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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through March 24, 2008

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Old    Nick (ironcross25)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-19-2008, 12:08 PM Reply   
Ok he is my issue. I have had the prob of mt boat turning over hard like the battery is dead after I have been running the boat. I have checked alternator its good and rebulit it to be sure. rebuilt the starter. New battery. Still same problem. I looked at the wiring and the power wire runs through the floor and along the bottom of boat and usually is in water since water tends to bulid up from from getting in and out of boat. Will water hurt the wire? Could my timing be off? I installed a new switch plate and the direction said to wire to the battery, is that correct? Should I run a second battery and if so are there any diagrams for install. Thanks for any help on this and sorry if its lenghty. Boat is and 86 supra
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-19-2008, 4:41 PM Reply   
Snippy,

If it is only hard to start after running the stereo for awhile, I'd say that it's time to add a 2nd battery separated with a Perko style switch.

what kind of switch did you install?

Here is a very general schematic for adding a deep cycle battery for a stereo system. let me know if you have any further questions.

Upload
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-19-2008, 4:55 PM Reply   
TM, try and be a little more detailed with your schematic's.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-19-2008, 4:59 PM Reply   
sorry, I was in a hurry ;-)
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-19-2008, 5:03 PM Reply   
It reminds me of Doc in Back to the Future when he has the model of the town and he apologizes for the crudeness of his model.
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-19-2008, 6:56 PM Reply   
I love the diagram, but I don't think she is asking about running the stereo, I think she is saying that the boat is hard to start even after running the motor.....

Water and wiring are never a good mix, especially with a boat of that age. What I would recommend is testing the voltage that is actually reaching the battery when you attempt to start it. That will give you a good idea of if the problem is between the starter-ignition-battery. If you are not getting 12+ volts to the starter, you will need to troubleshoot between the starter and the battery.

What is the voltage of your battery? (since it is new I doubt this is the issue)
What is the output of your alternator? (doubt this is the issues since it is new)
What is the voltage at your battery when the motor is running? (this should read 13-14 volts)
What is the voltage at the starter when you are starting?

My guess is that you either have corrosion or a short in your starting system. If the voltage is less than 12 volts at the starter it will be safe to guess you have a wiring/shortage issue. If that is your issue, it would be a good idea to replace the positive and ground leads coming off your battery. If that doesn't stop the problem I would look at the ignition switch.

It will also be important to make sure your engine is well grounded. If it is not well grounded you will lose voltage as you apply the powersurge to the starter.

There are people on this site much smarter than me about this stuff, I suspect they will chime in soon.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-19-2008, 7:57 PM Reply   
Glad you like it, Pbp, but snippy did ask about a 2nd battery, a diagram, and the proper wiring of what I believe to be a Perko style or ON/OFF switch. So, I dont think my diagram was a total waste

You were correct about smart people responding so here goes.

You have eliminated most everything in the electrical system but a bad cable or a poor connection. This leaves a couple of things in the fuel/ignition area: Vapor lock and advanced base timing.

Battery system first: Along with double checking the things listed by Phatboy, the best test is going to be a voltage drop test on each cable in question i.e. alt to battery or starter, starter to battery, battery ground to block. You will need a DVOM (Digital Volt/Ohm Meter) for this.

Here is why a Voltage Drop test is so good. A battery cable has many strands of wire. It takes only one strand to pass voltage from A to B, so a simple volt test tells us nothing about the load carrying capacity of the wire, just that voltage is reaching its destination. A wire that is corroded, cut/broken, or has a poor connection, will/can pass voltage, but will have a very high resistance, which will effect it's ability to flow current, which it what we need to perform work.

Voltage is nothing more then the difference in potential. When we measure across a battery, the Neg has 0 volts and the Pos has 12 volts, so the difference is 12 volts. If we put the DVOM leads on each ends of a bad cable, we will see voltage on the meter. Again, we are seeing the difference between the 2 ends of the cable and the bad cable is creating that difference. Anything over .5v on a battery cable could be suspect.

