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Old    Rob Andrus (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-24-2008, 11:41 PM Reply   
April 24th, 2008

Maybe someone can remind me how bad global warming has gotten. I keep forgetting cause it keeps on snowing on me.

Here's a pic, yes it was taken with a cell phone so you can't really see the flakes but it was coming down pretty hard. I don't know how much more heat I can take.

Upload
Upload
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Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       04-25-2008, 12:59 AM Reply   
Yeah snowed here in So Oregon again the other day. Looks like winter wants to hang on as long as it can.
Old    E Johnson (ethan31)      Join Date: Jun 2007       04-25-2008, 5:26 AM Reply   
Another foot or more predicted for tonight.
I'm sick of this crap. that would put the snow total for my area close to 4.5-5feet just for April.

WTF!!! Al Gore lick my sack.
Old    Justin Chase (veritas)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-25-2008, 5:33 AM Reply   
Hahaha, we're feeling the warmth up here in NH- no snow in a few weeks, and it's been 70+ for like a full week now...the week before it was mid 30's
Old    CIREboardshorts.com (nuckledragger)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-25-2008, 5:45 AM Reply   
I know....Its called the natural climate cycle of the earth not global warming. And to think Al Gore won a Nobel Peace Prize.....

But on that note, we do impact the climate of the earth, just not to the point that Mr. Gore claims we do.
Old    Brandon Stroud (stroh)      Join Date: Apr 2008       04-25-2008, 5:48 AM Reply   
Not to brag but It's been 80+ in So Indiana this week.
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-25-2008, 7:41 AM Reply   
weird fact: the volcano (one volcano) in indonesia a few years back put more greenhouse gases, and particulate pollution into the atmosphere than the human race has since the industrial revolution.
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       04-25-2008, 7:46 AM Reply   
I was reading that Global Warming is over. We're going into another ice age!
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-25-2008, 8:04 AM Reply   
Can't cure cancer, but based on our infinite knowledge we know what the earth will do!
Upload
Old    LimoTinted (ridininmd)      Join Date: Jun 2006       04-25-2008, 8:36 AM Reply   
It's no longer called global warming, now they refer to it as "The Climate Crisis"
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-25-2008, 8:42 AM Reply   
ahhh, man-bear-pig, what a ferocious animal. Thanks Al Gore, for trying to save us!
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-25-2008, 9:00 AM Reply   
http://www.nysun.com/news/food-crisis-eclipsing-climate-change
http://awesternheart.blogspot.com/2008/04/prepare-for-new-ice-age-says-australian.html

Thanks Al Whore...get all your facts straight. Now he has pushed the warming issue and greenhouse gases...smaller cars are will be more popular..and with sipping fatality proned econo boxes back on the road...the oil companies are increasing their profits to make up for the future loss of revenue. Big Dumb @$$ Jerk. Go back to inventing the internet...you freak! Go ahead and get your stupid battery powered cars...look down the road 10 years from now. Hummer H3 is better for the environment than that of a toyota prius. Look at the website dusttodust.com It says it all.
Old    dave Noti_dad (noti_dad)      Join Date: Jul 2003       04-25-2008, 9:54 AM Reply   
I just read we (the Pac NW) are in a special 5-20 year La Nina where we will have colder wetter winters. This year broke the record for 2 place in most snowfall (575" so far), which broke last year (the previous 2nd place). Global Warming? I don't think there's a "global warming" but some areas are warmer than they've been.

I say let it snow like hell all winter and get as hot as it wants in the summer.
Old    Dan (dppaneig)      Join Date: Feb 2008       04-25-2008, 10:02 AM Reply   
Dave did you really get a lot of snow last year? We had the cold but not the snow. This year was incredible, everyday I went snowboarding we had powder. Knee to waist deep but last year was depressing for us in western colorado.

This was a record breaking year for a lot of resorts, Crested Butte Resort broke the record for total snowfall.

Powell is going to be awesome this year!
Old    dave Noti_dad (noti_dad)      Join Date: Jul 2003       04-25-2008, 11:51 AM Reply   
07/08 - 580" (new 2nd)
06/07 - 390"
05/06 - 450" This was 2nd 2 years ago not last year, oops)
04/05 - nothing resorts were open for a few weeks and then closed for the season.

98/99 - 603"

normal is right at 300" SO we have been way above that the last few years.
Old    Torey (wake4chicks)      Join Date: Oct 2006       04-25-2008, 12:37 PM Reply   
yea here its a high of 35 at the end of april. frustrates me. this global warming is getting out of hand
Old    jumbo jeb (jumbojeb)      Join Date: May 2005       04-25-2008, 12:46 PM Reply   
Let's keep the political misinformation-fest, stupid comments posts in the non-wakeboarding forum, please.
Old    Josh Weitekamp (da_kamp)      Join Date: Jan 2008       04-25-2008, 4:20 PM Reply   
HEEEEEYYYY !!!!!!!!


i've always been a fan of global warming, and it needs to hurry the BLEEP up !

oh btw if you look at one of Al's graphs in the movies and pause, it shows the greenhouse gases going up, AFTER the temperature. I laughed so hard when that showed up and left the room

(Message edited by da_kamp on April 25, 2008)
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-25-2008, 4:48 PM Reply   
Isn't political and misinformation-fest redundant?
Old    E Johnson (ethan31)      Join Date: Jun 2007       04-25-2008, 5:21 PM Reply   
No global warming here right now.

