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Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-04-2008, 10:08 AM Reply

That's from yesterday. The last one scared the hell out of me, and since I already have an MCL sprain, that didn't seem like it was going to go over well...

Anyways, what are some suggestions from you guys? Extend off the wake more? Look back more? Don't be a wimp and hold onto the handle more?
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-04-2008, 10:18 AM Reply   
your coming in way too fast, then letting off your edge. the key to a back roll is a progressive edge. start slow, then as your getting really close to the wake you need to accelerate by getting more on edge. your hardest edge should be off the wake as your initiating the roll.
Old    Shawn Kelley (skelley19)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-04-2008, 10:20 AM Reply   
It looks like you are getting pretty close the way you are trying them but the major flaw that stood out to me was that you are flattening off as you ride up the wake. I got this trick really consistent by making sure I edge all the way through the wake and not starting the rotation until I have left the wake.

It looks like you are starting your cut pretty wide which in my opinion you don't really need for this trick. Try setting up about 10 feet or so away from the wake and start getting on edge right away. It might help if you try doing some big wake jumps from about 10 feet away to get warmed up. Then just keep the handle into your hips the whole time and ride away clean.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-04-2008, 10:26 AM Reply   
The only thing is that it seems like every time I've tried it slower, I can never get the line loaded enough and wind up underrotating it... Probably just a technique problem again. I'll work on it tomorrow when I'm out.
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       09-04-2008, 10:26 AM Reply   
it looks like your are hanging onto the handle with two hands too long. Although your hitting the water...its like your still rotating . I would say try to gat a little more pop but then stop your rotation for the landing by letting go of your rear hand and push your front hand forward.
Looked at it again...and compared it to learnwakes video....your def. overrotating.

(Message edited by absoluteboarder on September 04, 2008)
Old    Scooter (czap)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-04-2008, 10:47 AM Reply   
Your doin it pretty mexican man. When you pop look up and to the left and keep your chest open to the boat as you rotate. also keep you handle on your lead hip and both hands ON, only take your hand off if you feel off balance. Your approach and pop look good to me. And make sure and spot your landing. You evey landed one before? your damn close!

See if that work out for ya
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-04-2008, 11:19 AM Reply   
Nope. I keep either rotating them, casing the wake and losing it, or underrotating them. Although lately I've been banana peeling out of quite a few...
Old    Jeffrey Byron (99xstar)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-04-2008, 11:41 AM Reply   
Completely agree with WakeViolator and Shawn. I've been taught to think of it as a 1,2,3,4,5 cut. 1 being the easiest and 5 being all the way on the gas (you should be on 5 all the way up the wake). you're doing sort of a 5 to 1 in the video.

Cut out, point your board straight for a second (this will slowly pull you toward the wake), then go 1 to 5 with your cut.

You are very close and know what the rotation feels like. Keeping your edge is the only thing you have left. This will also fix the mexican looking rotation you have going b/c your body position will be ready to rotate the way Scooter describes naturally.

Keep the handle tight too!
Old    Jeffrey Byron (99xstar)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-04-2008, 11:44 AM Reply   
Nick - early on, I learned the backroll, then got in the bad habit of coming off my edge forcing me to rotate it mexican. The mexi roll is a lot more difficult to maintain consistency.

Fix the cut to fix the roll.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-04-2008, 11:46 AM Reply   
I wouldn't suggest letting go with your back hand, a controlled roll involves a nice smooth edge and a up pop. Your edge at 10 seconds of the video is what you want riding up the wake, as you reach the top stand tall. If you notice it took you like 4 feet to generate that edge. Start slow, drift in and slowly build your edge all the way to the top.
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-04-2008, 12:05 PM Reply   
I landed two this weekend and I could feel it in the pop every time if it was a hit or miss. If the boat went too slow it was tough. If my cut was too slow it was tough. Had to be a faster cut that I held all the way through the wake.

Then when I popped I had my back leg weighted just a little bit and I tried to pop STRAIGHT up. The times I hit it right I just got this huge snap out of the wake and the trick was SO SIMPLE at that point. Easy to spot, rotate, land. So I think that pop and edge is really key!
Old    Fabs (fabs128)      Join Date: Feb 2007       09-04-2008, 12:07 PM Reply   
Check this out. It should help you understand the progressive edge and loading the line.

Good Luck!
Old    Ken (ghostrider_2)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-04-2008, 12:20 PM Reply   
what speed and rope length you riding at?

(Message edited by ghostrider 2 on September 04, 2008)
Old    Ken (ghostrider_2)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-04-2008, 12:31 PM Reply   
how do you like the watson without the centerfin?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-04-2008, 1:07 PM Reply   
varies, 70-75, 23-26. Usually somewhere in there. It depends mostly on the boat.