Start with this and then we will see if we need to get into the rest.
Old    Joseph Puckett (jpuckett)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-19-2008, 8:09 PM Reply   
I'm using a Hellroaring battery isolator. That way I don't have to worry about switching and charging. It does it for me.

www.hellroaring.com
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-19-2008, 8:35 PM Reply   
Hanger,
I to, like to use an Isolator/Combiner of sorts, I'm too lazy to mess with a switch.
Old    Joseph Puckett (jpuckett)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-19-2008, 8:45 PM Reply   
TigeMike,

It's not about being lazy! Just one less thing you have to worry about. Batteries always stay charged and I always have a good starting battery. Not my battery is dead because I forgot to turn the switch.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-19-2008, 8:56 PM Reply   
It's not about being lazy! Just one less thing you have to worry about. Batteries always stay charged and I always have a good starting battery. Not my battery is dead because I forgot to turn the switch.

I'm with ya 100%.
Old    Nick (ironcross25)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-20-2008, 5:33 AM Reply   
Phatboypimp I am not a she. no worries though
Tigemike thanks for the great input. I did not install a batt switch I installed a switch plate that has 6 diff switches (lights,blower ect..) The ground on the boat looks solid. As far as my power cable the ends look to be suspect but they are not loose. I can get my hands on a tester. I do not have a fake a lake so what will be the best way to do this test? I am not at the point of a stereo system yet I just wanted the second battery for a fail safe in case one went out but to also have for future use. My main concern is getting this puppy starting. Her is a little more infor about the starting issue. I get to the lake, start the boat it fires right up. rip around, pull riders then stop for a rider switch, kill motor then go to start and it turns over like the battery is dying then starts. Stop again and kill motor and it fire up with no prob.
Old    Nick (ironcross25)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-20-2008, 5:34 AM Reply   
Tigemike,
forgive me for I am not a wiring expert but is the positive distribution block the one under the dash of the boat or is it something purchased and installed?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-20-2008, 6:15 AM Reply   
Snippy,

What you are describing sounds a lot like it could be either a bad cable or vapor lock. Both will show their ugly head when the engine compartment temps are high, such as running the engine, and then shutting down for a few minutes.

On that particular boat that I drew this diagram for, that dist block was at the stern/engine bay area. You wont need to be concerned with any circuits going to the helm. If you problem is electrical, you will find it with in the alt, starter, or battery area.

When you say "As far as my power cable the ends look to be suspect but they are not loose" do they look like they have a Chia Pet growing on them? If so, you are in the right neighborhood.
Old    Aaron Ware (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-20-2008, 6:27 AM Reply   
All of you smart guys and no one thought to check the timing. Some times if the timing is to far advanced it will be hard to crank when motor is at operating temp.
Old    Nick (ironcross25)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-20-2008, 6:42 AM Reply   
No chia pet on them. So the next nice day I can pull this out of my garage since we got more snow last night (I live in Ohio) I will check the timing but the question is how to I fake a lake without fake a lake?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-20-2008, 6:52 AM Reply   
You have eliminated most everything in the electrical system but a bad cable or a poor connection. This leaves a couple of things in the fuel/ignition area: Vapor lock and advanced base timing.}

Got it covered
Old    Aaron Ware (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-20-2008, 6:53 AM Reply   
EASY!! Take a plunger make a 1/4-3/8 hole in it and put a water hose bib in the hole. Then put a hose clamp on the back to hold it in place total cost $7.00 and a trip to Home Depot. I will post a pic when my batteries finish charging.
Old    Aaron Ware (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-20-2008, 6:54 AM Reply   
Dang smart guys.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-20-2008, 6:55 AM Reply   
question is how to I fake a lake without fake a lake

You can put one together at the home improvement store with plunger and assorted garden hose fittings
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-20-2008, 6:56 AM Reply   
Its all good, Aaron, the more eyes on something, the less likely something will get overlooked.
Old    Nick (ironcross25)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-20-2008, 7:18 AM Reply   
Thank you all for the great advice. I will let you know of my findings.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-20-2008, 2:18 PM Reply   
TM, how tough/easy is it to install an isolator?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-20-2008, 3:32 PM Reply   
TM, how tough/easy is it to install an isolator?

KISS (keep it simple stupid)

No harder then anything else on a boat. Try to pick a spot to mount the Iso/Combiner, that is easy to reach, and will require the least amount of additional wire to reach from the batteries to the device. From there, just fallow the wiring diagrams for the Iso/Combiner.

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