Articles
   
       
       
Pics/Video
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WAKE WORLD HOME
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through April 04, 2003

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    wallyworld (wallyworld)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-11-2003, 10:58 AM Reply   
Hey I am trying to figure out the best pump to use for a ballast system filling and draining through my drain hole. I am going to fill about 1100 lbs in 3 sacks. Can I use the Rule 3800 for both filling and emptying or do I need to use the water puppy to be able to reverse it? I like the idea of the Rule because it should be faster. Let me know what pump would be the best!
thanks!!!
Old    captfaceplant            01-11-2003, 4:40 PM Reply   
I know how you feel dude!! I have been back and forth, up and down, and side to side on this issue. I have probably changed my mind on the ideal system at least three times a day for the past three months!! NO LIE!!! I have finally calculated out how much the pumps are, all the proper valves, the amperage draw that comes with the self primers, the backflow problems associated with aerator pumps, the slower speed of the self-primers, the one-way and location problems with the aerators, and the conclusion for ME and MY boat are to just break out the cash for a Make-a-Wake system. They are tried and tested, they give great advice for setting up your system, they are easy to "do-yourself", and with the seven systems they have to choose from, you should be able to find one that is a nice balance between speed, budget, and convenience!!
I am pretty sure I'll be getting the MVII It will fill and drain 1000lbs. in about 10 minutes, and you could get remote fill and drain capabilities for another $45, and leave the valves set as they are. Another reason I am going with this system is that I could add the RCII later and basically make the system an RCIII(or close to it!!) if speed ever became an issue. But when my neighbor reminded me the last time we were out it took roughly 45 minutes to fill only about 400lbs.(4 waterbed tubes) using an aerator pump from walmart, and some garden hoses(verrrrry getto!!), and believe it or not it wasn't even that bad(how sick is that!!), i guess I was just so stoked that we finally had a boat and unloaded the PWC's and were on vacation the time just flew by(felt like about 10 minutes. Anyhow when you compare what I put up with manually filling, with the convenience of flipping a switch on the dash with more than double the amount of water, and less than 1/4 the time, I'll be in ballast heaven!!! Sorry for the long rant but that's the direction I personally will be going, something else may be better for YOU and YOUR boat!! Take care...out!
Old    rob (98air)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-12-2003, 12:52 AM Reply   
I'm right there with you. I have been back and forth with my system on my '98 air and have basically gonna wait until my wife says it's okay to get the "make a wake" or similar system for the ballast. I could have something made for the aerator pumps that would be very fast, but when I thought about having to explain to everyone who sits in the driver's seat how to fill and empty the thing...I give up. It would be most easiest for anyone to flip a switch for ballast and even better to have cruise for a driver. So now gotta wait for okay for cruise and ballast system
Old    JKW (jwat142)      Join Date: Jan 2002       01-12-2003, 10:34 AM Reply   
It is very easy to make a system like make-a-wake. All make-a-wake includes in their system is the pump, switch, and valves as far as I know. I made my own and spent under a hundred bucks. The biggest part is finding a good deal on a pump. I just happen to get an awesome deal on a Jabsco ballast pump on ebay for under $60 and it was brand new. But the rest of the valves and stuff is just PVC pipe, it's really not that hard.
Old    captfaceplant            01-12-2003, 2:16 PM Reply   
Justin, what jabsco pump did you get? How many gallons per minute? That was the reason I am thinking of just getting the make-a-wake, their pump is 12gpm, and the basic water puppy is only 8 gpm. I am pretty mechanically inclined, and realize that their system would be very simple to duplicate, but two things hold me back.
#1 The pump they use is faster than any I have been able to find.
#2 I don't quite feel right about duplicating their system, when they did all the brain work on it already. (Am I just too nice or too stupid??)
The only other thing I thought of doing was to buy two simer blue water pumps, and run them in parallel to double the input and output, and just use manual valves with a remote switch on the dash run off of a 12v relay(because of the high amperage).
Another cool thing I thought of was to run a fat sack in the walkway of my open bow as a dual purpose over/counter weight for the rear. That way I wouldn't have to drill any overflow holes in my boat, just watch for water going into the bow sack, let it fill and flip the switch off!!
Old    captfaceplant            01-12-2003, 2:18 PM Reply   
oops...
I meant to say: "overflow/counterweight".
Old    WPS (wpstevenson)      Join Date: May 2002       01-12-2003, 6:07 PM Reply   
Jamie