Its snowing like a SOB, couldnt see 50yards ahead of myself on the way home.

Got about 6in in the last 1.5 hours. And its still dumping. This getting old. I was on the lake this day last year. Al gore your a idiot.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-26-2008, 5:57 AM Reply   
jumbo only one here that is misinformed is you. do your homework. And if we should keep our political views out of here...then why do you have your political view on your profile dude? This global warming SCARE threatens are our sport and it's future. It needs to be talked about. Otherwise our sport will be limited to just cable parks. And we don't have one of those here in Michigan. And if the left is so right...then why does my blue state have over 8% unemployment. I can bash them...because they are not working for me or anyone in this stinken state. Im off my soapbox...sorry to be so core..but I am just tired of the ignorance when it comes to these topics. Look at ALL the facts.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-26-2008, 8:31 AM Reply   
what a depressing thread

(Message edited by joe_crawley on April 26, 2008)
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-26-2008, 9:49 AM Reply   
It snowed in MN today, and as I said in the other thread that really is a kick to the seeds when it snows at the end of April - but we've had it too good the past few winters so I figured we were due for some pain.
Old    Justin Lamoureux (lives2wake)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-26-2008, 12:25 PM Reply   
Global warming = climate change = extra snow here and there, more heat here and there. Weather becomes less predictable and more extreme. Weather patterns get pushed into abnormal areas that they hadn't before.
That being said, I understand...it's f'n cold outsite! I wish it would warm up.
Old    Nick Farrell (nickdakoolkat)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-26-2008, 12:28 PM Reply   
global warming isnt the correct term, some places will get a lot colder...its called global climate change, its something the earth does naturally...but we are simply helping speed up the process
Old    david (dnp33)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-26-2008, 12:29 PM Reply   
is everybody actually under the impression that global warming is a good thing? it might not have anything to do with greenhouse gases but it definately has to do with humans and its not good.
Old    Derrick (dnannen)      Join Date: Nov 2007       04-26-2008, 12:49 PM Reply   
Global Warming = A Joke

Climate change happens deal with it, don't cry about it. Life evolves.
Old    Justin Chase (veritas)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-26-2008, 6:05 PM Reply   
Agreed Derrick.

Sure, the earth may be going through a climate change. Last I knew, we had ice ages at one point. Yeah, I bet all the emissions caused those too. The earth's climate goes up and down, it's normal.

And if it's not- oh well. Hybrids are more detrimental to the environment than normal cars, so obviously our government is retarded. Oh wait- we already knew that.

This winter was fairly warm in NH (lots of snow)- 2 years ago it was below freezing for almost a month straight. Hmmm...seems that my parents remember this happening many times in their 50 years of living here. It gets warmer...and then colder...and then warmer...and then colder. Only difference is now we have people that think it's their job to control the earth- they are no longer satisfied with controlling everything else. Whats next...is the universe going to start collapsing, so we need to build a gigantic sub-frame for it made out of political bullsh*t? I bet it would be large enough.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-26-2008, 6:22 PM Reply   
snow forcasted for wisco in the next few days...
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-26-2008, 8:13 PM Reply   
Man, that sucks for you guys... I've been riding the past two days with only boardshorts and my comp vest... The water's incredibly warm... Like, 63 degrees or more warm. I love it.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-27-2008, 6:28 AM Reply   
rode yesterday and going out today with air temps in upper 50's because snow is forecasted for monday and tuesday which we will be in low 40's..this week in michigan. The rest of the week is slow temperatures climbing..maybe by friday it will be 60. the owner of the weather channel is suing Al Gore over his global warming claims. we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Oh BTW...if you have those energy light bulbs (the coiling type bulb) they have mercury in them. you can't throw those in the trash now like batteries. Plus if one breaks HASMAT is suppose to come and do the clean up @ your home. If it gets on the carpet..your suppose to cut the carpet and pad and remove them. thats not a joke either!
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       04-27-2008, 6:35 AM Reply   
yeah man...they think we may get snow flurries into may. WHAT IS THAT??? GLOBAL WARMING?? WHAT? i wanna be chillin in Canada in boardshorts for Christmas before i graduate college. Al better get some more concerts out there to speed this up
Old    Ryan Siebring (lostkgb78)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-27-2008, 7:50 AM Reply   
So what should I do?

Should I Drive down the freeway in my H2, windows down, a/c cranking, running hybrids off the road, drinking out of my styrofoam cup, then throw it out the window, listening to Bill O'reailly and giving anyone that looks like a muslim dirty looks cause they probably be a terrorist

I'll next see Al Gore driving and pull up next to him, flip him the bird (How dare he try to help mankind and the environment)

After that, I think I'll go home to my 7 bedroom home that my wife and I live alone in, beat my wife, drink an american bear and then get on WW to spread propaganda...
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-27-2008, 8:02 AM Reply   
That makes two of us Ryan.

Wisconsin is getting snow this week, or so they say... someone just needs to build a cable park up here and put one of those big soocer/football stadium soft top roofs over the top. Then it could be another ice age and I wouldn't care
Old    Justin Lamoureux (lives2wake)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-27-2008, 8:39 AM Reply   
Thanks Ryan.
Old    Justin Chase (veritas)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-27-2008, 9:03 AM Reply   
I don't think it's a bad thing that he's trying to help. I think we do need to be more environmentally friendly. I just think there are better ways to do it.

