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Old    Mispella (jon43)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-18-2008, 12:13 PM Reply   
Malibu 247, Enzo 24, X 45
looking for outside opinions
I am not trying to stir the pot!!!!!
I am just looking for some pros and cons from current boat owners
Old    Twitch Hambling (themxercr85)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-18-2008, 12:25 PM Reply   
well since i have a mc and malibu sux and so does centurion i have to say x-45.

kidding! I have seen a FAT A$$ wake come off the back of a 247, there is a picture somewhere on ww of an orange and black 247 with a big guy in a harness that is attatched to the tower leanin wayy out.
Old    David Mann (moonshine)      Join Date: Jun 2008       09-18-2008, 1:52 PM Reply   
Go with the Malibu 247...
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-18-2008, 2:44 PM Reply   
I would probably say that the Enzo does the best with the least amount of weight. The X-45 can throw a huge and long surf wave but it needs a lot of weight. It is also better on the drivers side for some reason. My buddies x-45 has 750's plumbed in the rear and with the surfside stock and addition 750 we had to add 5 -7 people on that side of the boat before it got really good.
Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-18-2008, 2:58 PM Reply   
the enzo makes a good wave, i heard the malibu doesnt make that good of a wave
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-18-2008, 4:25 PM Reply   
Disclaimer: Iím not affiliated with a boat company and Iím not a promotional boat owner. Both Centurion and Malibu have sponsored wakesurfing events that Iíve organized.

I've never surfed behind a MC.

I've been behind an LSV with 3,000 pounds. IMO that wake wasn't as good as the wake behind my boat. We used a VLX for a wakesurf competition in 2006 and 2007. the VLX make a very good wake with low effort.

I'm a Centurion owner. I have an Enzo. I put a 750 in the back locker and a 750 in front of the midship tank and get nice long clean wake. An Enzo sack is probably about the perfect ballast set up for the Enzo.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       09-18-2008, 5:22 PM Reply   
Best boat I have seen for wakesurfing both sides with minimal effort is the Sanger V237. Most boats have a bad side. Check and see if the side you want is good or bad. If you want both sides make sure the boat will do that with about the same weighting. No matter what you read the Enzo will not work well for both sides. Great on one side not on the other, hence they came out with Rightsurf model with reverse rotation prop. Demo as many boats setup for wakesurfing as possible. Don't find out after you have spent a lot of money that it won't work for you.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-18-2008, 5:38 PM Reply   
Second Dennis' opinion though I haven't riddin behind the V237. I have a Sanger V215 (same hull design)and it throws a beautiful wave on both sides of the boat without changing the amount of weight from side to side. In other words if you run 1500# on port side that same 1500#'s will throw an equally nice wave starboard. All the pictures/videos that I have seen of the 237 make my mouth drool and one day it will be mine.
Old    Mispella (jon43)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-22-2008, 10:15 AM Reply   
thanks everyone
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-22-2008, 12:05 PM Reply   
Old    JF (inland_surfer)      Join Date: Aug 2002       09-22-2008, 1:34 PM Reply   
We ride behind a lot of boats and the Enzo stills got it!, if it didn't
we wouldn't ride behind them.

Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-22-2008, 3:20 PM Reply   
the best boat is the one you get to ride behind.

Seriously though, IMO having both sides with good wakes is more desirable than having 1 side perfect. Sure I could probably ride a little better with a perfect setup but it won't be as much fun. To me wakesurfing is all about having fun with friends or family and I feel that's best achieved with a balanced setup.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-22-2008, 5:14 PM Reply   
My Enzo regular surf wake is amazing. Iíve been setting up with one 750 in the back locker, one 750 in front of the midship tank and Iíve been filling the midship tank. That a fairly simple set up and much like the Enzo sack.

I ride with a lot of goofy stance riders, my kids are goofy, and most of my nieces are goofy. My Enzo goofy wake is awful. On the goofy side we get a fountain spray directed right at the rider. Weíve moved weight all around. Iíve also tried a few hardware experiments.

I have a manual trim tab. A friend told me that I needed to set the trim tab down for a good goofy wake. Iíve set the manual tab down as far as I can. I still get a bad spray at the goofy rider.

