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Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-02-2008, 4:51 PM Reply   
Hey guys, I have been trying these a bunch this summer but just cant seem to get it consistent. So far I have only landed one this summer, and it was on my second try, other than that I come really, really close on all my attempts. I think my main problem on these is just popping the handle due to line tension. I get great pop whenever I try it, I just cant seem to get it.

Here is basically what i do when i try this trick: I take about a 20 ft cut from the wake, drift and let the line tighten, take a seated cut back at the wake, then about 4 ft before I reach the wake I let my body come over the board, then I hit the wake and extend my legs while letting go with my back hand, then wait a second to feel the pop and flip straight back, and look for my landing. That's it.

As far as I can remember on the one I landed earlier in the summer, I think I might have had the handle close to my body before I left the wake, which I hear might help with tension.

Its not even funny how long Ive been trying these, so I would really appreciate it if you guys could help me to finally get this thing in the bag, that way I can actually move on to other tricks.

Thanks.
Old    UncleJessie (unclejessie)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-02-2008, 5:03 PM Reply   
Too much line tension is usually caused by over-rotation. When you land, your shoulders and torso are still moving away from the boat putting huge tension on the handle. I told a guy learnning them this summer to keep his chest "parallel" with the water surface as he is landing. he landing 3 in row after that... What I mean by this, as you spot the landing, keep your eyes and chest looking down at the wake. You will land sort of bent over... but this will emliminate the over-rotation and line tension. As you get more comfortable with the trick, you can move away from this technique.

The problem is how to handle the rotation speed when you land. Right now it is uncontrolled. To control it in the air, you can extend you legs and body to slow down the rotation, and stick it perfectly so you can land straight up and down.

My 2 cents.

UJ
Old    Will (razorjaw)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-02-2008, 11:24 PM Reply   
Can you get footage? We could probably work it out in no time! It sounds like you're extending too early, but its easy to say your doing one thing without seeing footage.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-03-2008, 10:53 AM Reply   
Thanks UJ I will try that out, now that i think about it, I have been over rotating some. Also, should I try holding the handle closer to my body at take off to help reduce pull in the air?

Will - Ive been trying to get footage the only problem is that my camera dies way too fast, I will borrow a camera when I go out this weekend and will get some footage. Thanks.

Anyone else have some advice?
Old    UncleJessie (unclejessie)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-03-2008, 12:21 PM Reply   
I would not think about your arm position too much.

UJ
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-03-2008, 7:45 PM Reply   
Alright, will do. I will hopefully be able to get some footage this weekend that way you guys can see what else i might be doing wrong. Im hoping I will be able to get this consistent in no time, its really been messin' with me for a long time.

In the mean time, is their something that you guys think of or do when you throw this trick that makes it easier to stomp? I know this should already be an easy trick, which is why Im mad that I still cant get it consistent.

Anyways, thanks for the advice.
Old    Kiley Hughes (mrboston187)      Join Date: Jul 2008       09-03-2008, 9:53 PM Reply   
just be relaxed, and keep your eyes open. dont huck the flip, it will do it for you, im sure you know this already though. Personally the single biggest thing for me to stoping these consistent was opening my eyes. I landed a couple of them luckily with my eyes closed, but once i started opening them, they came wayyyy easier and smoother.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-04-2008, 10:26 AM Reply   
kiley, I wouldnt say that I have a problem with keeping my eyes open, because I can always see the water as soon as I start to come around, and I can always spot the landing pretty much all the time. The problem is that even though I can see my landing, line tension or over rotating makes it hard to stick. Its like i see it happening but I just cant do anything about it.