Everything doesn't need to happen at once. The US of A needs to think about what needs to be done, and then do it. Not do, then think and realize they DID WRONG.

Theres gotta be better ways that making every broken light bulb or on fire hybrid a hazmat scene. Yes?
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-27-2008, 9:19 AM Reply   
Ryan, if you think Gore intended to help mankind and the environment give me a break. And let us all be honest, making extreme generalizations really doesn't help make a point for anything - and I'm still trying to see your point. If Gore's such a true American hero, you basically just described his daily life in terms of pollution and energy consumption (minus the flipping himself the bird, but you never know, he might).

Is pollution a problem, yes. Is global warming/global cooling/climate crisis/whatever they are calling it this week a life or death situation for you and your kids, no - but keep sticking up for people like Gore and keep buying carbon credits and then pay more 'environmental' taxes before the earth falls into the sun. Over generalizing things is fun!
Old    Justin Lamoureux (lives2wake)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-27-2008, 9:46 AM Reply   
Sinko, you're right. It's not a life and death situation but, in the long run it could be if we do nothing. We don't have the rite to mess up the planet and pass it on to the next generations.
That being said, I don't think we should all park our boats and stop riding. Go out, go ride. Enjoy the water and the outdoors. The more you play outside, the more you appreciate it and the more you will want to protect it. Just make other good choices.
Old    Justin Chase (veritas)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-27-2008, 1:30 PM Reply   
If global warming was such an issue, and cars etc make it so much worse....why doesn't the government take like 90% of those record profits the oil companies are making every quarter? Yes, the taxes on gasoline are high. That doesn't mean they have the right to screw everyone over.

I hate gas companies and their excuses for such high prices.
Old    Goride (goride)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-27-2008, 1:47 PM Reply   
Im actually enjoying the high gas prices not because I like spending more money at the pump but it’s starting to make people realize there are other alternatives.

Most common people like to turn their heads away from problems that don’t directly affect them. We’ve known for a long time gasoline engines were inefficient, wasteful and dirty.

Now that gas prices are at a record high and people are freaking out the car companies are now starting to create hybrids, electric, more diesel efficient vehicles and hydrogen (mercedes/daimler).

Gas companies have been buying up the patents and new technology for years trying to keep it off the market but now that it’s so much in demand and there’s so much growth potential not as many people are selling out now.

One thing that’s bad about new tech is that people are so gullible they think they’re saving the environment by driving these hybrid cars that uses these environmentally hazardous batteries that use many of our planets limited natural minerals. Also when these batteries are no more we have to try to extract what ever acid/caustic material out and recycle that and then we just landfill the rest of the batteries.

Unless they can recycle the batteries 100% I think these hybrids will do more damage than good.

I would like to see hydrogen technology expand more. People are worried about some kind of detonation but they’ve already developed technology that stores hydrogen energy in frames of cars that when involved in any kind of accident that the material that stores the hydrogen power actually acts as a cushioned for your car increasing your chance of survival.

Ok so now that ive killed a good 20 mins at work typing this I think ill go back to work.
Old    Derrick (dnannen)      Join Date: Nov 2007       04-27-2008, 1:58 PM Reply   
Ryan that sounds fun!!!

Sinko hit the spot though Al Gore is a salesmen. The more he makes people scared the more they will give him money to fix it cause they believe he can make it happen. WRONG! You see when someone tells you to buy a new car, boat, washer, dryer, light bulbs, and so on cause its greener is because they want your money, the corperations dont give flying f about the enviorment. We the consumers do. Havent you noticed that product built in todays world dont last worth crap. My grandmother had an oven that lasted 30 years. Her new one thats energy efficent lasted 4. Light bulbs use to last for ages the new ones blow every other month. Its to get you to keep buying more. People they want your money!!!!! We need to make changes but by giving our government more money to fix the enviormental issues isnt going to help. The government thinks they know how to spend your money and as far as I can see they are worthless at it. So I say f them and Al Gore.
Old    Rob Andrus (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-28-2008, 8:15 AM Reply   
1st. The slogan of climate change is only now being used because global warming isn't happening or proving to be as deadly as the envirowackos hoped.

2nd. If global warming were real it would save far more lives than global cooling. Crops could grow longer, less people freezing to death etc.

3rd. Being green is a sales slogan, almost everything promoted as green today is the same as it used to be, just got a new sticker on the box. Al Gore has now made millions and millions with his global warming crap and personally flies around in his private jet and pollutes far more than you or I do.

4th. This part is purely speculation, but if you study the population growth patterns of the US over the past few decades the warmer climate areas such as Phoenix, So Cal, Las Vegas, Florida, Texas and other parts of the south have had a huge population boom. Many people have moved from colder climates to warmer. Now when they're told, hey its warmer than ever before they go "Hey you're right!"

5th. Climate change happens every year! every month and everyday, even most hours the climate changes. Did you know that most of Utah used to be covered by a lake almost 500 feet deep? You can still see the water line high on the mountains. Our best scientists and weather forecasters have a 5-10 forecast that is only rarely accurate, so give me a break about the foreseeing centuries into the future of our weather. The climate will change just like it always has. We just have to hang on for the ride.

