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Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-30-2007, 7:14 PM Reply   
So I got to try a few of these this weekend. I've only tried a handful before this past weekend but this is the first time that it's actually made sense in my head. Can you guage anything from these pictures? I wish I had video as I know that would help more.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-30-2007, 7:18 PM Reply   
Thanks Alan for the tips. I really practice some jumps and felt really comfortable with the edge change before I tried any. Obviously I brain farted with the handle in this sequence but is there anything else you can tell from the pictures? I've really tried to stand tall off the wake and throw the frontroll first.

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(Message edited by eubanks01 on September 30, 2007)
Old    Dan Vargas (wakemandan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-30-2007, 10:46 PM Reply   
Ive only landed a few scarecrows; is the crow the same thing?

If you are infact going for the scarecrow, let go with your front hand instead. Also, in that last picture, the handle is being held away from your body.

Enough of the neg. That edge on the top of the wake looks fantastic!
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-30-2007, 11:56 PM Reply   
well you know stated the handle issue but it also looks like, from the spray in the first photo, that youre still edging up the wake. also youre not standing tall of the top. youre bent over at the waist and your shoulders are over your toes, not majorly but any bend at all is too much. and the handle looks too high in the first photo. other than that there doesnt appear to be any problems. have you landed any yet?? if not you gotta be getting close. whats up with the 3?? have you dropped the speed yet?
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-01-2007, 6:34 AM Reply   
Thanks guys. Nope, I have never landed any as this weekend was really the first time I've ever had any focused attempts and knew more of what I was doing. At the end of the day I started just frontrolls and was getting pretty close. I was still coming up short though. I've really tried to take my crows up and over FIRST because I know a lot of people have trouble learning fronts as they learned the crow first and learned the wrong technique.

Yeah, I think handle placement is my biggest problem right now. In this sequence I could tell I was going to under-rotate so I would usually just bail on my butt and not try to bring it around with my front hand. I think you're right Alan in that I need to get that handle in tighter and lower at the top of the wake.

Alan - What do you mean my shoulders are over my toes? Where should they be? I really felt like I was coming off edge. Maybe I need to be more aggressive with it then. I could have just been "letting up" on my edge instead of really rocking back on my heels...it's hard to tell without video.

I was nervous to try these but now I'm getting more confident. I still have the occasional throw it from the trough and land on my head crash though. See link.
http://www.pbase.com/eubanks01/image/86477954
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-01-2007, 6:39 AM Reply   
And about the 3...no attempts this weekend. I really wanted to focus on the crow/frontroll. I'll probably use the offseason to slow the boat down and dump the ballast to work on the spins.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       10-01-2007, 10:25 PM Reply   
awesome pic. ill respond to your email soon. work has been crazy. with the weight/chest over your toes it looks to me that in the first pic you have your chest tilted foward and this cause your weight to be on you toes. at the point this photo is taken my back would be straight, weight on my heels, and knees VERY slightly bent and handle pinned to my front hip and ready to transfer all of my energy straight up. once i shoot up then i dump my chest down not forward and tuck my head and bend my knees(to speed the rotation). it looks like you are landing out in the flats and you arent getting all the way around which tells me that your are flipping foward not up and down. sorry that probably makes no sense. get on a tramp and try to flip with your chest(weight) over your toes and youre not going to be very sucessful and youre not gonna rotate much at all. then try to flip with your weight on your heels, chest straight and bingo it works. i dont really have any better analogies.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       10-01-2007, 10:29 PM Reply   
i remember when i was learning these earlier this year all i did was try to get the correct pop at first. and i was landing out in the flats. its counterintuitive because we are so used to edging thru the wake but really edge as hard and you can at the wake and then just stop and stand tall at the base of the wake and see what happens. i know you stated you did some of this prior to flipping. get some film of yourself. i know i think im doing something a certian way, but when i see it on film im actually doing something a little different.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       10-01-2007, 10:38 PM Reply   
fwiw i dont know about the others but i edge into this harder and anything save for a raley based trick.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-02-2007, 6:38 AM Reply   
Thanks for taking the time to reply Alan. I'll really try to get off my edge more next time and see what that does. It is definitely hard to get used to a totally different edging technique.
Old    Adam (blindmnkee3)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-02-2007, 10:41 PM Reply   
J...Best advice anyone will give you for learning this trick...wear a cup!! Trust me. I won't even attempt this trick anymore without proper protection
Old    Sean (canaday)      Join Date: Dec 2002       10-04-2007, 2:38 PM Reply   
hold on with two hands and you aren't getting out over your back shoulder. Either do a front roll, get an early spot and then go for the 180 with the handle placement, or as you are taking off up the wake (not at the wake), overexaggerate trying to spot early (basically over your back shoulder) that will allow you to rotate further behind you for the more of the "scarecrow" scarecrow and not so much the front roll to revert.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       10-04-2007, 9:22 PM Reply   
sean i dont think he is going for an out the back crow. those are largely considered the incorrect way of doing crows. though i see nothing wrong with doing either( i do them both ways) i think its better to learn the type of he is.
Old    sperbet            10-05-2007, 8:56 AM Reply   
what really helped me get these dialed this year was concentrating on placing more weight on my front foot than normal. There was another crow thread earlier this summer that was extremely helpful. You may want to take a look for that one.
Old    Trew Woodley (trewblu)      Join Date: Sep 2007       10-05-2007, 5:49 PM Reply   
pull the rope in to your chest more
Old    HH99 (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-06-2007, 7:19 AM Reply   
Here you go...http://www.wakepics.com/img/21468
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-15-2007, 7:38 AM Reply   
UPDATE: I tried a few more of these this weekend...probably about 20 to be exact! I had several of my closer attempts to which mid-flip I was surprised I didn't land them. I was mostly trying frontrolls but switched over to the crow towards the end of my set. I feel much safer (injury wise) trying the fronts becasue my pop still isn't all that consistent. And when I miss the pop but try to pull around the crow I end up tweeking my ankles and knee pretty good. The safer bail for me is just doing the front if I can feel I missed the pop.

