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Old    swass            05-02-2007, 10:22 AM Reply   
I'm in the market for a digital camera. I'd like a good camera body and lens combo. I want to take closeup shots without getting in my subject's face.

What's the difference between a Nikon D80 and a D70s camera body? I found a "body only" D70s for ~$600. I also found a D80 "kit" for ~$1200, but I'd like to stay in the $800 range, if possible. We already have a decent Olympus. I want this to be our last digital still camera, so I could be talked into spending a little more if it'll meet our needs for the foreseeable future.

I pretty much know nothing (aside from "more megapixels is a good thing"). OK - tell me what to buy.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-02-2007, 10:41 AM Reply   
d80 = new line
d70 = older line

yes, more megapixel is a good thing, but is not really necessary unless you'll be submitting images to mags or printing out posters. you can definitely get away with a 6mp cam.

it really boils down to what you'll be using the cam for. family shots? action shots? portraits?
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-02-2007, 10:47 AM Reply   
Excited from the game last night and ready to start shooting!!!!!
Upload

Any restrictions with going used Swass? I know there are a lot of options there that can cut the cost of bodies.....
Old    swass            05-02-2007, 10:59 AM Reply   
Joe, are there any changes on the D80 that makes it a "must have" vs. the D70s? It'll be used for, um...taking pictures. lol. j/k Action and family stuff, mostly.

E.J. - yep, pretty much! I'd much prefer new vs. used.

The Olympus we have is OK, but there's a fraction of a second delay between when you push the button and the actual image capture. It's not much, but for action shots, it's more than enough delay to usually miss the action that you want to capture. Is this common to all digital cameras?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-02-2007, 11:06 AM Reply   
this might help.
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00IDDr

the delay is common w/ point and shoot digital cams.
Old    swass            05-02-2007, 11:51 AM Reply   
So, I can't spend more $ to make that go away? Aside from no telephoto (or not enough) that's my main complaint with the one we have now.

Would I be wasting my money on the D80?
Old    Swami (swami)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-02-2007, 12:05 PM Reply   
Shutter lag on the Canon digital SLRs are so small they aren't noticable. I push when I want it to fire off. I would expect the Nikon SLRs to do the same.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-02-2007, 12:15 PM Reply   
they are the same. lag isn't common with dslrs, but like i said, lag is common on point and shoot.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-02-2007, 12:19 PM Reply   
Swass.....like Swami says, the lag seems to be non-exsistant with the dSLR.

I went from a prosumer P&S to my 30D and it was night and day. I cannot express how happy I am with the change and results.

I think you could get a nice body, kit lens and a 70-200 f4 for a nominal amount more than you listed as a "starting" point as far as price. I'm spending your money, so I am being free with it....
Old    swass            05-02-2007, 12:24 PM Reply   
Hey, big spender.

Is the 30D a Canon? I'm seeing a 5D "system" for almost $3K. Waaaaay too much. I see a 20D "kit" for ~$1200. I don't see a 30D
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-02-2007, 1:23 PM Reply   
Yes, 30D is a Canon. Love the camera. Picked up that, the 17-85 and a little later the 70-200 2.8. Though I needed the 2.8 for hockey, sure you would be 100% fine with the f4.

Look at it this way.....you cannot put a dollar amount on the memories photographs provide....so look at it as a great investment.

I know you are not big on used, but FM has a 20D with 1K clicks for like $650....(if it has not sold).... IMO, that is stealing from the guy(assuming it is like new, which he reports it is).

20D w 18-55 = $949
20D w 17-85IS = $1400
30D w 28-135 = $1454
30D w 17-85IS = $1599

Though getting into that range, I would also take a HARD look at....
Nikon D200 w 18-135 = $1619


Let it be known that I don't know a whole lot about this stuff, I was in your position a year ago at this time.....
Old    Bill Spinuzzi (billspin)      Join Date: Aug 2004       05-02-2007, 1:31 PM Reply   
Swass, I jumped into the dslr arena last year and wish I had done it sooner. I have added a couple of lenses and flash and memory. I got the Canon 20D kit from Costco to start with. I mainly wanted it for sequence shots when boarding. Love it and would recommend it as a very good camera to produce professional looking results.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-02-2007, 1:34 PM Reply   
AntBug, Hahn, Swami, Joe, Rich Dykman, Isler, Scott A, Walt.....I could go on and on....and I am answering questions about cameras....
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-02-2007, 2:19 PM Reply   
Limited time offer with the D200 through Costco right now
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11205032&whse=BC&topnav=&brows e=

But everyone also forgets about the home computer when getting into Digital phtography. That takes you into another realm.

