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Old    justinh            01-07-2008, 11:10 AM Reply   
I don't know what to think about Boarder's Mall. Is it good for the sport or not? I am yet to buy anything there, but I still check their best buy most every day.

I worked at the Houston Boat Show this past weekend. The winter boat show is a great opportunity for shops to showcase all of their new wares, but also a last chance to move any left-overs from the year before. This weekend I was making bargains--30, 40 even 50% off on some set-ups. A lot of shoppers in Houston got an opportunity to get on first-rate gear at--or even a little below shop-cost.

But I had several show-goers approach me with offers that were simply ridiculous. For example, we had a watson 138 in the wrapper and I had several people offer me $160 for it. That is way below shop-cost and a huge loss--especially for a board that I would consider a gem. Every time they said, "I can get it on Boarders Mall for that." In the end, the board sold, but it being on boarders mall really killed its value (it still sold at a loss).

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I think Boarders Mall buys directly from the manufacturers. They are overstock and second boards that manufacturers dump as early as mid-summer. I know dealers get a shot at these boards first, but it is tough to take on more product mid-season when you still have plenty to sell.

So, is Boarders Mall good or evil? Is it: more power to the people or is the industry cutting its own throat? I would like opinions of all types.

Disclaimer: I don't own a shop or work for a shop and I am not completely knowledgeable about how all things in the wakeboarding industry work, but I do have a master in marketing and am a sales manager in a different industry. This situation set off a red flag for me and I would like to know more.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       01-07-2008, 11:36 AM Reply   

quote:

They are overstock and second boards that manufacturers dump as early as mid-summer.


They're just like whiskeymilitia.com in the sense that they sell last years' stuff at a big discount, just like many shops pro shops already do. All their stuff is first quality stuff as far as I know. (Aren't you required to tell a consumer if they are purchasing second quality stuff?)

What it comes down to is smart business practices. I'm not saying that every retailer needs an online outlet like BBB, but at the same time dropping your pants on the price of a very popular closeout board because someone claimed they could buy it online isn't all that smart, either.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-07-2008, 11:42 AM Reply   
Would you want only one airline to fly with? one cable or satellite co to subscribe to? what if we only had one cell phone provider?

Competition makes the world go round. Large volume/discount retailers can make it hard for some smaller retailers, but think about what the cost of goods would be with out competition
Old    Trevor (hawk7)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-07-2008, 11:53 AM Reply   
I try to support local shops whenever possible, that being said, I'd say It kinda resembles wal-mart, most opinions will be against it.
Old    Stanfield (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       01-07-2008, 12:01 PM Reply   
I'm one of the people that jumped on an 07 Watson for 161$ on BBB back in October or November when they had it up. I would normally buy locally, more specifically from the dealer that handles my boat, but that was too good to pass up.

Sorry local boat dudes.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-07-2008, 12:04 PM Reply   
Definitely not evil. The people behind Boarders Mall are good people. CIE is soon to be an affiliate now that we havea real store.
Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       01-07-2008, 12:39 PM Reply   
Boarders mall is Great for the industry and everyone involved with BoardersMall have been involved in the sport for a long time.
Old    tommyc (tommyc)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-07-2008, 1:29 PM Reply   
We are eeeevvviiillll, because we sell for great prices? I sure hope not. Those Watsons you were talking about were on BoardersBestBuy.com. It is one Smokin' deal per day and if you miss it, tuff luck. Normally we sell those boards for $199-229. We try to keep our prices in line with other shops like EVO & the House.

I have been a wakeboard dad for many, many years and have spent tons of money, and because of that, I look for good deals and pass them on. I am having a lot of fun doing it, too. Plus, the manufacturors love me because I am moving their old product.

If the concensus here is that I should raise my prices, I will :-)

Hi Ben, I miss you, xxooxx! J-Rod, hope the wife is OK. That flu kicked my a$$.
Old    Nate (mammoth)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-07-2008, 1:36 PM Reply   
So...just because they are beating your prices on a few things, you post a thread that implies they are doing something wrong in the title? Geez...quite the spirit of competition there.

Not only does BM have good prices and treat people well, but if you're anywhere near the Delta they also fit the "local-shop-good-guy" description.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-07-2008, 1:47 PM Reply   
so many dr. evil quotes spring to mind...

