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Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       07-30-2008, 2:28 PM Reply   
So I've been reading all the recent threads of people getting injured and killed while out enjoying the waterways. I also noticed the overwhelming response from wakeworlders and the seemingly strong support of a boating license.

My question is this, what do you guys really think? Is that something you would willingly accept for improved safety, courtesy and control on the waterways?

The reason I ask is, I have access to a state assemblyman on a personal level and was thinking about taking this up with someone that could actually enact change. Any and all input is appreciated. I'll be drafting a letter to him soon.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-30-2008, 2:31 PM Reply   
The big question is, how difficult are you going to make it, and how are you going to prove ones' seaworthiness?
Old    Jonny (wakeboardlasvegas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-30-2008, 2:32 PM Reply   
Roll with it but make it free for introduction for the 1st year and then make it a $5 donation to like the state wildlife each year after that.
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-30-2008, 2:40 PM Reply   
Tennessee started requiring a license in 2006 for anyone born after 12/31/1999. They grandfathered everyone born before that date.

I can't really see any change in driving behaviors. We still have accidents, most involve older individuals and alcohol. It certainly gives TWRA agents more opportunity to write tickets for kids on PWC's.

I personally don't think accidents are result of lack of knowledge, they are due to individuals making poor choices and using bad judgement.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       07-30-2008, 2:42 PM Reply   
make it as hard as possible to get one. Whats the worst that can happen?..... people actually know what thier doing??? Its not like you cant learn or study the right way to do it then re take a test. They said last night in the news theres already a bill before the legislature here in Cali.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-30-2008, 2:55 PM Reply   
if anyone's taken the boaters exam that the state of CA has already approved then you'd know that it's no cake walk. i tried to take it without studying and i got less than a 50%. its hard. you have to know a litte about a LOT of things.

there's PWC specific sections, buoy and maker sections, right of way, requirements for different boat sizes...its very indepth.

i am all for this. i'm with nick. whats the worst that would come of it? there would probably be less and more knowledgable traffic on ALL of our waterways.

where do i sign up..

ohh yea and it costs $20 to take. i learned a lot from taking it and i consider myself a very knowledgable boater.

(Message edited by romes on July 30, 2008)
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-30-2008, 3:10 PM Reply   
I agree with Nick. Make it really hard, I have seen some people do the dumbest things on the water! If you had a fear of losing your license thus not being able to drive your boat legally kind of like a car people may think twice before they act.

Not to be a elitist by any means but if it helps clean the waterways of the Whiskey Tango I'm all for it.

On the Forth of July we were waiting right outside discovery park for some friends so we could cruise up the American to watch fireworks and some idiot pulled his 13-15 year old daughter on a tube right into the back of the X-45 we were idling . If a license would get rid of idiots like that I think we would all be better off.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       07-30-2008, 3:40 PM Reply   
So far I am of the same mind as Nick, jr and Steeze. I'm going to get working on this letter. Nick any idea what the bill being worked on is about? I would like to make this letter as informed as possible. I have seen far too much death out on the lakes, the one at Disco Bay a couple Saturdays ago affected me. Seeing that heli come in and then finding out it was for a kid just tears me up. This needs to get done!! And we can see about adding a chapter about power turning.
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-30-2008, 3:43 PM Reply   
I definitely agree that there should be some stipulation about getting a license. Or make a mandatory boater's safety course. I took the Wisconsin one and I've grown up on boats since i was a lil tyke. I think its a great idea. The more ya know the better.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-30-2008, 3:46 PM Reply   
yes to the power turning...Good work Stephan. if there's anything I could help out with let me know.
Old    Trevor (hawk7)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-30-2008, 3:49 PM Reply   
I think we should have to have a liscence, go to the sacramento river, you'll see why.
Old    walt            07-30-2008, 4:54 PM Reply   
Your never going to cure stupidity but you can help with the ignorance and that would go a long way. IMO having a boating safety course and license is a no brainier and it's hard to believe it hasn't happened yet.

Way to go Stephan !
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-30-2008, 5:01 PM Reply   
The boat mfg companies would probably push against a license that is hard to get.

The dumbest boaters usually are the best customers
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       07-30-2008, 5:04 PM Reply   
Tim, do you think it's a good idea to contact them? Perhaps bringing them into the fold would create a strong ally in this push? They will have a lot more to lose when local/state governments start closing down waterways because of liabilities caused by negligent accidents.
Old    Alpha_Beast (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-30-2008, 5:08 PM Reply   
I like this idea, it's a good thing.