So the times I did pop they felt really good but I was just coming up a hair short. Sometimes I wasn't flipping very fast and this could be due to the handle being too far out (which I really focused this weekend on keeping it in) or just not throwing it hard enough. I really try not to think too much about hucking it because when I get focused on that I often miss the pop.

I did feel the difference of completely getting off edge or not. The times I didn't I wouldn't get as much trip and would flip very slowly. Sometimes though I would come off too much and my hips would get in front of me making it very hard to get up and over.

So I guess the answer for me will be to keep the handle in and really focus on getting straight up pop off the wake...and waiting to throw it. I still thew about 40% of them mid way up the wake.
Old    Robert A. Rodriguez (robertr720)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-16-2007, 3:36 PM Reply   
For me the thing that helped me to get down the crow was really waiting to pop. I had the rotation feeling down from trying them on the tramp. When I went to learn them the thing that made it all click for me was hearing someone tell me to pretend that there is a bar straight in the middle of the wakes that is 4ft high. He told me that whatever trick I was trying to make sure that I clear the bar before I throw the trick. Now I know that I am not waiting till I am 4ft high to throw the crow but it sure did make me wait to throw it. I usually feel myself getting booted then I flip. Keeping the handle in is key to taking it big too. This theory really helped me out on a lot of tricks. mostly on toeside where I was having a lack of height problem.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-20-2007, 9:36 PM Reply   
FINALLY!
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Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-20-2007, 9:39 PM Reply   
This was the first time I've tried these since my last update. Well, I finally landed one today! Then...I landed two in a row in my second set! Seeing these pictures, I notice they are thrown a little bit more out the back than I would like but I'll take it. I need to clean them up and take them more up and over first but at least now I'm starting to understand the pop and rotation. This sequence was the 2nd one I landed. Woohoo!
Old    Adam (blindmnkee3)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-20-2007, 9:52 PM Reply   
Ahh Lavon, miss those days

Awesome, congrats Jarret!!! Great pics as well.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-21-2007, 7:55 AM Reply   
Thanks Adam! I know the miss the greatness of fighting the power-turners, fishermen, and tubers at Lavon! Yesterday we actually had the entire dam to ourselves excpet for a couple of fishermen. Who needs the river when you have Lavon!
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       10-21-2007, 2:24 PM Reply   
awesome!! if you are going to throw them out the back and you want to speed up the rotation, notice in the first and second frames your left elbow is away from the body. i try to keep the left elbow pinned to my ribs and keep most of the line loaded thru by left arm. it will whip you around a little quicker. congrats though they will start to come easier now!

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