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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through April 04, 2003

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Old    stencil_king            02-05-2003, 9:56 AM Reply   
Ty,

Yea, thats a good point about the bilge line. Who is this Legend? A company online? Do you have any phone numbers or part numbers? Ty, how many pumps are you using in your system?

Have you have any troble with the water wanting to flow past your pump after they are filled? I thought a shut off valve at the tee would prevent this from happening. Have you clocked any fill or empty times with your system?
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 10:01 AM Reply   
I have not clocked. I went with a simer reversible 600 gph as i was into more of the convenience than the speed. It will not let water past it. Plus you can get it for about 60.00. I got the legend stuff at a local irrigation shop here. I can give you their number as I am sure they will send them to you. They are only about 5.00 each.
Old    Matt O'Dea (mattman5000)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-05-2003, 10:05 AM Reply   
My system is using a reversible pump on the raw water intake line. I can fill or drain with the engine off, at idle, or at speed, doesn't matter. If the engine is running, there is no need to force the water out of the bottom of the boat when draining, because the engine will just suck it up as soon as the ballast pump pumps it back into the line.

I don't think there would ever be problem starving the motor unless you are using a massive ballast pump.
Old    Matt O'Dea (mattman5000)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-05-2003, 10:13 AM Reply   
I also use the simer pump. Like typhoon, I did my system for convenience, not speed. It does not let water past it. I leave all my valves open all the time. It takes about 20 minutes to fill or drain three sacs, about 1200 lbs. I start pumping as soon as the boat hits the water. By the time we park the truck and motor to the riding spot, we just have a wait a few more minutes for it to fill. No fumbling with hoses, valves, or pumps. Just flip the switch and wait.

I do plan to add more sacs this year, so I think I'll have to make the system more complicated (more pumps/valves and stuff) to fill faster.
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 10:14 AM Reply   
That is what I said also...I do not see any issue but just to be safe. I cannot drain at speed as i have a scoop strainer they cause to much pressure on intake.
Old    stencil_king            02-05-2003, 10:21 AM Reply   
Ty,
Thanks! I'll watch for your posting.

Matt,
I never thought about the engine using the water, my bad! How many bags and pumps are you using within your system? Would you be able to educate me about what you've done on your system?
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 10:23 AM Reply   
I will post full pics hopefully by this weekend.
Old    Matt O'Dea (mattman5000)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-05-2003, 10:32 AM Reply   
My system is about as simple as they get. One reversable self-priming pump, a three way manifold, and three sacs. Pretty much exactly like the "system C" described in the article on this site.

http://www.wakeworld.com/Articles/2001/BallastSystem1.asp

I'll try and post some pics later.
Old    stencil_king            02-05-2003, 10:45 AM Reply   
Matt,
Thanks! I'll what for your post.
When you drain the system does the one pump perform well, thus removing all waters?
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-05-2003, 1:02 PM Reply   
OK, I've got another question to throw in the loop. Everybody I've seen use aerator pumps drain to a point above the waterline. Has anybody tried draining below the waterline? I'd like to do a quick dump below the waterline in case I get pulled over by the patrol.
Old    Matt O'Dea (mattman5000)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-05-2003, 1:15 PM Reply   
The single pump will eventually suck the sacs dry, but we usually get impatient if it is still draining when we have the boat back on the trailer. We'll just pick up the sacs and drain them over the side of the boat. All my sacs lay on the floor and I take them out of the boat when I get home anyway. Also, I think I have some air leaks in the hose connections between the manifold and the sacs, so it doesn't drain as well when there is not much water left in the bags (starts sucking air instead of water). When i first installed everything, there was much a tighter seal and it drained better. I'm going to apply some silicone to all the connections soon. It should tighten up.
Old    cws_kahuna            02-05-2003, 2:02 PM Reply   
Would something like this help create a vent tube for the sacs that only have two connections.
https://www.flow-rite.com/store/images/products/large/poa-lg.gif

I can kinda see how it would create a third line to add the vent but I am not sure how you would tie this into the system without having water run through both lines.

(Message edited by cws_kahuna on February 05, 2003)
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 2:55 PM Reply   
I think you would be better off using a t as I think it would have less resistence than that. Intersting though.
Old    hippie_killa            02-05-2003, 7:02 PM Reply   
David I would not listen to the guy I bought my malibu from. That is only if you want to know how to put bondo in hole in the trailer and paint over it.He could also tell you how to pass off a rotten floor as a solid one. I would not take his advice on ballast systems his sucked I just had to do it all over. If you need some advice send me an e-mail
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-05-2003, 10:56 PM Reply   
That bass turd!! I really do not care for dishonest people. Thanks for the warning though. I was planning on putting a plastic tank under the bow, and a couple of small sacs in the rear cubby holes that are located at the side of the gas tank in the back.

