogram them to allow to fill longer.
Old    Brad Webb (04outback)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-14-2008, 1:29 PM Reply   
This is posted on Moomba.com forum from one of the SC employees:

http://www.moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=6847&page=2

This is for 2009 Ballast Systems ONLY!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe this will help?? 2009 Ballast System Programming


To change the fill time of the ballast:

1. Connect battery to the wiring with the 60 amp breaker.

2. Disconnect power to the ballast control box by tripping the 60 amp breaker located by the battery.
a. This will have to be done for programming each ballast control box. (Left rear ballast, Right rear ballast, and Front ballast)

3. Reset the breaker

4. Within 1 minute of resetting the breaker; toggle the ballast switch (of the fill time you want to change) FILL-OFF-EMPTY-OFF- FILL-OFF-EMPTY-OFF-FILL
a. Stop with the switch toggled to FILL.
b. This will enter ballast control box into programming mode.
c. When the ballast control box goes into programming mode the pump will quit turning on.

5. The LED on the ballast switch will blink to show current fill time.
a. When counting blinks wait for the second blink cycle after the pause, blinking starts as soon as reprogramming has started and it is easy to miss the first few blinks.

b. Refer to the timing chart to determine the current fill time based on the number of blinks.

6. To ADD TIME to the fill time
a. To add 30 secs, turn ballast switch to FILL then OFF.
b. Number of blinks will increase by one each time the FILL - OFF is toggled.
c. Add remaining number of toggles of FILL - OFF to get the desired number of blinks from the timing chart.
d. End with the switch toggled to FILL to count the blinks.

7. To REMOVE TIME from the fill time.
a. To remove 30 secs, turn to OFF then DRAIN
b. Number of blinks decreases by one each time the DRAIN - OFF is toggled.
c. Add the remaining number of toggles of DRAIN - OFF to get the desired number of blinks from the timing chart.
d. End with the switch toggled to FILL to count the blinks.

8. When counting blinks wait for second blink cycle after the pause, blinking starts as soon as reprogramming has started and it is easy to miss the first few.

9. When correct blinks are obtained, switch to OFF and wait 10 seconds to allow program to be set. This will now be stored in the AI unit.




Timing Chart

Blinks Time (minutes) Blinks Time (minutes)
1 2 14 8.5
2 2.5 15 9
3 3 16 9.5
4 3.5 17 10
5 4 18 10.5
6 4.5 19 11
7 5 20 11.5
8 5.5 21 12
9 6 22 12.5
10 6.5 23 13
11 7 24 13.5
12 7.5 25 14
13 8 ETC 20 max


Rear bags All boats = 4.5 minutes of fill time = 6 blinks

LS split tank = 2 minutes each side = 1 blink

Front bags

Moomba
1) Outback V = 3 minutes of fill time = 3 blinks

2) LS / LSV = 3 minutes of fill time = 3 blinks

3) XLV = 4 minutes of fill time = 5 blinks

Supra
1) 20 SSV = 3 minutes of fill time = 3 blinks

2) 21 V = 4 minutes of fill time = 5 blinks

3) 22 SSV Walk-Thru = 3 minutes of fill time = 3 blinks

4) 22 SSV Play-pen = 4 minutes of fill time = 5 blinks

5) 24 SSV Walk-Thru = 3 minutes of fill time = 3 blinks

6) 24 SSV Play-pen = 11 minutes of fill time = 19 blinks
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-14-2008, 2:23 PM Reply   
^^^^This reminds me of that old Nintendo game where you get infinite lives, by pressing the controller, down, up, down, up, left, right, left, right, a,b,a,b, select, start
Old    ausbill32            10-15-2008, 12:14 PM Reply   
On a different note, I'm glad Supra stepped up and changed the size of the gas tank to add 12 more gals for a total 52. I hated only having a 40 gallon tank in my old 2006 21v.
Old    pdxWAKE.com            10-16-2008, 9:42 AM Reply   
Chris,
Did you try and throw a 1150 in the compartment?
I have not tried, but I did check out the 09' and comented on it being smaller for sure. Similar to the 22, but I bet you can still get most of that 1150 bag full. Not sure as I have not tried, and simply looked and my assumption was also so they can introduce a Sunsport version of the 21V. You can tell that is the plan, but have not heard anything for sure. Let me know what you find out, cause that is a big deal to me as well. Have you driven it yet? I have not. I was told there were no real changes to the hull and just the top deck. I hope that is the case, but does anyone know?
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-16-2008, 4:12 PM Reply   
Diggs - No I did not but let me tell you why. Nick and I took an aircompressor and blew up the 650# front bag and it took up the entire compartment + it also started to push up the center cushion