And it's freakin awesome.
Old    Taylor H (maliburider456)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-04-2008, 1:21 PM Reply   
you need to throw your hips off the wake and to the sky harder so you arent landing so far back on your heels
Old    Justin (salsajs3030)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-04-2008, 1:42 PM Reply   
Easy fix man -you're pulling way to hard. A shorter pull out with help you land got it! Also, make sure your edge is progressive, don't let up on your pull mid way through the wake.
Old    Kyle Neumann (kyle_neumann)      Join Date: Jun 2008       09-04-2008, 2:12 PM Reply   
Kenny- the watson finless is nice. relaeses pretty quick. but i never rode with the center fin on it so idk which is better.. but im assuming that is it best finless
Old    Tim B (nvboarder)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-04-2008, 4:14 PM Reply   
My only suggestion would be to stand tall on the approach, your nealed down or seated through out the invert and when you hit the water for the landing you have no where to go but into the water. If your standing tall through out the invert when you hit the water you can take the impact with your knees and not bottom out and ride away.
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-04-2008, 5:31 PM Reply   
I tried a set on my Watson with the centre fins from my Stance (1.1" I think, didn't come with any as I bought it second hand) took them straight off again when I got back in the boat. Try it, you'll probably like it.
Old    Ken (ghostrider_2)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-04-2008, 6:32 PM Reply   
I have .8's (took off my PS3)on my Watson
Guess I will have to try it finless, just not sure of how much of a difference .8 will be..
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-04-2008, 6:49 PM Reply   
noticed a few things that some ppl mentioned probably but just wanted to give another point of view...
It looks like you could probably clear that wake with less than a 10 ft cut... your cut is wayyyyyy too long. Seems it is 20-25 ft...
First, try less than a 15 foot cut making sure you load the line, this trick is all about the edge you take and the line tension you carry throughout it
Next try keeping your back a little straighter into the wake... don't crouch so much... looks like you are missing some of the pop and not standing tall...
For me, the roll is all about a nice progressive edge, standing tall at the wake (meaning the final edge + standing tall nearly pushes the board away from the boat and up the wake)
I prefer to keep both hands on the handle, you will never be able to ride out of a sketchy landing with lots of line tension and one hand... or it will rarely happen... my best rolls are with 2 hands...
If you feel you are overrotating you can let go with one hand and let the rope out. Try the load and release version of the roll... keep the handle lower, shorter cut, stand tall at the wake... like an explosive knees straight experience at the wake. Don't throw it... let the wake, cut and line tension do the work.
Good luck
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-05-2008, 7:33 PM Reply   
Will hopefully be out riding tomorrow or sometime soon after.

However, it would seem that I pulled the lower part of my quad on the inside of my knee, just above the knee, on that last fall. It's a little swollen, and I already had an MCL sprain. Not sure how it is going to affect my riding...
Old    Jonny (wakeboardlasvegas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-05-2008, 8:06 PM Reply   
you already know you have a knee injury.. why not atleast BRACE up to prevent anything else from happening? All great advice above too.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-05-2008, 11:27 PM Reply   
Doctor wouldn't prescribe a brace. Didn't think it warranted one. "We only prescribe braces for people who have had things like a torn ACL."

And this particular day I left the neoprene stabilizer sleeve that they gave me in my room. I had it sitting on my desk to carry out with the camera and I wound up grabbing the camera and not the stabilizer, so yeah.

Trust me Jonny, I tried for an actual brace. It's a recurring injury that has been rehabbed and keeps on coming back to haunt me. So now I get to do more rehab for it because it's causing my knee to do things like that last fall. Which in the long run is better, but I was looking for a brace to use for the rest of this season, and the doctor was just like "Meh, it's a low grade sprain, no brace needed." Those weren't his exact words but that was the gist of what he said.
Old    Jonny (wakeboardlasvegas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-06-2008, 12:35 AM Reply   
Pretty much cuz he KNEW he was gonna see you within 2 months and CHA _CHING!!!$$$$$
Old    chris cote (c_cote)      Join Date: Jun 2008       09-07-2008, 7:27 PM Reply   
i did the exact thing with my right knee yesterday. I am going to the doctor tomorrow. I finished the rotation on the back roll and landed on the crest of the second wake. I ride goofy and my right knee buckled in toward my left.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-07-2008, 7:48 PM Reply   
Did it swell up? I have some anti inflammatory pads from this MCL sprain a few weeks ago, and my knee is about back to normal.
Old    chris cote (c_cote)      Join Date: Jun 2008       09-07-2008, 8:54 PM Reply   
Yeah its pretty swollen. if i press on the right side of it it literally feels like it buckles in. hurts like a .....
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-07-2008, 10:16 PM Reply   
Ouch dude. That sucks. Mine was barely swollen just above it. I mean, it was definitely swollen and tender to the touch, but it wasn't like, bad. I guess my joke about my knee being held together by magic and happiness may be true...


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