Tom's got the best deals around and is a helluva nice guy!
Old    John Marshall (johnm_ttu)      Join Date: Jul 2005       01-07-2008, 3:34 PM Reply   
I think it trains consumers to buy only when there is a sale.
Old    Air Again (airagain)      Join Date: Jun 2006       01-07-2008, 5:44 PM Reply   
One thing for sure...I get more e-mail from Boarders Mall then anyone else!
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-07-2008, 6:43 PM Reply   
John, I think the Internet has already trained us to look for the best deals.
Old    Nate (mammoth)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-07-2008, 6:58 PM Reply   
John - It doesn't train the sale shoppers, it just allows manufacturers and retailers to sell to them as well as to people who who are willing to pay full price. It's called price discrimination, and it's generally a good thing.

Just like there will always be people who buy rims for their boat trailers, there will always be people happy to buy the newest gear at full price.

By the time we're old enough to afford these toys, we're all well trained to buy too damn much of it one way or another!
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-07-2008, 7:50 PM Reply   
looks like a good site to me
Old    Tim Parsons (slowake)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-07-2008, 8:24 PM Reply   
There is one thing that no one brings up here and that is MAP. Minimum Advertised Pricing makes the internet all hold to a specific price. What you have here is out of season off price merchandise that just needs to be moved. There will always be the customer looking to save money on last years models and then the customer that wants what is new and is willing to pay for it.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-08-2008, 5:59 AM Reply   
It's the best thing since sliced bread. Now people can actually afford to use the board rather than look at it. These prices are what boards and equipment should be, and I would question the shop price being more than $160....
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-08-2008, 6:21 AM Reply   
It owns...My 06 Premier is trashed from jibbing and instead of having to rock it behind the boat...I picked up an 07 Premier for $147 :-) Wurd.
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-08-2008, 7:19 AM Reply   
as long as they can pay some kid in china 3 cents a day to build these boards. i love the savings. shoot. the cheaper the better right? until one of your jobs get threatened to go overseas for cheaper labor. no one cares. " just give me the lowest price" at ANY cost.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-08-2008, 8:14 AM Reply   
I'm going to absolutely high-jack this thread and probably start a riot...but...here we go:

Let me preface this with the fact that I am not a liberal left-ist donkey, or a terrorist, or an atheistic God hater. I'm a God fearing Christian who loves America and everything this country and my Christian faith entails...However, I am from a Darwinist school of thought when it comes to corporate business and economics, eat or be eaten. If I am a corporate executive who has worked my tail off becoming the lead decision maker of a company and I can get the same or possibly better products or services for my company significantly cheaper oversees why in the world would I conduct that business domestically? It improves my bottom line and my personal wealth....THAT IS WHAT THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON!!! Aggressive ambition. And all the while...a large portion of that money I make is taken from me to pay for food, shelter, and healthcare for a group of the population of which 80% are too lazy to get a job that pays $5 an hour more that the people in Mexico and India are making!

Am I un-American or can anyone else feel my pain?
Old    Lucky275 (lcky275)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-09-2008, 5:36 AM Reply   
I wouldn't say you are leftist, I'd say you were greedy and take advantage of places that employ slave labor.

As far as BoardersBestBuy, the deals look unreal until they charge you $40-48 to ship something. The yellow loogey is on sale there for $269, but $40 to ship, so you save $20-25 bucks off their normal price because they'll throw in shipping if you pay what they're asking. While still cheaper, it's hardly an amazing deal.
Old    Nate (mammoth)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-09-2008, 5:42 AM Reply   
Whoah. Thanks for the tip-off on the yellow loogey. I'll have to get over to the site, and since I'm close enough to pick it up I can skip the shipping.
Old    Charley Carvalho (wakeeater)      Join Date: May 2002       01-09-2008, 9:52 AM Reply   
boarders mall is definetly not evil. Tom conway is a way down to earth wake dad and did everything to get my marius. he even gave me his cell phone so i could make sure they were at the shop at tower park. best service from an online/local shop i have had
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-09-2008, 9:56 AM Reply   
All good to me too...

Not evil
Not good either...