That bag starts a good 2 foot forward of where the 22SSV bag begins begins. Not sure why they did that? I dont think the gas tank is bigger like what Bill is saying but I have not confirmed it either way. Ill email Matt Brown to find out. Reguardless, even if you swapped for the 1150# it is not going to add any weight.

Bottom line is we will have to do it like all the other brands do it. Nick and I are leaning toward adding 2 x 250 bags up front. BTW I did not drive it yet but very confident on the wake. Per Matt, the only change was it got trued up digitally.
Old    pdxWAKE.com            10-16-2008, 8:54 PM Reply   
Chris
Thanks for the info and let me know what you find out... We may demo it soon too, but really loved the 1150# bag up front. I heard there is a 52 gallon tank in it now.
Cheers
Old    Pat De Heer (on_board_wakeboarding)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-18-2008, 2:01 PM Reply   
Can someone tell me if they resized the rearbags???
I saw a supra 22ssv today and the rearsacs looks smaller and higher.
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       10-18-2008, 7:25 PM Reply   
the rear sacs are the same weight just different dimensions so the they stay in the lockers
Old    Pat De Heer (on_board_wakeboarding)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-19-2008, 1:01 AM Reply   
Does SC also use new dimensions for the new moomba's
Old    wiz            11-30-2008, 1:40 PM Reply   
chris, just get a 22!!! the black worlds is gonna be a nightmare to keep clean. plus with that gold it looks like lil john edition.
Old    Ed G (ed_g)      Join Date: Nov 2005       12-01-2008, 3:11 AM Reply   
Oh sure, share my private love letters with the world.

Until now, you had to buy a 2009 Moomba Outback in order to get the secret Orphan Annie Ballast Code.
Old    Matt Crowe (crowem87)      Join Date: Nov 2005       12-02-2008, 10:43 AM Reply   
chris i have lead tire weights out the ass in my garage and an extra couple hundred pounds wont be hard.. you know my number! call me!
Old    AWS            12-02-2008, 2:28 PM Reply   
Upload
Upload
Upload
Old    Cal (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       12-02-2008, 2:50 PM Reply   
That has Tyler's name all over it...
Old    Pat De Heer (on_board_wakeboarding)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-02-2008, 2:56 PM Reply   
has anyone rode behind it, what's the wake like?
how does it handles?
Old    pdxWAKE.com            12-02-2008, 3:27 PM Reply   
Ha ha... Cal you are right.... if I sell my 08' that is mine....
Anyone want an 08 21V?

Pat,
The wake should be the same and handle the same as the previous 21V's. Most of the tweaking was to the top deck. Why ruin a good thing right?
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-02-2008, 3:41 PM Reply   
I bet they had Diggs in mind when they built it.
Old    AWS            12-02-2008, 4:52 PM Reply   
HMMM... Tyler may have been in mind on this creation.
This is issue no.1 of the GW LIMITED EDITION SERIES.
Old    pdxWAKE.com            12-02-2008, 7:32 PM Reply   
hmm might be worth seeing no. 2 of the GW limited edition series....
Greg,
Have you tried to fill at 1150lb bag in the new 21v or what have you experimented in there for more weight up front?
Old    AWS            12-02-2008, 11:24 PM Reply   
hopefully no.2 is going to be in the works for the Portland boat show.
I have not tried to fit any other bag under the front. I did fill the factory bags and threw a 550 in the bow and a 550 in the middle of the cockpit.The wake was solid!
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       12-03-2008, 6:07 AM Reply   
Chuck - In 2010 ill be saying - God why did I not listen to Nick and Chuck about black boats. I gotta stick to the 21V over the 22SSV on my lake. 2000 feet is not very long.

Matt Crowe - Thanks but were gonna do an extra 2x350 tube up front with extra pump. Ill have it on display at Indy Boat Show in Feb

Greg Waters - Nice!!!!!

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