Thanks for the good comments about our systems. When your ready to get one just let us know we will be gald to help. Justin had e-mailed the company months ago acting as if he was interested in buying a system. He continued asking questions about the system, what kind of relays, what valves, what pumps. I finally gave him the retail prices for all the parts to make the system he said he was interested in and it was $10 more than you can buy an assembeled tested system from us with warranty. Since we are an OEM for the pump companies and valve manufacturer we get really good prices, that's how we make are money. Justion said he made one for under $100? The RCII has two pumps $180 and $220 retail, two relays $18 each, PVC box $32, switches, terminals fittings, wire anyway you get the point. Ya he built a system like ours for less than $100. Our two fastest pumps are not even made by Jabsco. The pump we use on our fast single pump system retails for $277. I guess I should stop now.

Anyway Jamie thanks again for your comments. I guess there will always be people like Justin and Ty. Hey guys I have saved all the e-mails you sent asking details of how our systems work and asking for part numbers and manufactures names.

Bill
Old    JKW (jwat142)      Join Date: Jan 2002       01-12-2003, 6:15 PM Reply   
Make-a-Wake,
I am really sorry if I sounded like I was putting down your system. I really was looking into your system and the only info I got from you was the prices and such. I'm sure you have a great product and company, I just happen to find a good deal on a pump on ebay and decided to give it a try myself. It worked out great for me, but for others it may not. I was just giving people suggestions because that is what they were asking for. Again, sorry if I sounded negative toward your company, you were very nice and had great customer service when I was inquiring about your system.
Jamie,
I don't know the model number of the pump right at this time. My boat is stored 45 minutes away at the lake I go to and I probably won't see it for a month or two. I fill about 1000 lbs. in under 10 minutes.
Old    wallyworld (wallyworld)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-13-2003, 1:15 PM Reply   
okay, if I want to use one Rule 1500 for filling and one 1500 for draining can I just run them on the same line? Will the water just flow through the one not in use? Or do I have to tee one of on another line and then tie it together before the drain hole???
Old    oldschool            01-15-2003, 1:46 PM Reply   
You have to have separate fill and drain lines.

I have re-designed my system 3 times, and finally have it right! This is what i have:

1 Rule 2000 pump under the water line (connected to a thru-hull fitting on the bottom of the boat) pumping water in to one tank and one fat sack. The pump comes out into a "T" fitting. At each branch of the T fitting it a flow-rite valve. One valve controls water being pumped to the front sack, and one valve controls water being pumped to the back tank. The cool thing with these valves is that they also act as check valves. They do not let water back through the pump after I shut it off.

I have 1 Rule 2000 pump for an empty on the back tank. It empties through a thru-hull fitting on the boat.

Then there is one more Rule 750 pump on the front sack which also empties through a thru-hull fitting in the boat.

The sack in the front is placed upside down in the ski locker (Supra). There are two connections on the sack. While upside down, the front connection is where the water comes in. On the back connection, the pump is connected right into it. This way the pump is already primed because the sack is lying on it, and forcing water in.

On the dash you see 1 fill switch which also toggles down to empty the rear tank. An empty switch for the front sack. Then on the side of the dash are the two Flow-Rite controls to open and close the two valves back at the pump.

I hope this helps you decide what you need. You have to keep in mind that if you do not have a check valve in some places the water may flow right back out of the Rule pump into the sea.