I'd be interested in knowing what you're doing to turn yours into a good system. I chatted with another guy who rebuilt a Malibu from the ground up. He showed me some pictures of some cavities under the wood floor that run from the back of the boat up to about the middle of the boat. He said he could get 600 lb in those two cavities. Just a thought if you have to replace the floor, it might be an idea. If you're interested, I could dig up the website when I'm at work tomorrow and pass it along to you.
Old    oldschool            02-06-2003, 6:51 AM Reply   
Bruce sucks. You should see his dashboard. Plus his ballast leaks all over the place. Luckily I was there to fix it. HAHA

I had to dude. :-)

CWS Kahuna, I don't think that device from Flow-Rite will help. The vent on the fat sack really isn't that big of a deal. But itneeds to be on the top of the sack, that is the dilema.
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-12-2003, 12:19 PM Reply   
Craig,

When you installed the scupper unit, what did you do for screwing it to the hull? Did you use inserts, or nuts on the back side, or did you just thread the fasteners directly into the fiberglass?

I wanted to try putting a scupper under my drain port, but it is directly behind one of my fins on the bottom. I'm not sure how well it would work with the fin in the way.
Old    oldschool            02-12-2003, 1:50 PM Reply   
I installed it by drilling some small holes and places stainless steel screws right in with some sealer of course.

You may be able to file or grind it a bit to fit around the skegs (fins)(whatever they are called). I had to file mine down a bit on the side to get it over the thru-hull fitting.

The scupper is sweet though. It makes it fill VERY FAST!
Old    byazn            02-12-2003, 2:53 PM Reply   
Craig

Who makes the Rule pumps that you are using?

Also I am sure I speak for everyone on this thread, thanks a ton for all of the great info!!!

Brandon
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2003, 3:26 PM Reply   
Brandon,

Rule makes the Rule pumps..
Old    byazn            02-12-2003, 3:36 PM Reply   
WOW!!! That was not so tough!! Thanks Jason, I asked cause I did a search on google and nthing came up. Any clue where I could pick them up online? Thanks

Brandon
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2003, 3:39 PM Reply   
You can buy them at http://www.west-marine.com. Rules website is http://www.rule-industries.com/. :-)
Old    byazn            02-12-2003, 3:45 PM Reply   
Thanks Jason!!!

Brandon
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2003, 3:46 PM Reply   
No problem, glad I could help.
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-13-2003, 8:01 PM Reply   
VERY FAST is what I want to hear!!

I second Brandon's thanks to everybody here.
Old    erlingl            02-13-2003, 9:18 PM Reply   
i have an i/o and considering putting in watersacks. the boat is a 20ft crownline 202. what sakcs would be best and where should i place them to get biggest/solidest wake.
Old    jmccallum            02-14-2003, 6:39 AM Reply   
I have an 18' four winns.
I have about 750 lbs in the ski locker, 350 in the bow, and I trim up the motor.
Old    coachsambo            02-14-2003, 11:27 AM Reply   
Craig, what size tubing did you buy. I am going to do the same thing you did on my supra. Is there a way I can make the connections a little more manual instead of buying the flow-rite stuff.like if i put in a manual shut off valve for the front ballat and one for the rear. so it will divert the water to each ballast. I think I can hook up a pump to empty the front sack, but did you hook up the wires to the current switches, can you specify how. Any help will be great, Sam
Old    JK (xbrdr1)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-14-2003, 1:00 PM Reply   
I picked these up at my local Sprinkler store for $12 each. (2400)http://www.irritrolsystems.com/valves/2400_2600.html

They work with 12vdc, and they work in reverse. You simply run your self-priming in reverse, and 'close'/'shut off' the valve and it 'opens in reverse'.
Old    jmccallum            02-14-2003, 1:53 PM Reply   
What king of thru opening do they have? Are they restrictive like other sprinkler vales?

Also globe valves aren't usually supposted to work both ways. Perhaps they do in this application becuase the pressure is low.
Old    JK (xbrdr1)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-14-2003, 4:29 PM Reply   
1" opening both ways...
Old    oldschool            02-17-2003, 6:52 AM Reply   
That's a lot of restriction right there. The flow-rite valves are a straight shot right through.