(Message edited by phantom5815 on May 02, 2007)
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-02-2007, 2:27 PM Reply   
Phantom, what do you think about the Costco cards?

Same camera/lens w/ 2-2GB Ultra II at Buydig.com for $80 less... That is assuming that Costco doesn't charge tax, which I assume they do...???
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-02-2007, 2:45 PM Reply   
I don't use those kit costco cards. I've used the Ultra II CF and SD cards from CCo.
My problem is that I've been using Extreme III&IV in the D200 and D80 instead

If its the same product - but cheaper I'd say go with the better deal. It would all boil down to the return policy.

(Message edited by phantom5815 on May 02, 2007)
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       05-02-2007, 6:27 PM Reply   
I think one could get by with the set-up EJ is recommending (30D,17-85 & 70-200) for a long time. The 70-200 is an excellent portrait lens with it's great background blur as well as a great sports lens, perfect for shooting wakeboarding.
Old    swass            05-03-2007, 7:20 AM Reply   
The top two contenders are the Nikon D80 and the Canon 30D. Target has a 40D, but I didn't even bother looking at it.

Holly is working this weekend, so that's the perfect time to go shopping. That's what she gets for leaving us home unsupervised.
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-04-2007, 5:17 AM Reply   
She may leave you unsupervised, but that still doesn't mean it will keep you out of the doghouse.
Old    Bill Spinuzzi (billspin)      Join Date: Aug 2004       05-04-2007, 5:56 AM Reply   
He'll eventually get out of the dog house and he will still have the new camera. And once the photos start being taken she will not be able to keep her hands off of it.
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-04-2007, 11:37 PM Reply   
40D - uh... that camera doesn't exist - yet. So I'm not sure what Target is selling.

I have the Nikon D80 and the Nikon 18-200. Great combination, but indoors with it is challenging because of the high f stop. But I throw on my nifty fifty f/1.8 and all is good.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       05-05-2007, 6:42 AM Reply   
He's talking about the Nikon D40 possibly?
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-07-2007, 7:43 AM Reply   
Yes, I assumed the D40 as well....

So Swass, did you go hold a few in your hands this weekend? Thoughts?

Unless you have a great shop locally, I find most of this stuff can be purchased for less(+ no tax) online. I overpaid mightily for my 70-200 2.8 locally due to lack of patients.
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-07-2007, 8:04 AM Reply   
Patients? You bought it at a doctor's office?
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-07-2007, 8:18 AM Reply   
pa·tient adj.

Bearing or enduring pain, difficulty, provocation, or annoyance with calmness.

Marked by or exhibiting calm endurance of pain, difficulty, provocation, or annoyance.

Tolerant; understanding: an unfailingly patient leader and guide.

Persevering; constant: With patient industry, she revived the failing business and made it thrive.

Capable of calmly awaiting an outcome or result; not hasty or impulsive.

Capable of bearing or enduring pain, difficulty, provocation, or annoyance: "My uncle Toby was a man patient of injuries" (Laurence Sterne).
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       05-07-2007, 9:25 AM Reply   
ej- I believe the word you're looking for is "patience."
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-07-2007, 9:31 AM Reply   
Yes, that is it......... Where is Swass when we need him.....to correct these things....

For the record, lens we purchased at my local money pit. Pictureline.com Great shop, but everything costs me more than I can get it at buydig.com or bhphoto.com
Old    swass            05-08-2007, 7:40 AM Reply   
Yes, I was talking about the D40.

I didn't get the chance to go shopping. There's a big camera shop in Boulder that I plan to visit so I can fondle them. Once I choose what I want, I'll order online. I've had good luck with etronics. com. Right now, I'm leaning toward the Nikon. Thanks for everyone's advice.
Old    Russell (xcharrier)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-08-2007, 11:21 AM Reply   
Swass... not sure if you're still looking but I have a Canon 20D that I've had as a backup for a couple years but it hasnt seen much use. It also has the battery grip that allows use of two batteries and vertical controls.

Are you going to be at the Mile High Meet and Greet this weekend? I can bring it for you to check out if you'd like.
Old    swass            05-08-2007, 11:41 AM Reply   
I have some sort of internal glitch that prevents me from buying used. I need to have that looked at.

I appreciate your offer, though, Russell.
Old    Russell (xcharrier)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-08-2007, 11:50 AM Reply   
Not a problem... completely understandable. But if you are going to be there Saturday you're more than welcome to take some test shots with it to see how you like the canon (there isnt too much difference between the 20D and 30D).
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-08-2007, 11:54 AM Reply   
Hey Swass-

If you haven't done so, check out www.dpreview.com Any camera you are interested in has been extensively reviewed with test shots.