You can get flow-rite stuff at www.flow-rite.com If you don't see what you need, call them. I had to, they told me they had a valve that would work and was not listed in the online shop.
Old    supraboarder            01-15-2003, 3:49 PM Reply   
Craig doesn't know what he's talking about at all... don't listen to him... JK his ballast system is SWEET. I'm about to start copying it this spring because of how clean it is.
Old    wallyworld (wallyworld)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-15-2003, 4:50 PM Reply   
craig, what about this for a two pump system with one manifold and one thru hull. Cant I just use ball valves to close the line to the pump not in use to prevent back flow? Look at this diagram and tell me if it would work, thanks!!!
Old    wallyworld (wallyworld)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-15-2003, 4:52 PM Reply   
here is the diagram....
ballast
Old    oldschool            01-16-2003, 8:21 AM Reply   
Looks like a good deal to me. That is a great idea to put the self priming pump for the draining. That will be strong enough to force water back out. The only thing I wouldn't like is the ball valves. They work great, and have no restriction, but I like to do it all from the dash. It's a personal preference.

Your system will definitely work well. You may need to prime the Rule 2000 when you start pumping in. I have that same pump, and I prime it by turning it on and running the boat at 10-15 mph. I am thinking of adding this small piece to the thru-hull fitting on the bottom of the boat to scoop water in even better.:http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=80046&catalogId=10001& classNum=71&subdeptNum=70&storeNum=11

Scoop

This is the fitting on have on the bottom of the boat now, and the scoop will cover it. You may be able to do the same with your drain hole.

Fitting

Shawn, I am ready to ride! My buddy Bruce just got a 91 Malibu that he is hooking up right now: New Floor, New Carpet, Tower, New Stereo, New Graphics, New ballast system. So now there will be 2 boats in the crew to ride behind. I will probbaly be back out there in March, and my boat will be ready!
Old    wallyworld (wallyworld)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-16-2003, 9:32 AM Reply   
Craig, thanks for your help!! Eventually I want to make it fully automatic but for budget and time constraints, I will do this for now. Wish me luck!!
Old    Tony Neal (aneal000)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-16-2003, 10:24 AM Reply   
Just a question? How do you know when they are full? I have looked at the way Malibu does their factory MLS in the floor, they actually bring the fill hose up into the dash to create a natural trap to prevent the water from flowing back out into the lake, but they also put a Y in their and run it out to a thru hull fitting, so when the sack gets full it pumps it out the side of the boat so you know it is full and doesn't overfill the bags and stress the hull. Just curious how you guys handle this.
Old    danno            01-16-2003, 10:42 AM Reply   
Tony - good idea. I'll have to add that to the drawing.
Craig - here's a sketch of my interpretation of your description.

Comments?
Old    jmccallum            01-16-2003, 12:13 PM Reply   
Looks good. I think I'll be changing my system to look pretty much like your proposal. I have a self primer I'll probably use to suck the sacs flat during emptying.
Old    clint            01-16-2003, 1:38 PM Reply   
Dan, how about a Tee followed by two Rule 1100s for fill. One for front and one for back. Two 1100s will be about the same cost as one 2000 and from what I understand pump way faster than the 2000 compared to 2 x 1100 = 2200 would make you think.
Old    danno            01-16-2003, 9:13 PM Reply   
One advantage of using just one for fill is that there is only one dash switch. Since the two "tanks" are significantly different sizes, when the small one is filled, the resistance on that line goes up and more flow would presumably go to the other tank to finish filling it faster.

If you use two smaller pumps than you would need two switches, since, as mentioned, the first tank would finish filling first. That might not be a big deal, since you need two to empty anyway, but also after the first is filled you finish filling the larger bag/tank with a smaller pump than you would with the 2000.

For the record, I haven't built this system yet either. For me, it's still in the planning/academic stages. I guess one "up-side" is that by purchasing a number of smaller pieces of hardware, the expense is easier to hide from your spouse. :-) (just kidding dear.... sort of.)
Old    tlk            01-16-2003, 9:15 PM Reply   
Where can I find the remote control valves, I looked all around but cannot find 12 volt valves just 24 volt
Old    oldschool            01-17-2003, 5:47 AM Reply   
Todd, the 24V valves will work on the 12V system, but let me tell you there will be some very serious restriction there. Have you looked at the hole water must travel through on those things? It's very tiny. Flow-rite is the only way to go for remote control valves.