Last. No one here believes in polluting. We should not litter. We should keep things clean and beautiful, trees and grass are great. But seriously, the earth pollutes its self far more with volcano's etc than we do. I wish we could control global temperature but we can't.
Old    Steve - O (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-28-2008, 9:08 AM Reply   
"2nd. If global warming were real it would save far more lives than global cooling. Crops could grow longer, less people freezing to death etc."

Rob- It doesn't always work that way. Some places that have never been able to grow crops would be able to grow them. But others that grow them now would be too hot to grow anything.

}

I just watched the documentary

"Who killed the electric car" the other night. It was pretty good and really makes you think about some of this stuff.
Old    Ryan Siebring (lostkgb78)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-29-2008, 12:16 AM Reply   
Wow... That was enlightening!

This part is purely speculation, ignorant?
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-29-2008, 4:32 AM Reply   
Read 'The Manhattan Declaration'. There are as many scientists that do not believe in global warming, they just do not get the air time.In Europe it is one gigantic excuse to hammer people with new manufactured "green" taxes and anyone brave enough to voice their dissent immediately gets hysterically labelled as some kind of ecology terrorist.Also how did Al Gore become such an authority on this and why are we so gullible?
Old    George Gilbert (geogilbert)      Join Date: May 2007       04-29-2008, 4:57 AM Reply   
One of the best threads on WakeWorld. I am very glad to see that the majority of the folks here are not buying in to the BS.

Keep you trash in a trash can, Recycle what you can, and generally be a good steward of the world in which you live. Then every time some enviro wacko starts preaching about the religion of global warming or the climate crises realize it most likely fills the same void in their heart as God does for many others. And arguing with him/her about the merits of global warming is like arguing with a religious zealot about the existence of their god.
Old    Ifishok™ (ifishok)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-29-2008, 6:55 AM Reply   
The only thing Al Gore wants is your money, and that's it. Carbon Credits make him rich, he flies around the world getting paid to tell you that you need to ride a bike to work. If you really believe the BS about Global Warming, get rid of your boat and truck and stay away from the lakes.
Old    jumbo jeb (jumbojeb)      Join Date: May 2005       04-29-2008, 7:08 AM Reply   
ya, them all sientist is stupit
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-29-2008, 7:39 AM Reply   
Did you know that a 45 minute trip in a leer jet, like Al Gore's puts out more carbon emissions than a family driving SUVs puts out in a year? Bet ya didn't. Al Gore is no friend of the environment, and anyone who listens to his BS is sadly, extremely gullible. He's not helping the environment by flying around the world teaching people about global warming, he's harming it, more than most families ever could or would. If a 45 minute trip in a relatively small jet puts out that much in emissions, imagine what a 10 hour or longer flight does. That man, by himself has probably matched the emissions output of the entire state of Tennessee, where his energy hog of a house is located, for a year of SUV's driving around.
Old    Brandon Stroud (stroh)      Join Date: Apr 2008       04-29-2008, 7:39 AM Reply   
High of 54 today. I guess that's what i get for opening my mouth.
Old    AndY (andy13)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-29-2008, 7:53 AM Reply   
This thread is nasty.

But AYE im down with global warming
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-29-2008, 8:13 AM Reply   
Jeb, that is such an ignorant and horribly thought out response. So you are saying the every scientist is in agreement about global warming?? Or are we just considering the 'smart' scientists that only go along with your viewpoint for the sake of this issue? I'm just curious if you even consider looking at different points in a discussion and consider that maybe other scientists don't agree with the mass hysteria? I am not saying that you are wrong or right, but you are speaking in absolutes which basically makes any point you have to offer invalid from the start.

Skepticism isn't a bad thing, but give me a break with your intellectual democratic elitism. 'cuz anybody that don't agree wit me is a dum republicant
Old    jumbo jeb (jumbojeb)      Join Date: May 2005       04-29-2008, 10:14 AM Reply   
Skepticism is vital to the scientific process.

Ignorance comes from not taking the time to objectively research the facts.

Stupidity is not being able to use enough critical thinking skills to recognize that which blatantly inaccurate and/or illogical.

Politicizing is spreading the blatantly false as common mythology for the mob to digest as truth.

Most of the comments in this thread are blatantly false propaganda, spread by the elite, to the ignorant, to be perpetuated among the ignorant masses as common mythology, in order to create a Mob to serve the political purposes of those elite.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-29-2008, 10:21 AM Reply   
What? That makes no sense! Most of the elite in this country have bought into global warming, thus creating a Mob to serve their political purposes...

And I'm that you didn't seem to find the need to respond to the fact that the man teaching about global warming (politicizing it?) is putting out more carbon emissions than most families ever will.
Old    jumbo jeb (jumbojeb)      Join Date: May 2005       04-29-2008, 10:25 AM Reply   
Is there a logical tie to Al Gores personal behavior and the science of Global Warming?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-29-2008, 10:36 AM Reply   
Yeah there is. Considering the fact that the man who is promoting the theory of Global Warming doesn't behave in a manner consistent with his "belief" in his existence strikes me as a little odd. He seems to be well aware of how this kind of behavior has detrimental effects on the environment that he's trying SO hard to protect. This easily shows that he doesn't genuinely believe in the subject, and is just in it for the money. If the face of global warming behaves in a manner in which it seems as though he doesn't believe in it, it bring up a little problem, namely, he's using a scare tactic to get rich.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-29-2008, 10:49 AM Reply   
As I said earlier, read The Manhattan Declaration on Climate Change and see how many scientists disagree. Why do we have to buy into this? Would Al Gore be selling his brand of claptrap if he had become President? What qualifies him to peddle this, while jetting around the world frightening people with his,"it's too late, we are all doomed ", nonsense.To have given him a Nobel prize is an outrage.
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       04-29-2008, 11:00 AM Reply   
Hey man, don't bash the Global Warming people! It's big industry. It paid for my boat. Really. I'm not kidding. I made money on Ethanol and farming stocks on their way up, and then I cashed in some of those gains and bought my SV211 cash. Where political correctness replaces reason, huge profits can be made!

