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Old    steven hall (old_timer)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-25-2008, 7:30 PM Reply   
I'm far from being an expert (grabs, backrolls, tantrums, 180's). That being said I need some help with what advice I can give to my main riding partner on his toe side jumps. Every time he cuts in like a bat out of hell, gets little air, but clears both wakes, and his board slides out from under him with slack in the rope. It seems to me like he is leaning, waiting for the rope tension to keep him up which isn't working. Very frustrating for me the driver, having to stop and turn around just after getting the boat all planed out and dialed in, not to mention the gas wasted yanking him back up. He is a big guy (6'3" 230lbs.) and very stiff, not sure if that is part of the problem.
Old    Poke (bawllaoutacontrol)      Join Date: Sep 2007       08-25-2008, 7:46 PM Reply   
on his cut in, his back knee should be bent. handle should be on front hip and back should be straight. tell him to ride all the way up to the top of the wake and to make sure that his weight balances out on the way up the wake without loosing the edge.(basically his weight should be 50/50 on each leg when getting the pop). at the top of the wake he needs to straighten the back knee.
Old    Ronnie (dragginby)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-25-2008, 8:11 PM Reply   
Cut all the way out, put the handle to your lead hip and let the boat pull you back in. The line tension will get you the pop. You don't need to cut in like a bat out of hell to clear the wake.
Old    Dean Parsons (nwa)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-25-2008, 9:22 PM Reply   
I am far from an expert as well, however, what has worked for me is incorporating a couple of basic fundmental ideas as I approach the wake toe side.

1) Maintain line tension by leaning on the line and holding the handle close to my lead hip to the point where my back arm is straight and feels like an extension of the line and handle.
2) Edge all the way through the wake and push with my legs, keeping my upper body in the position described above.

What really helped me was focusing on keeping the line tension by leaning on the line more, not edging more if that makes any sense. Also if I edge all the way through the wake my release and pop feel much more stable.

This is what worked for me. I hope it helps
Old    Burke Webster (burke)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-25-2008, 10:36 PM Reply   
A big thing that helped me was to balance out my weight 50/50 front to back. At first, I really had to exaggerate this by seemingly leaning more on my front foot on the cut in that I though I should. Made a huge difference in how I came off the wake and stability in the air and on the landing.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-25-2008, 10:49 PM Reply   
in addition to leaning on toes and heels for each respective cut, the pressure of the weight is pushing towards the boat in each case. i find (personally) the easiest way to create an image of this is imagine playing tug-of-war with the boat. cuting heelside is the most natural way to pull on the rope, chest facing the boat/opponent(s) digging with your heels, pushing pressure toward the boat/opponent(s) in orde to propel yourself backwards in a sense.
NOW, "play tug of war" as if you are going to pull with the opposite method. weight on toes, but the pressure is going in such a way that would propel you forward, especially the back foot. this will help set a stronger, confident edge that can be held to the wake, through the air, and continued upon landing.
Old    Jamie (yooper)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-26-2008, 7:14 AM Reply   
All good advice.

If he is slipping out, it is because he isn't landing on his toeside edge. Upon landing, his board is facing the same direction as the boat. He lands on the down side of the other wake, on his heel edge, has nothing to brace against (rope tension) and he slips out, right?

Two things have helped me with this. First, he should be looking across the wake at the shore. If he is looking at the boat, or even the other wake, it will spin him.
Next, wait until the peak of the jump, then let go with your back hand.

I apologize in advance if I'm giving faulty coaching, but it has worked for me.
Old     (vlxray)      Join Date: Mar 2005       08-26-2008, 7:53 AM Reply   
I have found that the handle position as it relates to line tension is very important. As others have said, keep the handle close to your hip. I try to focus most of my pull on the lead hand and imagine that the forearm of the other hand is just kind of "attached" to the vest, in other words its held right up against my mid section. If you hold this position through the wake it will prevent you from being uncorked by the line tension. I read this on a post long ago and it really does help. Also all of the other stuff that has been said about edging, body position, etc. Two pros that are really good to watch on toeside are Harf and Soven. I try to mimic their approach as best that I can because they are flawless on toeside.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-26-2008, 8:50 AM Reply   
getting in the right postion to "stand tall" is key on toeside. I bend my back leg quite a bit, put a slight bend in the front leg and flex the crap out of it. When you get to the wake, gently push down or ollie at the lip.

It seems second nature on HS, but getting the right form and kick on TS is just different.
Old    Luke Power (powercorps)      Join Date: Nov 2006       08-26-2008, 11:04 AM Reply   
Tell him to keep his front shoulder down and not to let his chest open up to the boat in the air and during the landing. That should help the sliding out. Second, if he gets little air... he is not popping fully. Have him slow down on his cut a bit and really concentrate on the pop.
Old    steven hall (old_timer)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-26-2008, 2:20 PM Reply   
Thanks for all the advice. After thinking about all this info. it seems to me like he needs to slow down a bit and focus on the pop, and make sure he's staying on toe edge through the landing.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-26-2008, 4:51 PM Reply   
Not sure how fast you're pulling him and at what line length, but I'd suggest draining some weight and pulling him a bit slower with a longer line. This way he can forget about going wake to wake and focus on getting controlled pop. After a couple of sets of doing that, his form should be much better and he'll probably fall a lot less. At that point, try faster speed and shorter line again and see how he does.
Old    steven hall (old_timer)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-26-2008, 7:59 PM Reply   
I'm pulling him at 75 ft., about 24 mph, with about 1700 lbs. in a malibu sporster. The problem I have with him is that his healside jumps are O.K. so he doesn't want to change the setup. I think it's probably just the classic case of not learning proper edge control. I'll keep working on getting him to mellow out until he's a little more under control with his edges.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-26-2008, 11:08 PM Reply   
I'd tell him to forget heelside till he learns toeside. If he concentrates on it, it won't take too long and it's all worth it in the end; way more fun to be able to go both ways..

I'd slow him down to like 20 with the longest line before the wake starts to curl. Just my $0.02

School's in session!
Old    Nick Farrell (nickdakoolkat)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-26-2008, 11:16 PM Reply   
also when landing make sure he keeps his weight over his toeside edge, its a little scarey the first few times, and he may faceplant a few times but once he gets used to it he wont slide out anymore. It sounds like he's landing on his heel edge thats why hes sliding out.


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