In an effort to set the trim tab even lower I built a 1 inch wedge and attached it under the trim tab. With the exaggerated trim tab I think that the spray was worse on the goofy side. Iíd say my experiment is telling me to set the trim tab up for the goofy side. Next time out Iíll try setting the trim tab up.

I attempted to remove the trim tab this spring but the screws are set pretty firmly. Maybe Iíll try again.

Other than not surfing the goofy side how do you set up the Enzo goofy side?
Old    guido (bluto)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-22-2008, 5:58 PM Reply   
How about everyone be honest about their affiliations.
Ed, Thank you for being honest about the goofy side issues on an Enzo. That is far more helpful to someone getting ready to spend $60,000 on a new boat.
Old    JF (inland_surfer)      Join Date: Aug 2002       09-22-2008, 7:45 PM Reply   
We took out Rebecca Ort from Switzerland after Worlds on Lake Sammamish - she want me to set up my Enzo goofy - I said only this once will the boat lean to to dark side! I matched the weight on the other side, but found out that I had to add more up front and on the right side to get the wake cleaner. I did not use the trim tab because it would mess up the wake. One interesting thing I noticed was we run 31 hundred RPM at 13 mph on the left side and I had to boost up the speed to 14.5 and the RPM were only 29 hundred [ weird ! ] any way heres some pictures of
Rebecca Ort on the dark side of our 24'. I know if I had more time I could have made it a little better.

Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-22-2008, 9:18 PM Reply   

How about you? All I've ever seen from you on here is negative reponses to Drew's posts. Why the personal vindetta? There's obviously a reason.
Old    Mark Fletcher (fletch_tx)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-22-2008, 9:51 PM Reply   
my 08 Malibu 23LSV throws a great surf wake on both sides...I think it's a little better on the goofy side which is good for me!
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-23-2008, 7:19 AM Reply   
I have road behind and MC older X-Star and we put some weight in the back and had a good wake to ride. I now have a Centurion Avalanche and we only use the stock ballist and we have a great wake with just 3 of us in the boat. I am not saying one is better than the other, I am just saying that they both did the job and we have a great time, which is what it really is all about.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-23-2008, 9:18 AM Reply   
I would have to agree with wardovision. Having a boat that you can weight easily on both sides is a great boat. I spent some time with Dennis Horton at the NorCal comp and he was giving me tips on weighting, and why he uses lead. He inspired me to buy some pop bags so now all of my ballast is completely hidden, which is another good mark for a boat. Easy to weight and good clean wake on both sides, all ballast hidden, and still some room for storage.

I have achieved that on my Tige 24Ve. I have seen that personally on a Sanger v237 with Dennis. I am sure there are others, but from what I have seen personally with enzos, and on this forum, it doesn't seem to be one of them. It greatly favors one side, which is not bad, especially if you only want to surf that side. We take people out all the time, teaching others how to surf, and I have six kids and 2 of us are regular and the rest goofy. Important for us to have both sides.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-23-2008, 6:21 PM Reply   
We've had really good results with the Centurion Avalanche at Nationals last year and this. We get a very good wake on both sides. The Enzo goofy wake is simply disappointing, glad I surf regular.

I have three other idea to try on the goofy side. Not sure I'll get around to trying them this year.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-23-2008, 6:45 PM Reply   
My question to that is: If they are equally as good on both sides (enzo) then why the "Surf Right" option? You wouldn't need it if they are equal on both sides.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-23-2008, 6:48 PM Reply   
Who said the Enzo was equally good on both sides?
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-23-2008, 9:18 PM Reply   
Oh I miss read that sorry.
Old    waterdog (h20k9)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-23-2008, 9:56 PM Reply   
hey show,try 200lb on the swim platform(starboardside),750 in the rear starboard side locker,250 in the rear port locker..driver,3people sitting backs to the rail,none on the rear person moving around fine tuning the curl..the idea is to list the boat more than the stock placement of the weight allows.the stock tanks placement of the weight is too linear.move it up on the seat all the way up under where the cup holders are..trip out
Old    Shad Williams (shad_s_williams)      Join Date: Jul 2008       09-24-2008, 12:13 AM Reply   
The MasterCraft X-45 w/ the after market ballast kit is the most ridiculous thing that I have ever seen!!! Very nice!!!
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-24-2008, 12:57 PM Reply   
I think I have the same basic problems as Bigshow with his goofy wake. I am going to try a 3 blade prop and maybe a wakeplate. My idea would be to force some of the prop wash down, thus cleaning the face. My prop wash shoots straight onto the curl of the goofy wake. If I can't figure it out, I will prob end up buying a tige. My buds 22v works perfect on both sides. I own the boat(i'm regular), but everyone I ride with is goofy! Weird

Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-24-2008, 1:01 PM Reply   
Y, on my 24Ve, in certain situations I can see prop wash messing up the wake. Bring the TAPS plate down always fixes that, so it may help in your case.

I know what you mean, I am regular, but all buy 1 of my kids is goofy. Even though goofy is supposed to be left handed, not the norm, even when we teach people, more are goofy than regular. We must attract odd people.
Old    Mark Fletcher (fletch_tx)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-24-2008, 1:06 PM Reply   
It's funny how there are so many regular footers in the world. I read somewhere that 90% of the surf breaks in the world favor goofy footers. Hoooray for Goofy Footers!!!
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-24-2008, 3:18 PM Reply   
GUIDO -- Sorry to not clear myself. I thought it was pretty obvious by now that I ride for centurion. I also thought it would be funny to type that because sooner or later someone on hear with alot of time on there hands would call me out on it like it is a big deal. Read the Whole the post you can't beat the wake behind an enzo. And yes I ride for centurion But i don't own an enzo. but seriously it is the best!!!!!!!

What happen to the days of saying something to be funny.
Live alittle and enjoy stupid humor
Old    Fly Girl (flywatchingall)      Join Date: Apr 2008       09-24-2008, 3:41 PM Reply   
It's ok for the djjamesz and the mob group to promote boards and wakesurf mag. every time they get a chance but, no one else Drew.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-24-2008, 4:59 PM Reply   
Fly Girl, David Williams has been making a point about Wakesurf forum posts with obvious promotional intent. Itís hard to tell where to draw the line, it is for me anyway.

Duffy and Robert, I donít think the prop wash really enters in the equation that much. That said Jim G. changed to a 3-blade on his Avy resulting in a stellar wake. Water moved by the prop goes back and down. I think the problem is related more to the sheets of water running just under the surface of the hull and how those sheets come together once they pass the transom.

In the case of the Enzo Iím now suspecting that the those sheets and the trim tab are responsible for generating the upward plume.

To make a good goofy wake you need the sheet coming off of the starboard side to rush around the corner and fold over top of the sheets originating from under the hull. The sheet coming off of the starboard side of my Enzo is not fast enough and not forceful enough to do the job. I could increase the force by installing a port side trim tab and setting it low in the water. The trim tab would list the boat. Listing the boat might help. What I think will help more is the additional drag the trim tab would place on the port side. The additional drag would make the starboard corner lead the port corner. More static pressure would build up on the starboard side and therefore the water coming off that corner would have more energy and fold over the wake making a clean face.

What Iím proposing is dog tracking the boat to one side or the other will clean up the surf wake face. Too much steering takes the push away from the wake. You can make the boat dog track by adding drag to one side. Iíve experimented with dog tracking on my old boat by replacing the tracking fins with intentionally offset tracking fins. Iíve also made drag experiments. Simple drag looks to be promising. Trim tabs should provide drag and add list.

Well thatís my theory any way.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-24-2008, 5:08 PM Reply   
For sure Drew, how dare you promote a product you endorse! By the way I am personally trying to learn to ride both reg. and goofy. (right now I am goofy)and ride starboard side. Have lots of fun riding backside, but also love facing the wave on my Centurion Avalanche. oops can I say that?
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-24-2008, 5:13 PM Reply   
Sorry David, I forgot the guidlines, my bad. But I think Drew was just trying to be honest anyway. I know he owns an Avy, so yea I agree Show, where do you draw the line? way to confusing.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-25-2008, 5:45 AM Reply   
"way to confusing." Really? I was bugged by the fact that we were singled out, but it's Dave's house, play by his rules or find somewhere else to play, is what I concluded. I got over that, but also I don't want to be a thread Nazi, as self-policing was suggested. If we lose the forum due to folks ignoring the guidelines, I think we'll all know the various folks to thank.