Here's where the hysteria's heading these days. Since the political right (of all people) decided to push ethanol and other biofuels, now the political left is responding by saying that biofuels are responsible for creating a "global food crisis", and that we need to knock it off. Great. Record profits at ADM and MON are there to fuel the fire. OK, so oil, traditional coal, and nuclear (nucul'r) have been fairly well vilanized at this point... so now that the left is in charge, they're starting to hype solar, wind, natural gas, "clean coal" and, of course, conservation (eco electric cars). Worth noting is that the US has enormous natural gas and coal reserves. So, here are some of my latest ideas (I assume no responsibility for any loses you take).

RRC - Natural Gas and Coal play

WFT - Makes "Directional Drilling" tech to get at those hard to reach oil and gas supplies (google Bakken formation reserve, and you'll see that we have more oil in this country than the politicians would want you to know about)

ATW - helps companies get at the gas (deep sea stuff)

FSLR - "best of bread" of the solars, appears to be sitting in a classic "cup with handle" formation on the chart (risky! high PE)

still looking for an electric eco car play...

And, of course, I wish I could short Algore
Old    Rob Andrus (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-30-2008, 6:31 PM Reply   
Ryan, are you 5 years old calling me names?
At least when I'm speculating I label it as such, not spread it as the absolute truth, which I will force upon all others through taxes. Call me ignorant if you wish but if you don't see the propaganda that you're being fed about global warming then you've got your head in a hole.

Fact: there are more people living in hotter climates than ever before.

Speculation: more people probably buy into global warming because they live in hot climates.

If thats an ignorant statement then please enlighten me from my ignorance.

Jumbo: help me out, which side of the argument are you on? Are you calling the global warming believers the elite or the skeptics?
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-30-2008, 6:43 PM Reply   
haven't read the entire thread so if this has been said......

with whatever weather patterns are happenin....comes the wind
seems like it gets windier here every year

arg
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-01-2008, 5:30 AM Reply   
Name calling is ridiculous on here. And how can you be a tree hugger and enjoy wakeboarding at the same time. no matter how you slice it...you are contributing. If you have a gas engine or electric motor...you are contributing. Al Gore owns the company that sell the carbon Credits....this is going to make him even more of a rich man. How many houses does Al Gore have? What are the sizes of the houses Al Gore lives in? And does Al Gore own coal mines...yes he does. He also owns companies that do Strip Mining..which is bad too. So get your facts straight and do some investigating. The guy is a big FAT JOKE. You want to stop pollution...PROTEST CHINESE MADE PRODUCTS. that includes your O'Brien wakeboard Ryan Siebring. There are a lot of athletes that are protesting the Olympics in Beijing China...why? Not over the stuff going on in Tibet. But over the air quality in Beijing. If you want to make a difference...stop buying their crap. If they want part of the global economy...they should follow the same standards for air quality that we do. I don't like the fact that Ryan is trying to stereotype people who are smart and and investigated the global warming crap and make us out to be hillbillies. Not cool man...not cool.. Im all for Hydrogen fuel. this is the only realistic answer to a pollution free environment. Your hybrid auto's are very bad for the environment...worst than fossil fuel cars. In ten years or less...it is going to be extremely messy getting rid of those big batteries. You can not recycle them. They are made of RARE EARTH metals. RARE is the key word there. There is much less RARE EARTH than fossil fuel. It's going to be extremely bad. HASMAT has to show up to every hybrid auto accident. Before rescue teams can even do anything for the people. THINK...and do some research. I don't throw styrofoam cups out of my window...don't try to throw pot shots like that..not cool. But I am an design engineer for the worlds leading supplier for batteries. I think I can make a statement and support the facts when it comes to that kind of technology. Global Warming has become a cult. Not cool. I think global change is happening..but there is absolutley nothing you and I can do about it. Just like vulcano's and earth quakes (like the recent ones in Illinois). Nothing you can do. Only the Almighty himself has that control. Not Al Gore!
Old    Jeffrey Blanchard (eternalshadow)      Join Date: Nov 2001       05-01-2008, 6:20 AM Reply   
Shifting weather patterns... highly eratic, increased desertification, increases in most observed extremes.

Believe it or not. Is resource reduction and therefore increased sustainability however achieved such a bad thing? Is the idea of living with a smaller human foot print so bad?

Small changes in everyones lives add up to large cumulative impacts.

