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Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-25-2007, 8:54 AM Reply   
Hey Guys... I feel bad posting about this.. since I'm sure theres every tip out there imaginable somewhere on the web... but here it is again...

I need help with my Backroll..

So i started throwing my backrolls about 4 months ago with a strong body position with a tall, very progressive, short cut. I learned to load and release out in the flats in a tall position with my back straight, legs stiff and hips pushed up towards the sky... handle low...
I would drift towards the wake, wait till the white wash load and release at the wake... i took a vid of myself and the roll looks real smooth... but I never get any height so i never make it around.... (i accidently delted the vid) what i dont understand is how am I supposed to stand tall and pop when I'm leaning against the line when im standing tall already with my hips pushed up already? My back is slightly arched when I load the line and so I would have to let off edge so im not leaning away from the boat so much to stand taller but that kills my load and then I eat it...

so I decided to try and throw my roll from a seated load position... heres what became of it...

http://www.3dchad.com/download/John/CIMG0932.mov

I know the vid isnt the greatest and I know im doing these things wrong in the vid...

my handle is at my chest... theres no sign of a progressive edge... my cut is starting out too far... and im throwing it a bit early... the line tension is gone once in the air... and it just looks ugly overall...

but the point is... i am getting enough height... Ive tried cleaning all these things up... but the line goes slack in the air and i really feel like im working too hard for the roll instead of when i was in a standing tall position... Im seriously getting to a mental block at this point not know whether to go back to a strong tall position with a good looking rotation and not getting any pop, or trying to clean up the seated position load.

really if I can get some help learning how to pop off the wake from a standing tall load i could land it for sure...

please help... thanks guys/gals...
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-25-2007, 8:58 AM Reply   
Oh and one more thing... when I load the line and "wait" for the pop in a standing tall position... I pop... and then the load on the line just takes me raley because I didnt release the load over my shoulder at the wake...
Old    Ryan Miller (ryman32)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-25-2007, 10:12 AM Reply   
The height and rotation look a lot better than most I see trying this trick. The biggest thing I'm seeing is you are too much on your edge when go up the wake, which is why you are landing on your butt. Let off you edge and flatten out a little, keyword A LITTLE, and that will keep you from having so much weight leaning back on your landings.
Old    Chuck H. (toesideturtle)      Join Date: Oct 2002       10-25-2007, 10:23 AM Reply   
John
I'd be gald to help you with that backroll problem--other things as well. We ride at a little spot just off I-5, south of Bakersfield.
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-26-2007, 5:54 PM Reply   
What lake?
Old    Chuck H. (toesideturtle)      Join Date: Oct 2002       10-27-2007, 4:38 PM Reply   
A PRIVATE ONE
Old    Terry (wakenerd)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-31-2007, 1:19 AM Reply   
John,

After seeing your video, I think you could have landed it just the way you did it, not perfect, but still landing it. Notice you let out of your arms when you are up in the air? If you had you handle close to your lead hip you could have landed it the way you did it.

I can see that you are confused at this stage. Don't think any more than you need!!! You had the height you need and you completed the rotation all you need is handle close to your lead hip.

It's that simple, trust me I've been there.
Old    Terry (wakenerd)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-31-2007, 1:22 AM Reply   
One more thing...have you ever over rotate this trick?

Let out the handle from your body a bit if you feel that you are over rotating.
Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-04-2007, 6:02 AM Reply   
I paused the vid just before you are over the center of the wake and the handle is up around your shoulder. You have your arms bent but keeping the rope lower throughout the rotation is going to give you a better more consistent rotation. Don't think about anything except keeping that handle in tight at the waist. Then see how you shape up before the landing. I promise that you be in a bette position to land this. In fact, I've landed this with less height all because of my handle position.