Now as far as hucking the flip, this might be part of the problem, but for the most part I think I am letting the wake trip me. One thing is for sure, I never under rotate these...ever. Now sometimes I know I might take a harder cut then I might need when I throw this flip which im thinking could make it harder to control, but is a more mellow edge necessarily a more controlled rotation?
Old    Stew (aussie_stu)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-04-2008, 4:32 PM Reply   
my punt would be your not squaring up properly, if you hit the wake not square it kicks your tanny sorta round the back a touch and adds tension on the line, make sure when you hit the wake your looking back at where you just cut from, this'll square you up and pop you straight up and over
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-04-2008, 8:16 PM Reply   
Stew, I know that I probably do tend to throw it around the back a little, but whenever I used to actually emphasize squaring up at the wake it seemed like it always robbed me of my pop. Now that I approach it more like a regular wake jump, it seems like my timing and pop is way better. Should I wait til I get the pop and leave the wake before I actually turn my shoulder from the boat or what?
Old    Stew (aussie_stu)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-04-2008, 9:58 PM Reply   
check ths out, this vid helped quite a few riders out here........

http://www.vimeo.com/336210

I square up just before the pop, if you time it right you don't lose pop
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-05-2008, 6:28 PM Reply   
Stew, thanks for the vid. I'll give it a few runs with emphasis on squaring up more, and ill see how it goes. Im still trying to get a camera for when I go out tomorrow, so that way I can finally see what I look like when I throw this trick and hopefully it will help correct my problems.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-06-2008, 1:29 PM Reply   
Hey guys I did get some video today but I dont even know if its worth posting, probably the worst I have done this whole season. Anyways I did do some tannys with more emphasis on squaring up but they are by far the worst attempts Ive done in a LONG time, and I already know what went wrong on all of them. I think I was kinda being lazy out there but I will try to post the vid just so you guys can see how horrible these are.
Old    Dan Vargas (wakemandan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-07-2008, 1:08 AM Reply   
aww come on, im checking in on your. Lets see them.
Old    Robot (k9fxr)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-07-2008, 4:43 AM Reply   
What made all the difference to me in squaring up, was that I was hitting the wake too perpendicular. Yesterday I approached it aggressively, but jumping more to the boat and landed 3 of 5, first ones all year.
So instead of squaring up almost 90d, I only had to square up 45
Hope that helps
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-07-2008, 5:57 PM Reply   
Yea Dan, Im working on it. I just have to figure out how to get the footage off my camera onto my computer, ive just been busy workin' and all and havent had enough time to figure it out yet.

Robot, what do you mean when you say you jump more to the boat, the direction of your rotation is more toward the boat?
Old    Dan Vargas (wakemandan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-10-2008, 10:41 AM Reply   
plug in the camera, advanced users link. Drag that file to your desktop.
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-10-2008, 11:03 AM Reply   
http://www.vimeo.com/1607049

hey... i dont mean to highjack... but I think I might have the same problem? Ive only tried a couple of these.. .but any and all advice would help. Thanks...
Old    Dan Vargas (wakemandan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-10-2008, 4:33 PM Reply   
John,
Your obviously looking over your right shoulder to spot the landing. Looks A lot like the way not to do it that Steve posted.

Also the handle seems to be WAY away from your body, not only is your arm fully extended, but it's reaching to the sky. Maybe try to keep the handle closer to your hip?
Old    J-Mo (popkarma)      Join Date: May 2008       09-10-2008, 7:55 PM Reply   
also john you are trying to huck it in the trough. edge hard through the wake and as the front of your board starts to reach the top of the wake switch edges and go from there
Old    UncleJessie (unclejessie)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-10-2008, 9:01 PM Reply   
Pull the handle in on the way down... it will speed up the rotation and get you around.

UJ
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-14-2008, 11:20 PM Reply   
Alright guys, I finally got a video to post up of my tanny, not my best attempt but whatever. Basically what I can see that Im doing wrong on this one is first I dont think I come off edge soon enough, and I dont think Im off edge enough when I hit the wake. Secondly, I think I need to wait until I am in the air to start the rotation, as you will see I have a premature rotation at the top of the wake. I only did it one time in this vid because I was freakin exhausted.

