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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through February 21, 2008

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Old    cale wood (cale22)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-25-2008, 9:28 PM Reply   
What kind of experience have you had with boat repo's?? Have you ever bought from Yacht auctions, National Liquidators, etc?

Let me know if it is a good idea or not.
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-25-2008, 10:34 PM Reply   
just make sure the repo boat you just got isn't from a near by area. id hate for you to be at the lake and the old owner notices that you have his old boat.
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-25-2008, 11:01 PM Reply   
i think it would be pretty sick to be a repo man. i think i could get my boat hot wiring time down to one minute. hahahaah
Old    lakeski (lakeski)      Join Date: Dec 2006       01-26-2008, 3:20 AM Reply   
Same as with many cars (or some foreclosed homes, for that matter).

If someone knows that they are going into default and will lose a boat, etc., they may think they have less incentive to maintain it since that piece of property is a "lost cause." Some may even abuse the property before they lose it because they feel they are sticking it to the "man."

That said, if you are going to buy a repo, make sure you have a mechanic check it out thoroughly so you don't get stuck with problems caused by the prior owner.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-26-2008, 8:40 AM Reply   
im in construction and i do work on remodels and things like that. the other day i went to to house that was in a tract that i completed 1 year ago and the people that let the house go into foreclosure prtty much gutted the house and sold everything off. sinks, lights, appliances, pretty much you name it and they took it and sold it. pretty sad that people think its ok to buy things and let them go to collections like that. i dont know how people sleep at night.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-26-2008, 8:53 AM Reply   
The sad thing Jason, is these types sleep just fine. Guys like you or me couldn't do that but there lot's of idiots out there
Old    Clint (ttuclint)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-27-2008, 10:08 PM Reply   
my boat was a repo, got a hell of a deal on it and no problems at all.
Old    266CrownlineBR (266crownlinebr)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-27-2008, 10:34 PM Reply   
I am not sure anyone is letting their house go into forclosure. I am pretty sure the banks are making them go into forclosure. I would rather people that were misled into the subprime mess by the lenders pulling a fast one strip the house as opposed to letting the bank get it and resell it for pennies on the dollar.

Now with that said, some of the people in that mess should have seen that the market couldn't go up forever. They should have read the fine print and not trusted everything the lenders were saying.

Also, not everyone going into forclosure should be able to strip their house, but I am sure there are cases out there that warrant it.
Old    mike (houdini)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-28-2008, 10:50 AM Reply   
Cole-
I don't know if you are very familiar, but the average cost for a lender to forclose on a property is $60,000 (link - http://www.therealestatebloggers.com/2007/05/07/freddie-mac-says-typical-foreclosure-costs-60000-dollars/

I doubt too that maney home owners are letting the home be forclosed, but many investors are walking away from properties left and right.

Banks are getted KILLED }by forclosures. They get a home that has a large mortgage on it and they can dump it on the market for less; they must eat the loss on the sale minus mortgage owed.

