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Old    Andy Nintzel-NautiCurl Wake Shaper (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-07-2008, 8:30 AM Reply   
Okay so I have a feeling I am not alone out here in this wonderful wakeboard land we live in. So I am calling all wakeboard snobs. I got called out on this a few months back. Basically, what I am getting at is that before I go out and ride with some one new for the first time I grill them on their set up. What boat, what lake, how much weight, how do you distribute the weight, etc. If I end up going out with them I bring a bunch of extra sacs and pumps with me just to make sure the boat is slammed. My wife and my buddies call me a wake snob. I say I am just trying to maximize my lake and fun time.

The point of all this is, am I alone in this? Does this make me look like a complete a$$? I am never mean about it, I think I am educating my fellow riders on how to weight down their riders and maximize their fun. I know that I am guilty of not going out with someone again if the set-up is weak, instead I just try and make them come on my boat. Is there any more like me out there?
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-07-2008, 8:39 AM Reply   
HAHHAHA...good one andy

personally, i dont really say too much ab how another has their boat set up. BUT if they ask me how we set up ours then i will gladly fill them in and make suggestions on how they should set theirs up and, like you, will volunteer to bring out more sacks and pumps too.

to some people they might think you're bein an ass but to me i just chalk it up to hey i like to ride a big wake. if you havent ridden a large wake you should. you might like it. if you dont then it's no sweat off my back.

i too am guilty of not going back out on others boats but i always extend an offer to come ride the x1.

(Message edited by romes on October 07, 2008)
Old    kylie-logan (kylielogan)      Join Date: Apr 2006       10-07-2008, 8:52 AM Reply   
i don't have a boat, so any boat is better than mine. however . . . my girlfriend has a ski boat and co-owns a private lake and invites me out all the time to ride, but i don't go cuz it's just not the same!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-07-2008, 8:55 AM Reply   
I ask the same questions Andy.

BUT, I won't show up with sacks, I just won't go if I don't like what I'm hearing.
Old    Ozark King (onthewatermo)      Join Date: Jan 2008       10-07-2008, 8:56 AM Reply   
I know riders who when I excitedly called them to invite them out on a friend's new MC X-15 casually replied, "Yeah, we really only enjoy riding Malibu wake". I attribute my unwakesnobishness to my tow history: Having started on a zip sled behind an outboard on a jon boat before learning to ski behind a '78 tri-hull glastron/evinrude setup, I can appreciate almost any pull. Being a non-boat owner helps increase the appreciation for pulls as well. Now that I think about it though, I am always sending email links of fatsack deals to a friend who's wake could use a little boost.
Old    Greers Ferry Lake Marine & ATV (greers_ferry_boats)      Join Date: Dec 2007       10-07-2008, 8:56 AM Reply   
You are not alone on that at all. Everyone I know is the same way if they are going out on a new boat with new friends. Like you said maximize lake time. You don't want to get out there and the wake be crap.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-07-2008, 9:13 AM Reply   
I've turned down pulls because of what they say they are pulling with.

I'm fairly picky.... unless they're like
"Yeah its our 22ft prince, you, 15 girls....." I'll go and throw down and try and impress
Old    what what (snowman89)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-07-2008, 9:16 AM Reply   
I would say etiquette wise If there the type of person who only wants to ride in say the 23mph range like I do, I would be kinda upset if you slammed my boat down so much I had to ride at ridiculous speeds. I would say if It's a person whos knows what they like (Remember it's all preference) then just either go with it or ask if they would be open to riding more weight or distributing it different.

