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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through January 18, 2008

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Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-09-2008, 10:11 PM Reply   
I didn't want to bring this up here, lest I seem like I'm whining, but apparently my dad's new insurance doesn't cover pre-existing injuries, and how am I supposed to tell the doctor that I hurt it wakeboarding in early January... Any who, oh great people here who have had knee injuries, I'm curious if anyone has any kind of ideas as to what I could have possibly done to my knee... Here's the description...

Back in early August, I talked my friend into letting me hit the water one last time before we went in, promising that I'd do a backroll (first day trying them). So I go up, almost land the first one, and then try again. Well on this one, I went fairly big, bigger than I usually do, landed in the flats and lost the board out from under me. When that happened, pain shot through my knee, and I sat in the water debating riding again. It killed my knee to be bent like it was floating in the water, but we decided that I should get up and see how it felt on the board. I got up, and when I was riding it didn't hurt at all and felt completely stable. Since then, keeping my leg in one position for too long (mostly straight, but bent sometimes) makes the knee stiff, and it's hard to bend. Stability didn't really exist in it during that time, but I also was avoiding walking on it, so I didn't pay much attention. Later the constant pain went away (with the help of ibuprofen), and turned into the occasional dull ache when I walked across campus or left the leg stiff. I went to the doctor at the school, she did all of the little flexibility tests, and one, either I didn't mention the pain because I hate admitting to pain to doctors and stuff or I just didn't feel anything when she did the stuff. She told me to stretch it and stuff at night, so I did. It seemed to work at first, but the pain never went away, even after a month of stretching every day. One day a 300 lb guy jumped on my back, and where I'd normally collapse (it's happened before...) my knee completely gave out, and when I fell it rotated, and I was hopping around on one foot the rest of the night. Go figure, of course, I fell out of this habit and my knee all but stopped hurting. Then it turned cold, and the dull ache's began again. When I came back home from school on break, I found that my knee was toast when I worked, and where I constantly rocked back and forth on it as I stood waiting to tear tickets, it lost stability. Within an hour of my work shift starting, I couldn't really bear to stand on both legs, and even then it still hurt. Lately, I've found that it isn't stable when I do most activities. I can't pinpoint where the pain is, because the throb just resonates through the entire knee and the surrounding parts of my leg. My friend who had to study physical therapy because he plans on being a football coach told me that it sounded like it could be a sprain, because I definitely did not tear it (it didn't swell up, and I could still walk), but yeah.

Any ideas on what this could be? Sorry for the long winded story, that's almost five months of unidentifiable symptoms...
Old    Nick McDonald (lsukuntryboy)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-09-2008, 10:20 PM Reply   
they said i partially tore mine and it didnt swell. I pretty much did the same as you. but i was supposed to go back to get a 2nd MRI or whatever and i got pissed at the doctor and never went. so im still not sure what mine is but last word on it was the acl was partially torn and he was talkin about scopein it.
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       01-10-2008, 5:05 AM Reply   
......I would def. go get an mri and get a doctor to do all the tests over again..........you may have torn a tendon off completely and now your getting scar tissue (your getting that even if you didn't tear off completely) but in any event you really need to bite the bullet and take care of this now......as you are now stressing your other leg which has to compensate...plus the continual damage being done to the first injury. If you dont you will have issues down the road for the rest of your life.......not to sound alarmist but you are young and can fix it best now if you do it properly.......at your age we think we can just get over things(was the same way) ...but this is most never the case in reality.
Old    Britt (btr1)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-10-2008, 7:35 AM Reply   
I've torn both ACLs and neither one ever swelled up. In fact on the first one I kept riding after resting it a little because I thought I just strained it a little. I walked around on it for 3 weeks with no instability or real pain except for a little right at the back of the knee when I would extend it and put weight on it. When the other one tore it was completely unstable and I could barely make it to the truck to pull the boat out because it felt like it was just going to give way.

Like I said though, neither one swelled up. Get it checked out.
Old    cosmocat (treycleaton)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-10-2008, 9:41 AM Reply   
If your knee folds, it's ligament-related (torn acl, mcl, etc)

Dull ache may = missing and/or torn cartilage

Don't let it go! cruciate ligaments do not heal on their own.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-10-2008, 10:55 AM Reply   
Lie.

Tell them you tripped over a curb or something last week. Problem Solved.
Old    MHayes (mhayes)      Join Date: Jul 2004       01-10-2008, 2:16 PM Reply   
^^^^and people wonder why insurance costs go up all the time....this is part of the reason.
Old    JD (jealous_soul)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-10-2008, 2:26 PM Reply   
you'll need an mri. if you have decent tendon/ligament stability, it might not be an M/P/ACl tear, but there's a good chance you have a deep bone bruise, which just takes a long time to heal, and makes your bones more prone to breaking before you are fully healed.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-10-2008, 2:37 PM Reply   
get it checked. tell them you hurt it when a 300 lb guy jumped on you last week. done deal. if they find old scar tissue etc, tuff *hi*. get it fixed. Doctor's shouldn't have any problem working on you. You have insurance.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-10-2008, 7:36 PM Reply   
You had a doc check it out and it was stable when the doc did the exam right? If they jam you up, you can point to the fact the doctor said it was stable and nothing serious. People tweak things all the time and a little rest and stretch is what most everyone needs. That is not a pre-existing condition. If your knee was not stable, it does not matter if you screamed to bloody heck, it would be unstable. You can not hide that fact. That is why they as trained professionals do the tests they do. I would not really bring up the old stuff but you have documentation if needed.