The people to blame are brokers who would do anything to sell a loan and get people into bad loans, and greedy american home owners trying to buy the most expensive home they can. Greed has caused this whole mess, simple as that. There were people making less than $60,000 trying to buy $500,000+ homes with almost no money down... how does that make any sense? Even if home values are going up --- YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT!!
Old    JMB (jbarber3orange)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-28-2008, 1:14 PM Reply   
I'm a loan officer and repo cars, motorcycles, etc when needed. The shape of the repo all depends on the customer, some are cooperative and some are not. But if you're looking to buy a repoed vehicle / boat I would definitely have it checked out for sure. We got a car last week that had poopy diapers all in the back seat. Some people...
Old    Stu (pnizzlefoshisel)      Join Date: Mar 2003       01-28-2008, 6:22 PM Reply   
If a broker lends zero money, has no control over guidelines and underwrites nothing how are they to blame? The banks, who are trying to get out of this clean, are the culprits if any. I am not saying the homeowner never has blame in a foreclosure, but for those not in the know about mortgage brokers, it works like this: Banks send reps around to brokers, who sell the brokers their loans, or their loan parameters. That broker, given access to the banks products, then resells to the homeowner; the same as any retail product out there. So saying your Ryobi drill is a terrible drill because of home depot, ignoring that it was built by ryobi, is the same as blaming a broker. Well, why aren't the banks getting the bad name? If you have a company (we'll call ABC Co) that runs a full page ad in the local Sunday paper every week, and that paper get word that ABC corp produces faulty widgets, do you think that paper will blow the whistle? Heck no. They know that people would loose faith and stop buying ABC Co's widgets, which would drive their sales down, which would cut their revenue, which would result in not being able to pay for their full page ad, resulting in a loss of money to the local paper. This same scenario is happening at the bank level. They pad congresses’ pockets (support their campaign), and anyone else who has any kind of control within their industry. Therefore, the last entity that is going to take the wrap would be the banks. Our government, or investors, loans banks the money that they jack up and loan to us and brokers find borrowers for them. Ameriquest and Countrywide are not brokers, they are banks and a lot of people knowingly confuse this.
Getting back to your original question (apologies for the tangent) I would look into the dealer auctions for the deals. Most banks are setup with auction companies that handle all their auction items. These are mostly for autos, but they often have a lot of boats, RVs and ATVs as well: Brashers.com, manheim.com, adesa.com.
Old    mike (houdini)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-28-2008, 8:08 PM Reply   
Stu, I know what you are trying to say, but it is simply not correct:

"if a broker lends zero money, how are they to blame?" a typical broker house works on 100% (usually) commission. If they don't write loans, they don't make money and many people that shouldn't have gotten a loan, got it because the broker made it happen. Sure the banks provide the products (I know they are a huge part of this), but the brokers are the front runners pushing these products. The salesperson is the first line of defense in a bank/anywhere - they can see problems and hide problems. I am a loan officer who works for a bank. Many of my coworkers used to be brokers.
They can find a product where a person's income level will qualify, since the product is so unique that the payments are low. This person does not understand the loan, but it allows them to buy the home of their dreams. This broker also tells them that they have nothing to worry about since home values are going up Up UP!! They hide some fees in there to write their paychecks and call it a day. NOW - the bank ultimately made this unique product that was confusing, I understand this, because that product has a use, whether it be for a high-commissioned earner that needs a lower payment or investor, but it was not designed for Johnny $8/hour who wants to feel like a millionaire. The broker knew this all along, but hey, that payment gets the guy his house and he can jack up his paycheck since know one else can find this guy a loan like this..... get it.

If you are physically disabled and cannot even handle the drill in the store, so you ask for help (person with bad finances). You ask the salesperson for help and to show you how to use the Ryobi drill (broker). This salesguy tells you how to use it and shows you how to use it, but the whole time knows they will hurt themselves without supervision and thinks they shouldn't use it. They are on commission and need the sale. If the disabled person buys the drill, uses it and severely injures themselves, that person can sue. They can even sue the salesperson (broker). It is called negligence for the salesperson to not ask if they will be using it themselves or recommend that someone help them while using it. Just like in your other example -- if you could prove (key part is prove) that the newspaper knew about ABCs faulty widgets, if they hurt someone or killed someone, they would be liable as well. IF YOU KNOWINGLY are a part of a transaction and know it is going to hurt someone (financially counts), you can get in trouble and YES you are to blame.


Sorry, but I think many brokers made 1, some or many loans that they knew if rates went up (from historic lows) that people would not be able to make their payments. On most of these, they did not adequately explain this to the customer for the reasons stated above.

Now - should the customer have read the documents carefully? Of course. Are they to blame? Of course. But I have heard of many closing agents that play a nice role in this (known in the industry as "professional paper shufflers") that make it easy to get through a closing without the people reading every word.

I heard of a guy that used to say -- "Man I screwed that guy hard. I f----d him so hard I used a sand paper condom".