However I am a snob in a different way lol. Nothing irritates me more than riding with a group of people that think I suck because I can't do an invert. Earlier this summer I was riding with a new group of people and I took the first set and went hs and ts w2w with grabs and w2w 180s and fell on a couple ts3 attempts with nobody saying anything. Im then followed by a group of guys who don't jump toeside and do halfwake tantrums and everyone in the boat is cheering and yelling. They had the worst style ever too lol, they would let off there edge like ten feet before the wake and pop up high with a tindy grab then case the wake everytime lol. I thought to myself these guys don't have a clue and I never rode with them again lol.
Old    Shane (wakebrdrnc)      Join Date: Mar 2004       10-07-2008, 9:16 AM Reply   
I think all of us who ride regularly ask the same questions Andy. From what I have found most of the new people I ride with end up saying "What do I need to do to make it better?" We have tight group here in North Carolina and when a new person arrives it is funny how quickly they end up modifying their boats. I have to a agree with J-rod though, if I don't like what I hear I will usually just pass. I don't think it is snobbish, I think it is just loving our big wakes!
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       10-07-2008, 9:16 AM Reply   
Any time on the lake is a good time by, mean. 3-4k in a wakeboard boat or no weight in a slalom boat is all the same for me. Im not a pro and Im not trying to be sponsored. Beer, sun, friends means a good time no matter what.
Old    Robert A. Rodriguez (robertr720)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-07-2008, 9:19 AM Reply   
I do that for sure. I have a few good friends that I go out with on their boats and they also come out on mine. We all know what to expect on each others boats so no one really worries about it. I am guilty of always showing up with bags and a pump though. No matter whos boat I go out on I always bring them just in case. Just like said above I hate to get to the lake and then the wake be crap. I enjoy any pull I get, but if the wake is good and I don't have to worry about not being comfortable with the wake then I just seem to have more fun while I am riding.
Old    Andrea Ensminger (parkgirl)      Join Date: Nov 2001       10-07-2008, 9:31 AM Reply   
haha, good thread. Admittedly I am totally a wake snob!
But I never ask anyone about their set-up. I try to find out through others or wakeworld what boat they have and how they weight it.Then like Jarrod, decide if I should go or not. And I am NOT likely to go out with someone I do not know or have not met on someone elses boat.

Im less concerned about wake size and more snobby about driving skills and riding habbits.
Such as driving a straight line and having preference for finding good spots of water to ride...I have been out with friends that go to a crowded, rolled out channel and expect me to jump in. I usually pass and don't ride that day unless we find a good spot.
Old    Kyle P (wakeboard_pittsburgh)      Join Date: Jul 2008       10-07-2008, 9:31 AM Reply   
"Beer, sun, friends means a good time no matter what" <- great line.

Andy, honestly I think you are doing the community a service. When I first arrived in Pittsburgh a little over two years ago I only know of one person who put more than 600lbs in their boat. Plus the local wake boat dealers and pro shop were telling everyone that putting weight in your boat was bad. My favorite quote from a boat dealer, "Putting anything more than the stock balast destroys the wake."

That being said. When I ride with other people, I always feel them out and make sure they are ready to add weight. I never really force the issue. There are a lot of beginners in this area, and I figure if I teach them that basics on the small wake, the weight will eventually come (which it has).

Having a good time on the boat is a lot more important to me now than when I was in Florida where it was all about my progression that day.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-07-2008, 9:54 AM Reply   
Hilarious thread Andy.

I think anyone who rides a lot and has a decent bag of tricks is picky (generally). The sport lends itself to that. If you are a good rider its always easy(er) to find a pull than a beginner because almost everyone wants to get better and the fastest way to do that is by riding with better peeps. Plus who doesnt want to see someone throw down more than normal behind their boat? As a result a rider with a decent bag has options on where and who to ride with.

Generally I will inquire about setups and leave it at that. I dont bring extra sacks. If I think the boat is light I will ask if they want me to bring extra sacks but if they say "no" then I dont. I think everyone who rides a lot has probably had at least one "un-ideal" "find a third" meeting...but that's part of building up a network of peeps to ride with.

Regardless of "snobby-ness" it would only offend me if you could'nt back up the weight you were bringing (by riding well) and made condescending remarks about my stuff. I see two general situations here: One where the boat owner doesnt have the skills to desire/require a big wake. Two where someone is just oblivious to adding weight and will be happy to have experienced the result.
Old    Steve - O (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-07-2008, 9:56 AM Reply   
I've got a buddy that we call "The Wake Doctor" He usually comes out with a huge duffle bag full of sacks, pumps and bungies. He will hop on, throw a few sacks around and dial your wake right in. But... he does specialize in surf wakes. I think it's cool, and kind of a running joke with us.
Old    CMC X Stars (02wakesettervlx)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-07-2008, 10:08 AM Reply   
I'll go out on other boats, but I won't ride if I don't like the setup. I am spoiled though, and I admit it.
Old    K.B.C.            10-07-2008, 10:08 AM Reply   
I don't do it. Im happy to get out and ride on someone elses boat so I dont have to deal with mine regardless of the setup. If its setup proper obviously it's bonus points and Im more willing to go out behind it on a regular basis. But I dont question peoples set ups or bring extra fatsacs, kind of poor taste IMO. Luckily most of the boats I ride behind are proper.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-07-2008, 10:12 AM Reply   
Man, you guys are hard core! I like big wakes just as much as the next guy, but to turn down somebody who is nice enough to offer you a ride because you don't like their boat or how they weight it??...LAME! The only time I would do this is if I found out the guy inviting me owned a Mastercraft.
Old    derek (to_blind)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-07-2008, 10:20 AM Reply   
its kinda like bringing your own strippers to a party. It's a little tacky, but who is going to complain?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-07-2008, 10:27 AM Reply   
I don't see anything lame about it. If I know I can't get a great pull behind your boat, I'll invite you out on mine. A couple of my best riding friends don't prefer to ride behind our Xstar, fortunately I like their wake, so I ride behind theirs. Whatever.
Old    adam (txadam)      Join Date: Sep 2005       10-07-2008, 10:28 AM Reply   
I'm happy with any pull I can get.