P.S. You aren't the only one about the used thing. I'm the same way.
Old    swass            08-31-2007, 8:32 AM Reply   
I still don't know what I'm doing, but here's one that turned out pretty well.Upload
Old    swass            08-31-2007, 8:33 AM Reply   
Well, that looks like crap. Why is it all blurry now after resizing? It doesn't look that way in PS Pro. AAAAAARRRGH!
Old    swass            08-31-2007, 8:47 AM Reply   
OK, that's irritating the $*$#) outta me. It looks perfect until I attach it here. I blame WW.

Upload
Old    swass            08-31-2007, 8:48 AM Reply   
Still doesn't look right. Uncle.
Old    swass            08-31-2007, 9:06 AM Reply   
One more try. Andrew is #55. He plays iron man - offensive and defensive line.

Upload
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-04-2007, 9:49 AM Reply   
I always go 600 X 800 and usually a 7 quality and it will keep it "around" 150KB which is the WW limit.....

Don't know if that makes any sense.....but yea, your PS skills are showing....
Old    swass            09-04-2007, 11:10 AM Reply   
At least you looked. Thanks!

The thing that puzzles me is, they look fine in PS after resizing...until I attach them here. Yeah, I'm in IT.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-04-2007, 11:29 AM Reply   
Is that game time in the football pick?

I am assuming Andrew is tall for his age, because he sure doesn't have a OL build! Bet you are LOVING the games.

I am puzzled as to why your photos are looking crisp in PS and "off" here...???

Though God knows that I really don't know much about this stuff.....so my advice is VERY limited...
Old    swass            09-04-2007, 11:38 AM Reply   
I'm sure operator error is to blame, but I'd prefer to blame WW.

That's a pic from practice. Andrew is super tall for his age - people think he's at least 10. At 78 pounds, he's just under the "X player" limit of 85 pounds, so he's one of the bigger kids on the team - that's why he's on the O and D line. He wanted to play safety, but he inherited his dad's speed (i.e., complete lack thereof). We only have one X player. Our first game is Saturday. The team we play has four X players, so I have a feeling Andrew is going to get pushed around a bit this weekend. I am pretty dang excited to be on the sidelines cheering on my boy. Sorry - it's not hard to get me going.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-04-2007, 11:42 AM Reply   
I expect MANY pics from game one.....and improved PS skills before then....

Lacrosse started Thursday and I expect to be going through a lot of memory in the next few months..... At least I will not have the light issues I have with hockey.
Old    swass            09-04-2007, 11:45 AM Reply   
That's a big 10-4 on the former, but I can't make any promises on the latter.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       09-04-2007, 1:39 PM Reply   
Way too much compression on the bigger images, use the whole 150kb WW allows. The football kids looks very soft, out of focus - which cam are you using?
Old    swass            09-04-2007, 1:46 PM Reply   
Nikon D40. I don't remember which lens I was using. I'm using the "auto" setting - pretty much because that's all I know how to use right now.

I have the camera set at "fine" resolution and 8 x 10. Should I go smaller? I doubt if I'll ever print that large anyway.

Thanks Rich.
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-04-2007, 3:18 PM Reply   
You want to email one of us one of the pics in full res and see what we can do?

They do look pretty soft.

P.S. Auto is fine in the beginning but soon you will be shooting in at least "S" to keep the shutter speed high for the action shots. With football you will using a shutter speed around 1000 or so just to freeze the action with no blur. Soon you will realize the kit lens that came with the camera isn't quite good enough and will have to explain to the wife why you need $1700 for the 70-200 f/2.8 VR.
Old    swass            09-05-2007, 7:47 AM Reply   
I signed myself up for an "Intro to Digital SLR Photography" class so I can learn to use this thing as more than a fancy point-and-shoot.

I'll send you one A.P. They're about 2.5Mb each.
Old    Kyle (kylek306)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-05-2007, 6:50 PM Reply   
you won't regret the class, they only get more fun the more you learn, good luck!
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-09-2007, 5:56 AM Reply   
If that intro to DSLR is by Nikon, you'll leave that place with sensory overload, brain cramping and a sore butt.
Plus they'll show you the "latest and greatest" of the Nikon line.

If it's not....Never mind.
Old    swass            09-11-2007, 12:44 PM Reply   
It's not Nikon's class, but it is geared specificly to my camera.

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