"banned" list

Does anyone know a list of states/jurisdictions where wakesurfing is banned, in trouble, etc.?

Is there a grass roots organization somewhere to help keep it legal?

I recently heard about a very concerning case in VA which effectively bans wakesurfing. Someone posted that wakesrufing is in trouble in PA also. Witness the recent thread from AZ...

Hey antifan,
The American Wake Surf Asssociation (AWSA) is very involved with the State Legislatures. We have a Legislative Liason Larry Mann at Fresh Air Exhaust He can be contacted at mail@boatpipes.com We try to keep on top of any attempt to ban the sport. If you have any information about any States please forward the information to Larry and post it online here as well.

I emailed Mr Mann, I am not a party to the ticket or ensuing case and don't want to post potentially erroneous third hand info.
There is a post about it in the http://www.endofropegang.com/ forums under "lake gaston"

Pertinent text from that site: There isn't any meat in this post, and it's secondhand - nor is there an update.

"Yes for now. The Wardens are playing off of a technicality and they are looking to ticket. My neighbors on Pea HIll have a court date JUly 8th and Centurion has helped put together a little something for the judge to reveiw. ie Wakesurfing competitions on public lakes throughout the country with Wardens present, boats made specific for this, World Wake Surfing Championships now four or five years old, the Teak Surfing warnings that still acknowledge but not disallow in VA.

There are some pretty dumb things on the books but the way they are doing this takes the cake. Right now we/me and my family are still surfing on Pea Hill. I will simply fall if I see one of them and we will put the rope in the water and if they still want to ticket me then it will be up for debate in court or I could always go over to the NC side and ride whcih is just to the end of our cove.

I think this will be re written in the next couple of weeks."

The reference in PA is about using a 21 foot rope and that would be applicable to NPS regulated waters also.

I don't think this is the first problem I've heard of from the wardens at Gaston. It is good to hear that Centurion has stepped up to help with the case. This will definitely be interesting.

The case is done and did not go entirely well.
From what I was told the verdict was "guilty" with suspended charges, which allows them to continue to ticket and sets a precedent for wakesurfing to be found illegal based current VA law.

Disclaimer-I was not there and the above is third hand info.

Ever hear anything back from larry? Now I'm really interested. Maybe we'll see some updates on eorg

I sent an email to Centurion. I'll post up the reply if I get one. I know its not directly from the defendant, but I figure if they did provide some help they may know a little more about the outcome

here is the virginia code as it pertains to boating... I can't find anything in it that prohibits wakesurfing...

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC29010000007000000000000

Hey guys/gals, I just received a phone call from Clark Bird with Fineline. He was not very familiar with the case, he did seem to know that they were found guilty (or maybe he took that from the email I sent) but did mention he was pretty sure they helped with a presentation for the case. Rick Lee, the owner of Fineline, is away on a meeting and then has some other items to attend to. Chris has told me he will find out what he can about the case and the outcome from Rick. I hope to hear back by the end of the week from him.

Whats puzzling to me is that some people are saying the ticket has stuck, the judge wasn't hearing any arguments and a guilty verdict was handed down, while others are saying the charges were dropped and the judge laughed at the case.

Hopefully we will know the true story by weeks end or so.

Yup, on end, a neighbor of theirs said it got laughed at and thrown out...basically says to surf on.

I am also good friends with the dealer who sold them their centurion and his story was very different.

I give up. Plenty of people still surfing...I am going for it.

I'm with you, wakevb... There are two distinct versions of the story that don't match up. Your two sources are the same as mine. I don't recall a thread on centurioncrew about it.
I'm going to surf on but we tend to attract less attention being a "family" outfit with kids. No tower speakers, beers, powerturns, etc.

Sounds like there was another ticket on Gaston for wakesurfing according to a post on endofropegang.com. I suggested the recipient post their story here so it is first hand info.

I have the information on the latest ticket for Gaston. I will not release anything yet, as its still possibly going to court. I will ask Wayne, the boat operator ticketed, if he minds my sharing his story.

My sister and crew were out on Saturday in Pennsylvania and were pulled over by the fish & boat commission for wakesurfing. PA requires a 20' rope. They had a 20' rope but surfer was not 20' behind the boat. They did not get a ticket, but were told they had to stop. Anyone else in PA having problems?

That's interesting. The regulations clearly state a 20 foot long rope, but the officer is interpreting that to mean the rider must be 20 feet behind the boat.

"It is unlawful to operate a motorboat at any speed when towing a person on water skis or other devices using a tow rope of 20 feet or less"

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/boatcrs/03boathandbook/activities3.htm

I couldn't find anything within the reg's that stipulated the rider must be 20 feet back. Do you know if the officer quoted any code section that specifically said the rider can't be within 20 feet of the boat?

Officer did not not quote reg's and I have read the reg's several times. Nothing in reg's talks about distance from boat. Rider was pulling up on rope to get into position, so was closer than 20'. But you can't surf 20' behind the boat. Problem is if you get too fiesty with officer they will find some issue to cite.

(Message edited by slf144 on July 28, 2008)

Sherri, I will send you an email when I get home form the shop. Sorry to hear about this.


Brian

We got out on the Delaware River between NJ and Pa. I am not about to challange the regs. We just do it when nobody is around. The NJ police run about once every few hours so you can get runs in and the PA guys I rarely see out.

