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Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-20-2008, 10:17 AM Reply   
I'm considering buying a new tow vehicle, and am looking for info on gas mileage...both towing and not towing. In my 2000 Grand Cherokee with V8, I get 15 mpg in the city not towing. Towing I get 6/7 mpg. I tow about 10 miles everyday, and will be traveling about 120 miles or more about 2 or 3 times a month. I am thinking that a savings in gas mileage and less wear and tear on a bigger vehicle might be worth the extended loan period. Any input on your experience with gas mileage while towing and not towing would be greatly appreciated. Right now I am looking at possible an Avalanche or an extended cab truck (possibly a 3/4 ton).
Old    JT (peachman)      Join Date: May 2004       03-20-2008, 10:39 AM Reply   
Go with a Dodge Cummins Quad cab.

By your figures, you would travel roughly 560 miles a month.

Grand Cherokee:
560 mi. divided by 6 mpg = 93.3 gallons times 3.35 a gallon = $312.66 (cost per month)

Dodge Cummins:
560 mi. divided by 11 mpg = 50.90 gallons, times 4.19 a gallon = 213.30 (cost per month)

A savings of nearly $100.00 a month or roughly 6K over 5 years and you have power up the gazoo!

I get 20 mpg on the highway (65 - 70 mph) not towing if I keep my foot out of it.

If the Cherokee is paid for and you like it, I would stay with that.

My 2 pennies,
JT
Love my Cummins!
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-20-2008, 10:45 AM Reply   
Our Florida trip I've been using a F-250 V10

Not Towing - 12 m.p.g.
Towing -- (30-60 mph) = 9/10 mpg 65+ = 7/8 mpg

its my friends truck and back home he has a trailer 100% of the time for his job... the milage isn't great but crazy amounts of power

we used a silverado1500 last year to go to Arizona and it would be pinned up hills doing like 30mph...

this truck we hit the smokeys, up the hill and we could accelerate no problem
Old    JT (peachman)      Join Date: May 2004       03-20-2008, 10:51 AM Reply   
P.S. The 11 mpg is pulling an '06 Sunsetter XTi, with gear, gas, etc... roughly 4500 lbs.

JT
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-20-2008, 10:59 AM Reply   
I still owe $7k on the Jeep.
Old    JT (peachman)      Join Date: May 2004       03-20-2008, 11:44 AM Reply   
I guess you would have to run the numbers and see what works for you.

Questions in making the decision:
-How many miles on you current vehicle (it's 8 years old) will you be faced with upgrading soon
-What is your current payment?
-You owe 7K on the Jeep, can you get that out of it or possibly more?
-etc, etc...

He is an option in your area:
http://www.carsdirect.com/used_cars/vehicle_detail/ul86130571/Dodge/Ram%203500

It's 30K, however if you are going to be needing an upgrade soon, now might be the time to justify it with added savings in mileage, pulling power, etc...

Good luck,
JT
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-20-2008, 12:07 PM Reply   
that truck is stick... I would pass that up in a sec....pain in the ass
Old    JT (peachman)      Join Date: May 2004       03-20-2008, 12:16 PM Reply   
To each his own, I posted the URL as an example. I love my 6 speed especially for towing. The manual tranny is also way tougher than an auto, that was my biggest decider for going manual.