I'm not going to stop wakeboarding but maybe turning that light switch off or not running my water as long are the little changes that I'm willing to make.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-01-2008, 6:54 AM Reply   
Jeffrey..I think if you really want to make a big impact.......You would stop wakeboarding!(not turning on and off the lights) These 40k plus boats burn through a lot of fuel. Trust me that is what people like Al Gore, Barbera Boxer, Nancy Pelosi and the other croanies want us to do. Meanwhile Al and nancy travel in 1973 model Boeing private Jets...which are the worst polluter jets out there. How are the going to make an impact by traveling in those types of planes. Oh I paid my carbon credits. Well yhea...you own the company that sells carbon credits.. Al. And how is PAYING FOR CARBON CREDITS GOING TO STOP POLLUTION? All I see is that it is paying for up and coming movies about pollution. This is a HYPOCRACY! The rich just don't want you and I to enjoy the fun things in life as they do. That's how I see it. I don't fly a private jet. I have not flown even commercial in the last 6 years. When was the last time you have flown in a plane. Ask yourself that. Planes are much worst than automobiles for fuel consumption. like i said those nice energy light bulbs have mercury in them. Hybrids have huge batteries...both elements are VERY bad for the environment. So WHO REALLY IS DOING BETTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT?
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-01-2008, 6:56 AM Reply   
Cliff, come join the darkside and get a kite! Yesterday was EPIC!!

As far as the planets climate goes, no speculation will ever hold water with the masses, even if the guess is correct. The only true way to know if any change humanity makes could make a difference in climate is to have a control group planet. Unfortunately we do not have one and cannot measure the difference between the results of policy change vs. not changing at all. While change can be measured, it is impossible to differenciate natural change from manmade change.

That being said, it shouldnt take a doomsday theory to encourage us to be as clean and efficient as possible. The fact the we do not have a control planet to test with points out the obvious. This is the only planet we have, so we should be motivated to do what we know is healthy and avoid the uncertainty of what we know is unhealthy. Being lazy in the name of uncertainty is just as bad as attaching false certainty to it.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-01-2008, 7:10 AM Reply   
Jason
are you kiteboarding?
where? on Lavon or Lewisville?

if so....cool
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-01-2008, 7:43 AM Reply   
No, you guys have it all wrong. There is something you can do about it. You can profit from it!
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-01-2008, 8:53 AM Reply   
Jeffrey said:
Is the idea of living with a smaller human foot print so bad?

I know when I walk in the sand..my footprint size is the same as it was last year and the year before that. So the answer to your question is...you can not change the size of your footprint. Only God has that control!
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-01-2008, 9:33 AM Reply   
Yes, I semi-retired from wakeboarding to kiteboard full time in 2002 (in the recreational sense, I was no pro). I only get behind a boat once a year or so just to make sure I still got it.

On a south wind, I ride Hubbard or Grapevine after work during the week. On weekends, Ray Roberts is epic on southwind days, just too far for after work runs. On north wind days, Im on Lewisville or Grapevine.

Im a guy who wakeboarded 5 times a week for a decade. Love to be on my board. However, once I tried kiteboarding, I was addicted unlike anything else. It really is the next level. The entire lake is your skatepark. And with gas going the way it is, having an epic session throwing all your favorite tricks without spending a penny in gas just feels so right! I feel like Im getting away with something!
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-01-2008, 12:24 PM Reply   
jason...not everyone has that luxury of going somewhere where there is a strong air current to kiteboard on. For myself I would spend as much in gas with my sipper 4 cylinder car to get to an area to kiteboard as i would have to go to a local lake to wakeboard. So not everyone is geographically privileged.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-01-2008, 12:27 PM Reply   
Can you not kiteboard where you wakeboard?
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-01-2008, 12:55 PM Reply   
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, but with kiteboarding.

1)you can't bring a cooler of cold beer with you on the water

2)you can't bring your dogs with you on the water

3)you can't bring your wife or friends with you on the water

4)you can't play your stereo (I guess maybe a waterproof ipod or something though)

5) you can't surf behind the boat

6) you can't break out the wakeskate to mess around after you're tired

7) you can't pull kids on the tube

8) you have no horn to honk at the dangerous jetskiers (or any protection from them)

It does look fun though... just not really a viable replacement for the wakeboarding/boating experience... more like something completely different. In fact, it looks like it'd be the most fun in surf, where you wouldn't really have a boat there anyway.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-01-2008, 1:37 PM Reply   
Tim, you should go out to the local spot and check it out. I think you would be surprised. We are so used to the confines of a boat and a secluded strip of water that these questions are often asked. Basically when you go kiteboarding, you are launching from a lake park and riding along the shoreline of the lake. the things one would do sitting in a crampped boat, are now done on the shore, just a few yards from where you are riding. So:

1. Cooler is with you for sure.

2. Dog is loving life. We have a spot we ride that is leashless, and the dogs LOVE it when you carve around close to shore as they come out into the water and chase you and jump around. If not they are on their leash on a long staked line doing the same thing.

3. My wife rides, so she is usually out riding before I am. However, if she isnt riding, she is on the shore, watchnig me ride, playing with the dogs, grillin' something, or in a lounger reading a book. Basically the same thing any lakepark visitors do except now there is a guy blowing by on a wakeboard every few seconds.

4. true, no boat stereo, but your right, alot of guys where those players, and people on shore tend to bring a little stereo if they want music.