CELESTIAL!!!
Old    Tim Parsons (slowake)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-09-2008, 10:03 AM Reply   
I know that surfboards cost more to ship because of oversized boxes and insurance
Old    Dante (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-09-2008, 10:52 AM Reply   
About once a week I see a great deal at Boarders Mall and have to force myself not to buy it. I can't buy a new board or rope every week. Putting so many good deals (and their fair share of not-so-good deals) up every single day is absolutely evil. It's Pit of Ultimate Darkness evil, I tell you! It's like Woot with stuff I actually want to buy.
Old    Brad Webb (04outback)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-09-2008, 11:08 AM Reply   
The issue is not Boarders Best Buy, or any discount retailer.
It is the Manufacters... I am in sales for a MFG co. in Sporting Goods/Hunting. One major problem for retailers in wake products is the fact that EVERY product is assigned a year model. Our products aren't introduced as the 2008 XXX. Therefore, they don't have to be clearanced next year when they are old year models. Plus, I am guessing there is at any given time, 2 years of inventory out in the marketplace. It has to go somewhere. I can tell you this, when we have something that is old inventory, we want to get rid of it quick. CHEAP. My recommendation to any retailer, such as the one Justin helped at the boat show is this: Take a little time and check with your Manufacturers and get on their closeout list! Intentionally buy closeout product. I for one am all about buying last years product for much cheaper than this years. I am in mid-30's and having the latest greatest is not as important to me as teens/twenty somethings...
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-09-2008, 11:33 AM Reply   
$40 to ship a board is cheap
Old    tommyc (tommyc)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-09-2008, 11:46 AM Reply   
Its not the weight, its the size of the box and the padding it takes so they dont get destroyed in shipping. We don't make money on shipping.

Lucky- My normal prices are great, so this is amazing:-)
Old    Eder Garavito Garavito (spicychalupa69)      Join Date: May 2005       01-09-2008, 3:37 PM Reply   
Charley, i agree, Tommy is a great guy. Bought two wakeboards from him and accessories. He even is willing to swap my vest size for me! BTW Tommy, i mailed it out today. Thanks for everything. DWC shop is ALWAYS my first stop for gear, dont go anywhere else unless they dont have what i want or need!
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-09-2008, 3:41 PM Reply   
usps to ship a board is about 20 +/- fyi.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-09-2008, 3:44 PM Reply   
Alan, You must have a really generous post office. I have sold and shipped many boards through USPS. I cut down my boxes as much as possible and tape them tightly to make the box as small as possible, and still, I usually pay around $40+. That's with no bindings.
Old    David (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-09-2008, 4:01 PM Reply   
I also have sold and shipped many boards and 40 bucks is actually about average for what I've paid.
Old    tommyc (tommyc)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-09-2008, 6:11 PM Reply   
My average across the US is $30 for wakeboards, $18 for Boots & $40 for surfboards. I charge on closeouts because they are skinny deals. On current year product its free.
Old    alan owen (owenitall)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-09-2008, 7:16 PM Reply   
i shipped an '04 parks 138cm 2 day priority mail thru usps for $17 just last week. it weighed about 13.5 lbs
Old    Dave (rdmb)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-09-2008, 7:19 PM Reply   
What are you guys talking about closeouts and last years stuff? Tom set me up with a top of the line 08 package for my wife for xmas and hands down had the best price, delivered.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-09-2008, 7:22 PM Reply   
That's a hellava price. No way you're getting that price at my post office.
Old    William (kana12)      Join Date: Jan 2008       01-13-2008, 1:49 AM Reply   
well i ride motocross and i also try to support my local shop but what i can buy from them i can get at least 10 to 15 % cheaper online even with my sponsorship. i am seeing that it is gonna be the same here in the wakeboarding community that i am new to. that being said i just ordered a handle and line from bbb and they sent me a conformation saying that my order was processed and thanking me for my business. then two days later i get an email stating that i ordered this product after the sales time expired ( impossible since i ordered it when the meter still showed half full and there was 5 hours untill the new product went up) and that i had the option to pay 20 bucks more to recieve this product or i can have a full refund.. i sent a pretty tastless email back to them .. i think that it was total bs.. any one else have any issues with them. i am gona keep through wake-space.com since i have had nothing but positive things to say about them and how they have taken care of any problems that i have had..
Old    bob wells (phatsac)      Join Date: Feb 2007       01-13-2008, 3:13 AM Reply   
Wakeboarding items aint cheap. Many things are out of my price range for sure, Boarders Mall thru their daily deals from time to time make items I would like to get my son or daughter attainable, I lov'em, I'm all about supporting local shops etc. but we dont have a board shop anywhere near us. I think they have a great marketing plan ! also businesses are smart to flush inventory so as to make room for new and to free up cash flow. Successful retailors do it all the time. Look at Wal-mart on their seasonal items...everything has a shelf life, out with the old make room for the new ! just my 2cts.
I've ordered quite a bit of stuff from them with no probs...
Old    Greg Hodgin (eccpaint)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-13-2008, 3:01 PM Reply   
A-Dub's quote...
"It's the best thing since sliced bread. Now people can actually afford to use the board rather than look at it. These prices are what boards and equipment should be, and I would question the shop price being more than $160...."