I would leave your 300 pound friend out of it because the insurance companies sometimes like to go after people to recoup costs if they cause you harm. Maybe give them the fact that you were in a crowd and someone jumped on you and your knee went out. You don't have to go into all the details because it really does not matter.
Old    Alex Hamrick (lfboardboomer)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-11-2008, 9:36 AM Reply   
Look up and do a little research on Prolotherapy. Can be a life saver and wallet saver in almost any case. I am a walking testimonial
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-11-2008, 10:00 AM Reply   
"^^^^and people wonder why insurance costs go up all the time....this is part of the reason."

Yes, go without medical treatment so those rate increases can stay in the pockets of the insurance companies.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-11-2008, 10:15 AM Reply   
Okay, so should I tell them I was playing football (not far from the truth, a month ago I lost stability while playing basketball), I was hit, lost most of the stability in the knee, and came to the doctor? And if they see scar tissue and ask, I hurt it wakeboarding a while ago but the doctors at tech told me that I just tweaked it and told me to stretch? It felt a little bit better so I tried to play sports?
Old    MHayes (mhayes)      Join Date: Jul 2004       01-11-2008, 10:58 AM Reply   
"Yes, go without medical treatment so those rate increases can stay in the pockets of the insurance companies."

If you truely believe that's the case, then you do not know too much about the insurance industry.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-11-2008, 12:05 PM Reply   
"If you truely believe that's the case, then you do not know too much about the insurance industry."

If you truly believe that then you do not know too much about the insurance industry.
Old    Bryan (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-11-2008, 12:22 PM Reply   
Tell them you taunted chuck norris and they are looking at the result!
Old     (1boarder_kevin)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-11-2008, 12:38 PM Reply   
if they ask about scar tissue tell them you don't know when you hurt it. the doctor isn't going to give the insurance company a way not to pay him once he has cut you and he would love to cut on you and make the money. You are over analyzing this.

If you want to be straight up, you could wait one year and then they would have to cover it (check your actual policy but the ones I've seen cover things after one year).
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-11-2008, 3:10 PM Reply   
If you have scar tissue, then it is a healed injury not pre-existing. Insurance companies do pay for a second surgery for instance if you hurt it again. It is not like it is a once a life time payout.
Old    kvoman (kvoman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-11-2008, 3:31 PM Reply   
I agree with the others, get an MRI, and even then, you may not be able to get a full picture.

My wife fell, twisted her knee, didn't swell up or anything, she thought it was ok but she couldn't bear any weight on it. Went to the doctor, doctor thought it was a sprained but sent her to get and MRI, it showed a partial torn ACL. Doctor scoped it and it showed a completely torn ACL and both her meniscus were partially torn too. Luckily, the meniscus can heal in time but the ACL does not - this was about 1.5 yrs ago. Still not 100% w/o the ACL but she's able to snowboard again with a brace.
Old    Alex Hamrick (lfboardboomer)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-12-2008, 5:16 AM Reply   
PROLOTHERAPY! Save yourself the money and visit a doctor that administers this. They take the time to diagnose and FIX the problem, not give you suggestions of what you can TRY to help it get fixed.
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-12-2008, 6:28 AM Reply   
A preexisting injury is an injury that's already been treated by an MD.
How does your insurance know it's a pre existing injury? Is there any documentation that they have to prove that?
Only give the information that caused your present knee pain, if they ask if you've had any previous issues with your knee, just tell them NO only after your latest injury.
Is that giving false information? Technically no, since now you're having a difficult time standing and before you did not.
If you were to do your activities of daily living after the "fat guy jumped on your back" and you can't do the same activities now, in a sense it is a different injury.
From what I could read ( you should learn to use paragraphs ) your latest injury isn't more than 5 months, that isn't long enough to be considered pre existing especially is your since fathers insurance company didn't/ hasn't requested any medical information about you.


(Message edited by phantom5815 on January 12, 2008)
Old    Anna Hajek (reckless)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-13-2008, 7:30 AM Reply   
i hurt my knee yesterday, i think i just hyperextended it but im not sure. i hit the kicker at owc, was trying back 7s under rotated a bit and landed side ways and i landed straight legged, it tweaked my knee a little and pain immediatley rushed to my knee. its hard for me to bend back, but extending it is no problem. any ones knows wat might have happend?
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       01-13-2008, 7:38 AM Reply   
.....not sure anna....but again get it checked right away.....about 5 years ago I did a wake to wake jump and just cased the second wake.and had a brief sharp pain.....wakeboarded another 5 min then quit. walked on it for 3 days and then decided better get it checked. Turned out to be a minor tibial plateau fracture!

......anytime you get hurt get it checked right away ...you just never know what it might be and risk further injury.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-13-2008, 3:05 PM Reply   
Hi Anna, sorry to hear that. I landed stiff legged off the A-Frame last summer and jammed my left knee pretty hard. It swelled up a bit and is taking quite a long time to heal. I've been able to go out to the park but I still try to be careful with it.

You are a lot younger and hopefully it will heal up quick but like michael z said it's best to have a doc check it out. I got an x-ray and nothing showed up, so I decided to let it heal without monkeying with it.

I twisted my other knee in a slalom fall about 15 years ago. It also took quite a while before it was back to normal. At least 6 months with no special treatment.

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