I do think that we all should keep in mind that this will not stop some people, one's who drink & drive, do not get licenced, or have no common sense. There are plenty of people out there like this, educated or not, still idiots.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-30-2008, 5:17 PM Reply   
If you got the boat companies/dealers on your side, I think there would be a good chance to get this through. I think it is a great idea.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       07-30-2008, 5:42 PM Reply   
Stephan it was pwc specific. Something about needing a license and being 16 yrs old.
I don't think that the boat co's would be eager to help at this point they can't lose a single sale. I do however think we may have a solid partner with the org that pushes for people to wear life vests.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-30-2008, 5:48 PM Reply   
I think this would be a great thing. You could add it to your lice just like you add a Motorcycle class 4 to your lice. This and $5 a gallon gas would keep more than 1/2 the f" wits off the water.
Old    Waylon (wayz)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-30-2008, 6:23 PM Reply   
I think it's a good idea. You can never be too safe, because anything can happen on the water.
Old    AJ (ajcsurf)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-30-2008, 6:26 PM Reply   
Chapter (number): Small Lakes and Power Turning

This should be a MANDATORY chapter.
Old    Michael Mullard (mikeym)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-30-2008, 8:08 PM Reply   
Taking a test does not take the place of:

Common sense
Knowing your surroundings
Knowing the limitations of your boat

Boating safety courses for the people with no experience and refreshers for the rest of us- YES!
Old    Dennis (sixeye)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-30-2008, 8:24 PM Reply   
What Michael said!

Some of the licensing proposals that I have seen don't make sense.

Now let me say this. I am probably FOR the idea of licensing or passing a certified boating safety course.

However, it needs to be pertinent to the type of boating that the person will do. I've taken (and passed) a boating course. Half to two thirds of it pertained to big ship, ocean going vessels. One question I like to cite pertained to the Panama Canal.

Now come on...I regularly drive V-drive wakeboard boats on our local lakes. I have once in my lifetime driven a Nautique in the bay. A mostly enclosed bay I might add.

The questions on the test for certification in my case were mostly not related to the type of boat driving that I do.

I would suggest that licensing, as well as safety certifications, should be properly categorized.

I can get a drivers license in my state that will permit me to drive cars and typical trucks, but not motorcycles or fifth wheelers. A different license is required for those. IMHO, boating would require the same type of appropriate segmentation.

(Message edited by sixeye on July 30, 2008)
Old    Dave W (njskier)      Join Date: Jul 2005       07-31-2008, 12:48 AM Reply   
In NJ you must take the safety course and pass the 50 question test to operate any power vessel.
http://www.njsp.org/maritime/index.html

This has been a good thing IMO, I've noticed a reduced number of boats/PWCs on the water (although it could be gas prices having a large effect too).

Either way, people need to be educated on the correct way to operate a boat. We also have many state police boats on patrol, so I think that keeps more people in line as well.

(Message edited by njskier on July 31, 2008)

(Message edited by njskier on July 31, 2008)
Old    Jayson Reyes (jayson_49)      Join Date: May 2007       07-31-2008, 1:13 AM Reply   
Yes CA needs one. too may people do not pay attention to their surroundings and don't know what they're doing out there. I would say that most people that buy boats learn by experience, trial and error?? i know i did to some degree...
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       07-31-2008, 8:13 AM Reply   
Thanks guys, the advice is overwhelming. Keep it coming.

Dennis, very good point, you are absolutely right. I think for now the issue is to get this on someone's table that has some authority.

Just to give you guys a heads up, I'm doing a little more research trying to determine if this has been brought up in the past. I've heard rumors that Gray Davis rejected a similar law in 1999. Any info on that? A Google search came back with a response about a guy in Morgan Hill that was pushing an identical proposal in 2006. Anyone got info on that? I appreciate everyone's help, perhaps we can find why these others failed and make it happen.
Old    Gig Harbor Supra (lavinder)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-31-2008, 8:44 AM Reply   
In Washington, they are going to phase the requirements for taking the boater safety course, sort of like a license to boat.
We get a discount from our insurance for having this already. Once it's required, the discount will likely not be available but I will already have my rate locked. Some incentive to do it early. Check your insurance rates, you may get a discount. It's a 75 question test which is basic boating knowledge. I think it pertains more to open sea than lakes, but it's still very relevant.
From the legislation:
By January 1, 2008, boaters 20 years of age and younger will be required to obtain their Boater Education Card. Then by January 1, 2009, it will be boaters 25 years of age or younger will be required to obtain their Boater Education Card. The phased-in period for compliance will continue until 2016 for various age groups. Boaters born before January 1, 1955 will be exempt from having to obtain a Boater Education Card.
Old    kvoman (kvoman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-31-2008, 9:00 AM Reply   
Agreed with Dennis, testing should be pertinent to type of boating you'll do. But how will they verify it?