No need to be a snob if you can ride like this:
Old    Steve - O (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-07-2008, 10:39 AM Reply   
If I'm having a party and you bring strippers, you're the man in my book!!!
Old    Erik (etakk7)      Join Date: Apr 2006       10-07-2008, 10:47 AM Reply   
I'm also happy with any pull I can get. I don't consider any setup to be a waste of time, being out and riding is great as long as the company is good!
Old    Brett Treiber (pc_sledge)      Join Date: Jan 2006       10-07-2008, 10:51 AM Reply   
Man I love getting the opportunity to ride new wakes. Slammed or not, I love the chance to get out with new people and ride together. Newbies or pros, I love being around peeps that share the same passion I have. Of couse I'd rather hit a mackin wake but to pass up the chance of gaining a new friend, no thanks.
Old    alan owen (owenitall)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-07-2008, 11:19 AM Reply   
i agree with you brett
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-07-2008, 11:47 AM Reply   
I agree too. I'm sure nothing can kill a newbie's stoke more than telling them the brand new $40K boat they got isn't good enough for you to ride behind. I would have not had the opportunity to make several of the friends I have if that was my logic.

I guess if you're still inviting them on your boat then it isn't quite as bad.
Old    Jarrod Corby (showmedonttellme)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-07-2008, 11:58 AM Reply   
I have a wife and two kids and my time on the water is precious. If its not my boat or Uncle Jessie's (or another 'core' boat with Al or Brodie or Shon), and we arent going to our spot, I probably will pass. Heck, I'll pass if its more than 4 riders! I would love to say I can ride 5 days a week, but if the water is going to be garbage (i.e. Folsom Ocean)and the wake is crappy I'd be better of sucking up to the Wifie.

For instance, my buddy has that terrible 07' RZ2 (sorry tige guys the wake is terrible terrible terrible). He tells me he's got 2500 lbs(not much for a 23 foot beast, and please dont start talking about TAPS), and "the wake is sick at 70". After I laugh at him, I go because he is one of my old friends. I won't go again. My wife backs me up because she doesnt want to listen to me 'wasting' one of my few times i get to ride.

(Message edited by showmedonttellme on October 07, 2008)
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-07-2008, 12:05 PM Reply   
My riding level with just a few invert attempts that are only occasionally landed are not good enough to get too snobbish. I think turning down rides behind someones I/O is the beginning of snobbery and escalates to Nintzel snobbery when you show up with sacs and instructing the owner how to weight HIS boat. I do not know if snobbery is all bad, it can just come across as I am better than thou with some folks, but you get what you want.

As far as snobbery, I am a self proclaimed water snob. I will not ride when the lake is blown out with wind or other boats. Just figure I am wasting gas then.
Old    Isaac Gredinberg (extremeisaac)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-07-2008, 12:06 PM Reply   
man with all this talk about how some guys will only go on certain boats with certain amount of sacs im suprised I dont see all you guys on the Pro Wake Tour. I mean if your that much of a badass, why arent you pro? Pros can get down behind anything including I/O's and outboards..
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-07-2008, 12:11 PM Reply   
Most pathetic mind-set to have. I feel fortunate enough to even have a boat, even if the wake isn't ideal. To me, snob is an understatement.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-07-2008, 12:13 PM Reply   
Isaac, it seems to be a mindset of today. People can't go w2w because there wasn't enough ballast.........

and Andy, props to confessing, but I would never have guessed you to be like this. I figured you could throw down no matter what.
Old    Jarrod Corby (showmedonttellme)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-07-2008, 12:20 PM Reply   
A-dub, he can, he just doesnt want to. Or another comment above "The Pros can throw down on whatever." Yes, they can, but they usually don't. They ride their boats SLUMPIN. Bulee Dat
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-07-2008, 12:21 PM Reply the thread Andy! I'm a little guilty, but don't show up with sacs unless I know they want them. If I really don't like the setup I'll just say we're going out on my ride, and invite them out with us. Most of the time I'll still go out, and just bite the bullet.

