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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through May 08, 2008

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Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-14-2008, 8:32 AM Reply   
Anyone upgraded from the Rule 2000 to the Rule 4000? Can the system handle it? With the upgraded sacs, I'm looking to fill them quicker.
Old    Chanes (cdtex14)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-14-2008, 8:57 AM Reply   
any info on this would be nice for sure... the 1100 takes forever to fill.
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-14-2008, 9:24 AM Reply   
I haven't replaced the stock 2000 gph. I have upgraded it a few other ways. I have stacked another pump
on top of the stock pump in series and then wired it to an acc switch. While filling your bags just flip the switch and it speeds it up quite a bit. I have also drilled another hole in the boat and added another intake. I had one pump filling the front and another filling the back bags. This setup fills my 2150 on system in about 7 minutes.
Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-14-2008, 1:16 PM Reply   
I think my pump may be going out. I was told they only have a 1 year warranty on them. If I have to buy another one, it might as well be the 4000. You can get really crazy and buy the 8000 which is a 2 4000 pump setup. That may be excessive though.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       04-14-2008, 1:24 PM Reply   
The flow is ultimately limited byt he size of the ballast hose anyway.

I had a buddy with an 06 21V and his hose runnign to his front sac was kinked by the gas tank...the fill time was ridiculously slow.
Old    Newty (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       04-14-2008, 1:26 PM Reply   
What kind of prices are we talking for the 2000 and the 4000? I like the "stacking pumps" idea. I'm trying to dial in the factory system with adding and stacking sacks. Wife complained it took too long so thats like a green light to upgrade... right?
Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-14-2008, 1:59 PM Reply   
Think you can get a 4000 for under $200 new. My hoses are kinked. We lifted the seat up and pulled the quick disconnects off the manifold and only flipped on one switch. It should have been coming out pretty strong and it wasn't. That's one of my questions. Can the ballast hose support the 4000 or will it just be restricted.
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-14-2008, 4:43 PM Reply   
Randy,
I just sold my 21V and I ditched that 2000 for the 4000. It made quite it quite a bit faster, and it was REALLY fast when your driving and filling.

I removed that ball valve and just put a 90 on the intake, put on 1 1/4" hose (might have been 1 1/2") to the pump, then the same hose from the pump to the intake on the filter. All the switches worked great.

Supra REALLY needs to do something different with their ballast set up. They are using high pressure sprinkler valves for a low pressure system, and it really sucks. Plus only using one pump to fill everything just doesn't cut it.

I'll try to get some pics up later. I have some on my home computer.
Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-14-2008, 5:45 PM Reply   
Thanks bbr. Pics would be sweet if you can find them. Just read over my last post. Adam, my hoses were not kinked. Just a mistype.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-14-2008, 6:11 PM Reply   
Jon - I have always wanted to do that! If you have isolated a fill pump to front only, are you using the solenoid valve when filling the front bag?
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-14-2008, 8:17 PM Reply   
Chris,

Yes, I am still using the stock solenoid. I capped the manifold where the front solenoid came stock. I took a hose from my new fill pump and then ran it directly to the front solenoid.
Old    DC Bateman (dcb)      Join Date: Mar 2006       04-14-2008, 8:59 PM Reply   
the sprinkler valve system skiers choice uses is a reliable but slow way of filling ballast. I added the gravity games sac to the front and two 750s to the rear of my xlv and it would take too long to fill for my taste. plus i didnt like having to drive fast to prime the pump. I wanted to start filling as soon as the boat was in the water. what i did was replace the stock manifold sprinkler valve assy., with a new manfold loaded with three tsnaumi 800s and check valves. i kept the rule feeding the manifold and the stranier. To keep the bags from filling on their own, i got rid of the scoop. I wired the tsnaumi's from the seleniod wires, replacing the fuses with 7.5 amp ones. now i can start filling as soon as the boat hits the water and fill the 2650 lbs in about the same time as it took to fill the stock sacs.
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-14-2008, 10:26 PM Reply   
Ok here are some pics. This was my first attempt to quicken my fill times.
Upload

I added a 1200 Tsunami to the existing intake. However, the two pumps just "stole" from one another. It worked pretty good when driving, however, when we put the boat in the water we were ready to ride. So faster was better.

Then I went to this:
Upload
Upload
Upload

I had also had the 1150 in the bow and the 750's in the lockers. I wanted to keep it as stock as possible since I was selling the boat. Like I mentioned, it was REALLY fast when driving, and it looked stock. Good luck.
Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-15-2008, 3:58 AM Reply   
Thanks for everyones input. BBR, that last setup of yours looks pretty quick and painless to install without too much work.
Old    bthom (billthom)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-15-2008, 1:38 PM Reply   
BBR - thanks for the pics. I love the progression of how clean everything is in the first pic, to the last pic. :-)