5. true, no surfing behind the boat, but when it gets windy as you move offshore there are some BIG swells out there. I spent all day yesterday looking at 6ft faces on Lake Ray Hubbard. So wild to depower the kite and use only the swell power to push you as you carve around on it.

6. On the contrary, the skate is blowing up in kiteboarding. I suck at it, but some of those guys are awesome! Really fun in shallow water, almost like riding a skateboard in a skatepark. In 6" of water you can try all your kick trix and if you miss it, you just land on your feet and walk back to your board and hop on it again. Much more reps than behind a boat since you dont have to wait to be picked up.

7. Yes, I do not recommend a tube with the kite.

8. Correct no horn...unless you wanna tuck on of those aircans in your shorts, lol.

Once you understand the kite, you realize that its basically just an engine. Its fun in the surf, in the lake, on the snow, with a buggy, with a mountainboard, on a skateboard, on a wakeskate, on a surfboard, or a kayak. Anything you can think of that needs a powersource for motion, a kite can do it.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-01-2008, 1:42 PM Reply   
Not an all out replacement for family boat time, but a good thing to know how to do to suppliment the riding time you will lose in the gas crunch.
Old    Tim (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-01-2008, 2:18 PM Reply   
See, now you've got me wanting to switch sports! Anyone want to buy a Nautique on the cheap? Just kidding.

I do want to learn kiteboarding, actually. But I also have more hobbies than I can keep track of at this point... makes for a cluttered garage.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-01-2008, 3:32 PM Reply   
dude, you should see my trainwreck of a garage.

For sure give it a shot. But when you do, give it a good six months. Similar to wakeboarding, that first couple of months can be frustrating, but once you get past the initial learning curve its awesome.

And dont "switch" just add it to the things you can do on the lake. I will admit, that once I got into kiteboarding, my boat did get put up for sale. My wife and I still love boating and hope to buy another one when we have kids who want to ride (first one arrives in Sept!!).

(Message edited by jason_ssr on May 01, 2008)
Old    Rob Andrus (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-01-2008, 4:03 PM Reply   
SNOWED AGAIN TODAY..........
Old    Ryan Siebring (lostkgb78)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-01-2008, 4:22 PM Reply   
Scott Firman Quote - "Name calling is ridiculous on here"

More Scott Firman Quotes...

"Thanks Al Whore..."
"Big Dumb @$$ Jerk."
"..you freak!"
"I am just tired of the ignorance when it comes to these topics."
"how can you be a tree hugger and enjoy wakeboarding at the same time"

Your right Scott, name calling is ridiculous! I'm glad you set a good example.

Scott Firman quote "that includes your O'Brien wakeboard Ryan Siebring."
Correction- LF made in Dubai

Scott Firman quote "I don't like the fact that Ryan is trying to stereotype people who are smart and and investigated the global warming crap and make us out to be hillbillies."
Correction- I didn't make that stereotype but you just did.

Scott Firman quote - "Your hybrid auto's are very bad for the environment...worst than fossil fuel cars. In ten years or less...it is going to be extremely messy getting rid of those big batteries. You can not recycle them."
Correction - "Hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled.

To add to this, They are the same batteries that are in our cell phones. Do you suggest we stop using these "Bio hazards" as well?

Scott Firman quote - "I have not flown even commercial in the last 6 years. When was the last time you have flown in a plane. Ask yourself that. Planes are much worst than automobiles for fuel consumption."

Correction - A plane like a Boeing 747 uses approximately 1 gallon of fuel (about 4 liters) every second. Over the course of a 10-hour flight, it might burn 36,000 gallons (150,000 liters). According to Boeing's Web site, the 747 burns approximately 5 gallons of fuel per mile (12 liters per kilometer).

This sounds like a tremendously poor miles-per-gallon rating! But consider that a 747 can carry as many as 568 people. Let's call it 500 people to take into account the fact that not all seats on most flights are occupied. A 747 is transporting 500 people 1 mile using 5 gallons of fuel. That means the plane is burning 0.01 gallons per person per mile. In other words, the plane is getting 100 miles per gallon per person! The typical car gets about 25 miles per gallon, so the 747 is much better than a car carrying one person, and compares favorably even if there are four people in the car. Not bad when you consider that the 747 is flying at 550 miles per hour (900 km/h)


I'm not on here to defend politicians. I could give a rats @ss about Gore. I'm the left to Firmans right... It's a debate and a discussion. I see Firmans statements as blatant propaganda just as he probably views mine.

I'm not a tree hugger and I'm not a right wing fanatic for that matter.

I'm a realist. I believe in cause and effect... Simple math. Every thing we do has an effect whether its good or bad. I'm a firm believer that the earth has natural cycles. I'm also a firm believer that we are accelerating these cycles quicker than the earth can adapt. It's not speculation... It's scientific fact.