(Message edited by ironj32 on October 07, 2008)
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-07-2008, 12:21 PM Reply   
I'm sure Andy kills it by our standards behind anything, but he has a choice on game day, and he's going with the best wake for him.

I don't NEED a huge wake, but it's a hell of a lot more fun. I guess I'm just a pathetic snob because I have more fun on certain wakes.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-07-2008, 12:23 PM Reply   
its fun to occasionally micro wake it. but on the regular its more fun to ride behind a slumpin boat. no biggie. most of the people i ride with weight their boats so i dont really have to worry ab it and either do they.
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-07-2008, 12:31 PM Reply   
this is silly. i'd rather go ride on a boat that doesn't have a waist high wake than sit around on the internet talking about how lame the wake is that my buddies are riding at the moment.
Old    Steve - O (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-07-2008, 12:32 PM Reply   
I think there's a difference between curiosity and snobbery (if that's a word)
Trying to figure a guys set up is way different than when you see or here what they have you turn your nose up and pass.

Not sure exactly who is what on here, but I think there's a difference.

If it's decent out I won't turn down a pull period... from jet ski to X-star I just wanna be on the F-ing water! I may ask them some Q's about they're set up, but if it's not ideal I will still ride.

I am pretty much a newbie (2nd season) and everyone I talk to says time on the water is real important, so I'm just trying to log hours!

Here's an example-- a few weeks ago I was out on a buddies Moomba for the 1st time, and the weather was just crap. Cold, windy, blown out and getting dark. He doesn't really board but wanted me too. So I ride, and the best thing I do is a big HS indy in the flats. But he is totally stoked. I guess what I'm trying to say is it was nice for someone who normally sucks to get some praise!
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-07-2008, 12:35 PM Reply   
Exactly J-rod. Isaac its not like its either a bad wake or nothing at all. Its a choice...either my wake or someone else's. If someone knows they will have more fun/enjoyment behind another wake why select the poorest? That's like saying, screw that hottie, I am going after tubbie. Now, if I am sitting at the dock with my Hobo sign looking for a pull, I take what I can get. Its like going out. There are girls you would take home at 9pm and ones you would take home at 2am...same idea.

There also seems to be a correlation between experience, skill level, driving, and heavily weighted boats. I personally enjoy hitting dubs...actually I love hitting dubs. If someone tells me they are a basic rider, have very little weight in the boat, its pretty much a given they probably don't drive dubs very often.

There are also very different mindsets about riding. There are dudes that are all about riding and take it very seriously, guys that enjoy riding but dont take it too seriously and guys who just want to be on the water regardless of what they are on. Like I said earlier, the better you are the more options you have when it comes to looking for a pull. I bet if a pro called any one of us right now looking for a pull most would oblige, but if some random joe called you looking for a pull you would probably kick it around for a bit first. The better the rider is the more likely they can snake into your group to get a pull. Like someone else said, 4 riders is (usually) the magic number for those of us looking for water time.
Old    walt            10-07-2008, 12:45 PM Reply   


I don't NEED a huge wake, but it's a hell of a lot more fun.

Yep !
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-07-2008, 1:49 PM Reply   
well put M-Dizzle! i couldn't have said it better.
Old    Mike K (mike2001)      Join Date: Feb 2008       10-07-2008, 1:56 PM Reply   
Seems like the people who are snobs about it either have their own boat, or have the option to choose between a bunch of fully sacked out boats. And they take it for granted. Should be happy w/ the opportunities you get.
Old    Andy Nintzel-NautiCurl Wake Shaper (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-07-2008, 1:58 PM Reply   
Sorry if I came off extra Arrogant A-Dub didn’t mean to. I don’t just show up with extra sacs and start barking orders to the boat owner. I ask a head of time if they would be willing to really slam the boat out, if they say no, I suggest we ride my boat or meet out on the lake. I have a TON of people in Minnesota always trying to get me throw down with them, I said yes the first 100 time without asking any q's besides what boat do you have? Then I would get out there and they have no wake by my standards and they are like, "go do a 720," or "lets see a back mobe" and I would get so pumped off them and stoked that I would end up getting worked! Dont get me wrong I mean I can do a backroll without a wake they are just way more fun when you can grab them and blast them in to the flats!