Anyways heres the link, give me some input on what Im doing wrong.

http://vimeo.com/1735163

Thanks guys...
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       09-15-2008, 12:55 AM Reply   
nice board! i have the same one, love it.

heres what i see, your not squaring up to the wake right, by the time you ride into the trough of the wake drop the back hand and square up to the wake. throw your head directly back. Everyone was telling me this when i first learned tantrums and i always thought, how do you keep pop and momentum if you back off your edge? if you just switch to your hs edge at the bottom of the trough and edge all the way up the wake you feel the trip and the pop. your kind of just throwing your self away from the boat. if you edge right you will not even have to worry about flipping, it will do it for you. you just have to keep throwing your head back to keep the momentum of the trip off the wake. It should be a very smooth looking flip, don't huck it.

good luck man, you'll get it.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-15-2008, 11:05 AM Reply   
Taylor, thanks for the input. By the way, I love this board also. Anyways you say im not squaring up right, should my back be pointed at the wake before I get the pop, or does coming off edge and letting go with the back hand kind of do it for you? I have always been very confused about this part of the trick. One person I know who lands it all the time tells me to square up after I get the pop and another person I know who was actually pro back in the day tells me he doesnt even worry about squaring up, so its just confusing to me. Another thing is how do you see where the wake is if your back is turned to it? So basically do I have to actually turn the board when riding up the wake or what?

Thanks
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       09-15-2008, 11:42 AM Reply   
if you square up after you get the pop you don't get the trip, which is the fundamental part of this trick. Your cut to the wake is perfect except for the last 3 feet so your trying to huck it after you get the pop. Use the same approach and at the trough of the wake drop the back hand and at the last second ride up on your ts edge (i made a mistake and said hs edge last post) with the nose of the board almost pointed at the boat. doing this will trip you into the rotation but will keep your pop and you will land it.

if you have higher education or the book they show a side view of someone doing this trick and it finally made me realize what everyone was talking about with the whole squaring up issue.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-15-2008, 11:56 AM Reply   
Yea I have the book, but even after watching that a million times it still confuses me lol. Anyways I understand what you are saying now so when I go out this afternoon I will hopefully land it. I will have the camera again today so I will capture some footage and post it on here again. Thanks.
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       09-15-2008, 7:18 PM Reply   
heres an image set i dug up when i first started landing tantrums. You'll probably be kind of curled up at first from the thought of kicking your knees to your chest and then once you land them start to lay them out. notice how i stand really tall at the wake and the angle of my board.
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Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-15-2008, 8:37 PM Reply   
Thanks for posting the pics. For just learning that looks pretty good to me, lol. I got some more video today, and got three on tape. In my opinion they are better than the one I posted up before, especially the second one I did, but still not the best I have done. Anyways as soon as I get some time I will post up the vid.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-17-2008, 10:40 AM Reply   
Heres the vid from monday. They are in order from worst to best. On the last one I could really feel the trip at the wake. I am really close to sticking most of my attempts, so hopefully I will have it soon. Any advice would be appreciated.

http://vimeo.com/1750676
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       09-17-2008, 2:34 PM Reply   
nice digger on the first attempt.

the last attempt was really good, you can tell you had the trip because you flipped perfectly backwards. Your cut to the wake in this series of vids was a little out of control, as if you were doing a raley. Slow it down a bit. if you had a slower cut on the last attempt you would have landed it.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-17-2008, 11:44 PM Reply   
Yea to tell you the truth im not sure why I took such a progressive cut when doing those, it kind of just happened. What do you think made the difference for me getting the trip on that last one, was it because I got off my edge more compared to the other attempts, and maybe waited a split second longer to lead the rotation with my head?

I appreciate your advice man.
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       09-18-2008, 12:20 AM Reply   
exactly, the first two you started to lean your head back too early, when you should have been standing tall and setting up for the trip you shoulders were already hunched back to do the flip. Concentrate on getting the pop by standing tall first, then right when you pop combine the trip with your head going straight back.

the last attempt was a nice square up to the wake and you waited for it, thats why it worked out. slow the cut down a little, but still more than just a w2w cut, and i bet you'll stick it.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-18-2008, 12:27 PM Reply   
Sweet, now that I have actually experienced the actual trip from the wake I think things will come together a lot faster now. The one I landed earlier in the summer im sure was because I got the trip at the wake because it was huge and clean, I just didnt understand why. Unfortunately I dont have video of that one just a pic of me flipping in the air. Maybe ill post it just so you can see how much higher I got compared to these attempts.
Old    JPBoarder (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-18-2008, 12:58 PM Reply   
This was the second one I tried this season which I landed, wayyy bigger and better than my more recent attempts. Basically my attempts have just gotten worse and worse lol.
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(Message edited by jpboarder on September 18, 2008)

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