Tony, the only easy way to know when they are full is to look at them. Because fat sacs only have two openings, there is no way to port a vent tube...which is the ideal way. I have seen putting hooking on ground switched for the sac to hit and turn a light on the dash when it's full. That is always an option.

Dan, you are pretty much right on with those sketches, except I have not yet put a safety seacock on the through hull. That will be added though.

I forgot to mention. With the 2000 Rule pump, both ballast are full in about 12 minutes. Both completely empty in about 6-7 minutes.
Old    Tony Neal (aneal000)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-17-2003, 6:56 AM Reply   
Craig, thanks for the response, last year I put two "side sacks" under the front seats on my VLX and I did just that- watched them. However every once in a while the switch would get turned on by accident and 5 min later my front seats would be bulging up! Scared the He!! out of me a few times when they got, lets just say overfilled! This year I was thinking about doing what Malibu does, but I was concerned about the trade off of the extra hose adding resistance which decreases the flow rate. For some reason Malibu dosen't seem to have a problem with it, so I think I am going to try. I will let you know.
Old    oldschool            01-17-2003, 10:11 AM Reply   
Tony, that has happened to me once, and unfortunately I feel it has cracked the floor in my boat slightly. I have now a small 8 inch long slight bump in my carpet near the ski locker. But I do think that was there before I hooked up the ballast. But you did bring up a good point. You have to be VERY careful when filling sacks.

Like I mentioned earlier you can put a small light on your dash, similar to those you see on a car alarm (red LED). Put positive power to the LED. Then run the grouding cable to a pin switch right above the fat sack. Then ground the pin. When the sack fills it will push the pin up causing it to ground, therefore completing the circuit on the light and illuminating the LED. I will most likely be doing this to my system.

After I get all these flow-rite valves installed I'll get some pics posted. Most likely next weekend.
Old    danno            01-17-2003, 10:41 AM Reply   
"With the 2000 Rule pump, both ballast are full in about 12 minutes. Both completely empty in about 6-7 minutes."

I like that. Thanks Craig.
Old    oldschool            01-17-2003, 11:10 AM Reply   
Dan, one thing to keep in mind. With the scoop hull fitting on the bottom of the boat, that will also force water into the ballast by just flowing right past the pump. My friend can almost fill his entire fat seat just by opening his fill valve, pump not on, and drive along to the riding spot.
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       01-17-2003, 12:29 PM Reply   
I second craig's statement. I have a scoop fitting to prime my pump. The scoop will fill both sacs if I do not have the valves to the sacs shut off.
Old    danno            01-17-2003, 1:04 PM Reply   
what can you tell us about the flow-rite valve (that's not listed on their online shop)? I assume it's just a simple open/close or empty/fill valve. Do you know the dimensions? What was the cost? Do they primarily sell direct to consumer?
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-17-2003, 1:05 PM Reply   
I have a quick question and it may be a stupid one, but how is it draining out the bottom of the boat? In mine I have it T-eed into the bilge line for draining? I like your setup alot, but was just curious about that issue.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-17-2003, 1:26 PM Reply   
....also, does anyone know the Jabsco part number for that pump in the drawing? Thanks
Old    jmccallum            01-17-2003, 1:45 PM Reply   
Re "Car Alarm" for sac full. Is your sac full?

This is a pic of my ski locker sac full.


The is a view inside the locker (just under driver side -forward corner) showning the push button switch used to trigger the "sac full" alarm.



P.S. Please, no jokes like "I know my sac is full when it runs down my leg"

P.P.S. I use the blue deck mesh to protect the sac when I put my board into the ski locker for storage.
Old    oldschool            01-17-2003, 2:08 PM Reply   
Dan, the Flow-Rite valves are open-close. But more than that. When they are open, they are wide open...no flapper's in the path, just wide open. When the valve is closed, water cannot move on either side of the valve. Which means, no check valves needed. You can purchase from them direct. It will cost you about $100 to get two valves, with cabling, and actuators (switches). Well worth it! It's the same stuff that comes factory on MC and CC now.