I like what M-Dizzle Said, "its a choice, just like if some offers you a Bud and you like Coors, you will just wait for a Coors, or go home and get one."

M-Dizzle Quote:

"There are dudes that are all about riding and take it very seriously,"

I guess I fall into that caregory becuase 90% of time I ride to progess especially now that I live back in Minnesota full time. We only get about 180 good days (warm enough) to ride. Gotta make them all count!

Damn I hope this doesnt make me sound even more arrogant! Sorry if it does honestly I am cool and down to ride whatever.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-07-2008, 2:16 PM Reply   
You didn't sound arrogant to me, and I'm sure I came across much stronger than I meant to. What you say makes sense, and you are very fortunate to be in that situation. Especially with people wanting to see you at your best, you want to be able to perform that way.

I probably jumped on this so hard because of personal experiences going on lately regarding people (in my area) whining about boat wakes when they can't even do anything. They just think that the only way to ride is behind the new VLX or X-star, and anything else isn't worth it. They can't even jump the wake! To me, a smaller wake would do them better of course. So I'll sound like a snob. I don't like the direction the sport has taken to convince new riders they need enormous wakes with loaded down boats. It's like there should be a skill level required before someone can complain about ballast (not being enough). Most of the people here would fall into being good enough, I just can't believe it when a kid snickers that we only fill up one sack, and then doesn't even have the right position cutting into the wake, or even attempt a toeside jump at best. Yet others are able to throw mobes and 7's without the sack even full. The wake doesn't make the trick, the rider does. I'm off my soapbox now, and am not aiming this at anyone, I just don't get why this is the new trend. Of course they're mostly kids, and can't comprehend actually owning a boat, but they need the best boat available for some reason.
Old    Jarrod Corby (showmedonttellme)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-07-2008, 2:19 PM Reply   
Ur not arrogant Andy. U ride for purpose like a lot of us do. Every once in a while its cool to take a bunch of people and tie up in a cove and blast stereos....most of the time we want to get in, sack up, and ride til the last possible minute before the Wives start yelling.
Old    Brian Miller (brianmiller)      Join Date: Aug 2003       10-07-2008, 3:02 PM Reply   
You know you are a snob when you would rather ride someone else's boat than your own. I used to have a MB direct drive and would rather ride Uncle Jessie's SAN. Made me go out and trade out for a SAN. (shia* that really makes me sound like a snob, since I have not rode with UJ all summer )

I must say I have rode behind a couple of boats this year and liked them all.

Just look at all other action sports. Every sport is looking to go bigger. Skate, BMX, moto, you name it. Just part of the appeal.
Old    Mike Powell (deltaratmike)      Join Date: Jun 2008       10-07-2008, 4:55 PM Reply   
hey matt, you goin ridin anytime soon? i no i aint that good at drivin but i can try harder lol
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-07-2008, 5:36 PM Reply   
Yah Mike, maybe this weekend? After Oct 15, probably more often. Work usually picks up around this time of year. I am definitely looking to get T'ed up on some upple dubs!

(Message edited by liquidmx on October 07, 2008)
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-07-2008, 5:50 PM Reply   
you are only a snob if you show off your expensive boat and try to act like a hardass. I would love to ride with ya someday andy I've never even been on a slammed post-2000's inboard!!!
Old    Al - Pal (watson_134_lf)      Join Date: Nov 2007       10-07-2008, 5:55 PM Reply   
i think you should go out and throw down before you start pushin new habbits. way more respect comes from solid riding then big talk
Old    Keith (tversetti)      Join Date: Jan 2008       10-07-2008, 6:16 PM Reply   
I don't like it when people are satisfied with a mediocre wake and I look forward to the next time I get to ride and am not completely excited for the set.
Old    Dave S (bogiedog1)      Join Date: Jun 2008       10-07-2008, 6:21 PM Reply   
So I'm probably "The Guy" on the other end of this thread, I have a VLX but only been riding for a couple of years. The boat has the wedge two rear tanks and another in front; and I'm not really sure how to distribute any additional weight. But at my level I'm not in a hurry to slam it with more weight until i get better.

Funny thing is, the guys I ride with have been riding probably 4 or 5 years and they have big heel side jumps and that's pretty much it. No inverts, no spins, no toe side W2W and definitely almost no switch riding. One guy can do a one wake 180. But when they ride they gotta have all the weight, the wedge, and be out at 75' so they can do their one trick.