Also, as part of the test, they should include actual driving test, backing up the trailer, and understanding of courtesy rules while launching/loading/etc.

Imagine the DMV/Coast Guard's office now!!! The logistics are going to be a nightmare!!!

(Message edited by kvoman on July 31, 2008)
Old    J Jakober (jjakober)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-31-2008, 9:22 AM Reply   
Here is a link to the Washington Sate site:

http://www.boat-ed.com/wa/index.htm
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-31-2008, 6:42 PM Reply   
i 'd just like to point out: has anybody driven on the roads lately? accidents, death, destruction, mostly all licensed.
Old    Greg Bodor (gti2lo)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-01-2008, 8:41 AM Reply   
Full Licencing in effect for Ontario, Canada...

Written test and tickets applied to DL when on the water...

Also no PWC operators under 16 yrs old. Further any boat with more than 9.9 hp has to be registered and the operator requires an operator card.
Old    Peter Duncan (peterd)      Join Date: Mar 2005       08-01-2008, 9:58 AM Reply   
A few thoughts:

How about a requirement for people who get a ticket to take a class similar to driving tickets.

Also, many of the problems seem to be related to jet skis versus boaters. Their very nature encourages non-owners and boating rookies to take the wheel. A licensing program, even if it was like a fishing license (just pay $30 - no test) would discourage random people from taking the wheel.
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       08-01-2008, 10:27 AM Reply   
CA already requires a drivers license to drive and somehow it doesn't keep the loads of crappy drivers off the road.

The federal requirements to get a pilots license make it extremely difficult, averaging like 6 months to a year of training. With each credential along the way it gets progressively tougher, and yet I've actually been cut off by "highly trained" airline pilots taking the active runway while I'm 200 feet AGL getting ready to land... stoooopiiiiiddddd.

No, a license requirement will do nothing but add red tape and make a bunch of politicians feel better about themselves.

I think what you really need is a nation-wide IQ test where anyone failing to meet the basic requirements is stripped of all rights sent to some re-education camp until they're properly educated in basic common sense.
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       08-01-2008, 10:29 AM Reply   
p.s. Also consider what would happen to your local rental businesses if you made this law.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       08-01-2008, 11:01 AM Reply   
Tim there the problem we were out eating lunch last sun and saw two couples of young kids getting thier rentals. One almost parked it on the dock. The guy renting them laughed and said dont worry it happens all the time. He didnt give them any info but, what time to have them back. They didnt even know that a orange flag means theres a rider in the water.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-01-2008, 11:26 AM Reply   
people dont use boats as their everyday mode of transportation so the comparison to cars and drivers on our roadways is not usefull. most people see boating as a leisure activity that really has no laws in which they have to adhere to. by making it mandatory to be a licensed driver of a boat, pwc, whatever you force people to take responsibility of their actions.

you're not going to stop all accidents, that's not the point, the point is to keep uneducated people from hurting themselves and others out on the water. educating people has never been a bad thing. there's always going to be morons who know better but choose not to give a chit. thats not the target here. the target is to simply educate and by educating people on the right and wrong way to do things on the water i think our waterways will become inherantly safer.

but thats just what i think

(Message edited by romes on August 01, 2008)
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       08-01-2008, 3:39 PM Reply   
Responsible adults educate themselves and their kids, and certainly don't need big brother cramming more rules down their throats. Irresponsible people are going to do whatever the hell they want regardless of what we do. In fact, confusing them with more rules just makes the problem worse. Why do people always argue for more laws every time there's a problem? We have enough laws already. Everywhere I go now there are signs with 18 zillion "stricly enforced" regulations printed on them and kids riding around on their bikes with their "mandatory" helmets on. We can't even take our dogs to the beach anymore without some young punk in a lifegaurd jeep coming and explaining the rules and boundaries. What kind of world are kids growing up in today?