So --- yeah brokers knew what was going on and didn't stop it.
Old    cale wood (cale22)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-28-2008, 9:02 PM Reply   
Thanks for all of the information, but has anyone ever actually bought a repo from one of these places? What kind of experience did you have? Other than having the boat inspected is there anything else to be careful of?

Cale
Old    Clint (ttuclint)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-28-2008, 9:14 PM Reply   
Our boat came from http://www.americanyachtsales.com/ located in Houston

They had a mechanic on-site that ran a full diagnostic check for a small fee.
Old    266CrownlineBR (266crownlinebr)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-29-2008, 1:01 AM Reply   
Mike - I still think that is a pretty good deal if the bank only is out $60k for a house. So long as the house is worth $60k, the bank makes out. The more the house is worth, the more they make out. They don't make money on the house, but they don't have to pay themselves a mortgage every month and loose the money either. I don't want anyone to think that I am saying the people buying the house were out of the loop on this, but I am sure they were not all in on the game either. I remember the first house I bought, I took my realtor and mortgage brokers word and expected they were not screwing me. I was very lucky. I refinanced a couple of times when it made sense, and had one of the banks - Well Fargo Home Mortgage - try to screw me on $14000 (they tried to add it to the loan). Think about what I would have paid in interest on that in 30 years. If I had not looked carefully at that and compaired it to my first loan, I would have been out the money. I guess what I am trying to say is I can see how some (a ton) people can get screwed into the whole mortgage mess in recent years.
Old    mike (houdini)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-29-2008, 4:39 AM Reply   
No - they lose $60k on average for each home they foreclose on. How is this good at all?
"They don't make money on the house, but they don't have to pay themselves a mortgage every month and loose the money either." --> They lent out money, which they usually got in payments back plus interest. They are not getting any of this back at all. They get the home, which is worth less than they lent out for it and sell it for less than that. It is a terrible situation for the bank.

I totally hear you on the $1400 - that is what I meant before about brokers writing their own paychecks. It is disgusting. I hear stories where a broker tells someone the closing costs are $500, and the documents have $5,000 on them. With the help of a professional closer, this can either be hidden or explained. If the person doesn't know what they are doing (customer), they sign those and totally get taken. The whole thing is a mess from start to finish and many people are to blame - the main people are the banks and broker companies, fueled by the greedy, uneducated consumer.

I just think that people don't understand how bad a foreclosure is for all parties. They think that if the bank takes the home, they win. They win a home that they need to sell as quickly as possible and they are getting squat on a monthly basis, that they used to get a payment...
The only time the bank makes out is when someone owes about 50% or less on the home. This would be when a bank would profit, but how many times is this type of home owner losing their home?
Old    Stu (pnizzlefoshisel)      Join Date: Mar 2003       01-30-2008, 12:00 PM Reply   
Mike,
Your assumptions and generalization are a major stretch.<p>
"a typical broker house works on 100% (usually) commission"<br>
What does this have to do with the topic. As I mentioned, you have a WHOLESALE loan from the BANK, that is sold RETAIL by the BROKER, difference is their commission. Commission has nothing to do with the scenario.
<p>

"They can find a product where a person's income level will qualify, since the product is so unique that the payments are low"<br>
Mike, where do they find this product? Oh that's right, the bank. As I mentioned, broker does not underwrite nor create the matrices in which the borrower qualifies or does not.
<p>

"This person does not understand the loan, but it allows them to buy the home of their dreams.&quot;<br>Let me interpret your bold generalization: ALL homeowners are stupid people blinded by a reward and cannot understand a loan or real estate transaction.

