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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through October 14, 2007

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Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       10-10-2007, 4:02 PM Reply   
I am just curious as to why the wake enhancement devices that come factory installed on the boats are not used when the boat is pulling the INT championships. Today the outlaw division was pulled by the malibu LSV and the Supra 21 and they do not use the wedge on the Malibu. Besides the boat being 23' on a 5' deep lake they did not use the wedge at all. The officials said they would use factory ballast on each boat. So I would think that they would use the wedge as well. Does this mean they dont use te Wake plate or TAPS on the other boats? Also why would a company send their big boats to a shallow lake. TIGE has the RZ4 here for us and Malibu sent the LSV. I dont get it. The smaller boats would make a better wake with stock ballast then the big ones and not so many kids would be surprised by the little wakes at a time when they are trying to have "FUN".
Old    Bobby (wkbdnbobby)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-10-2007, 6:16 PM Reply   
i dont know the science but ive heard that in shallow lakes adding ballast or using the wedge actually makes the wake smaller because the water can bounce off the bottom of the lake...
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-10-2007, 6:27 PM Reply   
Something like that, but Ben is right, on a shallow lake the smaller boats are better for wake size and also get up to speed quicker. Ben, tell Tony what up and good luck from us.
Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       10-10-2007, 7:43 PM Reply   
Thanks Randy T rides tomorrow. As far as shallow lakes, we ride every day on a private lake that for the last 4 weeks has been 5' deep. We have a VLX that we fill full ballast (1200lbs)full wedge and 1200 lbs of lead. Wake is not as big as when we have the normal 6.5 ft but we can get a great wake that most kids ask to ride behind because of the size of the wake. The biggest issue is the larger boats on the shallow lake. the smaller boats do not have as wide of a wake and get on plane faster when a rider falls in the middle of the coarse. All I know is that the boats are not looking real good as far as the riders are concerned and I am sure that is not what the Boat companys want to happen
Old    Gordie Taylor (wakeparent)      Join Date: Jan 2005       10-11-2007, 7:53 AM Reply   
Hey Ben keep us updated on how Tony is doing! Good Luck Tony...
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       10-11-2007, 8:01 AM Reply   
Rip it up Tony, Represent Central Cal.
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-11-2007, 9:36 AM Reply   
The boat companies need to be more proactive in knowing what is going on. I would want to know the specs of the lake and what boat I want out there. There should also be a rep there to ensure the boat is set up to be the best wake possible.. It happens every year where a boat \for one of the divisions really has a stinky wake. How diapointing to travel 2000 miles, take a weeks vacation and spend $1500 for a crappy wake.

I put the onus on the boat companies, not INT.
Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       10-11-2007, 11:43 AM Reply   
Looks like it is Ryan Anderson, Andrew Dyrhood, and Tony Carroll in top 3. but you never know with INT.

Roger I agree it is on the Boat companies to make sure their boat is right. We ride a Malibu at home and here you do not want that boat because it has the worst wake on this lake. best wake right now is the Supra 21 because it is a skinny short boat so it can still produce a wake. The lake is also very uneven on the bottom so the wake is not only small but very unpredictable.

The event is run very well and alot of fun but when a family shells out all the money it takes to get here it is sad that you have to threaten kids with being DQ'd if they complain about the wake or the boats. I think they need to pick a venue and boats that will allow the kids to really showcase the run they have worked so hard to put together for the National Championships.
Old    cdubs (chris_williams)      Join Date: May 2007       10-11-2007, 1:05 PM Reply   
I'd ask someone at the event whats up? They should at least drop the wedge in a shallow lake. Good luck Tony!
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-11-2007, 1:29 PM Reply   
That's a pretty good top 3 right there. They all rip.... Ryan I heard you didn't throw the Ohh'Ryan 9 today. Bust that s#*! out on Sunday. Good luck to all the riders.
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       10-11-2007, 3:27 PM Reply   
Ben,

I'm sure you've already done this but something that is good to do is look at the trick point values and have Tony plan out his run. Also look at the risk reward of doing certain tricks, meaning there may be very little point difference between a trick that Tony is sketchy on compared to a trick that he stomps every time. Also, last time i checked there is no penalty for falling as long as your still able to get in all your tricks. For this reason it is good to try to knock out all of your solid tricks early so if you don't hit some of the harder ones you still have time to get up and try them again. Or you could also try it first off and then you have the entire course to try and get them all in.
In INT strategy plays a major role so make sure you know all the rules and are up to date on all the point totals.

Sounds like Tony is right in the thick of it, so good luck and keep us posted.
Old    Roger Hornsby (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-12-2007, 8:23 AM Reply   
what is up about secret standings? Is there anyone out there that thinks this is a good idea. This is ridiculous. WHERE DO I STAND? Am I first or 4th? DOn't worry about it - Just have fun.
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       10-12-2007, 9:23 AM Reply   
Yeah roger that is total stupidity on hiding the scores.
Also do the boat companies actually bring the boats or are they just brought by the coordinators? To me it looks like there are no spanking new boats here which you would think you would see at a National event
Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       10-12-2007, 4:02 PM Reply   
INT seem to feel that if know one knows what boat they ride behind until the very last minute and know one knows how they scored everybody will be focused more on "FUN". I do not agree.