Jason, when you have it T-d into the bildge, does water pump out the boat and also back down into the bildge? Or do you have a check valve on both lines to make sure this does not happen? This was my concern, that is why I put another thru-hull fitting above the water line to pump water out.

I do not have any water pumping out the bottom of the boat, but it is possible. If you have a strong self-priming pump it can be done.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-17-2003, 3:09 PM Reply   
Craig,
I have a ball valve to prevent the water from draining back into the Bilge area. So far no problems as of yet.
Old    wallyworld (wallyworld)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-20-2003, 5:41 PM Reply   
jason, the pump i am going to use is the jabsco macerator pump 18590-1000 Pump Macerator Heavy Duty 12V. It will pump 12 GPM and is self priming. Normally used for pumping out poop!
Old    wallyworld (wallyworld)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-20-2003, 5:42 PM Reply   
oh i forgot to mention, it goes for 99 bucks at west marine.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-21-2003, 10:16 AM Reply   
Thanks, I will have to check it out.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-23-2003, 9:09 AM Reply   
Hey Wallyworld, when did you buy it for $99? It is now listed for $129 at http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=72974


Thanks for the info.
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-23-2003, 9:17 AM Reply   
i got the simer reversible 600 gph for 60.00 if you are interested i can get you the number.
Old    wallyworld (wallyworld)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-23-2003, 10:21 AM Reply   
well, they had the 1000 at my local west marine for 99 the difference between the two is the other one has the run dry protection which mine says in the instructions it has limited run dry protection so i didnt think the other one was worth the cash. I think it is a clearance item though. I hope you can find it!
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2003, 12:47 PM Reply   
What type of hoses are you using for your Ballast System? Also, how are you connecting into you bags? Are you just using the waterbed connector and screwing it on or something more sophisticated?

Thanks, sorry so many questions.
Old    oldschool            01-27-2003, 2:19 PM Reply   
I use the clear stuff with the thread in it from Home Depot. The only complaint I have is that it kinks if it is bent to hard around a corner.

I am connecting mine with the water bed attachment. The only way I have seen to do it.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2003, 5:51 PM Reply   
Craig, you don't happen to have a diagram of your design do you? I am trying to re-design mine based on your setup. I have a Fat seat in the back and two side sacs under the front bow seats. I would like to fill the front sacs with one pump and the fat seat with another pump and somehow be able to incorporate the flowrite valves. If the flow rite valves have 1 in and 1 out how do you use those when it comes to draining? or do you? All of my sacs have multiple holes so I don't have an issue of having to use the same line to fill and drain. Any help would be great. Thanks
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2003, 6:26 PM Reply   
Sorry for Double post... System wouldn't let me edit the above post.

Craig, you don't happen to have a diagram of your design do you? I am trying to re-design mine based on your setup. I have a Fat seat in the back and two side sacs under the front bow seats. I would like to fill the front sacs with one pump and the fat seat with another pump and somehow be able to incorporate the flowrite valves. All of my sacs have multiple holes so I don't have an issue of having to use the same line to fill and drain. I thought about using one rule 2000 or something less to fill the front bags and 1 rule 2000 to fill the fat seat. Then for draining I see a couple of options, 1. use a self-priming pump for the front and one for the fat seat. 2. Use one Rule 750 per each front bag and a 1 rule 750 to drain the rear. One concern I have is can I hook both front rule 750's up to the same switch since they will both be draining at the same time? Any help would be great. Also, my bank account wouldn't really like the the idea of buying 2 Jabsco pumps at $129 each either.

P.S where is everyone getting there rule pumps from? I have a west-marine locally but wasn't sure if they had somewhat of the best prices.

Thanks,

JT
Old    Jim Bogden (bog)      Join Date: Sep 2002       01-27-2003, 8:02 PM Reply   
which rule are you looking for? the 2000 (207F) is on boatersoutlet.com for 99 bucks. They didnt have any a couple weeks ago but said they were getting them by the end of January. The other rule pumps I found the local shops like west were almost the same price as the net when you include shipping
Old    oldschool            01-28-2003, 5:57 AM Reply   
Ok, I finally did it :-) I got off my lazy butt and layed out a diagram. Here you guys go...

