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Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-14-2008, 6:59 AM Reply   
Who is going? Any pros there?
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-14-2008, 9:54 AM Reply   
^^^^ blah hahahahahaha. That's the funniest thing I've heard today!!!!!
Old    Kyle Neumann (kyle_neumann)      Join Date: Jun 2008       08-14-2008, 9:57 AM Reply   
lol. noob
Old    Adam Atcher (azatcher)      Join Date: Apr 2008       08-14-2008, 10:49 AM Reply   
USA Wakeboard Nationals and NWL Nationals both are held together. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that both of these two leagues are primarily Amateur Riders. There will be some excellent riders there but I doubt if any "PROS" will be there..... you definately will not see any of the Big Names.
Old    HH99 (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-14-2008, 11:04 AM Reply   
USA Nats. is for choosing the team for worlds. The "Pros" who want to qualify for IWSF Worlds are supposed to be there, but somehow they got around that last year. it's actually just a futile attempt to keep another league going, and rival WWA. But we all know their Comps. are in the toilet. And the contest scene is slowly fading.
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-14-2008, 2:02 PM Reply   
I don't know what to think. Their comps are a joke- last year was a disaster. But they do have a pro division and a jr mens division and riders like Adam E, Lariche, Austin Hair, Lidberg and others. Soven and Dallas competed a couple of years ago. Plus the winner in pro and jr men and maybe boys gets an invite to Masters and it is part of the selection process for IWSF worlds. They are under IWSF which holds world cup and has big riders and the biggest payouts.
Old    katie (k_modi)      Join Date: Jun 2008       08-16-2008, 2:33 PM Reply   
Any Results?
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-16-2008, 5:20 PM Reply   
John Rodriguez won pro men last year. He was at the Masters due to winning the Nationals. Did he get an invite to IWSF Worlds or the World Cup events?? I mean, selection criteria was met. Was it not??
Scott??
Old    Trevor (hawk7)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-16-2008, 8:58 PM Reply   
Whoa this thread is brutal, what is the IWSF??
Old    HH99 (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-16-2008, 9:32 PM Reply   
Yes, selection criteria was met, and John Rodriguez did not get an invite. These Wakeboard leagues (WWA, USA) flip-flop around on so many issues, that it makes it hard to know who is Pro or AM, who qualifies for what, etc...Just one of the reasons that there has been a lot of talk lately about what is Wakeboarding really about. It's no wonder the sport has taken the dive it has the last few years.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-17-2008, 5:55 AM Reply   
IWSF - International Water Ski Federation
Old    David Hair (kneeboarddad)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-17-2008, 5:58 AM Reply   
Last years nationals was totally messed up. They changed the venue and the dates so any pros who were going to go did not. Selection criteria was not met. There is a lot moore than just winning nationals. Only one aspect. He did get an invite to Masters though and that is really huge that someone who would never have a chance to ride at that level gets an invite to Masters.

The selection to IWSF World Series and the IWSF World Championships which is held every other year is not very clear and totally subjective. They have tried to make US Nationals a mandatory event to qualify but the reality is the team for Worlds is chosen by USAWaterski board and the IWSF World Series by some international committee.

With that said- Austin is there this weekend to support the sport. He has won several national titles and was athlete of the year for them but has not been chosen to represent the US except once. He is there because there are 80 people, mostly kids, who are competing. He is there to let the kids meet and ride with a pro. To hang out, give some tips and help with judging. He doesn't get paid or reimbursed so it cost him a few hundred dollars out of his own pocket. He is there because a few years ago he was one of those kids and it has given him the most awesome life experiences one could ask for.

So yes, wakeboarding politics is prety messed up and, like life, not often fair. But if you look at the big picture all of us here who post on this site and get to be part of wakeboarding are some of the luckiest and blessed people in the world.
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-18-2008, 6:28 AM Reply   
David, We were there and we really appreciated having Austin there. Tell him thanks for giving his time. It was a lot of fun and there were some great riders to watch. Also, the advantage of riding different leagues is that you meet a lot of different friends and families. We used to only ride INT and you know everyone. This year riding WWA, NWL etc. is has allowed Delanie to meet and ride with many new friends!
Old    John Prizer (sorg67)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-18-2008, 7:51 AM Reply   
Are results posted anywhere?
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-18-2008, 8:29 AM Reply   
It was great to have Austin. I was very proud to award him 1st Place.

I just faxed results to scott atkison and should be on the usawaterski.org site shortly.

