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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through April 09, 2008

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Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-03-2008, 8:11 AM Reply   
most of you have probably heard that starting January 08 the motor companies must have catalatic converters on their motors. the motor companies are still alloud to send out motors without CC's that they had already built prior to Jan 08. after they run out, of all the motors must have them on them. its going to jump the prices of the boats up about 2 grand from what i've heard.(i haven't seen any price sheets but thats just what i've heard). i know that Marine Power has a good amount in stock right now so that Tige might not be affected till 09 or at least late 08. With the price increase of them would it drive you toward finding a boat without a CC to save the money. or will you all pay up and go with ordering a new boat with all the options that you want.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-03-2008, 8:17 AM Reply   
I purchased on without the CC... CA will or has (IDK) pass(ed) smogging on boats eventually. :-(
Old    Nick (bird_dog0347)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-03-2008, 8:20 AM Reply   
I love that my boat has the cats... no more headache after surfing. Worth every penny.
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-03-2008, 8:26 AM Reply   
David- you can still buy boats without them. its just once the companies run out of the non CC motors every boat beyond that point will have them.
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-03-2008, 8:37 AM Reply   
So people are buying 2008 boats with 2007 engines? eek. I'm glad Indmar jumped on that early.

Cats all the way!!!

(Message edited by Jon A on April 03, 2008)
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-03-2008, 10:22 AM Reply   
no they aren't 07 motors. the motor companies put the 08 motors in production a while before we were even in 08. and i'm pretty sure that there isn't a single different part between the 07 and 08's.
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-03-2008, 7:33 PM Reply   
Well since it says that the 2008's must have the cats, I'd say the current engines aren't true 2008's.
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-03-2008, 9:45 PM Reply   
Jon i don't think you really understand. the 2008 boats, motors, cars, dirtbikes, whatever you want, were put into production and released back in late Augaust early September of 07. if marine power were able to make, lets say 4000 motors from September 07 to to January 08 they're still considered a 2008 motor. I guess you would consider my 07 RZ2 that i recieved in Augaust of 06, a 2006 model. do you get what i'm saying.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       04-03-2008, 10:24 PM Reply   
My 2006 boat has a Mercruiser that was manufactured in 2005.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-04-2008, 6:07 AM Reply   
Merc no longer has "Model years" for engines
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-04-2008, 7:06 AM Reply   
I see what you are saying. I totally understand that 2008 model boats were being produced in say July or August of 2007. I'm just saying that if there is a requirement starting January 2008, then that engine better have that requirement on it. If not, I personally would consider it an old engine.
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-04-2008, 7:13 AM Reply   
The Cat law is not nation wide. Indmar jumped ahead on some of their models. They have an emissions credit allowing them to delay having cats on all models this year.
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-04-2008, 8:21 AM Reply   
Jon the only requirement for January 08 was that no more motors could be made without them and all the motors that were made without them could still be used. and its not really the actual motor. its the exhaust manifolds that will have the CC on then(atleast thats how it is Merc.) its basically just a spacer on exhaust manifold and the raiser. if for some reason you wanted to take the CC off it would be very easy to do.
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-04-2008, 8:38 AM Reply   
Ryan,

I understand it in a different way. My understanding is that a new boat cannot be SOLD in California after 1-1-08 without a CC on it unless the engine was built before 1-1-08. If my boat was built after 1-1-08 it better meet requirements for 1-1-08, engine and all. Just my personal view. I understand companies are getting around this by putting "old" engines in their boats. Again, in my opinion, a 2007 model engine.

I'm glad Indmar jumped on it early. 2008 models built in 2007 already had 2008 requirements on it. Heck, for that matter, some 2007 models built in 2006 met 2008 requirements.

(Message edited by Jon A on April 04, 2008)
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-04-2008, 10:46 AM Reply   
Joe

"These regulations will require gasoline engines manufactured after 1 Jan 2008 to be equipped with catalytic emission technology."

http://powerboat.about.com/b/2007/03/13/2008-brings-more-regulations-for-california-boaters.htm

http://www.ibinews.com/ibinews/newsdesk/20070213114416ibinews.html

}

(Message edited by krbaugh on April 04, 2008)
Old    KevinL (kevin_lsv23)      Join Date: Oct 2006       04-05-2008, 12:27 PM Reply   
I will never have a boat without Cats. No stink!
Old    J Whelan (kneeboarder8806)      Join Date: Jan 2006       04-05-2008, 2:39 PM Reply   
Everybody here thinks that cats are a bad thing but will anybody ever really notice? I dont think anybody will notice unless you have to replace the exhaust if it gets cracked or something and nobody ever goes and puts aftermarket exhaust on their wakeboats.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-05-2008, 4:37 PM Reply   
I don't think they are a bad thing just another 2 grand on the price of the boat. After a while they just seem way to expensive. IF I had not been buying and selling boats since the 80's there is no way I could have afforded a 60K boat
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-05-2008, 5:19 PM Reply   
Indmar only charges $1495 in 2008. There is talk that it will be standard nationwide for 2009 and not even be an option.
Old    Peter Uehlin (peter19u)      Join Date: Oct 2006       04-05-2008, 5:23 PM Reply   
can you retrofit cats on a 340 Monsoon engine
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-06-2008, 2:55 AM Reply   
you can basically put them on any motor. its just a spacer that goes between the exhaust manifold and the raiser.
Old    Kevin (deltaboy)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-06-2008, 8:30 AM Reply   
Take a peek at the PCM engines. Not that easy Ryan. Entire exhaust system is different and they use this massive chamber to burn out the C0. If the motor is allready in a tight spot it will be difficult to get that stuff to fit.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-06-2008, 8:36 AM Reply   
oops
didn't see this thread when I posted the "bummer" thread