If I offended anyone with the ignorant questions, I apologies. I do love a good CIVIL debate though so bring it on!
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-02-2008, 5:12 AM Reply   
glad you caught the irony on the names.....I did it on purpose. Rayn..private jets don't mean 500+ people traveling at the same time. Al Gore does not have 500 people on his plane and neither does Nancy Pelosi, George Bush etc. etc. etc. Your profile says you ride a O'Brien wakeboard. Jason G stated he wants us to go kiteboarding..his profile has a Ferrari posted on it. Ryan..my company makes those batteries for Toyota....I am telling you, that is false on the recycling part. the casing is the only thing salvagable in the end. Your right about the batteries being the same as your cell phones...and you know..they are bad too. I am all for alternative fuels. I work in the auto industry on research and design. The best solution for the environment is to go Hydrogen. But when you have the chinese buying big SUV and Big cars and highering drivers to take them places. Showing all disregard for the environment with pollution from their factories. Everyone should do their part..not Just the US and a few others. I don't see that..because we want stuff and we want it cheap. I view this like when we did not drill off the coast of florida near Miami. EPA and other Green Peace type groups said we couldn't. We didn't...9 miles off the coast....Cuba drill the same spot instead. Who would you trust to drill and do a good and low impact safe job. USA or Cuba? You were painting a picture of people : Should I Drive down the freeway in my H2, windows down, a/c cranking, running hybrids off the road, drinking out of my styrofoam cup, then throw it out the window, listening to Bill O'reailly and giving anyone that looks like a muslim dirty looks cause they probably be a terrorist

I'll next see Al Gore driving and pull up next to him, flip him the bird (How dare he try to help mankind and the environment)

After that, I think I'll go home to my 7 bedroom home that my wife and I live alone in, beat my wife, drink an american bear and then get on WW to spread propaganda...

What did you think you were doing when you made a statement like that?

If Al gore is so right...then why is the Weather Channel going after him in court to force a debate that he would not accept in the first place. NASA Scientist are now going after his claims as well. This is the guy who said he invented the internet. Why would you believe him about global warming? There was a global cooling hysteria in the early 70's..the next "Ice Age" What happened to that? This is a money grab. Al wants more money selling carbon credits. Auto industry gets to sell you on small cars for the price of a truck 4 years ago. GREEN GREEN GREEN GREEN.....I hear it everyday at work. It's to generate more money for the rich. And it's working. I am mad because I am selling my boat this year because the cost of fuel. Selling my travel trailer. My Truck that pulled it. Call me a redneck or what you will...but when I bought that stuff 5 years ago. I had one thing in mind......to have fun with my family and friends. Now I get to go kiteboarding alone while my family watches from shore. Drive my 4 cylinder praying that I dont get into an accident (fatality's are much higher) And meanwhile.. Al Gore enjoys his mulitple homes, continues his strip mining, Flies with his small staff on his plane made for 500 people. My Insurance rates will skyrocket when I move to a Toyota Prius with the possiblity of an auto accidnet that HASMAT has to come out for the clean up. We had one go off the ramp this winter in Michigan..closed the ramp for 6 hours.....HASMAT on the scene. Sounds like the world I always dreamed about. Meanwhile the Chinese are putting out pollution that surpasses the US 40's Industrial Revolutionary period and no one gives a crap about that...They just buy into it by buying their products. Here is an unpopular view...How about driving slower on the roads...if everyone drove 65mph again on the expressway...think about how much less fuel we would use. I am carpooling with 4 other people everyday to and from work. So I am doing my part...but this stuff they want us to do...is way to extreme. This is my last post...Peace!
Old    Ryan Siebring (lostkgb78)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-02-2008, 10:59 AM Reply   
Scott, I commend the passion you have on this subject and like the entire nation, we're all in this pinch together.

I'll state it again, I don't care about Gore! I care about my earth. I believed in pollution and climate change long before Gore.

I think global warming has been misnamed... It should be global climate change. Some places are getting hotter while other places are getting colder. The earth will always try and balance itself.

The statement about driving down the highway was to paint a picture that ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.

If it's true that these batteries aren't recyclable, then I would assume someone needs to bring a law suit against them for false advertising. I'm not a big fan of being feed misinformation from either side.

Most of us know hydrogen is the best alternative. We can have all our cars running off it today. The technologies there. You can convert any combustion engine to hydrogen and only need minimal lubricating oils. Unfortunately, big oil and government have us by the b@lls.

I have a boat with twin outboards and I'm paying $4.20/gallon in Hawaii. We actually have the record right now for the highest fuel in the nation. And what's the deal with diesel? It's $4.69/gallon here. Less refined yet cost more than premium???

I'm off this one to Scott. I appreciate your good spirit and definitely learned a lot as well.

peace.... and granola
Old    Rob Andrus (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-02-2008, 12:45 PM Reply   
Ryan, the problem is that the current method for discussing our impact on our environment resorts to scare tactics and every time there is a big storm, a hot day, a drought, a blizzard etc they claim it is because of global warming, or now trying to call it climate change. Climate change is vague enough to encompass all weather events. We then report these events with hysteria and chicken little like "the sky is falling" conclusions about how soon we're all going to die. Then pass legislation based upon the hysteria, usually resulting in higher prices for gas, food, business etc. While the legislation mostly ends up having zero effect upon the environment. Yes there are some big polluters ie steel mills and we should do our best to keep the planet clean, water clean, animals alive, but when the environmentalists try to classify polar bears as an endangered species, because of global warming as a tool to control.....not debate the issue, it really ends up restricting our freedom. Usually when people try to forcibly take away your freedom you don't get that nice of a reaction.


Lastly, about hydrogen technology and the automakers....Automakers, particularly American automakers have been loosing billions for years, while the oil companies continue to make record profits, if they have the technology to make a car that would be better than gas and make it profitably, but choose not to do it then they deserve to go bankrupt. I don't think they can do it yet or they would.

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