Jr Men
Gunnar Shuler
Andrew Shearer
Mitchell Connell

Jr Women
Corrie Dyer
Megan Blaschka
Erika Spragg

Girls
Megan Ethell

Master
Jason Neagle
Brian Kruer

Veterans
Mike Ryder

Jr Boys
Nicholas Brown
Jacob Kappler
Mitchell Kappler

Jr Girls
Taylor McCullough
Kailia Coffey
Marina Hansen

Boys
Freddie Wayne
Gus Shuler
Zach Brown

Woman
Erica Dumeyer
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-18-2008, 8:43 AM Reply   
NWL was the best yet. The riding was outstanding. Here are the results.

Boys Novice
Benjamin Brown

Girls Novice
Deanna Spragg

Jr Women Novice
Kaila Coffey
Marina Hansen

Men Novice
Douglas Hansen
Adem Atcher
Garrett Spragg

Women Novice
Erika Spragg
Allie Capler

Master Outlaw
Jason Neagle
Gary Morrison

Men Advanced
Gus Shueler
Cameron Steiner
Brian Kruer
Lee Travis
Ryan Steele

Expert
Freddie Wayne
Noah Flegel
Clint Nicholson

Beginner Wakeskate
Jacob Kappler
Douglas Hansen
Marina Hansen

Jr Men Intermediate
Cody Coffey
Zach Brown
Nick Brown

Jr Women Intermediate
Delanie Parker
Ally Coleman

Mens Intermediate
Alex Bergdoll
Cody Flesch

Women Intermediate
Leah Ledford
Chaylin Dyer
Ali Ledford

Veterans
Mike Ryder

Women Advanced
Taylor McCullough

Open Women
Megan Blaschka
Megan Ethell

OutLaw
Pierce Homsey
Clayton Underwood
Brad Molnar
Old    David Hair (kneeboarddad)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-18-2008, 9:23 AM Reply   
Austin said there was some really good riding and it was tough judging. Pretty nice turn out.
Old    HH99 (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-18-2008, 10:35 AM Reply   
John Rodriguez was invited to Masters because he won PanAm 2 years in a row, and WakeGames last year. He was told there would be a Mens 1 division at USA, that's why he was there. But no Mens 1, so was forced to ride Pro. No other Pro men showed up, or Pro women.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-18-2008, 1:13 PM Reply   
John Rodriguez won WakeGames??
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-18-2008, 1:22 PM Reply   
Jon R did not win the Wake Games pro division. I never even heard of him but assume he won USAWaterski nationals last year and got to go to Masters as the invitee from USAWaterski. USAWaterski gets to send the Boys, Jr Men and Pro winner from their nationals to Masters. No pros showed up last year so I think he is the guy who rode in the pro division and thus was invited. Pretty smart on his part to register as a pro.
Old    HH99 (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-18-2008, 1:41 PM Reply   
^^^^read Post^^^Never said he won Pro, Mens 1 last year. PanAm last 2 years. he signed up for Mens 1, and when he got there no Mens 1, just Open men. Same as this year, only one contestant, Austin Hair. And since he didn't win WakeGames, PanAm, or any other titles, he will probably get an invite to Masters as well. Do your homework!!!!
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-18-2008, 2:12 PM Reply   
Why would no one in Outlaw for NWL ride in the USA comp?
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-18-2008, 2:51 PM Reply   
Most of the Outlaw NWL riders were in Jr Men in USA.

WWA now controls Masters Wakeboard, as of Sunday of WWA Nationals they had not determined if USA riders would be considered for the Masters.
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-18-2008, 8:11 PM Reply   
Wow- sorry headhunter. No one is dissing John just clarifying. If he's your son or something you should be proud of how well he rides and got to ride with the pros. I have done my homework and actually read the qualifying criteria for Masters- It has absolutely nothing to do with Men's 1 winning anything.
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-18-2008, 8:19 PM Reply   
Here is the criteria taken from the website

Invitation criteria for the 49th Masters Wakeboard Tournament includes:

2007 Defending Masters Wakeboard Champion.
Top 10 finalists of the 2007 King of Wake Wakeboarding World Cup Series.
Top four riders from WWA World Series.
Top 4 Pro Men and Pro Women of the 2007 IWSF Wakeboard World Cup Series.
2007 WWA National Wakeboard Champion.
2007 WWA World Wakeboard Champion.
Top 8 Men, 4 Women on the Pro Tour Ranking Lists.
2007 USA Wakeboard National Champion.
Current IWSF Wakeboard World Champion.
2007 European Championships winner.
2008 Wake Games winner from Pro Women and Pro Men.
2008 Pan American Championships winner from Pro Women and Pro Men.
The Masters Committee reserves the right to choose 2 wild cards. (These riders will be chosen if the committee feels that a particular rider is worthy of competing in the event, but was not able to make it in on the above criteria. Riders will be chosen based on their value to the sport on a contest level and a marketing level, but only to further enhance the credibility of the event.)
Old    HH99 (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-18-2008, 8:19 PM Reply   
No worries Roger. Wow! So they have 2 different Sanctioning bodies for Masters? Sounds like USA is losing it's grip. I did see Dishman handling the judging at Masters this year.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-18-2008, 8:46 PM Reply   
USA lost its grip a long time ago
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-19-2008, 4:46 AM Reply   
Masters is both USAWaterski and WWA thankfully or there would be only one rider. USAWaterski, hmm, what can you say. I use to think I wanted them to merge but there is no way I want USAWaterski to own wakeboarding. Not as long as it is ruled by wateskiers and an international board that looks like the United Nations.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-19-2008, 5:47 AM Reply   
At least the US have the WWA. The UK situation is exactly the same with no alternative body supporting or speaking up for the wakeboarders. So now you have a powerful organization run by waterskiers with the wakeboarders hanging on their coattails begging for scraps.
Problem with the WWC is they seem to make it up as they go along. They also seem to have this vision of taking wakeboarding to the world so they stage the Worlds in far flung places that cost the competitors a fortune to get to and, to make matters worse,you end up with more riders than spectators?
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-19-2008, 10:43 AM Reply   
Well they do have some cool venues with large crowds and big payouts. They sjould open it up to the best riders though and not limit US riders to 2 or 3. As far as the management goes- they should let it be independent of the IWSF/USAWaterski and let the wakeboarders run it. I don't get it. I'd like to see a tour where there is skiing/jump/wakeboard. Mostly wakeboard but a little skiing. Take the top 20 male wakeboarders with 3 rounds, top 8 female and 2 rounds, and a few skiers and jumpers. I like going to the Masters and get a little variety.
Old    Forrest (wazzy)      Join Date: Nov 2001       08-19-2008, 11:23 AM Reply   
CONGRATS TO THE COFFEY'S!!!! Hope to see you guys at Worlds ::nudge-nudge::
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-19-2008, 12:11 PM Reply   
I could never understand why USA Wakeboard only had 3 events/year. They absolutely forgot about the local clubs and tried to build the sport from the top down. That approach has proven to fail.

My love for the sport lies within grassroots. It took a few years but USA now recognizes how important grassroots is and Iím very happy with renewed support from USA Wakeboard. I have made some significant changes and more are coming.
Especially for 2009.

I could care less about what happened 5 years ago with WWA and USA. What I care about is riding and growing the sport. Wakeboarding changed my life and is who I am, even though Im not good at it.

Even though Iíve been on the board for a little over a year, I was not involved in the 2006 or 2007 pick for masters. Rodger just gave the best explanation of how to qualify for Masters. Thanks Rodger.
I have always thought however that its a CC event and they have the say so and rightfully so if they are writing the check.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-19-2008, 1:52 PM Reply   
"Well they do have some cool venues with large crowds and big payouts"

That's the World Cup. Don't get me started on them.

At WWC World & European Championships there is no prize money. That is why they combine the World cup stop with the Worlds. You don't compete in the Worlds, you don't ride in the World Cup. You think the top Pro's are going to spend $1500 going to an event where there is no prize money??
Whether you like it or not the WWA is the best of the organizations. Everyone in the WWC seems to loathe the WWA anyway. Wonder why? Maybe because it works.
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-19-2008, 2:14 PM Reply   
From what I understand qualification for masters will change in 2009. WWA became responsible for selecting the wakeboarders to participate. They have not announced if they will continue to invite USA national champions. USA Waterski still controls invites to the waterski events at the Masters.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-19-2008, 2:57 PM Reply   
That's interesting George. Well at least they are realizing where their strengths and weaknesses are.
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-19-2008, 4:16 PM Reply   
Well that would suck for Austin who went out there under the impression there was an invite. But typical USAWaterski. Did you see how they tried to spin the Egypt stop? They had to ride at the swimming pool with obstacles thrown together by the riders.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-19-2008, 5:01 PM Reply   
If you win the European championships you get invited to the World Cup. Nicola won the European Championships in South Africa in February this year yet she was not invited.I was told last year that even if she won they would invite the girl who comes 2nd. Why?? Because I never had the $3500 to take Nicola to the Worlds in Doha.This, in spite of the fact that we attended the Worlds in Spain, Russia and the European Championships in Belgium.I never received one cent from any association toward our costs for any of those events.Last year I just did not have the money.That is inexcusable and they decided to take it as a personal insult and leave out one of the best women riders in the world. No Amber, Emily or Nicola at the World Cup stops. And they wonder why no one respects them.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-19-2008, 5:35 PM Reply   
Roger USAWaterski had nothing to do with that. Notice the first three letters in the org? More than likely it was another one of the orgs that you all keep talking about, USA is a segment of the IWSF, but USAWakeboard has their own board and executive council, one of which posts on here and trashes his own org. You really don't seem to know as much about USAWaterski, it's members, or the desire to have wakeboarding in the organization to be trashing it. So your "Typical USAWaterski" isn't even relevant because they are busy putting on their own events, and running another segment of the watersports industry. If you're going to trash the org, please know what you're talking about. Here's some links.