It seems pretty clear to me, maybe I'm wrong, but I interpret it as: if your only contribution to content is: buy my (or my product is the BEST EVER!) boat/board/magazine/video/product/etc AND there is a monetary incentive for your glowing opinion/referral to another website AND you wouldn't be here otherwise - don't post.

It's been my experience that those who are "about" the community err in favor of the community. Those who are about profit, err in favor of making a buck even if that is at the expense of the community.
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-25-2008, 8:01 AM Reply   
actually David said it is perfectly acceptable to answer a question in which you feel your product (board, boat or otherwise) would directly benefit the issue in question.

It would have been a rule violation if Drew started a thread stating that Centurion was the best boat on the market but he didn't. He simply answered a question he felt qualified to answer.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-25-2008, 8:22 AM Reply   
I'm not sure what you are responding to directly wardo, I can't imagine that repeating the name of a boat 27 times (or however many) is advertising, or would "directly benefit the issue in question", either. As Drew expressed he was just "fun'in".

Maybe it's just me, I don't see the ambiguity in what's acceptable or not as suggested by Show and Anthonyv911, but certainly in my mind, if there is a doubt, I think it's safe to say that those that are a part of the community would err in favor of preserving the community and those that aren't post for pesonal benefit.
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-25-2008, 8:33 AM Reply   
Does that include you no longer being able to talk about TWP since James now has a pro model by them?
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-25-2008, 8:51 AM Reply   
huh? You're on a fishing expedition Sean. I'm not condeming Drew in here, if that is your concern.

I think it does, at least in the context of "best board ever". I'll never recommend a JW Pro model on WW. In a thread where I attempted to respond to an ollie question, I posted up pictures of James on a Roush board, rather than his pro model...certainly not an exact science, but I'm making an effort. Also, I have a few boards that Mike asked us to test and I don't post any of that here on WW, I have posted on other sites that allow that sort of thing in the last few days.

Also, James has no monetary agreement with TWP, just the name on a board. However, I think that is confusing for the general public, so I err in favor of the community, at least I think I do.
Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       09-25-2008, 11:45 AM Reply   
Personally I would rather have a professional's input and presence on a forum, understanding that they are the pros and part of their 'job' is to move product. Murray makes these kind of posts occasionally on the wb forum, so why can't Drew do the same here? If Rusty or Danny were to start posting and talking about their products, nobody would complain. This whole grey area, however, is probably why they don't.
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-25-2008, 1:15 PM Reply   

I understand what your saying about posting pics with james on differentboards, but in a way your hurting james. We are riders who are professional athletes who have sponsorships and endorsements with companies that back us. Our return to them is to promote their company whether it be by riding there board, wearing there clothes drinking there drinks or recommending there product to people in forums in the internet. I don't see why this is such a big deal to everyone on this website. This is a cool site but i think it is getting a little to tight. If i asked about a board I would expect james to go on and tell me why he thinks his board is the best and chase tell me why his board is the best and myself telling why my board is the best. Woudln't you want to hear about the board from the person who is responsible for the shape and way it rides. But apparently that offends people on this site so no one does it( except me to stir up the pot alittle)

and on the note the best riding combination is a CENTURION ENZO with a SWITCHBLADE, riding a PHASE 5 DREW DANIELO CARBON PRO MODEL, wearing ...LOST BOARDSHORTS, while Drinking a ...LOST ENERGY DRINK with HOVEN shades on to protect myself from the sun.

I left some out but I am sure knowing this is suppose to be funny someone will be negative about it>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       09-25-2008, 1:26 PM Reply   
I agree with Drew. Let the (sponsored) Pros do what they do & come here and talk about it.