JT
Old    Face Planter (mastercraft1995)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-20-2008, 12:43 PM Reply   
Either the Chevy 6.0 or the Ford V-10. Both your looking at about 12 on the freeway and 10 when pulling.
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-20-2008, 1:20 PM Reply   
the jeeps only got 70,000 miles on it. my payments are only $250 at 5.7%. I think i can keep my payments the same, and get the same (maybe better rate), but just extend the loan for a few years. i've run the numbers...i'm basically looking for gas mileage for different vehicles so i can get as accurate comparisons as possible.
Old    Shane (shane97210)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-20-2008, 1:29 PM Reply   
i tow with a 07 duramax, crew cab, standard bed, 4x4, 33" mudders, stock otherwise, and get 15 in mixed driving 18 freeway at 75+, and 12 towing
Old    Jason (azpowerhouse)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-20-2008, 1:43 PM Reply   
03 Ram Hemi (reg cab, 305 50 20 tires, 3.92 axle), it is fast around town, and I can pass if need when towing uphill.
15mpg overal not towing.
12mpg overal when towing.
Old    Brian (TXSurf) (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-20-2008, 1:55 PM Reply   
Sorry, no exact numbers here for ya, just some friendly advice from an auto tech. If I were you, i would go and test drive a few different trucks in your area that you find fit your needs. Ask other owners in your area about their trucks, there are also a ton of truck forums out there, with lots of helpful members. The terrain of the area you live in can affect towing gas mileage big time, ie. hills, mountains, heavy traffic, etc. A diesel is your best friend if you are towing daily, depending on the load size, but you'll love it for your boat. You should get better mileage with a diesel over the gas while towing as well. If you can find something you like, try and find it with a stick, unless you just refuse to drive one. They are stronger and will last longer than an auto, as JT said. Dodge auto's are the worst of the big three when it comes to diesels from what I've seen in the field as a Technician and from friends. I had a buddy go through three A/T's in a year and half in his before he got rid of it. In case you didn't know, it costs more to maintain a diesel, especially when you have problems, but if you can afford them, diesels have a very long life
Old    Brandon Burek (yubasanger)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-20-2008, 2:00 PM Reply   
I get about the same as jason and my gas I currently .50c a gallon cheaper than diesel. I tow a 14' enclosed trailer for work every day and my 5.2 does just fine. Ok so maby its not the fastest if you want to drag race up a hill with a trailer but I have no want or need to. I think unless your towing a 30' camper or over 10,000lbs than diesel is not needed. Even more so if you live here in Cali. With all the current smog laws on diesels. The truck will cost 8-9K more for the diesel option and the guys I ride with that have new trucks are getting low teens with their diesels. To each his own. Just my 2cents
Old    Patrick Fort (pfort)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-20-2008, 2:13 PM Reply   
I 2nd the Dodge Cummins Diesel. I have the Auto and love it.
Upload
Old    Dale Robinson (daler)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-20-2008, 2:58 PM Reply   
I currently use a two year old Excursion diesel to tow our boat (24' Centurion ENZO) and consistently get about 14 mpg towing. Before the diesel, I had the V-10 Excursion and only got about 9 mpg towing.

Without towing, the diesel gets 16 - 17 mpg and the V-10 got 11 - 12 mpg.

Secondarily, the diesel has a ton more towing power. It's a monster!!Upload
Old    Ed (elc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-20-2008, 3:17 PM Reply   
We either tow with my 05 V8 extra cab tundra or my father in laws 05 4 door F250 diesel. Obviously the super duty has MUCH more power and can tow a tank.

We are taking a trip next week where we will tow the boat (4500 pounds) each way 240 miles.

Gas is about 3.50/gallon and it will take us 50 gallons at 10 miles per gallon in the Tundra = $175 round trip

Diesel is about 4.00/gallon and it will take 41 gallons at 12 miles per gallon in the f250 = $165 round trip – plus more room, more power… etc. The great thing about this truck is the mileage does not change much towing a 33’ 5th wheel.

For the longer trips and towing more weight than just our boat, it makes sense for us to take the super duty. For where I live and my daily driving (LA traffic) the super duty would kill me in diesel and be pretty challenging to find parking, therefore we own the tundra, 15-17 mpg (daily driving). We also picked up the tundra for almost half of what the F250 cost.
Old    Dale Robinson (daler)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-20-2008, 4:00 PM Reply   
Ed,

I'm in the same boat as you (no pun intended) with L.A. traffic/parking, etc. So like you, the diesel Excursion is used only for towing the boat. Otherwise, it sits in a warehouse, next to the boat, with a trickle charger attached - I just drove it for the first time in four months.

