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Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-24-2008, 12:18 AM Reply   
Heard a rumor MC and Copes had a parting of the waters?
Old    Michael (wannabewakeboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2007       03-24-2008, 12:22 AM Reply   
I thought I heard somthing about Penske Buying them out about a year ago.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-24-2008, 12:41 AM Reply   
I have heard the same from some reputable sources....this may be the final nail in the Cope coffin.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-24-2008, 1:30 AM Reply   
Crazy. Copes will die without one of MC/CC/BU.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-24-2008, 3:10 AM Reply   
i heard this too.
Old    Who Cares (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       03-24-2008, 8:43 AM Reply   
It`s true cope has lost MC.
Old    Justin Nead (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-24-2008, 10:18 AM Reply   
They have business together a long time. I find this one a little hard to believe until it is public. Where is this info coming from?
Old    Peter T (deltawake)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-24-2008, 10:30 AM Reply   
Source? What is the ongoing relationship with Malibu/ Ultimate?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-24-2008, 10:35 AM Reply   
Bummer
Old    Who Cares (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       03-24-2008, 11:07 AM Reply   
I cant drop names but I herd it from a source that has never given me bad info and is very well conected in the retail side of things.
Old    Justin Nead (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-24-2008, 11:09 AM Reply   
so would this include all their stores or just one or two?
Old    Brad Smith (xstar110)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-24-2008, 12:22 PM Reply   
Copes didn't lose Mastercraft, it was decided between both parties that they would no longer be selling mastercraft in their stores.
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-24-2008, 12:50 PM Reply   
wow, this should be great for nor cal mc business.
Old    Andy Parsons (sanddragon2004)      Join Date: Jul 2005       03-24-2008, 1:04 PM Reply   
what is cope going to sell if they dont sell mc?

dont they sell bu n cent through ultimate?
Old    Brad Smith (xstar110)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-24-2008, 1:20 PM Reply   
I pretty sure their bringing in malibu to replace mastercraft.
Old    GT (ghburner)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-24-2008, 1:26 PM Reply   
I work in the industry, and it is true. They are holding on to Malibu and will be adding them to their locations where Mastercraft will be leaving.
Old    Justin Nead (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-24-2008, 1:41 PM Reply   
so if you want a mastercraft in the sacramento, ca area, where do you go?
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       03-24-2008, 1:54 PM Reply   
Justin.... The guys at NorCal Master Craft will be glad to help. It's a bit of a haul, but their customer service is outstanding. They'll definitely work with you in any way possible.
Old    WaKe_sCuLpTeR (tsbs)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-24-2008, 1:56 PM Reply   
I've heard from somebody that knows nobody, but was told by anybody that Cope's is screwed. Wow, couldn't have happenend to a nicer group of owners.

I just hope they get their suppliers paid off before they file chapter 11.
Old    Who Cares (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       03-24-2008, 3:04 PM Reply   
cope cant bring malibu into all of it locals as there are malibu dealers in the area. what are they going to do for example in western washington theres bakes a malibu dealer and two blks down the street theres cope. how is malibu going to handel that?
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-24-2008, 3:21 PM Reply   
Copes and Ultimate Watersports are the SAME!!!!
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-24-2008, 3:22 PM Reply   
Plus Malibu won't let them do that liljohn. You are right to recognize that issue.
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-24-2008, 3:22 PM Reply   
dont they still own ultimate water-sports? is ultimate going to be ok? some of those dealer ships have malibu and master-craft.
Old    K.B.C.            03-24-2008, 4:03 PM Reply   
anybody know what happens in this situation if you bought an MC from them?

Where do you now take it for warranty and maintanance issues?
Old    WaKe_sCuLpTeR (tsbs)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-24-2008, 4:04 PM Reply   
They are one and the same. Ultimate Watersports is Copes pro-shop. They will continue to deal with Malibu except where they are limited by proximity. They will be losing the Master Craft line. Word is Copes/Ultimate is having financial difficulties. It's all heresy right now, but this doesn't help their outlook. It's going to be a tight year in the watersports industry. Those who take good care of their customers are going to be the survivors.

That will leave certain regions underexposed to Master Craft until other dealers pick up the pieces. Some regions will be less affected than others. The Bay Area, for example, has Nor Cal Master Craft in Pleasanton who has been covering most of the areas Master Craft sales for the last 20 years.