here is an email response that I got from Idmar

"I am happy to hear you love your Hammerhead ... it is my favorite
engine of all the engines we build.

It would be pretty impractical to convert your engine to the ETX CAT
system. Of course the manifolds and exhaust outlets would have to
change but you would also have to change the engine wiring harness and

the computer that runs the engine. There are also some additional
sensors and some other components that would need to be added to the
engine. Another major problem would be that the 2008 vintage computer
that runs the engine is not compatible with the 2007 computer in your
boat that runs the dashboard etc. By the time you would get it all to
work you would have a significant amount of time and money invested
that I am not sure would be worth the
hassle."

Larry Engelbert
IndmarService


Quoting Cliff

> Hello
> I have a 2007 Malibu VLX with the HammerHead engine.
> First off, I would like to thank You guys....I love the engine!
> However, the Etx-Cat system was not available on the HammerHead when

> I bought mine.
> Is it possible to add it on now?
> I am pretty handy with a wrench, or my dealer at Waterski America
> would be glad to help.
> Is it just a matter of changing manifolds, or is the engine brain
> and wiring harness different?
> would I need to modify the engine compartment?
> thanks for the help
> Cliff
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-06-2008, 8:42 AM Reply   
There is way more difference than "the exhaust manifold and the raiser" The computer program is different plus they use oxygen sensors. Plus the cat equiped mercs are fly by wire and shift by wire. just mention a few things
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-06-2008, 9:55 AM Reply   
i dont know how the cats are going to hold up its to early to tell. quite frankly they scare me in a boat. you ever seen car with a stuck fuel injector or bad timming flood a cat with fuel and get up to over 1500 degrees and start melting stuff and catching it on fire. i have and the thought of this on a boat concerns me VERY much. i will not be buying any boat with a cat. convt. untill they have a few years on them and make sure they are not going to have issues.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-06-2008, 11:02 AM Reply   
Starting on the 2008 model years, Indmar is putting a temp sensor right on top of the cat. It is there to put engine in safe mode if it over heats.
Old    Fb (fbroen)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-06-2008, 1:54 PM Reply   
Is this the temp sensor?

Upload
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-06-2008, 3:01 PM Reply   
Yea thats it! It seems to me, Larry told us that this has never been done before but they felt it was a better safe than sorry sentiment.
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-06-2008, 3:24 PM Reply   
I've logged over 500 hours on CAT engines and haven't had a single CAT related problem yet.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-06-2008, 4:01 PM Reply   
im not saying they cant work and be a good thing. but it does concern me the potential hazard that they can be for sure.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-06-2008, 4:40 PM Reply   
Do you see the kink in the exhaust hose? This is a bad thing it
Will cause heat build up I am VERY surprised that The boat manufacture sent this boat out. They are supposed to be using hose that will not kink
Upload
Old    Fb (fbroen)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-06-2008, 5:18 PM Reply   
You mean smoking hose hot -- see smoke by hose clamps.

Smokes every time engine is run at 3000 rpm or above for any period of time. Kink wasn't actually there from beginning -- developed after running for a bit and smelling burnt rubber.

7 hrs on engine. Heat seems a bit excessive to me, but all feedback i have so far from dealer and MC customer service is that the hoses will run really hot. I wonder how hot is too hot...

All other circulating hoses are normal, engine temp normal, no kinks on other hoses anywhere, even exhaust hose is nice and cool about 8 inches down from top.

Upload
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-06-2008, 5:23 PM Reply   
Jon - 500 hours - Im not worthy

FB - I agree with Kevin Bough you should take that back. Looks like it has a twist & kink.

Kevin - Sometimes we have to accept advances. I grew up on the slalom course in the 70's and that what I heard about Accu Ski and Perfect Pass that someone was gonna die because "the computer" was driving. In the 80's & 90s - fuel rail pressure is too high for Fuel Injection on a boat and we will all blow up. Until you see it splashed on front page of Wakeworld, no worries. BTW - Just sold my 07 and get my 08 this week, Ill never own a boat without it.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-06-2008, 5:29 PM Reply   
My next boat will have it.....but then agian it wont be long they will all have it.

I would take it to the dealer and ask why there is a kink in the hose it will cuase back preasure nad heat

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