If Jay is looking for a tow vehicle that is also a daily driver (depending on where he lives) that changes the pros & cons. Budget may also be a consideration.

One final thought, diesel fuel will very likely come down in price (relative to gasoline)as refiners get further into their summer blends.
Old    tommy robertson (tomcat22)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-20-2008, 5:44 PM Reply   
I use a 2006 chevy 1500 crew cab Z71 with a 5.3 it gets about 16-18 on the highway not pulling and about 12-13 pulling my boat. No complaints far as power and gas usage. IMO i think it does pretty gud.

A diesel is nice but are alot more expensive to maintain and keep up and plus diesel is around $4.00 a gallon and i dont think its coming down anytime soon.
Old    vision (bobenglish)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-20-2008, 6:09 PM Reply   
I would go another direction. I tow a 6000 lb X-star and trailer with a 2006 Toyota Tacoma with a simple 4.0 V6 4x4. Tows with no problems, handles well, and in 4 wheel low it would pull a house out the lake. I get 19 MPG not towing, 12 MPG towing at 70-75 mph. As other posts have indicated, the vast majority of the time you are not towing, so go for the best overall gas mileage in a truck that meets your other needs.
Old    Brandon (bp420)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-20-2008, 6:45 PM Reply   
You're towing smooth and comfortably with the Tacoma? I'm shopping for a daily driver/tow vehicle so I'd like to get a v6, but I want to be able to tow at highway speed with comfort. Is 4x4 absolutely needed if you go with the v6? I'm towing a tiny boat, 2,200 lbs dry. I've only ever towed with my parents v8 suburban and my buddies 4cyl. 4x4 jeep. Right now I drive a small truck, 4cyl. mazda b2300 that's not set up to tow. The v8 is effortless and the jeep is fairly sketchy.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-20-2008, 6:59 PM Reply   
i run a 05 f-150 supercrew 5.4L. 17mpg avg./no tow 12mpg avg./towing 4200lb boat plus trailer and gear. I try to take it easy on the take offs but do go 70-75 on interstate with or without boat. the truck as 90k miles on it rides like a dream quiet and smooth. my first ford truck and i cant see myself going back to a nissan or toyota again. i also have a 00 nissan frontier v6 i bought new. i have put 193k miles on it. great little truck but it wont pull the boat.
Old    Patrick Fort (pfort)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-20-2008, 7:23 PM Reply   
I am getting 19-21 MPG daily driving my diesel in Dallas. I had a Ram 1500 before with the Hemi and only avg 14.5-15.5 daily driving. The real difference is towing getting 16-17 where as the Gas Ram was getting 10-11 mpg. If you take care of the diesel it will last a lifetime compared to a gaser. Diesel is about $4 in Dallas, but I also believe it will come back down as the summer approaches.
Old    Jaak (vguy75)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-20-2008, 7:37 PM Reply   
I use a '98 4 Runner with an auto V6 to tow my 16' Sidewinder. I'm guessing the boat / trailer / gear probably weigh around 2000lbs. Don't have a problem. HUGE improvement over my '81 Volvo wagon! ;) Depending on what the ramp is like where you're going to launch from I highly recommend finding something with 4wd. My 2wd wagon was a hassle at times. I no longer have to worry about spinning tires on slimy and/or gravel ramps. Looking to upgrade to an older Supra Sunsport and use the 4 Runner to tow it.
Old    bill hutchinson (bhutch)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-20-2008, 8:28 PM Reply   
Jay-

