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Old    derek durkin (derek23)      Join Date: Oct 2006       09-10-2007, 8:31 AM Reply   
My buddy has an 02 X-Star running between 1500 & 2000#'s and has a great wake. Recently he has gotten into surfing a lot but we both are still into wakeboarding the most. He wants to get a new boat and is heavily considering a 23' Enzo. What is your opinion on this? Is the wake on the Enzo for wakeboarding going to be a big let down? Thanks
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-10-2007, 9:38 AM Reply   
I think someone had posted pics of the wake from an enzo and the first 5 comments were something like: "Where's the wake" or "Thats the smallest wake I've ever seen"... I know it was Centurion but donno if it was enzo... with a 23' boat and a lot of weight you should be safe IMO
Old    Lance (uga33)      Join Date: Jul 2003       09-10-2007, 12:16 PM Reply   
Nick, you maybe referring to the Enzo 216 wake. From what I have seen and heard this boat requires additional ballast (sim. to the new X2). However, the 23' Enzo throws a nice wake.
Old    Ren D. (want2ridealot)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-10-2007, 12:52 PM Reply   
The enzo I ride behind has 750s in the back lockers and the wake is sweet. Wide but thats because there isn't any bow weight, so to your question no.
Old    billy foulds (mcwakerider)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-10-2007, 2:17 PM Reply   
if you are still into wakeboarding more than surfing i would consider something not so surf oriented...
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-10-2007, 2:30 PM Reply   
First 5 comments
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/493782.html?1188481566

The Enzo 230 and 240 hands down has one of the best surf wakes!

These guys have the Enzo's dialed in!
http://www.inlandsurfer.com

The Wakeboard wake depends on what your friend likes. The best bet is to go for a demo ride in a 230 or 240 you won't be disapointed
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-10-2007, 4:58 PM Reply   
Thanks, Ren. We should post your video of your 360 from last week and let people decide about the wake!! Hey, most of us Centurion owners just sit back and let the bu crowd and the MC-philes chat about their faves. But seriously, there are many nice boats/boat co.'s out there. We've had an absolute great experience with our Enzo SV230 and EVERYONE who has ridden on it has complemented the WAKEBOARDING wake (most accomplished riders have likened it to an X-star wake...blasphemy, I know). It definitely leans toward the ramp style vs. the vertical peak style, with a wide wake table. Sure the surf wake is great (still need weight for that, though), but wake is great for Boarding, too. I know I should post some pic's (I'll look). Definitely better than Kevin's pictures recently that you guys keep beating him up over. So, to answer your question...NO, he won't be disappointed in the wake. However, all boats are different. Take a demo ride for sure, to make sure you like it. Also, on the new boats, they are taking away some of the storage space for the mid-ship tanks. I personally don't like that, since we love (need) the storage. I think going with sacs in the back lockers and some weight up front (your choice) is the way to go). I'll post some pics.
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-10-2007, 5:17 PM Reply   
I'll try to post some pics here of the surf wake (750# sac in port locker):



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Yes... he saved it! It was awesome.

(Message edited by steedracer on September 10, 2007)
Old    Team CBK....Nate (cbk)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-10-2007, 5:18 PM Reply   
A very good friend of mine traded his '02 X - Star for an 06 Enzo and loves it. The wake that was posted recently was of the 216, that wake is definitely nothing like a 230 or 240. The 216 is a cross-over that caters to both sides. The 230 has a long rampy wake with a little lip at the top (depending on how it is weighted) He typically uses stock ballast (around 450 -500) and a 500lb sack. It will definitely be a different transition going from a very small narrow boat to a long wide boat. He should take one out and see what he thinks, and tell him to take his board and actually ride behind it instead of judging from the boat. Good Luck!
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-10-2007, 5:37 PM Reply   
Now , I'll try some wakeboarding pics (The boys were trying some new spins, so this was at 60' and 21 mph, except for one, which is me at 65' and 22...the one with the bad form!). Oh yeah, both 750's in the rear were short filled, so they're both around 500#'s, best guess).

This is me, at 65' and 22mph...just to show the shape of the wake (at 45 yoa, I should just stick to driving...I know!)
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Here's Ren dialing in that BS 360! Way to go!
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Here's Riley, working oh his 1w 360
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...and here's Ren, again at 60' and 21mph; At 65 & longer, there's a much nicer lip at the top.
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(Message edited by steedracer on September 10, 2007)
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-10-2007, 5:38 PM Reply   
Don't forget about the Avalanche and Typhoon as well. All great boats!
Old    Big E. (wakesetter101)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-11-2007, 5:06 AM Reply   
I dont think he will be disappointed. The Enzo is sweet. And look how much room he will gain.
Old    derek durkin (derek23)      Join Date: Oct 2006       09-11-2007, 9:24 AM Reply   
Thanks for all the info everyone. What are some other boats that are good boats for surfing and will throw a nice wake for riding?
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-11-2007, 2:43 PM Reply   
I will say don't count the AVY out.