Like I said, there should be just one law, "use common sense", violation of which is punishable by stupidity-rehabilitation-training and loss of all rights until training is completed. For everyone else, no more taking away our freedoms to protect us from ourselves. You're already taking our money. Just leave us a little freedom. It's getting old already.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-01-2008, 3:42 PM Reply   
hahah
Old    Jeff Bridges (jbjboc)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-01-2008, 6:46 PM Reply   
A. Require licensing of all boaters thru written tests INCLUDING PWC operators
B. Be 18 and over to obtain license so driver can assume legal responsibility
C. Require insurance- just like on the road

Stupid people are the reason there are laws- protects us smart folks. Unfortunately rules are a part of life......

Good thread......
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-03-2008, 10:38 AM Reply   
So I got a little more information from the director of Cal Boating. Knowing where it actually stands I am going to move forward with contacting the assemblyman, see if we can get it rolling again. It looks like the budget issues aren't helping either. Here's the response I got:

Our boating safety course was developed back in the 1970ís to respond to the need for basic information to reach new boaters. We update it on an as needed basis when boating law changes or education philosophies require it.

In my tenure with the Dept, legislation on mandatory boating education for boat operators has been introduced three times. It has always been proposed as a lifetime certification, not a revocable license. The first time (1999) the bill was vetoed by Gray Davis. The second time (2007) it was tabled as a two-year bill. The third (2008) attempt never got out of committee due to the state budget perils.

In short, boaters know we need it and support it; however, legislators shy away because of attached fees or being seen as ďbig brotherĒ legislation. Even the National Transportation Safety Board has California on the radar to take this step. I think it will take a push by the public to make it happen so thanks for doing your part.

Thank you for your interest in safe boating and the desire to see accidents and injuries reduced.

Phaedra Bota
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-03-2008, 10:52 AM Reply   
I'm all for it!!!!

Trevor, I have seen it too many times on the Sacramento River. The legislature should have a field trip to Discovery Park on Saturday and see for themselves what a chaotic mess and stupid boaters can do. :-(
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-03-2008, 11:15 AM Reply   
we should get a petition going to get this on a ballot.

Anyone out there know how to get a pettition going?

This could be great for our industry. All those wakeboard school could get certified as "licencing centers" and make some extra cash.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-03-2008, 12:40 PM Reply   
everyone has had a first time out boating and made mistakes and seen mistakes made and hopefully learned not to do somethings and to do other things(getting experience). some learn faster some learn slower some never learn but there is always someone at the ramp who is there for the first time still way down the curve in the learning mode. No test, no demonstration of skills can ever come close to actual conditions encountered due to currents, tides, wakes, debris, ramps, crowds, pwc's...they are all different at different times of the day...there are so many variables that a license simply restricts business...you guys really want a common sense license, I'm with Monkey if you cannot pass a common sense test...back to common sense class. does a bass fisherman need to know the same things a wakeboarder does? does a wakeboarder need to know what a cabin cruiser knows? where do you draw the line? how much should someone know?
A license is not the answer. and yes I mentioned the accidents on our roadways being committed by LICENSED drivers who drive ALL THE TIME...and still get in accidents...

Also of the deaths on the delta this year how many had anything to do with someone who was just dumb? for instance six people died when 10 peeps got on a 14 ft boat that promptly sank at midnight no life jackets on anyone, didn't know how to swim, and all drunk...would a license stop that? or a lady driving her jetski too fast and running into another boat killing her(no fault of other driver) would a license stop that? or the guy who hit the bridge abutement with his jetski killing him...again would a license have saved him? I think outlawing jetskis except on certain waterways would be a better solution...they are he "problem" they do not think they are boats, so they do not drive them like boats, lets just make them get licensed.
Old    Kevin (pri3st)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-03-2008, 12:49 PM Reply   
Any idiot can get a drivers license = Any idiot will be able to get a boat license.

Stupid people do stupid things, a license won't change that.
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-03-2008, 1:11 PM Reply   
a licencing requirement COULD have prevented many deaths THIS YEAR.

if you have experiance with a jet ski you know that you cannot turn unles you are giving it power. Newbies that jump on with no experiance do not know this basic manuver. Im not positive that this simple thing has resulted in injuries or deaths, but a required class would educate people of this and help prevent it from happening.

Countless times I have seen jetskiers heading towards an object and then the jet ski powers down and the operator turns the handlebars (and the jetski just keeps tracking straight). most of the time the people are luckily spared of injury but i have seen some collisions.