My first year I got caught up in all that and basically wasted that whole year working only heel-side. This year I brought the rope in and started working on progression, working Toe-Side and switch, and proud to say after taking much pun can hit Toeside W2W and close to landing the 180. Whatever, I'm self taught old guy getting into the sport to late, but I still love it.

My long winded point is, if you know how you like the boat to be set up, a guy like myself would be happy have you bring sacs to tweak the wake, because I'm going to learn by watching; not just how you distribute weight but the riding too. If you guys are about furthering the sport, then using the occasional opportunity to teach isn't such a bad thing.
Old    CRASH (vin)      Join Date: May 2007       10-07-2008, 6:28 PM Reply   
I dont own a boat so i could never invite any of you out, but i would like to be invited to ride with you guys.just not to sure if my bag of tricks is good enough to ride your big a$$ wake,i will take what i can get and always have a good time
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-07-2008, 6:39 PM Reply   
I think the more you get spoilt the more of a snob you become. Its pretty hard to have fun with a wake which is 1/2 what your used too. I am also a terrible water snob, if its rough I don't ride, I'm just happy to hang out in the boat with my friends.
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-07-2008, 7:09 PM Reply   
i hate that feeling I get when i get on a boat and the driver doesnt know how to drive and I am compeled to "educate them".

i feel bad for pointing out what they are doing wrong (wrong being subjective depending on wakeboard experience). I try to point out how they are turning and give good ways to avoid it. I give suggestions on how to hold speed even with a heavy or hard pulling rider behind them. Still at the end of the day i do get that feeling that i might be over stepping my boundries for a selfishly good pull.

"you still did flippy things!" we might still be able to ride decent, but i still dont feel as comfortable or willing to push it when these types of things are out of wack. at times it could be ol' mother nature flipping you the bird.
I agree with corby that there are too few times to get too ride, and if you can do something to make it better...go for it!

i will not ride with some people anymore cause they are bad drivers or thier boats throw wash instead of wakes. BUT desperate times call for desperatge measures. i can be like jeckel/hide if i dont ride at leaset once every two or three weeks, and then i will ask a fishing boat to pull me.

my name is al, and i am a wake snob.
Old    Kevin Mandrup (kevin_m)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-07-2008, 7:36 PM Reply   
This is a very interesting post. I personally am not a wake snob. I will go out behind any boat any time. Mostly for the good time. I myself spent most of my time learning how to wakeboard behind a 1988 malibu skier. The smallest wake ever might i add.

The local pros on my lake have the exact same boat cause its a private lake that does not allow boats longer then 20.5 feet and you are not allowed to have wake enhancement. And when we all go out we all are able to throw down off of this wake. we can do moby dicks, crow mobes, toe off 5,s, you name it, my friend shawn can throw some huge raleys and 911's i think he even hit a seven behind my boat once. Thats just what we have to practice with and we just deal with it.

Being behind a nice boat with a huge wake makes it fun too cause you can take all your tricks bigger and such but it just goes to show that you dont need a really expensive boat to throw down...we do it behind a 1988 malibu skier daily. Makes you appreciate it when you get to go out behind a sacked out boat but keeps you from becoming the quote unquote wake snob
Old    Mike Powell (deltaratmike)      Join Date: Jun 2008       10-07-2008, 7:55 PM Reply   
haha fasho bro hit me up. im free all weekend in the morning for sure. we gotta get your toe off 5 dialed and get a grab on that 3 homie! lets hit it up
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-07-2008, 9:53 PM Reply   
ehhh. dont get me wrong, i love a big wake, but sometimes i like to mix it up. sometimes riding behind a boat with a small wake is fun too imo and i certainly won't ever turn down a ride no matter whats pulling me
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       10-07-2008, 10:19 PM Reply   
this thread rocks!!!!!! im a total snob. more about your boating skills and style, im not here for the stripper pole and coolers full of bud, im here to ride. lucky for me i have a few different crews to ride with and fortunate for me everyone of them pushes me to the max everytime i ride. boats to chose from well that a tough choice?

vlx's x3
BC 3- anytime i can, dammmmmmmm!!!!!!
older xstar
04 sante
v215 x2

those are my go boats but i have other options that are not as frequent.
Old    Ryan Shimabukuro (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002       10-07-2008, 10:33 PM Reply   
Guilty as charged Andy. I'm the same way and bring extra sacs myself so you're not alone.
Old    UncleJessie (unclejessie)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-07-2008, 10:52 PM Reply   
This thread is great. I saw it this morning... no posts... I just back from riding and i see like a hundred posts... too funny.