BTW, Drew, I love ...Lost boardshorts.
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-25-2008, 1:27 PM Reply   
Thanks DTW..
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-25-2008, 1:55 PM Reply   
I had to laugh at the huge gap with the "best" at the end. Drew, I don't argue your point, only that David was pretty specific about what he felt was allowable and not allowable. Remember the huge banner we dealt with for a few months? This is Dave's house, he gets to make the rules. In my opinion, if you want to post here, you follow his requests. I don't think that's unreasonable. You have a valid point, Drew, if you feel the restrictions are too tight, shoot him an email and request an expansion. I don't condone "stirring-the-pot", here.

In my opinion, and I think you share this opinion too, if David were to say - don't mention your product or I'll shut the forum down, I'd stop out of respect for the others.

In your specific example about James responding to a question posed by a "legitimate" user, I think that's within the scope allowable by WW. As Wardo pointed out, though, James couldn't start such a discussion.

I may be in the minority, but I honestly don't think there is as much ambiguity as folks make out like there is. However, in a situation where I have a doubt, I just refrain here on WW. There are tons of other sites -,, etc that don't have this "advertising" issue and I post there, instead. The reason I refrain, when I am doubtful of the propriety of an action, is out of respect for the community and the fact that I consider myself a guest here on WW.

If you're certain that your actions are within the guidelines that David has set, then you're golden.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-25-2008, 2:03 PM Reply   
I would like to add something as someone who is newer to the sport and comps and such. More than anything, I have appreciated people like surfdad who may be affiliated, but still give an honest answer. Both him and James are quick to tell of why they love their TWP boards, but have also been very helpful regarding other boards and with lots of information. In contrast, we got to know Sean Cummings at the NorCal comp. Good kid and a great rider. However, it was obvious from talking to him I wasn't going to get a lot of information from him unless it was about Inland. I don't fault that at all. My point being I don't think surfdad is hurting his son at all, and is doing him a service teaching him to be loyal, and yet honest at the same time.

Why bother asking an expert/pro, if all they are going to do is show you one side of the coin?
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-25-2008, 2:19 PM Reply   
I wish someone would sponsor me, so I would have this problem J/K lol
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-25-2008, 3:09 PM Reply   
^^^^^^^ I feel you brutha.
Old    Moe (nauti4life)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-25-2008, 4:10 PM Reply   
Just wondering why Nautique is not an option?
Old    Mark Fletcher (fletch_tx)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-25-2008, 4:43 PM Reply   
The Nautique 220 and 236/230 throw some of the best surfwakes out there....on both sides!
Old    guido (bluto)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-25-2008, 5:55 PM Reply   
Honesty will always be the best answer. Posting one boat is the best without pictures and weighting setups is not helpful to the consumer. If I took Drew's advise and dropped the 60,000 for an Enzo because it is the best I would be unhappy to learn later that the goofy wake is less than awful as the pictures and stories above point out. If someone on this forum wants to post that this board is the best than someone forking out 5 or 6 hundred is only out a weeks salary and the board will probably ride well as most of the boards presented do. The poster should try to provide guidance to the consumer as to style of riding, ability and weight. If you can't give a honest appraisal of the pros and cons on whatever it is because of affiliation than you shouldn't post a response. Not every item is the perfect fit for every consumer. If you want a great regular side surf boat get an Enzo just be informed that there is a down side as well. Post pictures and or video on whatever boat as proof of the capabilities of the boat. Don't offer proof and your imput is worthless.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-25-2008, 7:01 PM Reply   
As an engineer Iím always working to optimize, maximize, or minimize something. You can make a machine that is specialized for one thing or you can make a machine that is general. Performance of the specialized machine will be better than the general purpose machine. Although the general machine may be lower performing at one task or another, overall itís higher performing at more tasks.

So maybe the Enzo is a specialized machine that can be amazing on one wake and not the other. Optionally, with ďSurf RightĒ the Enzo can be amazing on the side of your choice. The Enzo wakeboard wake looks really good, even without ballast. Iíve yet to try wakeboarding behind the Enzo.

