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Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-13-2008, 6:03 AM Reply   
Just saw this on a skim forum and it made my skin crawl. I really dislike it when companies can't come up with products or ideas on their own and have to steal others. Not only does Triple XXX use competitors designs but they can't even come up with their own art. Super weak

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superweak
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-13-2008, 7:55 AM Reply   
Ya I hear ya if you search ebay for them you will find a store full of 'em, knockoffs of many brands for less. For the record they do have many of their own designs too and they have been a skim company for a long time. It says right on the post what board it is supossed to be like...
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-13-2008, 6:25 PM Reply   
They have a board that is also the exact same dimensions as the Phase 5 Prop


LAME
Old    Johnny Stieg (jstieg)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-15-2008, 10:36 PM Reply   
haha not to bash on victoria at all but if they had to snake someones boards they shoulda at least picked some better art to swoop.
Old    Kory Klosterman (koryk)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-17-2008, 6:45 AM Reply   
Man... I'm a bit two-sided on this, especially in regards to skim boards. I'm not a skim rider, but skims seems to be a relatively simple design setup compared to surf-style boards. That said, One company directly adopting another's board design is a major issue in this industry. However, Triple XXX boards are priced far lower than most of the competition and seem to have a pretty solid build. This should allow newer riders to get more vested in the sport and bring down prices the competing boards...

All that said, this "adoption" is pretty brazenly obvious... and Triple XXX's board is telling of what Skim Boards would have been arted out like in the 80's.
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-17-2008, 8:45 AM Reply   
The main problem I have with knockoffs is it stifles innovation. These companies aren't actually designing anything and it becomes a real problem when they become too successful.

Besides not bringing anything new to table these companies force other companies to lower prices on products with already low profit margins. While it may sound great, it's been proven to have a negative effect on almost any industry. When profits get tightened then fewer contests get considered for sponsorships, rider contracts get tightened, and even R&D budgets are affected. Definitely not the way to induce growth in a new sport.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-17-2008, 9:00 AM Reply   
I'm more circumspect about the concept of knock-offs, but not about counterfits. My insurance company really pushes me to buy generic or knock-off drugs and when I compare the prices, I'm in favor of it. :-)

What really bugs me about the examples above is that they appear to be deceptive. Triple X has copied the Vic right down to the placement of the logo. When I buy generic drugs or store label canned vegetables I know I'm not buying the original. Here, if you weren't overly familar with the two brands, it would be hard to tell them apart. I would consider the two examples pictured above as counterfit, the first one in particular.

Knock-offs...I'm mostly ambivalent about, I can see good and bad on both sides. Counterfits though...that's 100% wrong, IMO.
Old    Kory Klosterman (koryk)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-17-2008, 11:57 AM Reply   
Agreed.

...and great illustration / comparison.

KK.
Old    T. J. (loudnproud)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-17-2008, 12:55 PM Reply   
Yes that was a mistake on our part. We were offered standard graphics by the manufacturing company and chose a couple not realizing they were the same as Victoria. We are now doing all custom artwork so this doesn't happen again. Just for the record we are not knocking off anyones boards. Take a look at all skim style wake surfers. They are almost all identical to each other in measurements. If you take a look at our boards you'll see our construction method is different than most. I realize we have been compared to some others before but that was just to make a comparison so the consumer would have an idea of what they were buying. The new Liquid Force board is exactly the same construction as ours were for 2008 so I guess someone is noticing these things ride great.
Old    Kory Klosterman (koryk)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-17-2008, 1:32 PM Reply   
Appreciate the explanation, Tim.
The above pictures were discouraging, as I personally know people who ride and love Triple XXX boards.
Looking forward to future boards.
Old    Johnny Stieg (jstieg)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-17-2008, 9:53 PM Reply   
while were on the subject...

The Competitor
The Competitor was originally designed for Shredstixx as an ultra-high-performance aerial board. Chase Hansen attained 2nd in the 2007 Worlds riding this exact model, hand designed and shaped in the USA by Vernor Surfboard for Shredstixx. It was not one of Shredstixx boards that are now made in China. All Vernor wake surfing boards are hand shaped in the USA
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speaks for its self...
Old    Kenny (trash4life)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-18-2008, 12:16 PM Reply   
yeah, and I hear its a few hundred dollars less than the shredstixx. If he designed and shaped it and continues to make them for less than the competition then I know where I'll buy mine! I'm all for healthy competition.
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-18-2008, 3:46 PM Reply   
Just because the length of board and the width of board are the same doesn't mean the whole board is the same...rocker and bottom shape can be different. They do have their own models too, and they are sold at a few notable wakesurf shops.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-18-2008, 5:06 PM Reply   
Went to Vernor's website, isn't that James (test rider) airing them out?