Count me in to. If you don't have it slammed, I'm not interested. Like Corby said, balancing between wakn, our families, friends, work, etc, means I don't waste my time riding crappy water or crappy boats. I'm not 16, or 22 or at an age where all I need to know is 'when and where'. I would rather hang with my wife and do something SHE wants to do than go wakn in bad conditions or behind a crappy boat... BTW, I do bring sacs sometimes and if needed, I ask to pull them out!


Brian M... when are we riding...?????
Old    Jeff Hill (hillbilly)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-07-2008, 11:00 PM Reply   
Well I guess I know why I left Shasta with a full tank J-rod & Bryan.....LOL
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-07-2008, 11:38 PM Reply   
"Count me in to. If you don't have it slammed, I'm not interested. "

YESSS! That was sweet dude!

Bryan, I knew you were all about the riding the first time I saw you take a 45 minute set! Seriously, you ride hard buddy.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-07-2008, 11:49 PM Reply   
I love this subject. Half of us are snobs, and half of us are perfectly content just being on the water.

One of the best threads ever!

Jeff, yeah. If the xstar is near, I have to ride it. It's my first pick.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-08-2008, 6:38 AM Reply   
snob. n.
1. One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors.

2.One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect.

3. One who despises people or things regarded as inferior, especially because of social or intellectual pretension.

No doubt most of us PREFER a macking wake and will try to line up rides accordingly, but the snobbish aspect depends on how you make others feel with 'inferior' skills or boat set ups . Rebuffing rides after administering the 'wake quiz' can certainly come off as snobbish. Personally, I wouldn't be offended if you showed up at my boat with extra sacs and threw down, but others may take it another way.
Old    Andy Nintzel-NautiCurl Wake Shaper (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-08-2008, 8:55 AM Reply   
I agree with J-rod! This thread is super interesting, I never thought It would get such a big response or be so evenly mixed of snobs and just plan pull lovers!

This might be my new tag line!!


"my name is al, and i am a wake snob."

Maybe I will just change it to, "my name is andy, and I am a wake snob."`
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-08-2008, 9:17 AM Reply   
for sure Bryan's a doggggg. dude took like 6 sets one day. i was sore just from him telling me that.

Bryan wtf you never called me back. i'm a hit you up ab this weekend. come hit some might just win some money
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-08-2008, 10:06 AM Reply   
Good stuff Mike, I will hit you up. The 5's are solid (again, damn 3 weeks in Europe! haha), 3's are getting a LOT better with the later more monkey arms, the handle is in nice and tight... thinking its time to add mo spins to em.

I agree with you Wakeviolater(Al) about the driving thing. I have actually been on both ends. I have brought a few friends into the sport and taught them how to drive. I have also been behind the wheel towing some big dogs and asked for instruction on dubs etc (since those are the most personal). Honestly, I have said several times "dude, if there is anything you want me to do differently just holla, no hard feelings". Anyone who got mad about some driving tips (especially coming from a rider better than themselves) would be a good indicator for a potentially bad pull. IMHO

I also don't think its a spoiled thing (at least for me). I personally worked HARD to network with people, get pulls, get better and generally put myself out there to find good riding partners. I went on A LOT of trips with different crews before finding a few that matched. I am not saying all the others were bad, but it took work to ride with the people I ride with now. Now if I fell into that situation it would be one thing. But driving 1.5 hrs each way to ride 2 sets on weekend days doesn't seem like spoiled to me. Especially since I learned behind a Jet boat, then moved to an 1989 Sunsetter before buying my current 00 vlx.
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-08-2008, 10:43 AM Reply   
I think it depends on the situation and what your expectations are. Like Eubanks said I enjoy meeting newbie's / teaching them the ropes but usually enjoy it alot more behind my boat. I am always wanting to progress and usually working on perfecting something so I am a wake snob when it comes to a straight riding day but will go out and ride behind anything because there is the challenge of landing your regular stuff behind a subpar wake.

You should know wether or not you feel the trick. I need time to warmup to every different wake. ie. SAN vs. LSV It is definately alot more fun to sack out and see what you can get out of a specific wake but I would have to say I am case by case snob because it doesn't always have to be the biggest or best out there.