A simple REQUIRED class that identifies key points such as this, and reviews basic operation and laws would make the waterways much safer. Not just for jet ski's bot all vessels.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-03-2008, 1:21 PM Reply   
What about the idiot that decided to pull a tube in the delta only to fling their rider into the rocks?

What about the idiot that decides to think that he can drive fast in the 5 mph zone?

What about the idiots that are going 5 mph in a 5 mph zone feel that the wake that they are creating isn't their fault because they are going the posted speed limit?

What about that jetski that decides to jump your wake 15 feet behind your boat is acceptable?

A license might not be the right direction (one that I prefer) but a MANDATORY class is definitely the right direction. Too often you see too many idiots doing wrong things.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-03-2008, 1:26 PM Reply   
So are you saying that a 16 year old without a license behind the wheel of a boat (or car for that matter) is safer than one that has gone through a testing process? I know before I had to read the stupid drivers manual and learn the laws, I would have been driving 75 on all roads and only used stop signs/lights when it was convenient.

The stupid people that kill themselves have not only stupidity to blame. They have a system that offers no warning or certification process. Got $100, rent this PWC and drive it like you stole it. Don't worry they'll see you, don't bother checking your blind spots, go as fast as you want, there are no repercussions. For some people common sense is not enough, but its enough to get in the drivers seat and raise hell. Not good enough.

Andy, all accidents happen because someone acts dumb. No a license will not stop people from being dumb, but is it really being dumb when there is no laws that states you need to be educated on the task at hand before you risk the lives of those around you?
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-03-2008, 1:40 PM Reply   
again, does anyone know how to start a petition to get a law on the ballot?
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       09-03-2008, 1:44 PM Reply   
most people dont realize that a no wake zone means no wake they think its 5mph.

a license isnt going to stop every dumb thing bit i agree with big heavy its a good base for people to have and start. Most times i correct people they say they didnt know?
Old    Erik (erik_c)      Join Date: Jan 2005       09-03-2008, 1:45 PM Reply   
The problem is what is going top be tacked on it wont just be a license it will be a whole host or regulations.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-03-2008, 2:09 PM Reply   
it won't work because of the diversity of craft available means what? one license covers all? impossible. (refer to the boat test that included panama canal questions.)

you get a car license and then need to get M1 to ride a cycle...are you really proposing a license for each type of craft?

while the difference between a Yukon and a Civic is huge they still drive pretty much the same, but the difference between a 22' wakeboard boat and a 30 foot cabin cruiser is huge in how you handle them...do they need different license requirements? this is just a huge can of worms.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-03-2008, 2:45 PM Reply   
think hard on this boys, do you really want the Dept of Motor Vehicles to have anymore to do with your boating pleasure than your boat and trailer registration? I don't.

there are boating laws, lots of them, read the ABC's of California Boating Law and learn them ALL, then think about how you would "test" people on it. in all the types of watercraft that Californians enjoy they are too diverse for A single license to do anything but add cost,increase fees and taxes and reduce related business income.

I've been boating on all types and sizes of boats for almost 30 years and I still learn new things or get challenged by a strong current and wind while trying to navigate into a marina or ramp.

I did not need anybody to tell me that I better know the laws that pertain to me(ignorance of the law is no excuse)so I have read and re read the ABC's...education is the answer not licensing.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-03-2008, 2:52 PM Reply   
do you know that sacramento county now has a law that kids under 12 when in the water(any water) must wear a lifejacket? its a law now, too many idiots let their kids drown. the teenagers and 20somethings are still drowning. And now they are talking about requiring everyone in the boat to have their lifejacket on all the time while in the boat...are you ready for that one to be a law? haha.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-03-2008, 2:57 PM Reply   
you get a car license and then need to get M1 to ride a cycle...are you really proposing a license for each type of craft?

while the difference between a Yukon and a Civic is huge they still drive pretty much the same, but the difference between a 22' wakeboard boat and a 30 foot cabin cruiser is huge in how you handle them...do they need different license requirements?


this is the point exactly. what would it hurt? you take one test and you're done. there should be different tests for different boat length's. makes perfect sense to me. i'd take it. what have i got to loose i'm know i'm smart enough
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-03-2008, 3:52 PM Reply   
its more simple than your making it.

a posibiulity:

class 1: jet ski's, waverunners, and vessels up to 16'

class 2: vessels between 16' - 25'

class 3: vessels 25' - 50'

class 4: vessels 50'+

most licencing applicants would take class 1 or 2 (just like vehicles).

this would be good for the state for revenue gereration and showing the public they are doing something about safty on the waterways besides "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

This would be good for "licencing centers". I see a bunch of wake schools also offering licencing. a whole private market would be created!
Old     (malibudude)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-03-2008, 3:57 PM Reply   
Great more government involvement since that solves all great problems. No Iím not in favor of a blow hard politician who canít even pass a State budget on time to write a worthless piece of legislation that will not affect the crap we deal w/ on the water. This is just another excuse to squeeze money from the tax paying public. I took a boating course (ABC of California Boating) and showed proof to my insurance company and receive the benefit of reduced rates, much greater incentive for people than a license.