It would depend on what you are looking for. If you are more into boarding than surfing the Avy is the best choice IMO. The wakeboardinig wake on the Enzo is a bit mushy and doesn't quite have the shape the Avy can produce. Comparitively speaking. Most hardcore boarders prefer the Avy's wake. The Avy's surf wake is also great. Just about any V-drive Centurion surf's very well. If you are looking for the best surf wake go Enzo. Throws a huge swell. Wakeboarding wake isn't quite the caliber you can get from the avy, but it throws a bigger surf wake. So all depends on which you would rather have.\ I know a ton about the Centurion line and have spent a ton of time in and behind their boats. I would own one again if the ever got their dealership issues straightened out here in IL. FOr crying out loud they fired the best rep they ever had who brought in a ton of customers. I ride behind (own)the same boat you own just a 2000. Ireally think coming off that caliber wake you'd rather want the AVY for sure. Much more comparable in the wakeboarding wake. I will also agree with Patrick. The Centurions when dialed are ver similar in shape to the Mc boats in the same size range. Their Cyclone is pretty much the same exact shape as the X-stars with just a bit more vert and kick at the top. The AVY (withc switchblade) is also very similar to the New 04 and above(pickle fork) X-star's. Again just a bit more vert and kick. Where the Mc's differ as you can throw 3000lbs and they will just keep getting bigger anf bigger. The Centurions have their limit due to their deep V's. the wake can curl if not dialed in correctly.

BTW
Love people who post about boats they know nothing about or have any experience in. Cant even get the right model down HILARIOUS


" think someone had posted pics of the wake from an enzo and the first 5 comments were something like: "Where's the wake" or "Thats the smallest wake I've ever seen"... I know it was Centurion but donno if it was enzo... with a 23' boat and a lot of weight you should be safe IMO"

(Message edited by xstarrider. on September 11, 2007)

(Message edited by xstarrider. on September 11, 2007)
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-11-2007, 3:27 PM Reply   
yeah you gotta love a post like that.
So little time sooo much wrong
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-11-2007, 7:16 PM Reply   
I just spent the 1st evening in a new Enzo 230 after 3 years in a Avalanche. Haven't got the Enzo wake optimized but we find the wake much better than we anticipated. The big differences are the Enzo has a much longer transition but retains the lip for a strong pop. The boat has less V than the Avy and the wake is much less sensitive to side-to-side weight balance. The wake is much thicker than the Avalanche. We were running with only 1600 pounds of ballast. 800 rear, 500 center tanks, and 300 front. Hole shot was very strong so we can add significant more weight without a problem. I always hesitate to post wake pics because they are so easy to critize. The only thing I can say is my son landed HS, TS 7's, TS 9, and a long list of mobes. He rides at 85 ft 23mph
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Old    Clayton Bailey (clayton_b)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-13-2007, 1:32 PM Reply   
You will be let down big time going from the X-star to the ENZO. Why do you think they use the X-star in comp. and not the ENZO.
Old    Jay Conrad (pwningjr)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-13-2007, 1:42 PM Reply   
Clayton, two words. Corporate Sponsor.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-13-2007, 2:14 PM Reply   
I don't know............... they use the Enzo in a comp as well as the Avalanche. Pull Wake Surf championships and Boardstock

Yes corporate sponsors. Just like each of top 3 brands has an event they pull so does Tige Supra/Moomba and Centurion

(Message edited by xstarrider on September 13, 2007)
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-13-2007, 3:01 PM Reply   
"Why do you think they use the X-star in comp. and not the ENZO."

This is the worst reason I have ever heard of to buy or not to buy a boat!
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-13-2007, 7:34 PM Reply   
So why not look for a boat to demo and determine if you like it?
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-14-2007, 1:31 AM Reply   
ok , if i have this right, you wakeboard and like to surf for fun, right? your bro is looking at a knew boat right? well whats the rest of the story? you dont go from an x star (v205 hull i know) to a centurion, im sorry if that is critical but you can make any boat throw a decent surf wake. its the wakeboard wake you should be critical of. why a sudden change if manufacture. what is your passion surfing or riding. is it cost? the boat? or are you just simply jumping on the wagon? there are so many boats out there and the 2 you are compairing are apples and oranges.

besides i hate these my bro wants, thinks, is, this thread is nothing without speaking to your buddy.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-14-2007, 5:20 AM Reply   
Bryan, I'd like to strongly disagree. The difference in surf wake from hull to hull can be huge.