Do any of you ever drain everything and try to land your trick list?
It puts a new perspective on things.
Old    Andy Nintzel-NautiCurl Wake Shaper (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-08-2008, 11:00 AM Reply   

Always with the good points! I couldnt agree more it took some serious effort to get to the point where I had a solid crew of slammed out boats to ride behind. I too started behind an 18 foor I/O, then moved to a 19 foot ski brendella with the smallest wake ever before I graduated to An X-star in 2001.
Old    Shon G. (shon_g)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-08-2008, 11:03 AM Reply   
"my name is Shon, and i am a wake snob."
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       10-08-2008, 11:15 AM Reply   
I ride whenever and however i can, except sea rays

I ride behind a fully loaded vride where jumping is basically effortless, but then i go and ride behind ^^ Kevins 88 skier posted above. It makes me work harder to get the same height. When riding behind a smaller boat just practice your switch tricks and just have fun with it.

I can be a water snob though, i'm so spoiled with riding butter any day of the week where i live so when i go out to more populated lakes i hate riding in chop.
Old    Jeff Hill (hillbilly)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-08-2008, 9:22 PM Reply   
It's all good J-Rod I still need that pull behind it!!!

Shon you are just a SNOB period....LOL
Old    Arun Frances (poon)      Join Date: Dec 2001       10-09-2008, 1:38 AM Reply   
I will ride behind anything weighted or not... I just appreciate that I have the ability to just be able strap into bindings.

Stay humble because wakeboarding can be taken from you in a second.
Old    Scott Dearduff (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-09-2008, 7:59 AM Reply   
I assume that if I am going to ride with someone else for the day that I am just there to meet new people and mix things up! If I am working on something then I will stay on my lake and ride with one of the submarines here. As a vet if someone new comes to my house and insist on bringing their sacs they can stay on the dock because I know they are just going to whine about something on the lake(chop, shape,speed their run, board, even their seat in the boat). If they have come out a couple times and bring some weight thats different.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-09-2008, 8:32 AM Reply   
Jeff, We're slammed with stuff for the next couple of weekends. Anytime after that, you and Julz are welcome to come ride. It's going to be too cold for me soon. I might just stay in the boat and drink beer while you ride!
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-09-2008, 9:37 AM Reply   
I find it pretty weak that some people on here think that because some us of prefer to ride in a sacked out boat (whether it’s our own, or some one elses), that we are not humble or we are taking this sport for granted. Are we Wake Snobs? Probably. But, not humble, not happy, taking things for granted…I think not.

“Stay humble because wakeboarding can be taken from you in a second.”

“Seems like the people who are snobs about it either have their own boat, or have the option to choose between a bunch of fully sacked out boats. And they take it for granted. Should be happy w/ the opportunities you get.”

I work super hard to own my boat, and I work super hard to get the $ to be able to afford to load it up and ride with 4500 lbs of ballast. I fail to see how this means we are taking it for granted. Since “wakeboarding can be taken from you in a second”, why would we not want to maximize the experience every time we are out. If we working hard and making sacrifices in other areas of our life, how are we not humble? With someone saying “Should be happy w/ the opportunities you get”…how can you say that we are not happy with it? I’m super happy that I have the opportunity to ride behind the boat that I work so hard for!

So if someone could please enlighten me on how we are taking things for granted, or are not humble, I would be much obliged.
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       10-09-2008, 10:00 AM Reply   
I prefer to ride behind certain shame in that, imo. I wouldn't be surprised if someone who is trying switch peterose's wanted a little extra weight and wouldn't be insulted to add a little extra.
Old    Dan Smith (dansmith)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-09-2008, 10:23 AM Reply   
Or, in you case, any weight...
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-09-2008, 10:46 AM Reply   
Reading this thread has made me realize how hypersensitive everyone is in this PC world we live in.
Let's all just agree wakeboarding is greatness now matter how you like your boat sacked out. :P
Old    Mike K (mike2001)      Join Date: Feb 2008       10-09-2008, 11:02 AM Reply   
Jay, I'm more so referring to those who have options like this

vlx's x3
BC 3- anytime i can, dammmmmmmm!!!!!!
older xstar
04 sante
v215 x2

Not everyone has those opportunities...or their choices are an older I/O, fishing boat, or a jet ski. I should have taken the line out about owning your own boat. Not to take away from you or anyone that has worked hard to own one, I'm part of that group! If you feel your ride is better than someone else's and you invite them out on yours instead of going on theirs, nothing wrong with that.


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