It would behoove the owners of rental equipments/dealers etc to do some basic concepts on safety and possibly even refer them to the safety books as the bottom line itís worth it financially for them.

Do driverís licenses stop people from driving drunk, running red lights or speeding? Nope they will do it regardless while the rest of us donít because of safety, the whole cost factor, and inconvenience that it may cause us.

Just say no to more government and to more taxes.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-03-2008, 7:19 PM Reply   
so I will need three licenses?
one for my dingy thats under 15 feet
one for my skiboat
one for my cabincruiser

that's ridiculous...sorry.

what about sailboats? airboats? solos?

this idea is dingy thats why its never made it anywhere...

rental business is huge bu$ine$$ bringing in millions in income and generating taxes for the state. if they were renters crashing and killing it would have ended it long ago but its owners and friends of owners not renters that cause most probs and its from inexperience and operator error usually coupled with alcohol...licenses do not stop that kind of thing.

its so easy to avoid the crowds by not going out at the popular launches on the bigweekends, head to the launch no one goes to, I know where no one goes on the 4th of july, when I go to Discovery Park I am ready to deal with stupid people...hell a guy drove his truck into mine on the ramp there and he had a license.
A license does not and will not make a good boater only experience does that.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-03-2008, 7:23 PM Reply   
and that makes me ask again are you all willing to wear your lifejackets in your boat ALL THE TIME? by law?
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-03-2008, 11:38 PM Reply   
So Andy, what do you suggest? You've told us all 100 reasons why you are against it, but are yet to offer any sort of solution or alternative. You are clearly very passionate about this subject and must have some constructive thoughts. Please share.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-04-2008, 9:24 AM Reply   
so I will need three licenses?
one for my dingy thats under 15 feet
one for my skiboat
one for my cabincruiser

that's ridiculous...sorry.

but that's how we run our streets...you can't opertate an 18 wheeler without a CDL...you can't ride a motorcycle w/o a M1 so what should make our waterways any different??? people still rent cars and they have to have a liscense to do so. so you make the test short and to the point instead of some long overdrawn out 39829824 question thing...

you yourself said its inexperience and operator error that leads to accidents. well someones first experience should be with a pen and paper taking a test. but thats just my opinion.
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-04-2008, 9:44 AM Reply   
wouldnt you need three licences if you had a motorcycle, car and big rig?
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-04-2008, 10:04 AM Reply   
thats the point...
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       09-04-2008, 10:05 AM Reply   
well you not what they say "common sense isnt so common anymore"

I cant belive some peoples thinking on here. A license for different class of boats is exactly what we need. god forbid i need to learn about what im going to drive and when i put peoples lives in my hand.

as for renters i saw a two teens put there rental up on the dock at tracy oasis a month back. It was right in front of the rental guy he laughed and said dont worry it happens all the time. 20 mins later we saw the same guy smashing right next to our downed rider. we saw them again and almost gave them a beat down at the dock later they were trying to mouth off. Finally he said well i didnt know that the orange flag meant there was a downed rider in the water. wtf
Old     (malibudude)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-04-2008, 10:22 AM Reply   
I'd suggest to work w/ dealers and rental agencies. Make it more known that most insurance companies offer reduced rates for completion of a boating safety course. This was the reason I took it. Having Gov't dictate policy isn't always in the end what one set out to accomplish. While the goal and the intentions are admirable govít has a way of going in a different direction and youíve lost all control. When businesses realize that if they require a safety course of some kind to protect their investments, which is where Iíd spend my efforts, then itíll become a more worthwhile crusade.
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-04-2008, 10:42 AM Reply   
if there is a licence requirement, or saftey course requirment there will be a positive effect on the water and the local economy.

people will learn the laws, because they would have to.

people that do not get a required licence or "certification of completion" will get ticketed by the local friendly water patrol. tickets writen create revenue for the local government = better launch ramps, and better marking of obsticales, etc.