Areas like Sacramento will be greater affected, but with shops like River Boat marine on the Sac end of the Delta it wont be that big of a deal.
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-24-2008, 4:24 PM Reply   
^^^^ could not have said it better myself.
Old    Brad Smith (xstar110)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-24-2008, 5:48 PM Reply   
Like I said before Copes isn't losing Mastercraft it was a mutual seperation, Mastercraft is pricing themselves out of the market, not a lot of people can afford $90,000 boats!
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-24-2008, 6:17 PM Reply   
If you look at Cope's website it is unbeleivable to note how many new 07's they still have. I have never been there, but can't imagine a place that maintains that kind of overhead. I am sure they told MC that they cannot take any more new boats and MC tried to leverage some on them...then you see what happened.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-24-2008, 6:26 PM Reply   
There will be some screamin' deals on 07 MC product after they get taken away from Cope and spread out to the other dealers...look for some very attractive pricing from dealers who are willing to take some of these old boats and try to retail them.......
Old    Tim B (nvboarder)      Join Date: Nov 2005       03-24-2008, 7:37 PM Reply   
Well I live in Reno, Nv and their are two different store fronts. Cope's sale MC and Premier sales Malibu's both are owned by Ultimate water sports. I have heard that they may close one of the shops. Because of the times, poor housing market, high unemployment rate, etc. So if this goes through it will be really tuff to get a MC in Reno. So here is my real question I have heard that MC and Malibu's are not allowed to be sold under the same roof. True or False? If true which company makes that demand MC or BU? Just curious.
Old    Chris C (cboom12)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-24-2008, 7:39 PM Reply   
to answer the question about having malibu at certain locations from what I hear copes is selling/closing 5 stores the washington location in question being one of them. And just a small correction ultimate watersports is not copes pro shop, that would be boarders paradise. Ultimate is their malibu counter part.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-24-2008, 8:01 PM Reply   
would you buy a used MC from private seller out of warranty in washington after hearing this news?
Old    seabass (baschralper)      Join Date: Dec 2001       03-24-2008, 9:07 PM Reply   
rumors are crazy around here.

I heard from my sister's uncle's brother's aunt's mother in law that cope's was hit with a car bomb....


this place is like a damn tupperware party sometimes. Someone owes me some money....a few others and I had a bet on how long it would take for this drama to show up on here....you guys are about 4 days ahead of schedule.

(Message edited by baschralper on March 24, 2008)
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-24-2008, 9:12 PM Reply   
sea bass. so whats happening? is everything ok?
Old    seabass (baschralper)      Join Date: Dec 2001       03-24-2008, 9:25 PM Reply   
ponte, maybe someone on here should tell me....

people that aren't involved seem to know more than people that are, as usual 'round here....quite comical actually.

(Message edited by baschralper on March 24, 2008)
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-24-2008, 9:33 PM Reply   
i dont know either man. a friend of mine just took over the service manager job up here in rohnert park. i asked him and he didn't hear anything. i guess rumors are just rumors.
Old    seabass (baschralper)      Join Date: Dec 2001       03-24-2008, 9:56 PM Reply   
see, that's the thing....

there's all kinds of speculation going on here, and no fact. Hell, I don't even know the real deal, if that has any weight to it....

Even your bro works for UWS, and doesn't know a thing about what's going on. Nor does anyone else in this thread. Yet, there seems to be a lot of "I heard" posts going on....

I'm sure in due time, things will be known, but till then, just keep in mind, the people that should know....don't. So, that being said, how can anyone on here know more than them?

They don't, and neither do I....
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-25-2008, 8:42 AM Reply   
I'm hearing from way to many industry people about this subject for it to be a rumor.

You can expect to see a lot more on this subject in the coming weeks.

I don't know why you would make a "mutual decision" to drop Mastercraft. Go ask Norcal Mastercraft if they are having problems moving units.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       03-25-2008, 9:27 AM Reply   
Because this isn't a rumor. It really just happened.

Seabass is referring to all the little details surrounding what happened. There are few that actually know them, and for every person that does know, there are probably 5 that are speculating, a few more that are trying to connect the dots based on the WW rumor mill, and a handful more that just read about it that wish they had a clue. And as far as the people that DO know, I'm not sure that they're really dying to post the information up on WW anyways. But I'm sure more information will slowly creep it's way over on to WW somehow.