We got pulled over on Lake Chesdin, Virginia today, our normal spot. Warden told us it was not illegal to wakesurf, but illegal to wakesurf without the rope. The interpretation is the rider becomes a swimmer when you toss the rope, and then the driver is operating a vehicle within 50 feet of a swimmer which is what the code says. I think its a very loose interpretation of the law and complete horse****. Its the same crap thats going down on Gaston.

Riding with the rope just blows, thats all there is to it.

Did you let TXSurf know about it?

It's obviously being regulated as a nuisance as holding the rope vs tossing it does nothing to protect you from CO or the prop--the main "safety" reasons given in other jurisdictions.

Really a very petty loophole they are using.. calling a surfer a swimmer is just plain silly (they think they're pretty clever, to the point of gloating over it in fishing circles). The commonwealth of VA very much has a "police state" mentality, you can forget civil disobedience, it won't do any good around here. Without changing the law to specifically allow wakesurfing it's pretty much over in VA.
They won this one.
I'm thinking of fashioning a very light "rope" out of some old wakeboard tow line that I can hold on to... maybe use some poly twine in order to stay "legal" but I can't afford the ticket if it doesn't fly.

I did not, because I didn't get a ticket. Not sure there is much to be done with a warning from a fat porn-stached warden.

I was pulled over last Saturday on Lake of the Ozarks for wakesurfing looking "dangerous" Although the office cited some BS law that states if he thinks something looks dangerous he can pull us over? There is no law and he admitted that banning wakesurfing in Missouri. The guy was a total doughnut like most water patrol officers. We passed his inspection...I think he was pissed becuase he couldn't hand out a BWI because nobody was drunk! I would like to contact the Missouri State Water Patrol but don't want to waken a dead horse. I have passed many other officers while surfing and this is the first one that pulled me over.

(Message edited by akdoc on August 04, 2008)

Why does the law care so much about me hurting myself while having fun?Don't they have more important things to worry about?I feel the same about the guy being mad that I passed inspection and had no beers on board.I didn't get a ticket but when I told him we were going wakesurfing he told me I would be cited if seen.

There seems to be an easy way to defeat the logic used in Virgina. Everyone--even the Wildlife officers would agree that attaching a rope to a rider behind a boat would be extremely dangerous. (i.e. imagine a line tied around your waist and tied to the boat.) When you fell, you would be dragged behind the boat until the boat managed to stop--not safe at all!!

To safely fall--a person must let go of the rope. Competition water skiers compete with rope lengths less than 50'. i.e. at 38 off--the skier is on a 37' rope.

For years, slalom skiers have been falling and been within 50' of the vessel--but there has never been a ticket given out for "swimmer within 50' of the boat ticket".

The argument needs to be made that the instant a wakesurfer lets go of the rope--they are in the process of falling... Might take twenty or thirty minutes for a good rider to fall--but they are falling....

(Message edited by Whit on August 04, 2008)

Its a BS interpretation of the 50 foot law. The rider is still a rider regardless of whether they have a rope in their hand or not. When they fall and they are truly a 'swimmer' then I pull back on the the throttle like everyone and their mother does.

What can you do against people in positions of authority twisting the law? I could argue logic all day long but its not going to get anywhere with the minds behind the badges.

The only thing to do now is to get a clarification in the law. How you go about that, I have no idea.

My lake is way down anyway, I will just move to more remote spots to do our wakesurfing. If I get a ticket, then I get one. I'll be in court fully prepared when its my time.

Hey guys, I apologize to all of you that I have said i would contact last week. I had some unexpected things at work pop up and I've been busier than busy. I've tried accessing from my phone, but for some reason have had trouble doing so. I have a new phone on the way, so hopefully I'll be able to respond back a little quicker to you guys.

Sheri and Blair, I will try and drop you an email, but if you don't hear something by tomorrow and can spare the time, please email me at the addy in my profile. I am still at work right now, its been a crazy last two weeks.

I am keeping track as best I can to whats going on and it definitely seems that there is more than one for a swimmer to be a swimmer. Gaston seems to still be the biggest problem. I'm trying to be as diplomatic as possible when speaking to the BLA's in these states, as I don't want to come off with the I'm right, you're wrong mentality. I know we can all look at things in different ways, laws included.

If anyone has been stopped, warned or cited for surfing, please contact me at the email in my profile for now. That will be the best way to get ahold of me for the time being until things calm down with work and I can constantly be checking up on things here and other boards. Thanks for hanging in there guys and gals and know that I'm still working to make sure that our sport can be enjoyed in every state without harassment from various law agencies.

(Message edited by bac on August 05, 2008)

Well, if this proposed law goes through, it looks like it will kill two birds with one stone, wakesurfing and serious wakeboarding on the Upper Willamette river.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/610002.html?1217989534

I just posted this to this board.

Check out this newscast. This is a area just south of me. What are they thinking!!! Have any of you heard of carbon monoxide problems or even injury surfin'? They can't think of any else to stop....how about the drunks on the water that almost hit my boat!

http://www.klewtv.com/news/26012319.html

Anyone have any updates on the Virginia Warden militia vs Wakesurfing?

Bumping this again, anyone have any news?

Blair, we surfed all weekend at Gaston...some on the VA side of Pea Hill Creek. No Wardens to be seen. I think this is going to quiet down for a while honestly.