I've towed the same mastercraft with three different vehicles, jeep grand v-8, gmc yukon, and a excursion diesel. I would have to rate the yukon last for towing, and everyday driving, the jeep second for towing, first for everyday, and the excursion first for towing, second for everyday. It might have been first if it wasn't 160.00 to fill up. Hey DALE, if you read this do you tow with od on or off??
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-20-2008, 8:56 PM Reply   
http://my.boatus.com/boatus_mag/pdf/bmag0308.pdf
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-20-2008, 8:59 PM Reply   
thanks for all of the input so far everyone! this will be my daily driver too. it's 30 miles round trip to work...20 of those miles are on the interstate, where most times i can go a steady 70 with out too much decelerating/accelerating. right now i average about 16 mpg with the V8 jeep grand on my daily driving. right now i am leaning toward a chevy/gmc 1500 (whether it's an avalanche or extended cab or quad cab). right now i don't see that i can afford a diesel...just wouldn't be practical at this point.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-20-2008, 9:13 PM Reply   
Sell the jeep (if its new enough to get something for it)

Buy older used Tahoe/Suburban
*one near me - 99 Burb 80k miles - leather etc etc = $7500

and

Get a civic - 3k you'll have a nice one and get 35 mpg
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-20-2008, 10:26 PM Reply   
I don't think a diesel makes sense for you at this point. I got 12-14 towing with my gas crew cab. I would also add a crew cab will get better mileage than an avalanche but won't ride as nice. If you wait diesel truck prices are going to drop, at least they have started to in my area.
Old    Bawshogg (bawshogg)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-20-2008, 10:33 PM Reply   
Supecharged F150's do pretty well. 14-15 mpg unloaded, More Tq and Hp than a V10. 10-11 towing. 450hp an 500 ftlbs. Smaller more manueverable for daily driving than a S-duty and total cost with the blower installed is still less than a diesel, Maitenence cost is lower also. My 2.
Old    rick ator (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-20-2008, 11:32 PM Reply   
I think the best question is what are you towing? brandon and jaak and also I have light boats. I use a tacoma 4cyl and it does the job fine. gets about 26 realistically on the highway non towing and 16 towing. Has decent power the V6 would be nice. I also bought a V6 rav4 4wd. I reliably get 24 mpg highway and city mixed ( mostly highway) towing the mileage is not stellar at 15 mpg but 270hp it sure as hell screams. My boat weight 3400lbs weighted. Can't even tell the boat is behind there.
Old    SSE01 (sse01)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-21-2008, 4:49 AM Reply   
To me, it seems like everyone is quick to argue for the diesel or gas in trucks. Instead, you should decide what payload/trailering capacity that you need and go from there. If it turns out that a ½ ton (GM-1500, Ford 150, Dodge 1500) is sufficient, then by all means you will probably get better all around gas mileage going with the present gas trucks that the manufacturers offer with the amount of pulling that you do. When/if you get to a point that you need a ¾ or 1 ton for their capacities or upgraded components, then it really makes sense to look into diesel. Even though the diesel prices are high, the better fuel economy of them makes them more attractive to me than a gasser for the same truck. With that said, I have a Duramax that has averaged a little higher that 16 mpg over the life of the truck.

You will be happy with what you are presently leaning towards, they will both be sufficient for your daily driving and towing needs.
Old    Phil Jakubowski (65sanford)      Join Date: Feb 2007       03-21-2008, 6:44 AM Reply   
Any fullsize gas engine vehicle is going to be about the same as what you have. The only way to save $ towing is with a diesel--You can pick up a Dodge for far less than a Chevy or Ford product but will always get less resale in the long run (what did I just start).I have towed with a 97 Gmc yukon, unloaded I got 22mpg highway, 18mpg city, 15mpg towing a small trailer, 12mpg towing my supra, and 8mpg towing a 24' enclosed trailer with 4 snowmobiles. Next, I had a 2000 Excursion diesel, 21mpg highway, 19mpg city, 17mpg with a small trailer, 15mpg towing my supra, 14 mpg towing my 24' trailer. Now, I have a 2002 GMC crew cab short bed duramax diesel, 20mpg highway, 18mpg city, 17mpg with the small trialer, 15mpg with the new supra, 13 mpg with the 24' trailer. Overall, the yukon was the best for around town and maintainence and reliablity was excellent and inexpensive. The Excursion was second for around town but parts and service(which it needed alot of) was expensive and frequent(unloaded it with 80K and a bad tranny) The gmc has the longest wheelbase so is best for towing but not around town, like the Yukon, it is reliable and inexpensive to maintain. You can see where my loyalty is but for you, shop around alot and don't buy a vehicle that does not really improve you situation. Remember that the gas equivalent to its diesel counterpart will achieve at least 30% less gas mileage no matter what anyone claims. Our fleet of work vans all get 10-12 mpg whereas our diesel gets 22. I keep a diesel truck and a gas car so the options are always open. Good luck in your search
Old    corey king (snowboardcorey)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-21-2008, 7:46 AM Reply   
My F-150 gets about 13 mpg normal, haven't done enough towing to get an exact number but it seems pretty close to 13.