That makes no sense, the board cost the dealer around $200 or more depending on their volume discounts PLUS they had to pay for shipping to get it.
I love getting a good deal just like everybody else, but if you don't atleast give your local shop a chance, you won't have a local shop....
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-13-2008, 5:53 PM Reply   
post rates are standard. dont let them jerk you on the oversized box. you have either 108" or 106" i cant remember which and ive never had a wakeboard box larger than that but i have had to ask several postal workers to pull out a tape measure to prove the box wasnt oversized, thus saving the additional charge.
Old    tommyc (tommyc)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-13-2008, 7:11 PM Reply   
William (kana12)- For some reason, your order came in 2 days after the BBB deal was done. It looked like you book-marked the deal and came back to it 2 days later and made your order. That said, email me tomorrow and I will honor your BBB deal. Sorry for the confusion.
Old    William (kana12)      Join Date: Jan 2008       01-13-2008, 9:42 PM Reply   
well i thank you for that, i will be returning to do more business in the near future. im sorry if i came off wrong in my email just didnt understand what had happened. again thank you for your help...
Old    justinh            01-14-2008, 8:04 AM Reply   
Okay, maybe my post was not completely fair. Boarders Mall was part of my story, but there are other online outlets blowing out gear. I didn't intend to pick on them directly. There have always been bargain-basement shops online, but this is the first time a company has been this successful and prices have been this low. Boarders Mall’s affect on the market is a testament to their success in marketing and customer service. It will come to haunt them.

It is not about competition and though oversees manufacturing is a contributing factor to surplus—that is not it either. My concern is about the relationship between manufacturers and dealers and the industry/sport as a whole. Consumers buying current year model product at a price far below dealer cost is a troublesome indicator about the health and/or business practices of the industry.

I am sure the manufactures love you, now. They get quick cash for "old" stock, but August 15 of the same model year is not old stock to many shops--it is mid-season. They love you now, but what about next year when distributors go to make their orders? If the dealers are smart, they will cry foul, ask for a rebate on all inventory held past a certain date, ask for increased restrictions on M.A.P., or the most extreme (and the one that is worst for cut-rate online sellers), hold back orders and take full advantage of manufacturer close-out lists mid-season.

Product crashing in value 62% ($420-161) over the course of 7-8 months is bad news for everyone: manufacturers-dealers-consumers and back up the line.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-14-2008, 9:03 AM Reply   
Why should it be priced at $420 in the first place? This thread is similar to the Correct Craft thread in the boats area, the question may need to become, "Why the #*%* are boards so expensive now?" People have too much money to waste if they really go out and get a new set-up ($500-$1000 prob) every year. Boarders Mall is meeting the customers needs where it matters most; price. This should be a sign to the manufacturers that stuff is getting ridiculously priced, and they are actually losing customers.