Please note the different boards and councils for the organizations (USA and IWSF)


http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/HQemail.html

{http://www.iwsftournament.com/directory/showgroup.php?group=1,http://www.iwsftournament.com/directory/showgroup.php?group=1}

Also please note the lack of information on the wakeboard section. USAWaterski had their Nationlas last week, ending into the weekend. They had results up as quick as 7 minutes after a division was completed. USAWakeboard didn't have anything up until after results were posted here. You can cry all you want about skiing getting more attention or exposure through this governing body, but they only put up what they are given, which is little to nothing. If you're going to whine about stuff, whine about what USAWakeboard does, as it is their responsibility to keep things going and up to date. Waterski lets them run their thing.

USAWATERSKI http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/divisions/3event/main.htm

USAWAKEBOARD
http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/divisions/wakeboard/main.htm

WWA runs wakeboarding, it is known. People are always on here wanting to "grow" the sport, blah blah blah, yet here is the opportunity to grow it, and no one steps up, you criticize how it is done, it's ability and blame it on the wrong people (org). I'm sure USAWakeboard would love you to volunteer and take on responsibilities, but if you just sit in the meetings and whine about skiers, it'll sit in the same place its been.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-19-2008, 5:47 PM Reply   
Chris why should you receive any $ from the organization? Shouldn't sponsors take care of that? Are they paying for the other riders? Isn't it part of getting Nicola exposure on the global scene? Because they didn't invite people who wants travel expenses makes them not get respect? You talk about the lack of $$ in the sport, specifically womens wakeboarding, but you expect travel expenses? If there's prize money for Pro, that should be all they need to offer. If there is not then it wouldn't really be pro, and why would you want to go?
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-19-2008, 6:29 PM Reply   
She competed for South Africa in both Russia and Spain. I paid for everything. She was part of the UK team in Brussels. We received about $500 from UK Wakeboard toward going to SA and it cost about $3000. UK Wakeboard won't have the kids going on their own because of all the trouble they have had in the past. So I have to pay double. And there is no prize money? I'm done with that.
They did not,not invite her to the WC because I wanted travel expenses.They did not invite her because she did not go the last Worlds (despite the fact we supported all the other events at huge expense in the past). I never said anything about wanting travel money from them.Reciprocity not money.
READ THE POST
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-19-2008, 6:38 PM Reply   
Also winning the Europeans gets you an invite to the World Cup. He did not invite her because he was still smarting over the fact she was not in Doha. I could not afford to go to Doha. I am not asking them for anything. Just to adhere to their own criteria. You cannot run an organization as if it is your own personal wakeboard club and make up the rules as you go along.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-19-2008, 7:59 PM Reply   
I read the post, thats why I asked so many questions.

"I never received one cent from any association toward our costs for any of those events."

"And there is no prize money?"

Why would you want to go then?
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-20-2008, 5:17 AM Reply   
A-dub. You really have no idea of what you are talking about, do you?
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-20-2008, 5:39 AM Reply   
"Why would you want to go then?"

Because of an allegiance to the country you represent, to compete on the world stage and also because a lot of those events are the gateway to earning invites to other events. World cup, Masters etc.Supposed to anyway.
To be honest the best riders in the world are here in the US so there is not a lot to be gained from going to these events. Except, again, to support your country. And again, that should be a two way street. Such as them fighting your corner for you when you need them to.Maybe if they did that I would be more willing to spend a whole lot of money for my daughter to represent them.I have told them this as well.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-20-2008, 6:30 AM Reply   
I understand Chris, and it should be that way.

Roger, how do I have no idea what I'm talking about? I was showing you how this is no fault of USAWaterski. The organization you accused. Do you know?

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