Is one boat good on both sides and better than the Enzo Ė I simply donít have enough access to boats to know. The regular side wake is very nice and doesnít take a lot of effort or weight to develop.
Old    mike thomas (mikeytommy)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-25-2008, 11:48 PM Reply   
here's the wave behind my moomba lsv. this is about 2000lbs in the back corner + a few people, no weight up front. it gets pretty thick and fast.

Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-26-2008, 8:43 AM Reply   

I have surfed both frontside and backside behind the same enzo. As long as you have a switch blade and a little weight it is no problem. you wouldn't be dissapointed at all. So again and enzo has the best shape and size wave out there.
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-26-2008, 8:45 AM Reply   
I have an older Supra SunSport 1987 with a hydrolic wakeplate we have found that putting it far down makes the wake very small. Put it down just a little bit to clean and crispen the wake and add a little bit of height and steepness. Manual wakeplate should be like 1/4" to 1/2" down, hydrolic is just a couple taps of the button. IMHO.

Love the wakes! Check out my post on with my boat make as the title in the surf thread if ya wanna see my wakes...:-)
Old    Ken Toby (towboat_222)      Join Date: Feb 2007       09-26-2008, 8:59 AM Reply   
The goofy side at the Worlds where pretty good. I own a 240 Enzo personally. The regluar side is great the goofy side I have had no complaints 1000lbs tab at first mark and 13.5 mph clean as anything Iv seen. got people who have every other type of boat wanting to surf behind mine.As far as the Drew bashing ride as good as Drew and Ill see what you have to say.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-26-2008, 9:28 AM Reply   
"The goofy side at the Worlds where pretty good. "

Right, I think that is the contention, at the WWSC, the goofy side had a reverse rotation prop. The general concensus is that the regular rotation prop Enzo has issues with the darkside wake.

In terms of the 'blade every Enzo I've been behind the 'blade destroys the wake on the "opposite" side - that is the darkside for regular rotation and regular side for the reverse rotation. Most folks remove it to surf that "opposite" side. If you've got the answer Ken, be sure to post it up - that would save folks a ton of grief.

Guys, I may be wrong here, but I swear I've been behind a reverse rotation Enzo with a 'blade. The darkside wake was stellar. After removing the 'blade and loading up with the same basic placement, the regular side wake had a clean face and no secondary lip. Not as strong as the darkside, but it was good.

Is it possible that is the answer? That the reverse rotation option allows surfing both sides? Does anyone have a reverse rotation Enzo and can they speak to this? Or am I just losing my mind?! :-)
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-26-2008, 10:17 AM Reply   
I rode behind A reverse rotation Enzo at lake powell. It belonged to M&M watersports. We rode all the goofy footers and then I did a set backside on it. The wake was amazing. We then moved some people and weight a little flipped the side swipe to the goofy side and the regular wake was clean and really good. was it as good as the goofy no. And you won't find that behind any boat. One aside will always be better than the other depending on prop rotation. But it is still really good on one side of an enzo and pure BLISS on the other. Buy an ENZO!! HAHA
Old    Mark Fletcher (fletch_tx)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-26-2008, 10:30 AM Reply   
Drew....I always thought that prop rotation was the #1 determining factor for surf-wake quality, but my Malibu throws a better goofy side wake and it SHOULD throw a better regular side wake. I think the same is true for the Nautique 230/236's as well.
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-26-2008, 12:42 PM Reply   
Thats interesting. I am not really familiar with either but that is interesting and good to know. i have surfed behind some nautiques and it was a pretty good regular wake but we didn;'t load the other side to see the difference. Thanks for the info..
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-26-2008, 1:35 PM Reply   
I was IN a Sanger v237 used at the NorCal comp. Dennis Horton gave my son a demo ride on the goofy side, and then he quickly changed the weight to other side and I saw James Walker and Chase Hazen Surf on the regular side. The wake was virtually identical on both sides. Here are a couple of pics I snapped when the pros were surfing.




I have a Tige 24Ve that we weight identically on both sides, I just make small changes to speed and TAPS for each side. The wake is great on both sides.