I have an older ski hull Centurion. I work very hard to get a good surf wake. The surf wake on the Avalanche is much better and easier to make. Id love to surf an Enzo some time, I hear very good things about its surf wake. I have no time on a pickle fork X-Star surf wake, but the what Ive read on line is not great.
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-14-2007, 12:05 PM Reply   
Bryan, going from an '02 x-star to an 07/'08 Centurion Enzo is a big step UP, so I'd have to disagree with your "you just don't go from an x-star to a Centurion" comment. (Now '07 to '07, the $20k difference might be debatable). As I stated above it usually doesn't take long for a bu crew member or x-star lover to come and take a dig at our newer Centurion boats. That's why most of us just stay away from most of these threads. Like I said, there are many nice boat and boat companies out there (I love your VLX,Bryan,and wakeboard behind one often; also, just recommended one to a friend and he bought it). Malibu makes a GREAT wakeboarding boat, they just aren't the only game in town. Same with MC. In fact if you look at the number of posts on this web-site about MC and reliability issues, then what does that extra $20k+ get you? I'd command absolute bullet-proof reliability and service. As for surfing, the Enzo has a great reputation for a reason (though you do have to have some ballast back there). I think the VLX has a great surf wake (as well as the bigger 'bu's), especially using the wedge. I'd like to try a Supra 24 GG SSV. But, I'd be reluctant to say that any boat could throw a decent surf wake. Decent, maybe, but good? I also earlier stated emphatically that Derek's "buddy" should demo ANYTHING he's looking at buying. So many people don't. My $.02.
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-14-2007, 1:33 PM Reply   
sorry for the confusion, but i miss read and thought he was thinking of buying a knew boat, enzo or xstar (07-07) i was under the impression that was where this was going because he is a previous mc owner. you are right ed, i did not think about the surf wake comment enough. i just built up the surf wake last weak in my neighbors 07 avalanche. it was sick. i guess i am just more of a critic of a wake board wake than a surf wake. it seems like what ever boat im in, if we decide to surf and we have enough weight it is always a fun wake. but you can notice the difference especially when surfing behind an mb v23.
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-14-2007, 3:02 PM Reply   
Big Ed, in the picture on your profile, that is some HUGE air! What's the story, and please don't say "photoshopped" .
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-14-2007, 6:44 PM Reply   
Yeah I think Comparing the Newer pickle Fork X-Stars to the Enzo can be debated all day long. Very close to being on the same page. Both have tons of space and are similar in size. Would say the MC wake is better for boarding, but the surf wake behind the Enzo is better. Then there is the construction and the $$ debate. COuld go on and on back and forth. But going from his 02 which is the 205V version there are a ton of pro's and very few con's. Though some of the con's are huge to some just all depends on what's most important.
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-15-2007, 12:00 PM Reply   
Swatguy, well said.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-15-2007, 12:19 PM Reply   
Ditto!

I know for a lot of people it is hard to believe that anyone could go from a MasterCraft (or any fo the big 3) to a Centurion or Supra or....

It happens all the time Myself included!
Old    derek durkin (derek23)      Join Date: Oct 2006       09-17-2007, 8:13 AM Reply   
Thanks for all the advice everyone. What are some boats that are more oriented towards a boarding wake that also throw a really good surf wake. I hear the Moomba xlv is one?
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-17-2007, 10:21 AM Reply   
Derek, I have had an Avalache since 05 and got an Enzo 230 last week. My son is a very good wakeboarder and has dreams of being pro. We got the Avalanche only after serious trials and determining that it would not hold him back from progressing his dream. He is now on the Centurion Team. In deciding on a new boat this year we went to the Enzo after he spent a week on the photo shoot with the balance of the team(you can see a trailer for their upcoming video on the Alliance Wake website). The Enzo wake is different from an X-star. Nice ramp and a very solid lip for a great pop. The size can equal an x-star if you get the 5 tank ballast system. An x-star wake has a long ramp and almost no lip, making it harder to ride (trip flip inverts) than many other wakes. The Enzo surf wake is the best in the business. You will not be disappointed in the Enzo wakeboarding wake if you set it up properly.If you're anywhere near TN I'll be glad to take you out for a demo. Upload
Old    Robert Jacuzzi (bobby_hottub)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-20-2007, 7:04 PM Reply   
Pat,
You look good in the pictures, but Riley and Ren look great!! Thanks for the great recommendation to buy the VLX - we love it! We will be at Heber this weekend if you are interested in a road trip.
Old    Robert Jacuzzi (bobby_hottub)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-20-2007, 7:28 PM Reply   
Pat,
Attached are a few pictures of the new "BU" that you recommended.

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Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-20-2007, 7:31 PM Reply   
nicely done robert, nicely done.
Old    Robert Jacuzzi (bobby_hottub)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-20-2007, 8:01 PM Reply   
Thanks Bryan. I am one of those newbies who made the stern drive mistake (although it was a Cobalt) last year and now I couldn't be happier. I do miss the nice Cobalt ride, but most of our fun happens behind the boat, not in it. It was a great change for us!!
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-20-2007, 8:38 PM Reply   
Rob-Great looking boat and color scheme what kind of trailer is that? Are those nerf bars for steps around the fenders and up front?
Old    Robert Jacuzzi (bobby_hottub)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-21-2007, 3:27 AM Reply   
Thanks Tyler. It is a custom Easy Loader. The bars are steps, with treads on them. They also put some sort of moisture/light sensor on the trailer that will light the bunks for after dark to make it easier to line up at night. Never had any use for that though. I do like the 20 inch wheels for ground clearance. Thanks again for the comments. I didn't pick the color or trailer. It just came that way.

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