The licencing or required safty course will inform people of rules, laws, "common sense" practices, and safe basic operating guidelines.

This would increase safety and save lives...and it would probably make the water better for us, too (especially if our wake schools could be licencing centers and teach people not to power turn!)
Old    Michael Mueller (sacmule)      Join Date: May 2007       09-04-2008, 12:21 PM Reply   
I like the multiple license proposal (Class a, b, c, etc.) THe point of this license is to increase the knowledge of the average boater. Enforcing the license is not as essential as ensuring that boats are operated by competent people. I think that a peace officer (Coast guard, ranger, sheriff, etc) should ask to see a certification/ license at anytime (on the lake, kiosk at lake entry, or at the docks). I would ask that not everyone in the boat need a license to drive but rather at anytime the boat is under power that a licensed person be inside the boat; therefore if the license boat owner wants to ride behind the boat, a second licensed driver would be required to pull the owner. This would give more freedom to operate a boat but still meet the safety component. Parents could still teach their kids, family and friends to drive a boat while instructing them on boating safety. Proof of license would be required to register your boat.

Proof of license or renewal would be required for boat registration.

Rental agencies and boat dealers could be required to show a short 15 min safety video to the buyer/ renter regarding boating safety and operation. For the boat owner/ buyer it could be required to submit a completed exam form to the Dept of Motor Vehicles to certify their competence in boating before tags would be issued.

We need to remember that the point of this is to increase boating knowledge which should translate to safer lakes and waterways.
Old    ben hugo (nitro909)      Join Date: Jun 2006       09-04-2008, 1:18 PM Reply   
Sacmule, I like these suggestions. The rentals is where a lot of people semm to have a big issue. Most diff things that we do (go kart racing, skydiving, paintball, riding roller coasters) all have a short video or instructional of some type.

Rental agencies could show some type of instructional aids/classes and be allowed to offer 1 day user licenses. This would allow them to stay in business and give the renters a little more knowledge.

The licenses could be tiered, so instead of having a B, C, M license there could be a PWC, under 15, 15 to 25, over 25, but in order to get the 2nd, 3rd, etc.. lincense, you must be qualified on the previous.
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       09-04-2008, 1:25 PM Reply   
You have to have a motorcycle license to rent/ride a Motorcycle and that doesn't seem to affect the motorcycle rental/sales biz.
Old     (malibudude)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-04-2008, 2:18 PM Reply   
Here is an approved test by the California Department of Waterways.

http://www.boat-ed.com/ca/index.htm or http://www.dbw.ca.gov/BoaterInfo/BoatSafeCourse.aspx

Last year 57% of the accidents in California came from PWC's.

Majority of the accidents last year were from excessive speed, inattentive driver (by far the most) and followed thirdly by inexperienced drivers.

Most accidents/fatalities by age for powered boats is 31-40 yo, not the underage drivers.

Whynot require a licensed individual be onboard and no vessle w/ an underage 16yo should have kids on board less than 18 just as it is w/ autos.
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       09-04-2008, 2:29 PM Reply   
You know what, I was of the opinion that a boating license that requires an exam wouldn't do any good, but then I went to the DMV website and looked again at the CA class C written exam, and I've completely changed my mind. This stuff just isn't obvious. People need to be educated. Have a look

==============================================

> When you tailgate other drivers (drive close to their rear bumper):

You can frustrate the other drivers and make them angry.
Your actions cannot result in a traffic citation.
You help reduce traffic congestion.

==============================================

> You may drive off of the paved roadway to pass another vehicle:

If the shoulder is wide enough to accommodate your vehicle
If the vehicle ahead of you is turning left.
Under no circumstances

==============================================

> California's "Basic Speed Law" says:

You should never drive faster than posted speed limits.
You should never drive faster than is safe for current conditions.
The maximum speed limit in California is 70 mph on certain freeways.

==============================================

> There is no crosswalk and you see a pedestrian crossing your lane ahead. You should:

Make eye contact and then pass him/her.
Slow down as you pass him/her.
Stop and let him/her finish crossing the street.

==============================================

> To turn left from a multilane one-way street onto a one-way street, you should start your turn from:

Any lane (as long as it is safe)
The lane closest to the left curb
The lane in the center of the road.