This is the last post I am making, because obviously no one is listening. If you are going to be a cheap ass and get your stuff at Home Depot, go for it. But you will be the one waiting on the water for your ballast to fill.

If you don't understand the flow-rite valves, go to www.flow-rite.com and read the documentation. Its obvious some people are asking questions before they check out the site.

Sam, the flow rite are manual valves, did you look at the site? If you did, you would also know the valves are 3/4".
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-17-2003, 5:08 PM Reply   
the only benefit i see of Flow-Rites over regular $5 PVC 3/4" ball valves is the remote actuation.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-17-2003, 5:09 PM Reply   
which would be sweet, BTW. :-)
Old    clint            02-18-2003, 11:52 AM Reply   
Two questions.

1) I see the merit of some kind of remote-controlled valve but prefer something electrical I can tie to the same switch as my pump to make a truly automatic system. The lowest rated sprinkler valve I can find is rated at a max of 18 gpm which would be 1080 gph. If I spend the $ to put one of these on each sac, is there any way that this kind of valve can restrict flow?

2) Malibu is using some kind of solenoid-operated valve on their new factory systems. Anyone know which valve they're using and where they're putting it?
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-18-2003, 6:26 PM Reply   
Craig,

Where did you get the 1 1/8" T? I cannot find anything at Lowes or Home depot that is that size. I have all the parts but need to connect the Rule 2000 into something to convert to 3/4".
Old    Jim Bogden (bog)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-18-2003, 6:38 PM Reply   
Jason, I dont know if this will help your exact situation but i was able to get 1" hose to fit the 1 1/8 of the rule. Then you could use a 1" - 3/4" barb fitting
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-18-2003, 6:51 PM Reply   
That's good news Jim. Both sides of the pump are 1 1/8 correct?
Old    Jim Bogden (bog)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-19-2003, 10:35 AM Reply   
not the rule 2000 i have (207F) , intake is 1" and output is 1 1/8
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-19-2003, 11:35 AM Reply   
Ok, thanks, I wasn't sure.
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-19-2003, 7:08 PM Reply   
Where are people buying their Rule 2000s, and for how much?

I've checked ebay, and all they seem to have are bilge pumps.
Old    Jim Bogden (bog)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-20-2003, 11:00 AM Reply   
boatersoutlet.com shows them but was out of stock when I called. My dealer got me one from their distributor. 99 bucks

(Message edited by bog on February 20, 2003)
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-20-2003, 12:16 PM Reply   
That's a fair price. Thanks for the info Jim.

Sweet looking invert you've got in your profile.
Old    oldschool            02-20-2003, 12:53 PM Reply   
Jason, I got the 1 1/8" T Fitting at West Marine. Although, I am running 3/4" hose. I had to "knock down" the size right after the T fitting. I was worried about restriction, but then I looked at the intake on the pump, it's not very large. 3/4" hose should be fine.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-20-2003, 1:50 PM Reply   
Thanks craig, I went ahead and just put the 1" host onto the 1 1/8 fitting and then got a Tee that went from 1x3/4x3/4. That fixed it for me. I bought my rule pump from West Marine for $124 but they had them in stock (that was more important to me)than having to wait.
Old    chris_hargis            02-20-2003, 2:05 PM Reply   
Boater's World has the Rule 2000 GPH aerator pumps for $94.99

Here's the link.

http://www.boatersworld.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&catalogId=10051&langI d=-1&productId=326182
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-21-2003, 12:49 PM Reply   
We've gone down $5 from the last bid of the Rule 2000. Do I hear $89.99? Anyone, anyone?
Old    byazn            02-22-2003, 6:12 PM Reply   
I don't understand how the Rule pump works. There is only one port comming off of the pump. So my question is where do the water go into the pump and where does it some out?

Thanks
Brandon
Old    byazn            02-22-2003, 6:23 PM Reply   
never mind I was looking at the bilge pumps. Sorry

Brandon
Old    Daniel Bragg (twowakes)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-23-2003, 8:48 PM Reply   
I am looking for the best pump for filling and emptying.I have about 1200lbs to fill/empty.I would like to do this in about 15 min.I do know that simer makes a 600gph and a 1380gph.I am leaning toward the 1380gph,but i have had no experiencewith these pumps.If I could get some feed back on how well they drain it would help.I do not want to have to pull out my sacks every time i use them to drain them.
DB

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