(Message edited by hate&pain on September 18, 2008)
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-18-2008, 8:11 PM Reply   
Yeah, that's James from...shoot March of this year? Thanks for bringing that up Hate - I need to call Dave, I still have one of his quad's here, he probably thinks I stole it! :-)
Old    Derek (ds3)      Join Date: Jun 2008       09-18-2008, 8:52 PM Reply   
I'm not sure why, but it seems like the SS team riders have a real ax to grind with Vernor. Or they have been programed to hate that brand. The story I got is just like the text in the above post from the Vernor website.

Whatever happened between Vernor and SS doesn't matter to me and I believe should be kept between the two. I understand that Jerry is a great guy and his brand is growing and bringing new people to the sport- it's all good. If Vernor did shape the original SS Chase model board, then he did. What's the problem?

Can't we all just get along?
Old    Johnny Stieg (jstieg)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-21-2008, 11:22 PM Reply   
no no i never said any thing bad. it was a post on knock offs. so i put a board up that is the exact board jerry designed for chase. the board shreds for sure. but the credit goes to jerry. i think everyone should just shape their own stuff. take ideas but not the exact thing. thats only going to take away from the sport. didnt mean to make you guys mad or any thing. i appologize, darek and mikey
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-22-2008, 6:02 AM Reply   
"i think everyone should just shape their own stuff. take ideas but not the exact thing. thats only going to take away from the sport."

ditto
Old    Derek (ds3)      Join Date: Jun 2008       09-22-2008, 3:17 PM Reply   
JS- It's all good dude. I don't get mad, My SS Thresher is my first "Real" surfboard and I love the SS brand. I just don't want to get in the middle of anything....
Old    Mike (bladeaustin)      Join Date: Feb 2008       09-23-2008, 12:52 PM Reply   
Surfdad, after watching the video from vernor it left me wanting more! you should make a video of your next build.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-23-2008, 1:01 PM Reply   
The vid where David is doing the suspension system installation? That was pretty cool. Petr likes vids also. I don't know...I'm feeling pretty blessed that Judy doesn't relegate me to the back pasture as it is...I can imagine her reaction if I asked: Sweetie, can you come here and film me, over the course of several weeks, while I make that mess that drives you crazy, please? :-)
Old    Loren Graham (lsg)      Join Date: May 2008       09-23-2008, 5:37 PM Reply   
Hey surfdad, I will film you. Problem solved.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-23-2008, 7:44 PM Reply   
Cool! Wait...what's the catch?! :-) Honestly, Loren you realize that I'm just a garage hack with some composites experience in the family and also that I live out here in Northen California, close to Jerry and Chase, right?
Old    Loren Graham (lsg)      Join Date: May 2008       09-23-2008, 8:57 PM Reply   
Yep
Old    Loren Graham (lsg)      Join Date: May 2008       09-23-2008, 9:01 PM Reply   
No catch, i just think there is a story that can be told, through a video.
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-24-2008, 3:43 AM Reply   
YEP YEP YEP LETS MAKE REGULAR
SURFDAD TV CHANNEL
AND POST IT ON VIMEO, VUZE ETC. DEFINITELY NOT ON YOUTUBE BECAUSE OF QUALITY
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-24-2008, 3:52 AM Reply   
I think that DVD with title "How to make your own wakesurfbord with Surfdad" or "Surfdad Wakesurf shaping 101" will be big hit and will help all shaping DIY hungry folks here

(Message edited by hawaj on September 24, 2008)
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-24-2008, 4:01 AM Reply   
I can help with some graphic design and some video stuff etc
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-24-2008, 5:10 AM Reply   
Petr you are too funny. There can't be any profit motive in this - as long as we distribute it for free, I'm game. :-) Can we invite others too? Petr you shape, and you have video skills, could you, Ed, Lakewakes Mark, Matt S and Matt E, etc all have segments?
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-24-2008, 7:56 AM Reply   
Profit? bah, we all are here because of fun. Yes Jeff its only internet and its free (almost) so anybody can do or contribute anything they wish - that is truly awesome thing. As far as my segment Im kind of shy he he ... and dont forget that I just did only single board... But anyway I can think of something like How I did it my way
yep I see that It will end with kicking down my camera from the sticks when I get nervous during glassing hehe

(Message edited by hawaj on September 24, 2008)
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-24-2008, 8:01 AM Reply   
Sort of a Ninja attack ending. I'd think finding supplies and resources in Europe would be a huge help for many, Petr and you have that expertise.
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-24-2008, 8:13 AM Reply   
Its not knockoff but I just returned from my France/Spain "surfing" trip and I bought in Spain very cheap brand new surfboard of regular PU/poly construction. Name is Black on White and all sizes were for same price 250,- Euros including fins! Regular boards cost 450,- E and more. This one is 7/2 to 20 minimalibu and manufacturing quality is not bad. First I thought its some China stuff or its some series with defects but it was sold in regular Pukas surfshops and they told me that its made in Spain. Just cant remember name of town. Shape is simple but I catch very first wave so its works. Funny what can happen at usually very expensive Europian surfboard market.

(Message edited by hawaj on September 24, 2008)

(Message edited by hawaj on September 24, 2008)

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