<p>

"This broker also tells them that they have nothing to worry about since home values are going up Up UP!!"<br>
Never mind what your neighbor's house sold for, or the mandatory appraisal required, all homeowner's ignore this and seek all their real estate knowledge from their mortgage broker. That's power.
<p>

"They hide some fees in there to write their paychecks and call it a day."<br>
First, mortgage lending laws and/or "Predatory Lending" is an illegal act, so you are saying all brokers make their living illegally? Second, what fees? Origination (broker), Discount Points (paid to bank) Processing (paid to processor), Yield Spread (paid by bank), Reconveyance(Paid to Bank), Title/Escrow/notary/doc prep/etc.(paid to title/notary). Are there any of these fees your bank doesn't charge? Maybe yield spread, no, its still there but brokers must disclose it and banks don't (think about this part, who's hiding fees??)
<p><em>&quot;NOW - the bank ultimately made this unique product that was confusing, I understand this, because that product has a use, whether it be for a high-commissioned earner that needs a lower payment or investor, but it was not designed for Johnny $8/hour who wants to feel like a millionaire. The broker knew this all along, but hey, that payment gets the guy his house and he can jack up his paycheck since know one else can find this guy a loan like this..... get it.&quot; </em><br>
No I don't get it. You admit it's the bank's product the homeowner is getting.You admit the bank does the underwriting, not the broker. So, every underwriter at a bank, with all the fraud check, and document verification, are not competent enough to handle their job and just takes the word of the broker who only conducts illegal business?
<p><em>&quot;If you are physically disabled and cannot even handle the drill in the store, so you ask for help (person with bad finances). You ask the salesperson for help and to show you how to use the Ryobi drill (broker). This salesguy tells you how to use it and shows you how to use it, but the whole time knows they will hurt themselves without supervision and thinks they shouldn't use it. They are on commission and need the sale. If the disabled person buys the drill, uses it and severely injures themselves, that person can sue.&quot;
</em><br>
If one were so physically disabled they could not use a drill (based on finances), they would

not be able to even get themselves to Home Depot (It's called a credit score). Banks set the credit score that will qualify for their programs, and someone that is as 'Physically disabled' as you state would not have 'bad finances' with a high credit score.
<p><em>&quot;Sorry, but I think many brokers made 1, some or many loans that they knew if rates went up (from historic lows) that people would not be able to make their payments. On most of these, they did not adequately explain this to the customer for the reasons stated above.&quot;
</em>
<br>Again, the all mighty broker can see the future of the market and then should become a financial advisor, which they are not licensed nor allowed to do.
<p>
}My favorite tower & accessory store: http://www.boardbag.com
Old    mike (houdini)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-30-2008, 1:15 PM Reply   
Do yourself a favor and read a few articles out there, below is one. Talk to some former brokers and ask about their power and ability in the process. Ask how being on 100% commission affects their motivation for selling loans, even if they may not be the most honest. Ask about how brokerage firms, being largely unregulated, could not disclose info if they didn't want to. You obviously are not close enough to the issue to see the problems. That is OK, but your portrait of the innocent broker is not realistic. Do some research... that is all I am saying. I work with brokers, know dozens, and have had drinks with them and heard the stories. It is real, it happened, and it didn't help the problem by any means.

Are banks to blame? Big time. Are homeowners to blame? Yes (and no I don't think they are all retarded - but signing a interest only ARM adjusting every year at the lowest rates in history to barely be able to afford a home is not smart... which some people did). And are brokers to blame? Of Course.

Just imagining how the situation is and thinking about how it should work like you are, doesn't tell any realities of how they happen in real life.

Subprime crisis sheds light on mortgage brokers
Great article...
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/subprime-crisis-shines-spotlight-mortgage/story.aspx?guid=%7B5343C57B-AB5B-4D90-A9D4-AF9A76F7D9B3%7D
Old    christy smith (wake4fun)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-30-2008, 2:18 PM Reply   
This thread has gotten off topic but since it is already there...My neighbors son used to work for a mortgage broker. He made awesome money for someone just out of high school was able to buy a house and nice truck and lived real well. One day he came to his mom and said he was quitting his job and going back to school because he couldn't live with what his company was doing to people. He knew there was families out there that were going to someday loose their houses because of the loans they got into. (that was almost 2 yrs ago!)
In S. Calif. homes got unreasonably priced because of these loans anyone with a pulse could qualify for some kind of financing.
Ultimately it is the consumers fault, they bought more house than they could ever afford because of the teaser rates but also to blame is the loan brokers who offered programs they knew were going to go bury some people and only cared about their commissions.

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