Dan just got a Chevy 1500 HD with the 6.0 L, you may want to ask him as well.
Old    Patrick Fort (pfort)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-21-2008, 7:59 AM Reply   
Phil, you pay "alot" less up front and you will get less back on the Dodge Cummins, I agree. In my research, the Dodge Cummins will still be towing when the Ford and Chevys diesel's are long gone. If I could get a Dodge Cummins with an Allison Trans that would be ideal. The Trans in the Dodge is easily upgraded to handle a ton more power, but the 48re is doing pretty well. I personally got the diesel to afford the longer trips towing the boat, but it may not be as practical for everyone. We have the wife's car for the trips without the boat. Just like boats it is all personal opinion and drive them all until you find the one you like.
Old    Dale Robinson (daler)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-21-2008, 8:07 AM Reply   
Bill-

I tow with the O.D. on except when I'm going downhill and like that the engine does most of the breaking for me. I love pushing that little button on the tip of the shift lever and thinking about how long my brake pads will last. That said, I curious what the manufacturer recommends. Do you know what the recommended usage of the "tow" setting is?

My last Excursion (the V-10)was used only for trips to & from the lake (180 miles freeway each way)and didn't need brakes or tires until after it had 40k miles on it. The current Excursion (06 Diesel) is used the same way, has just over 20k miles on it and hasn't needed any repairs - just a couple of oil changes.

Does anyone know how diesels hold up for resale?

ie: if you pay a $5,000 premium when you buy the truck new, will it sell for $5,000 more than the gas powered truck three or four years later?
Old    rick ator (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-21-2008, 12:51 PM Reply   
no it will not sell for 5k more but depreciation will be less and the truck will last alot longer. I worked in deisel for a long time and cummins is tried and true.
Old    Brian (TXSurf) (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-21-2008, 1:01 PM Reply   
I agree, doesn't sound like you need a diesel with the small amount of driving you do. At least it wouldn't be cost effective. A buddy of mine that sells Ford trucks asks potential diesel buyers how many miles they plan on racking up in an average year. He tells them straight up, unless you drive at least 50k miles a year, you're wasting your money, unless you just want to. The Ford 5.4 and the Chevy/GMC 6.0 are both great gas motors for towing
Old    bill hutchinson (bhutch)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-21-2008, 7:49 PM Reply   
Dale,

Without a doubt the diesel excursions are holding their values. The 10's and 8's are almost given away. Still can't believe at 4 a gallon diesel x's are holding value. Spoke with the ford service manager who said always tow with od off. That said all the professional driver i've spoken with said use the od it will save you in gas and engine wear..as long as your truck isn't searching/down/upshifting you're ok..and these guys have 300-400k on the odometer..I tow with the od off in the city because i was told it changes/firms up the shifts, and use the od on the highway...hope this helps!!any other opinions???
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-21-2008, 8:29 PM Reply   
The 8/10 fords blow out sparkplugs....and when it happens it sucks.

Its a costly fix too...if people know about it I would imagine they don't want to deal with it
Old    Jeff Chu (fossilfuelburner)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-22-2008, 12:45 PM Reply   
I Tow a 3,700 lbs Searay behind a 2005 Nissan Pathfinder and get 16 mpg non-towing and 11-13 towing depending if its flat or hilly. Upload

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