Old    Ken Toby (towboat_222)      Join Date: Feb 2007       09-26-2008, 2:42 PM Reply   
I dont run a blade and I dont run to much weight. I tryed a bunch of weight and all it did was mess the wake up you can go to far with anything. I talked to drew and the guys at Inland Surfer and they both helped alot. On goffey side I run 2 tanks port full both tanks on stb full and 2 260 bags on stb. Tab is set at first mark and 13.5 mph
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-26-2008, 3:22 PM Reply   
Robert, that's a nice goofy wake.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-26-2008, 3:23 PM Reply   
Thanks, we mostly surf goofy, but also reg.
Old    guido (bluto)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-26-2008, 5:10 PM Reply   
Thanks for the additional information. Now post some pictures and let all of us know what " a little weight" means in real terms. Based on the pictures of the goofy wake behind regular rotation Enzo's ( see above) I think IMO the goofy wake is a disappointment and it also is a disappointment in real life by my experience. I was burned by the hype it was an expensive lesson I would not want others to make.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       09-26-2008, 6:51 PM Reply   
Here is a Sanger V237 goofy wake. This is the first time I had been on the boat and we used the exact weight I use in my Sanger v215. Stock ballast in front stock ballast on starboard side 5oo lbs of lead and sac on top of lead to fill locker about 350 lbs. 1800 lbs total. The pictures posted by Robert the weight was the same on the regular side.

Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-27-2008, 6:31 AM Reply   

That is your opinion. I have no p[ictures because I am usually riding and I don't own an enzo to get some. I have done numerous clinics with 1 boat and switched the weight and adjusted the switchblade and haven't had anyone complain yet. On that note i am finished with this thread because you are doing all you can to prove me wrong. Someone asked what the best boat for surfing is and I gave them my opinion. You feel the way you do and so do I. Sorry you didn't enjoy your enzo. but reading this thread there are alot of people who do. So why waste time and bash other companies. Give your 2 cents and leave it at that.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-27-2008, 10:23 AM Reply   
So I am torn between an 2002 Tige 23v or an 2003 Tige 22v. I know the 23v has spray pockets and the 22v doesn't, but which would throw a better wave? They are both 102 beam and I could fill the pockets in at some point. I have actually never ridden behind a 23v or a 24v. I like the idea of extra room and storage.

Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-28-2008, 7:04 AM Reply   
Hey Duffy - just addressing the surf wake between those two boats (ignoring resale or any other factor or any other boats) if I were in your shoes, I'd opt for the 22 without the spray pockets.

I've owned a 21V and my current boat the 23V. Both of them had the spray pockets. We did a little wakeboarding yesterday and the lip has a slight riffle starting out at about 30 feet or so and it curls decidedly around 80 feet. I believe that holds true at surf speeds also. That curl, becomes the effective end of your pocket. When you are attempting to learn surface threes or anything that might require a slightly longer pocket, you'll appreciate the lack of spray pockets.

The difference between my 23 and 21 was mostly in the bow. I believe that Tige added about a foot starting just around the observers seat and another foot or so in the bow. The extra length in that area didn't create additional storage or aid the surf wake.

The rear storage, where you'd keep ballast, was the same dimension.

Also, the smaller boat takes a little less weight to initiate list, so the same amount of ballast would have a greater effect.

If you ever make it to NorCal you're welcome to a pull behind our 23V. I just saw this ad over at James has a segment in the Surftech ad on page 8. All the footage of James was shot behind our 23V. That should give you an idea of the wake, as well as, showing how the curl impacts the pocket length.

The ad is here imbedded on page 8.

That's my 2 cents.

(Message edited by surfdad on September 28, 2008)
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-28-2008, 10:26 AM Reply   
Cool video, and my buds 22v looks like it throws a bigger longer wave. Thanks for all the help. I'm pretty handy so I might, if I find a deal, buy an older 21 or 23v and fill in the spray pockets. If not then I will just buy a 22v. I would love to come visit, but if I did, then I would prob want to go ocean surfing! I am land locked in north idaho! It's starting to get cold up here.

Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-28-2008, 10:38 AM Reply   
We're only 2 or so hours from the Pacific - bring your wetsuit. :-)

If you undertake that spray pocket fill-in, please post up a step-by-step. I've often wondered how the new polyester would hold up on the old after a few seasons, also how thick you'd have to go with CSM or 'glass.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-28-2008, 1:22 PM Reply   
I am trying to decide which boat would be the best for wakesurfing on both sides. My two boat choices are down to either 22v or 24v tige or a sanger v215 or v230. I love centurions, but I have personally seen a terrible goofy wake on an enzo. I need the wakes to be equal, and at the same time awesome! I would also love to pick up an older boat, say an 02-05.

Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-28-2008, 1:46 PM Reply   
One thing about the sangers, they are great boats but do have a lower freeboard, or distance from the water line to the upper deck. A friend of mine has a 210, and when he surfs, water actually flows over the corner of the sundeck. The 237 is better than the other sangers I have seen, but it is still pretty low, and water was lapping up that high in the chop as we rode.

One of the nice things about the tige, is they have a much higher freeboard. If you look at the pictures I posted above, you will see even weighted, my upper deck is a good distance from the water. Even when I get about 2000 lbs in there, the water is just to rub rail.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       09-28-2008, 6:24 PM Reply   
If the lake you are riding on is not like our lakes out here in Cal the Sanger V215 is a great boat. I have a v215 and except for the freeboard issue the wake is great on both sides. The freeboard issue is only, on my boat, taking a big roller over the back. You don't need to have water over the swim deck to get a great wake on either side.
The V237 is the same hull shape as only deeper. When Robert says the chop was lapping up that high we were over weighted on that side as Robert and I both sat in the back corner and on the side and we combine about 650 lbs. and the water was extremely rough with rollers.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-28-2008, 6:50 PM Reply   
Yes, I can attest to that, I was loading up the corner. And the chop that day was exceptional. I would normally not be out on a day/lake like that.

The sanger is a great boat, and every boat has its pros and cons. The freeboard is def lower on the Sanger than others, but may not be an issue to you. When I was in the delta with my friend on his 210, he did not have that much weight in it, and the water was not lapping over, but it was constantly rolling over the corner of his sundeck. That would be too much for me, but the 237 had a higher freeboard than the 210. My personal opinion is that I would not feel comfortable in the 210, fine in the 237. Again just my opinion, and remember, my opinion is biased in that I have young kids, from 17 to 3 yrs old. So the very high freeboard in my Tige is a plus for me.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-28-2008, 8:37 PM Reply   
robert that goofy wake rocks. i wish i could get that nice of a wave out of my avalanche, do you think its possible?
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-28-2008, 8:46 PM Reply   
Here's the goofy wake behind the '02 Avalanche that pulled Nationals.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-28-2008, 8:50 PM Reply   
The regular wake behind the '06 Avalanche that also pulled at Nationals.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-28-2008, 8:52 PM Reply   
The '02 Avalanche ballasted for the goofy side.

Big props to Jim for bringing his '02 Avy to Nationals
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-28-2008, 8:56 PM Reply   
The '06 Avy that pulled the regular side at Nationals.

Thanks Corey and Noelle!!
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       09-28-2008, 9:06 PM Reply   
Another shot of the boatsUpload
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-29-2008, 12:31 AM Reply   
Those avi wakes look pretty clean on both sides. That last picture is funny looking, kinda cool.

You know, I am sure glad I got the boat I did. When I bought my boat in 4/2007 I had seen people wakesurf, and I KNEW I wanted to be able to do it. I just thought any inboard would work. We bought the Tige for many reasons, we had narrowed it to the Bu 247, MC X-45 and the Tige 24Ve. Our boat has been fantastic, and now that we do almost NOTHING but surf, I sure am glad my boat is one of the boats that makes a great wake on both sides, fairly easily. I am sure there may be better out there, but I love ours, and it suits our needs perfectly. Sure would have been a bummer to find out my boat didn't make a great wake, or only did one side. I have 300 hrs on my boat now, about 250 of it surfing.

I am putting a heater in it tomorrow, will have my ballast completely automated this winter, and plan on customizing my swimstep to aid in surfing. I love the challenge of tinkering to maybe get just a bit better wake. I am a programmer/software engineer, it brings out that side of me.



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