Greg, my point in the other post was that the stuff is too expensive, the site is great because the normal consumer can actually afford the equipment they desire. Any dealer paying over $200 for a board is not ordering many boards, and thus their target customer is not one who purchases on price, but more than likely image (having the newest coolest thing first), and that type of shop's stock should be low come mid-season. In most industries, the manufacturer (board company) pays shipping to the distributor (dealer), there is no reason this can't be negotiated. Overall, boards and equipment are too expensive, and it needs to be lowered, and until then, the majority of riders will gladly rock last years gear so they can afford to gas their boat. I don't have a real local shop, they all died as the sport tripled it's prices over the last few years.
Old    tommyc (tommyc)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-14-2008, 10:44 AM Reply   
We sell 06 & 07 product at a discount price. We do not sell current model year product at a discount. The gear that we sell, needs to be sold. The manufacturors don't want to sit on old product. They want it to go away and we try to help them.

I hope marketing and customer service doesn't come come to haunt us.
Old    RJ (wakedv)      Join Date: May 2007       01-14-2008, 10:55 AM Reply   
Boardersmall - A-1 I think there great, purchased a new set up from them as well as new handle and rope. Being from Canada we get totally screwed trying to buy wake gear. I saved about $500 buying from them as compared to buying local. Sounds like some jealousy from other retailers, other than them who could possibly complain about great pricing?
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-14-2008, 12:16 PM Reply   
I've been an avid purchaser of wakeboard gear for the past 6 years. I've bought locally and from internet stores. By far I have had the best service from the internet shops (Evogear and Grizzly to be specific). I've never understood the mantra of "support your local shops". Until the local shops start giving me a reason to support them I will continue to shop with the store (internet or otherwise) who does give me a reason to come back.

Thanks Tommy. I just pulled the trigger on today's BBB deal of the 2007 Zeus bindings. I can't wait to give them a spin!
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-14-2008, 1:09 PM Reply   
When a binding piece breaks, you need a special fin screw, or anything that requires special attention. I always feel for the shop that goes out of their way to help an internet customer. My previous posts may not sound it, but I am all about supporting the local shops, but it is my feeling the manufacturers make it difficult/ nearly impossible to do so, mainly with prices. They need to make it where local shops can have competitive prices, after they reduce the overall cost. Remember when Hyperlite was all about supporting the local shop and not being available online? Times have changed.
Old    Greg Hodgin (eccpaint)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-14-2008, 8:06 PM Reply   
A lot of local shops will let you try before you buy. If you are going to spend hard earned $ for your set up, wouldn't you like to try it first?

Last summer I had a guy pull into our store as we heading out to the lake, he was there to check out the new Watson. I said, " Go with us & try it out first." He did and we had a great time, he bought a board & we made a new friend. I have had others that thought they wanted one board, however after going to the lake they prefered something else.

Sorry to pick on A Dub....."I don't have a real local shop, they all died as the sport tripled it's prices over the last few years."

and also as internet bargains have increased.
As a shop owner, we do all we can to support the grass roots events, but we find extremely difficult to make ends meet. We HAVE to make money on our in season stuff because mid August we loose money on everything we have left. We aren't out to make a killing, we just want to keep the lights on!
Old    Greg Hodgin (eccpaint)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-14-2008, 8:17 PM Reply   
A Dub, I agree, boards are overpriced. I wish that all the set ups were $ 300 or less. It would be much easier on everyone.

I don't how many boards you think I should buy to get them for less than $200. I have bought over 100 boards from 1 manufacturer & my cost is still over $200 for the high end stuff.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-15-2008, 6:17 AM Reply   
Yea, prices have just gone crazy. Sad to say and hear. Will agree internet bargains have much to do with it, and I would point the finger straight to the manufacturers. Like my example of Hyperlite, I believe many shops hopped on the Hyperlite train because they promoted supporting shops and not selling on the internet. Within two years of that, they were on the internet, and only a few years later you can find them at your local Dick's Sporting Goods. I wish a budget company could emerge and be successful, but for some reason I highly doubt that can ever happen. I like you bringing up the grassroots events and whatnot, because that is almost a consumer blind spot for where a shop supports their local community. It doesn't seem the manufacturers are as interested in those events anymore.
Old    Dante (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-15-2008, 6:39 AM Reply   
"Like my example of Hyperlite, I believe many shops hopped on the Hyperlite train because they promoted supporting shops and not selling on the internet. Within two years of that, they were on the internet, and only a few years later you can find them at your local Dick's Sporting Goods."

