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Old     (ebrown7)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-22-2007, 9:12 PM Reply   
This January there will be a hearing in Portland Oregon to discuss the issues on the Willammette River "caused" by wakeboarding. I'm sure many of you have seen hearings like this elsewhere and I'm hoping you can share your experiences and insights as we prepare for this in Oregon. What would be helpful is to understand:

-Who are the organized groups that will likely make a statement
-What objections will they raise
-How do we answer those objections
-Is there an organized body within the wakeboard community that might be able to help us prepare for this hearing.

There may be a call to create legislation at this meeting. I am hoping we can head that off and am open to any ideas that this community has to suggest.

I look forward to your insights.

Warm regards

Old     (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       12-22-2007, 10:09 PM Reply   
This issue was brought up over on last summer. If it's the same people involved I'm guessing they're gonna argue that wake boats are accelerating the erosion of the shores because they don't like having to listen to noisy boats drive by all day.
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       12-23-2007, 12:23 AM Reply   
Hmmm interesting. People really can get on your nerves.
Old     (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       12-23-2007, 8:39 AM Reply   
Lyle is right from that Wakeboarder link:

"Honestly the wakes from wakeboard boats aren't nearly as big as the cabin cruisers that go up an down the Willamette. I wonder if it is the music that is causing her heart burn."

The argument about wakes and erosion is weak b/c there are bigger boats causing larger wakes than our wakeboard boats. If they come at it from an environmental perspective it can be deflected; the city of Portland is the biggest polluter of the Willimatte dumping tons of raw sewage and chemicals into the water every year. Even with the new "Big Pipe", the city will average 4 days a year with combined stormwater and sewage into the Willy. Not to mention all of the industry dumping toxins into the river.

If it's about loud music, I say let them ban it. They have ordinances in Portland banning loud music from cars, right!! Yet, everyday I hear bumpin' cars.
Old     (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       12-23-2007, 9:10 AM Reply   
Here is the link:

Wakeboarding activities and erosion?

To me it's almost laughable, let's not worry about logging, farming, development erosion, etc. activities putting tons of silt into the river. Look at the Willy today and especially tomorrow as the freezing level is rising to 7,000 ft today. The river looks like chocolate milk.

The Willamette in the spring and summer during wakeboarding season is running a much better color, which means to me, less erosion.

So, let's get some science behind it. I know our wakes probably do cause some erosion, but prove to me how bad it really is. Especially considering the bigger picture!!

These people with the wakeboarding problems on the Willamette are just using erosion as a means to ban wakeboarding....
Old     (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-23-2007, 9:27 AM Reply   
contact usa wakeboard they will send you material to fight this issue.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-23-2007, 10:10 AM Reply   
There are some resources. You might want to contact USA Water Ski if you think your waterway is threatened.

The Maryland department of Natural resources conducted a number of boat vs. nature studies. The short story is that compared to natural forces the impact of your boat on erosion is nil. Illinois made a similar study. These studies are a little dated and probably don’t include wakeboard boats. Here’s my synopsis.
• Maryland Department of Natural Resources
– Natural wave vs. boat wakes
– Little effect except for some small creeks
– Little seasonal difference
– Trick speeds (wakeboard) most wake energy
• Illinois Department of Conservation
– Boat wakes have little effect on erosion

If you want to get scientific here’s the best information that I’ve seen:
• Bhomik(1) boat wake equation
– Predicts wakes size
– For a typical boat at 23 mph the wake is less than 7 inches at 100 ft
– A 0.1 m (4 inch) wake delivers up to 0.0033 kN/m2
• Oregon State Marine Board
– Compared to a 5 inch wake
– 10 inch wake energy is 5 times greater
– 25 inch wake energy is 30 times greater
1) Bhowmik, N.G., Soong, T.W., Reichelt, W.F., and Seddik, N.L. (1991). Waves generated by recreational traffic on the Upper Mississippi River system, Research Report 117, Department of Energy and Natural Resources, Illinois State Water Survey, Champaign, IL.

Locally, that’s in Ohio, we have issues too. There are a number of sculling groups, fishing groups, and property owners that have wakeboard boat issues.

My primary lake is a man-made lime stone lined channel. Although erosion comes up, it’s pretty easy to make a strong case that environmental erosion is not an issue. Some environmental issues deal with silt. Wakeboard boats disturb silt in only the shallowest bodies of water. Chances are you wouldn’t develop a good wake in those lakes and wouldn’t be on them anyway. My lake is about 12 to 20 feet deep. Boats don’t disturb silt at those depths. The turbulence generated by boat traffic is actually good for fishing. Wave energy puts oxygen in the water and makes lures more lively.

There really aren’t too many boats that run their stereos that loud that often. I think the tower mounted speakers give a visual and something for the old rich folk that own water front property something to point to and complain about. Plus if you buy property with a public resource, a park in my case, in your back yard you’d have to expect someone would be in your back yard form time to time. That’s one price for the privilege of owning water front property.

The local rowers are the most organized and vocal. They have funding from the Ohio State University. There’s no way to compete with that kind of money and influence. I wakesurf a lot, my wakes are bigger, and I organize local wakeboard and wakesurf events. That makes me the local demon. I know that I’m sending rollers over the gunnels of these rowing shells, in the spring I often hear chilled shrieks when I pass.

What’s interesting is that rowers are claiming that wakeboard boats aren’t compatible with other boats. I’d like to think it’s the other way around. That is, rowing sculls aren’t compatible with other boats and so they don’t belong on public waterways. I wouldn’t go that far but I think the statement make s a valid point. Except for rowing sculls we’re limited to 22 foot long boats on my lake. There are sculling clubs on other major waterways. There are ocean-going vessels and barges on these waterways. There’s no way that my boat generates a bigger wake than a string of coal barges in Pittsburg. If barges aren’t a problem for these other clubs then how can my wakeboard boat be a problem for our local rowers? I frequently wait for rowers to pass or I change direction to avoid generating interfering with rower. However, if I’m underway pulling a surfer of wakeboarder and over taking rowers I just press on.

A good riding spot is invaluable. Get informed and get involved.
Old     (lostkgb78)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-23-2007, 12:32 PM Reply   
didn't read everything but out in hawaii, this was brought up back in the day about slalom boats in Koko marina,

I don't remember the exact numbers, but Apparently, wind waves are like 2000 for every boat wave and erosion is just a part of nature. The study was done by Yap (sp?) Syderhoud (sp/)

Perhaps Kaesen could dig the information up?
Old     (c640947)      Join Date: Jan 2005       01-03-2008, 1:31 PM Reply   
The homeowners may still want change, even with the studies to prove this activity is not the destroyer of all things natural (or unnatural, in the case of man made lakes and rivers!)

Preparing concessions may be a good backup plan. As suggested earlier, excessive noise legislation is a good one, and is already in effect on many bodies of water. I wish they would enforce it more on my river honestly.

I have read about the issues on the Willamette before (I used to live in Lake Oswego) and I seem to remember complaints about riders getting too close to docks. Another concession may be to have the local patrol more actively enforce rules of riding too close to fixed structures.

Just a couple of thoughts. I'd love to move back one day and if I couldn't enjoy my boat there that may change. :-(
Old     (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-03-2008, 4:02 PM Reply   
Good post BigShow!!! I probably have the greatest sympathies for row teams and canoeist on lakes and try my best to leave them in peace. They pretty much disturb no one else with their activities but really get jacked by all other boats.


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