Some of the boats are new and some are not.
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-12-2007, 6:42 PM Reply   
Jim T - The Centurion Enzo 230 is a 2007 with 23 hours on it. It is Phillip Aslinger's team promo boat that we picked up last month. The INT "boat coordinator" determined the ballast set-up and selected which boat would pull which event. Phillip delivered our boat on Monday. They were testing boats on Tuesday to make sure perfect pass and ballast systems were working. Coordinator children were allowed to ride and test the boats.
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-12-2007, 7:11 PM Reply   
George, how is Phillip doing after his injury.
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-12-2007, 8:39 PM Reply   
Randy, He started riding again June 18th, strength in hand and arm is now 100%, sill doesn't have full range of motion despite lots of therapy, therapist says this injury often results in loss of motion in the wrist. He has learned alot of new tricks this summer, has to work on consistency for the tour next spring. Thanks for asking.

How is Alex?
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-12-2007, 9:00 PM Reply   
George, good to hear Phillip's getting better and looks like he will be good to go for the start of the season next year. Alex was riding well then got pretty sick and had to scratch from INT Nationals & Tige, he's pretty bummed about that but will be ready for the start of tour next year.
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       10-12-2007, 10:11 PM Reply   
George-The x2 was ran with NO ballast today and the PPass has not worked on the 220 from day one. I can not believe that a 20 ft boat can not be ran on a 4 foot deep lake with ballast? This secracy is just insane. There is no FUN in not knowing how you stacked up to your fellow competitors
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       10-13-2007, 7:54 AM Reply   
Ben, tell Tony Chris and I are rootin for him!

Randy, Ben where would be a good place for Chris to go this winter to practice the flat bar and transfer box? I think he's realizing if he wants to give serious competition a roll he's not getting any younger. He's saved up enough $ to make a trip somewhere for a few weeks, I'm assuming somewhere in Orlando?
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-13-2007, 8:06 AM Reply   
Rich, OWC built a transfer box last year but never installed it (it needed some changes) I would expect it will be ready this year. I think Tommy Conway has one but haven't heard much about it sense it was built. Gravity Resurch in South Carliona has one as well as other rails & wall rides. O'Town Watersports in Orlando has one, but you should check with them first, it might be limited to his students. Tell Chris welcome to the tour, fun stuff.
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-13-2007, 9:48 AM Reply   
Back on topic... Lots of good points made. I've been involved with the INT since 1999 so I have some insight here. It is a lot of work to put on a good state run event much less a Championship. The powers to be have always been willing to listen to suggestions on how to improve and I have seen some some positive changes in the last couple of years that have been brought on by input from riders and family's, I know that over the winter they have asked some of the Pro riders to help them re-evaluate the scoring and point values. The biggest issues have always been the same compliant's, non posting of scores (a compliant of mine also), site choice (will never have everyone agree on this one), event date (time of year) & boat/wake enhancement. The way to develop change is through communication, get involved, talk with your coordinators, offer suggestions, E-mail Rick Stocks with positive recommendations and explain your position. My coordinators Chuck & Linda Payton are always looking for ways to improve not only their state events but also the national event as well and are always seeking imput. Is the INT perfect, no, but nether is the Pro tour, USA Wakeboard or the IWSF. If we want to make changes we have to get involved, and done correctly they will listen. My 2 cents.
Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       10-13-2007, 12:12 PM Reply   
I agree with Randy as far as make positive suggestion and see where it goes. As far as not posting scores. The skiers know who did what 3 balls at 34 off beats 2 at 34 of so every one knows. The problem in wakeboard is that they have style points that as it is being done right now vary greatly from person to person. Example, on the qualifying pro scores Mike Marsh got 5250 style points out of a possible 5000. Tell me how that happens. Randy is right about new ideas. Chuck Payton and Peter Twelker came up with a rock solid style scoring system that made the scoring more consistent but unfortunately a few closed minded people didnt allow it to be used back here for the championships.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       10-13-2007, 12:25 PM Reply   
Thanks for the suggestions Randy, I think Chris expects to pay for some instruction on those if that's the best / quickest way to start getting them dialed. I was going to check with tom as well, I know he built one but I'm not sure if he's actually using it. I think if someone has a course set up that mimics the PT's that would be ideal. He hasn't had the advantage of running a current PT course like Alex and Tony. He rode some jr mens's events back when the PT used to come to Belaqua years ago (99 or 00 if I remember correctly) but back then the jr men didn't hit the sliders.
Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       10-13-2007, 12:28 PM Reply   
Rich Tony just said that O town has one
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-13-2007, 12:48 PM Reply   
Rich the course set up always changes and the sliders are in different locations, The first hit on the "Box" is always an adventure, speaking as a parent I can tell you that you don't want to be there

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