==============================================

> If you drive faster than other vehicles on a road with one lane in each direction and continually pass the other cars, you will:

Get you to your destination much faster and safer.
Increase your chances of an accident.
Help prevent traffic congestion.

==============================================

> You must obey instructions from school crossing guards:

At all times.
Only during school hours.
Unless you do not see any children present.
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       09-04-2008, 2:36 PM Reply   
malibudude, did you read what you posted? Do you really "file a float plan" before you head out wakeboarding? Do you want that to be a requirement, like when you fly a plane in IMC?
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-04-2008, 6:59 PM Reply   
I believe in personal responsibility. it is your responsibility to know the laws and rules that affect you and your particular boat, you could have a 4 yr college course on boating get a degree and still not know everything. and until you have 4 years of on the water experience, have launched and retrieved 100 times in different weather and currents, etc, you will still have alot to learn and be surprised by something.

I am not for growing our government any bigger.

so you want to give up the freedom of teaching your friends how to drive the boat? everyone who ever drives will need to get licensed first...like thats gonna happen...get a clue folks...need a third? oh yeah do you have a boat license for my size(s) of boat(s)?

i did make a suggestion and that is for people who know better to avoid the "popular" launches on the big weekends because that is pretty much when the accidents occur, congested waterways, alcohol, inexperience(licensed or not). Experienced boaters need to take initiative and go up to someone who is doing something wrong and politely point it out and offer the prefferred way of doing it. educate the ignorant.

and you all are ignoring what sacramento is really considering now and that is to require everyone in the boat to wear lifejackets at all times. are you all ready to wear your lifejackets all the time while in the boat...everybody...

I don't want that law. I hope it does not pass.
I don't think a boating license is necessary, i think you are making a big deal out of something that is not really a big problem.

Like the rentals, you all make it sound like renters can just go off with reckless abandon. usually the have left a 1000 or more dollar deposit for the safe return of rented craft, or an open line on the credit card. And they get charged for any damage.

I've rented snowmobiles at Bear Valley and they let you go ride off on your own, your friends teach you to ride, and the road is crowded sometimes and the crosscountry skiers hate the snowmobiles who actually pay to groom the road, its the same kind of user conflicts of our recreation areas that spawn crazy legislation.

Knock yourselves out though try to get boat licensing made into law, it ain't gonna happen.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-04-2008, 7:09 PM Reply   
i am amazed that the state can't even figure out who owns all the abandoned boats rotting in the delta...and the state has the registration records...but we as taxpayers are footing the bill to remove those boats to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-04-2008, 7:15 PM Reply   
Boating course offered

The U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary, Flotilla 35, will offer an eight-week course on boating skills and seamanship from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m. Wednesdays starting Sept. 3 at the Carmichael Park Community Clubhouse, 5750 Grant Ave., Carmichael.

Topics include selecting the right boat, required safety equipment, trailering your boat, boat handling, highway signs of the waterways, rules of the road, inland boating and boating emergencies.

Course fee is $60 per person, with discounts available for couples or groups.

Registration is required. To register or for more information, call (916) 539-8199.

All you pro boating license guys need to attend this 8 week course.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-04-2008, 8:00 PM Reply   
Andy, I'll try and see if there is one offered nearby. Thanks for the heads up. As conceited as it may sound, I am more concerned about the yahoos that have little experience and zero regard for safety. The problem is those type people don't voluntarily go out of their way to better themselves.

The thing about the license idea is that you can't educate just the folks that need common sense, so instead you have to educate/test all. I really was hoping you'd offer a legitimate alternative. And aside from a personal inconvenience, I'm really at a loss to understand your strong stance against something like this. Just don't like gov't interference?
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-04-2008, 8:12 PM Reply   
yes, i don't like bigger government, more regulations, fees, taxes etc...its not interference...i do not feel that the statistics warrant any additional requirements to what we currently have in place.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-04-2008, 8:20 PM Reply   
that's what the coast guard, fish and game, and sheriffs are out there to enforce the laws we already have on the books...plenty of them.

part of being an experienced boater is being able to spot a newbie and then stay far from them...and then learn to avoid newbie launch sites on big weekends...when you get alot of boats together they are going to bump...or worse.
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-04-2008, 8:57 PM Reply   
I am in favor of them. where i ride there are always peole who drive to close, against traffic and stuff. a litle teaching and learning to get a license might could teach people things they have not thought about but could easily change to improve the lake and avoid dangerous situations. the thing is we see is alcohol, not really gonna change much there. people go to the lake to drink....

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