And NC MC may be doing alright, but let's not forget about what happened to your beloved Ski World. And they had been in business how long?
Old    boardco13            03-25-2008, 9:30 AM Reply   
Ok guys, I may be able to clear up a few things with the idea that Copes is losing MC. Apparently, the situation is that MC wants to change over all of their dealerships nationwide to MC exclusive dealerships (i.e. no Malibu, no Centurion, no Chapparal, no Cobalt, no Alumicraft, etc.). Basically, MC wants Copes to take the 6 or so dealerships that sell MC and turn them into 12 dealerships or whatever (6 that sell MC and 6 that sell everything else).

Apparently nothing is finalized and they are still working things out, but Copes is unwilling and probably unable to open more stores right now, especially with the California boat market the way it is. It's not that Copes is having financial troubles, it's just that it makes no financial sense to agree to what MC wants them to do. I'm not 100% certain of the specifics, but that information comes from a very reliable source.

Either way you break it down - it looks like Copes is going to be parting ways with MC.
Old    calix2rider (dmontandon)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-25-2008, 9:51 AM Reply   
If it werent for the economy.. A good time to open a new dealership(s) on the west coast.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-25-2008, 9:56 AM Reply   
Wow, that seems like a very unfair and unrealistic policy by MC.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-25-2008, 10:06 AM Reply   
^^^^

I think Texas MC is still selling Chaps
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-25-2008, 10:11 AM Reply   
Thanks for clearing it all up mitch.
Old    seabass (baschralper)      Join Date: Dec 2001       03-25-2008, 10:21 AM Reply   
J-Rod, I was in NO WAY denying the fact that this is happening.
Like scott_a said in his post, I was more talking about the fact that there is a lot of rumor floating around this whole ordeal, and nobody...including the people that work for Cope/UWS know all of the inside facts.
To the point, nobody knows whats really going on except for MC, Bob and Frank Cope.

Just like you said, I'm sure there will be a lot more about this subject in the next few weeks, no doubt.
I'm really suprised how quickly this made it up on here. Like I said before, you guys were about 4 days to early.
Old    WaKe_sCuLpTeR (tsbs)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-25-2008, 11:21 AM Reply   
Hmmmm, strange.... Wasn't it just announced that Greg Nelson (Cope's guru extraordinare) just left to venture out on his own. This is all just too coincidental if Cope's really isn't in trouble.

Anyway, just more fuel to stoke the burning rumor mill fire.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       03-25-2008, 11:30 AM Reply   
Nowhere did he say anything about leaving Cope's.
Old    Myke D (breakz77)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-25-2008, 11:37 AM Reply   
Nelson has been working on his project for a long time, way before this ever came about
Old    Antbug (antbug)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-25-2008, 1:10 PM Reply   
ok here is the real scoop......

MC has priced them self out of this new market we are in. The truth is, Centurion boats are the way of the future and will be sold at all Cope's locations. They are coming out with a pickle fork boat that is going to change everything! And it's priced only at $49,999.99 and it's a hybrid! NOW WHAT!?!

Ok so you now all know the real deal....let it be.
Old    Myke D (breakz77)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-25-2008, 1:19 PM Reply   
The new hybrid will also have the available option called the Delta package. It will actually run on Delta water!
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       03-25-2008, 1:22 PM Reply   
Only $50k for a Centurion? Wow, just in 2002 you could get a Malibu VLX loaded with Boss equipment for that much out the door with extended warranty. We are now in a housing market that is almost pre 2002 price wise. I think boat prices are going to have to come back to earth especially with gas, food and everything moving up and up well past the 2002 prices.
Old    Antbug (antbug)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-25-2008, 2:02 PM Reply   
What are you kidding Myke? I didn't hear about that. That is so sick. OMG this new boat is going to change everything forsure!
Old    Justin Nead (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-25-2008, 2:17 PM Reply   
and it does it all without any ballast...right
Old    Myke D (breakz77)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-25-2008, 2:20 PM Reply   
Yea Ant.. I thought you where going to the training yesterday. It was pretty sweet. You would be amazed of the stuff in the water the engine runs off of.

Oh there will be a Team ballast option as well
Old    WaKe_sCuLpTeR (tsbs)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-25-2008, 2:43 PM Reply   
Centurions are HOT!
Old    rick ator (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-25-2008, 5:54 PM Reply   
hell up Myke are you kidding me a hybrid. When can i trade the fourwinns in?
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-26-2008, 4:27 PM Reply   
Brad Smith your full of crap. MC is selling plenty of boats my friend.
Old    Rick Powers (rickyp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-26-2008, 4:35 PM Reply   
Why is it that so many Mastercraft owners get so butt hurt when people post anything remotely critical to Mastercraft? It's as if they are back there making the boats themselves.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-26-2008, 4:50 PM Reply   
Oooooooh yeah! It's only Mastercraft owners.