Like Terry said, I've been there, too!
Old    Scott Dearduff (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-04-2007, 4:09 PM Reply   
Seth got it keep the handle closer and lower the whole time. the key to this trick looking clean is rotating centered with the rope. You will get it also slow down a little you are going very fast into the wake. You will get it
Old    Oliver Hartmann (livigno)      Join Date: Aug 2005       11-24-2007, 4:26 PM Reply   
1) Try a taller approach. You don't need to squat down before you reach the wake to get pop.

2) Try to cut in progressively, but more slowly and not as much on edge. You need a lot less edge and line tension than you would think for a HS Backroll.

3) I paused your video to check your take off. First of all you are taking off a little early - just wait a little longer before you pop. Then you are extending your front leg all the way (good), but not your rear leg. You need to stand tall with both legs. Also don't lean back as much as you cut in. Stay more over your board.

4) The handle should be positioned right at your front hip from the beginning of your cut till your halfway through the trick. After your board is over your head you can release your rear hand which will slow your rotation.

5) First pop, then start your rotation by looking over your lead shoulder.

6) All in all this trick is all about the correct technique. It can be accomplished with a short cut, a small amount of speed, and just medium line tension. It't all in the progressive cut, correct body positioning and straight up pop from the very top of the wake. Very useful instructionals on the backroll can be found in The Book and Waketrix.

Once you land it you will be amazed how much of a simple and easy going trick this is.

Hope this helps.
Old    Rob (ridinsidewayz)      Join Date: Nov 2007       11-25-2007, 1:20 PM Reply   
The Problem
Listen to seth, but also notice that you have one/no hands on the handle halfway through the rotation. The HS Backroll is a two handed trick, you got the rotation beautifully, you just bailed early. Nice form, decent approach... Just don't give up!

The Solution
One of my buddies told me to do this when beginning inverts: get up with your feet OUT of the bindings, take the boat to ~24mph, cut out HS and roll onto your back and just ride your vest. You'll let go the first few times, no doubt, but when you begin to hold on, it'll build up your forearms and courage to hold on while upside down.... And also while butt checking on sloppy landings ;)

Off the record, I can't land a Heelside backroll. But I've tried a ton of them and ride with peeps who CAN. There's alot of good advice in this thread, but I'm telling you one of your problems is letting go way too early.
Old    D.F.T.R. Josh (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-25-2007, 1:37 PM Reply   
Oiver hit it with #3 !
Old    Oliver Hartmann (livigno)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-01-2007, 4:06 AM Reply   
Have you landed that sucker already? Just curious
Old    Kyle Schoney (schoney05)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-31-2008, 10:22 AM Reply   
k the easyist thing to do is come at the wake so you T up to it dont sit so far down in the seat and when you hit the wake throw your head to your sholder and it will throw you right around just how you want it and you'll stomp it every time
Old    Kyle Schoney (schoney05)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-31-2008, 10:25 AM Reply   
and another thing that helped me a lot was to watch people stomping back rolls so maybe look some up on the internet and research for a bit.. but just stand a littel taller and throw your head into the sholder and you'll stomp it every time you got everyting else i promise... i havent not laned one yet ever since i started doin that
Old    grant sharp (gjacko77)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-04-2008, 8:37 PM Reply   
hey guys i will be trying these on sunday and i'm a little confused?

People are saying look over your lead shoulder and leave your head where it is? Or are you saying look over your lead shoulder but tilt your head to your back shoulder to initiate the rotation?

I ride regualar so look over my left shoulder but tilt my head back to my right shoulder to initiate rotation

(Message edited by gjacko77 on April 04, 2008)

(Message edited by gjacko77 on April 04, 2008)
Old    Trevor (hawk7)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-05-2008, 3:17 PM Reply   
grant, i dont mean to add to the confusion, but this really helped me: keep the handle in close, or atleast the same distance from your body the whole rotation, the closer the handle is the faster you will rotate and it might keep you a little more on your toes [hopefully not too much over your toes, but still]. hope that helps a little.

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