So is that a 2inch tube coming out of the new pump in the last pic? Did you notice any slowdown from the smaller inlet tube? Or was that pump just so fast it didn't matter?
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-15-2008, 4:16 PM Reply   
I think that it was either 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" I.D. braided suction hose from Home Depot. I didn't really notice a slow down, of course when you just sitting in the water its slower than when your driving. I would think that maybe if you got rid of the scoop intake, it might work even better. It just screamed when driving though.
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       04-26-2008, 12:40 PM Reply   
I've been having the same problem with my ballast fill times. I was planning on doing some upgrades and after reading this post I ordered up that Rule 3800 pictured above. The thing is Huge!! I've got a few questions:

I do agree that fill times are limited by pipe size and increasing the size between the pump and the scoop is a good idea. But where did you, bbr, change the size in the plumbing? I took off my shut-off valve and the 90 degree elbow. Between the elbow and the scoop there are two brass risers. One that comes off the scoop with threads inside and outside, and one above it that screws into the inside of the lower riser. I would like to screw onto the lower riser, it's a larger diameter than the upper riser. My question is, do these two risers separate? I have tried to unscrew the upper riser with no luck and I do not want to damage the threads if I am not able to get it off and have to use it. So where did you connect onto the scoop with your larger pipe? Or can someone else enlighten me on this?

The other question I have is about the idea of stacking the pumps as discussed earlier in the post. Would I really see a difference in speed if I leave the 2000 Rule in place and added the 3800 Rule behind it? This setup would be keeping the smaller pipe from the scoop and the stock pump. In the other setup, only using the 3800 Rule, I would be increasing the size of the pipe between the scoop and the pump allowing for more water flow. Any ideas guys?
Old    jhoffeld            05-07-2008, 4:47 PM Reply   
I have a 21V that used to take 45 minutes to fill the ballast. After spending about $350 it now fills in 12 minutes using the same basic setup. I increased the scoop size to 1 1/4". This is not very diffucult. It is a $50 part from West Marine. There is now a tee on top of the scoop thru-hull that feeds two Rule 2000's. I purchased an extra identical pump for Live Bait Larry's. These pumps are not built perfectly, so I used a Dremel to clean up some edges in both pumps that proved to increase the flow (tested this by seeing how long it took to pump out a 5 gallon bucket.) One pump feeds the manifold as before but with no strainer anymore (the scoop keeps out large debris.) I replaced each valve with 1" valves from Lowe's for about $12 each. I also replaced the fill hoses with 1" from West Marine for about $75 and new 1" Fly High fittings from M2Sports for about $75. While replacing the hoses, I found that Skiers Choice pinched the front fill hose between the floor panel and the gas tank. I had to notch out the floor panel to make clearance for the larger hose.

Now for the second pump, I added another 1" sprinkler valve that that routes the flow to the front sack. It tees in downstream of the original valve. The new pump and valve are wired into one of the accessory switches. So basically you just flip one more switch and you have two pumps filling the entire system. Once you shut-off the rear sacs, both pumps will be filling the front sac.

I also added a vent line coming from the top of the front sac, as I used to have to manually vent it. I just used some of the old 3/4" hose and fitting and teed it into the pumpout line.

All of the work to about 10 hours and very little help from a good friend. I hope this helps some of you. I guess, if this setup works for anyone, I can come up with some pics.
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-07-2008, 5:12 PM Reply   
I have many of the same questions that Kraig has....
I also find that there is limited space to work with down there.
Old    Dave (schmo)      Join Date: Oct 2003       05-07-2008, 5:54 PM Reply   
I know I owe pictures of my setup but this is what me and the service guy at my dealer did. The entire system works just like stock, 3 switches, one for front, and one for each rear.

What we did:

Drilled another hole in the hull and added another scoop, shut off valve, pump and strainer.

We then took the sprinkler valve that controls the front bag off of the stock manifold and put an end cap on it to seal it shut.

We attached that valve to the new scoop and pump.

We wired the center switch to now turn on the second added pump INSTEAD of the first pump. We needed to up the fuse by 5amps.

So now when you press the center fill button, the new added pump turns on and the valve opens (the only valve attached to that pump).

When you switch any of the rear bags on, the first, stock pump opens and the correspond valve opens to fill one/both of the rear bags. If you didn't look under the hood, you would think it was stock.

The front 1150 bag fills up super quick. I also have 900s in the rear (never filled them all the way) but they fill much faster now too. It fills at least twice as fast as before (if not faster).

Pictures will be posted after I take some this weekend
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-07-2008, 6:07 PM Reply   
Dave how much did that run you?
Old    Dave (schmo)      Join Date: Oct 2003       05-08-2008, 6:27 AM Reply   
I believe it worked out to about 400 bucks. I could have probably done it for cheaper but having it done from the service guy at the dealer (who I know well and trust) was worth it. It acts like a factory system and the install is clean with a separate hole in the hull, scoop, shutoff valve, pump and filter.

Worth every penny.

Note this is on an 08 22SSV however should work with all of them.

I mentioned to them that Skiers Choice should at least offer separate pumps for each bag as an option. They all have separate empty pumps and I can't imagine that it would cost that much more to have separate fills for each from the factory. Heck, I would pay for this option in a heart beat (just did) since my time is very valuable to me.

(Message edited by Schmo on May 08, 2008)

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