Do you remember why Hyperlite eventually embraced the internet? Some Hyperlite dealers were posing as individual sellers (or at least making themselves hard for Hyperlite to trace) and making a killing selling boards/bindings/etc on eBay. The dealers who were playing by the rules were getting screwed while the dealers who were breaking the rules were coming out ahead. Hyperlite had to embrace the internet because they sure couldn't control it.

"I wish a budget company could emerge and be successful, but for some reason I highly doubt that can ever happen."

I thought O'Brien might make a run at being the budget company after their MSRPs dropped so dramatically from 2006 to 2007 on a lot of their boards but it looks like they've jacked up their MSRPs quite a bit for 2008.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-15-2008, 8:03 AM Reply   
Very true on the internet thing. Why is it that a budget wakeboard would turn people away? Why must all the good technology be so expensive? Even wakeskates, some are still just a larger pressed skateboard.
Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       01-16-2008, 1:18 AM Reply   
you can look at almost any industry and see that there are more expensive boards and products developed every year. to be fair about it, I'm presuming that a more beneficial, albeit more costly technology is being incorporated into the product. at the very least, I can think of a number of wakeskate companies in which this rings true. The flip side is that what was once the high end gear is generally cheaper the following year (ex. follow the pattern of shaun murray's pro models through the years from when they were a full on pro model to a stock board in the line, whether that be the fluid, motive, etc).

furthermore, one must consider the cost of materials--are the prices the same from 1998 as in 2008?

if you don't want to pay for the high end gear, then buy the older models--those surely aren't as expensive as your 08 watson or what have you. Nobody is MAKING you buy high end, expensive boards, and there are price points...

and while deals are nice, and I do like the internet because I can find exactly what I want, whether it be a specific t-shirt, shorts, etc, I personally sympathize for the local shops. After working for my local snow and skate shop for the past two winters and witnessing first hand what they went through (and at the same time, what mistakes were made), it makes me realize even more why I want to support them, or a local pro shop. Someone mentioned the customer service aspect--so long as your local shop isn't full of a-holes, they're worth supporting so they'll support you if you have an issue with your gear. We've had people come from out of town needing a binding part, and they come to learn that they bought a POS snowboard on the internet and the piece is so akward that it's impossible to replace, and now their weekend vacation at the hill is ruined. same thing goes for warranty issues...

Secondly, i'm assuming most people aren't taking into consideration the factors of shop overhead, and how much cheaper it is to NOT have a store front location...

Finally, it's your local shop that puts on monthly comps, brings in pros for demos, sponsors local up and coming riders, or holds that video premiere for your enjoyment. If you don't have a local shop, it's hard to have a local scene with that sort of presence.

that said, of course you can support whoever you want. this is just my point of view, based on my own experiences...

(Message edited by electricsnow on January 16, 2008)
Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       01-16-2008, 1:26 AM Reply   
I want to add that with the wakeskates, it's not like they're all produced like skateboards. yes, there is laminated wood, but with the concave designs you have to mill out the wood to create the concave and kicktails. The tooling and such needed to achieve that is not cheap.

Also look at a company like integrity or the now defunct omen--they use high end materials that are legitimately expensive, and there is a reason you are paying 300+ dollars for a wakeskate.

seriously, there are price points for everyone. If you hate paying 250.00 for a concave wakeskate (and of course LF/other mfgs and shops are supposed to make a profit on an item) or disagree with the mark up, buy a foam concave wakeskate or ride your flat deck like it's 1999...
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-16-2008, 1:27 AM Reply   
oh boy...electricsnow's on fire tonight.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       01-16-2008, 1:44 AM Reply   
no no...when ES's post by itself makes you scroll down the page then yeah, she's on fire. This was rather tame.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-16-2008, 5:58 AM Reply   
Wow snow, that was good. With your logic, of which I understand and agree with, R&D and new technology would be a high cost that could drive the end price up. Therefore the higher priced boards should consist of better materials and newer technology. I see this true with some, but take GB for example, (not trying to pick on them) they may be priced slightly below the HL's and LF's, but not much, and don't seem to have much in the way of advanced technology (bi-level being an exception), especially in bindings, and are still priced pretty high. After thinking for a bit, I actually can't think of many boards (there are a few) that have new materials or technology, yet most are priced high. Like the Watson for example, not much changed from last year......

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