Actually Rick, the people you see getting butt hurt are Cope's employees or customers. It's all good. Many of them are my friends. Except for Scott A. I definitely like him less.
Old    rick ator (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-26-2008, 5:03 PM Reply   
I actually like the ultimate Watersports in livermore they seem to be the exception to the rule of Cope. Super nice, always helping out. My next boat will definately be a Bu from them. :-)
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-26-2008, 5:25 PM Reply   
Hybrid boat??? Wow, if you guys only knew what I knew.
Old    rick ator (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-26-2008, 5:26 PM Reply   
ryan do tell LOL. how about a hydrogen powered boat that used lake water !!!!
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       03-26-2008, 5:26 PM Reply   
Actually, I can't think of any Cope's employees that post here. The bulk of us (all of us?) work on the Malibu side of things. So no, I don't think you're seeing a bunch of irritated Cope's salesmen trying to stroke their own product. They leave that up to TK.
Old    seabass (baschralper)      Join Date: Dec 2001       03-26-2008, 5:26 PM Reply   
Flux Capacitors FTW!!
Old    Chris C (cboom12)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-27-2008, 1:20 AM Reply   
Rocklin show room is now full of malibus. Just FYI.
Old    Dave Gast (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-27-2008, 6:48 AM Reply   
Mitch mann,
The local MC dealer here is doing well in KY but they just picked up Caravelle boats ans they sell allumacraft too. It will be interesting to see what happens with them if mc tries to make them stop selling those. I would think that it would not be a problem for them to sell these brands be it that they are not your typical competition for MC
Old    summertime (ride900)      Join Date: May 2007       03-27-2008, 9:24 AM Reply   
Not to stir the pot but its kinda nice to see Copes getting pushed around a bit.
Old    Mark (mvl)      Join Date: May 2004       03-27-2008, 9:39 AM Reply   
From what my dealer told me, it's not about MC trying to make dealers only be a single line dealer, so ya'll can quelch that. Also, that Cope's overall was in some doo-do and that it would be interesting to see what happens. Starting with MC's and Bu news to come...course I could be wrong as well just like every single other post on this thread. As long as we all know that not one of us knows except for the owners of Cope's, what's going on...then we'll all be okiedokie.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-27-2008, 5:06 PM Reply   
Bruce Mac: "would you buy a used MC from private seller out of warranty in washington after hearing this news?"

Hey Bruce,
MC has had 3 or 4 dealers in the Seattle are over the last 10 - 15 yrs. ie; Copes, Gonnason's, Washington Watersport & what was the name of the place on the Kirkland waterfront?

MC has a habit of changing dealers regularly, especially in Seattle. The fact that it's just now happening to their largest dealer just goes to show that no one is exempt.

With that rationale, why would you EVER by an MC in Seattle?? This is certianly no different.
Old    Kevin K (supra)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-27-2008, 6:47 PM Reply   
Dougs
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-27-2008, 7:17 PM Reply   
Bingo, thats the 4th dealer. Doug's Inboards. Thanks Kevin.

Plus, you can throw in Alpine Haus Marina & Metz Marina on the list of Washington dealers nixed by MC in recent years.

(Message edited by bill_airjunky on March 27, 2008)
Old    rod (rodltg2)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-28-2008, 5:55 PM Reply   
What ^^^^^^^????????????????
Old    seabass (baschralper)      Join Date: Dec 2001       03-28-2008, 6:04 PM Reply   
are you hot Sandra?
Old    Justin Nead (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-28-2008, 6:26 PM Reply   
alrighty then...
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-28-2008, 6:48 PM Reply   
Crazy lady on wakeworld watch out...... HO-LE-CHIT...
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-28-2008, 6:51 PM Reply   
I think its Martha Stewart UnderCover.
Old    DAVE J (montana_sanger)      Join Date: Nov 2007       03-28-2008, 6:55 PM Reply   
There goes the neighborhood
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       03-28-2008, 7:24 PM Reply   
All the MC's left the lot this week at Ultimate in Rohnert Park...
Old    Who Cares (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       03-29-2008, 10:34 AM Reply   
fyi mastercraft seattle just announced that all master crafts must go and at dealer cost. funny thing is that make that statement on craigslist. cheap basterds.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-29-2008, 11:27 AM Reply   
The resale in the seattle area on MC just went way down. I feel sorry for all those MC owners around.

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