Ballast
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-28-2003, 7:04 AM Reply   
Jim, yes I think that is the pump I am needing. Is it possible to hook up two pumps to the same switch without blowing it? Thanks Craig for the drawing, that helps. Which Flow-rite valves did you get? Do you have any issues with the Rule 750 not priming?
Old    oldschool            01-28-2003, 8:53 AM Reply   
No issues with the Rule 750 priming because I have the fat sack lying on it. Gravity forces the water in.

The valves I got from Flow Rite were not listed on the website. They are almost like the System 1 Open/Close valves but the close has an added spring. I called the number on their site and the guy hooked me up with BCV1 (Ballast Control Valve). I guess that is the part number.

I believe you can hook both pumps up to the same switch. Just have the switch controlling the ground. That is how I hooked mine up. You may want separate switches for everything though.

Does anyone know of a three-holed fat sack? It would be nice to place a vent on one.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-28-2003, 9:25 AM Reply   
Ok, I promise, last question. The discharges off of the Rule 2000 are 1 1/8" but the hole on the sac is 3/4. What are you using for the conversion? Are the valves 1 1/8" on one side and 3/4 on the other? This is the last piece of my puzzle.
Old    jmccallum            01-28-2003, 9:49 AM Reply   
Craig,

What size are the ports on the BCV1 (Ballast Control Valve)?
Old    jmccallum            01-28-2003, 9:51 AM Reply   
Does the BCV1 include the controls? If not what part number were they and how long were the leads?

Thanks,

P.S. I'm planning to upgrade my system this spring.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-28-2003, 9:59 AM Reply   
James, I just talked to Flow rite, the Ports on the BCV1 are 3/4 on both sides. The BCV1 does not include control, however you can purchase them from there web site, they are called Actuators, plus you need the cable which comes in increments of 6-17 feet depending on you application. Here is the link... http://www.flow-rite.com/store/marine2/retail/default.htm

I am assuming Craig that your T after the pump is 1 1/8 on the pump side and 3/4 on the bag sides. Is that correct?
Old    oldschool            01-28-2003, 10:27 AM Reply   
Close. The pump was 1 1/8", the T fitting after the pump is 1 1/8", then right after the T I put a couple of connectors that would reduce it to 3/4" going into the Flow-Rite valves.

As for Flow-Rite. I had to buy 2-Valves, 2-Actuators, and 2-Cables (12' and 13'). This cost me $119.

(Message edited by oldschool on January 28, 2003)
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-28-2003, 11:55 AM Reply   
Thanks for your help everyone. I will see about getting this stuff ordered and Installed within a few weeks.
Old    oldschool            02-03-2003, 9:45 AM Reply   
I finally got to test my flow-rite valves and scoop fitting on put the system. The entire ballast filled in under 4 minutes.
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-03-2003, 9:48 AM Reply   
VERY AWESOME
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-03-2003, 9:48 AM Reply   
So you didn't have any problem with the back pressure filling up the Rear tank once the front bag was filled?
Old    oldschool            02-03-2003, 2:12 PM Reply   
No problems at all. Dude, I could not believe it was finished just from riding from the dock to our spot. It is no longer than 4 minutes. I actually had to keep an eye on the fat sack to make sure it didn't over flow, and bro, that thing was filling faster than anything I have ever seen!

I am used to filling one at a time...not now. I open both flow-rite vavles at once and WHAM, it's done.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-03-2003, 2:17 PM Reply   
Very cool, I ordered the valves, pumps and thru-hull fittings last Friday, they should be here this week hopefully.
Old    danno            02-03-2003, 2:19 PM Reply   
Since there is no valve on the drain pumps, wouldn't the drains just start to overflow when the tanks are full? When you are pumping water all the way through and out the drains, shut off the fill pump, close the valves and maybe even run the drain pumps for 15 seconds or whatever length of time if they are "overfull." I'm just guessing here, but I think the overflow drains would prevent overfilling the sacks/tanks.
Old    BeeTL (ofwc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-03-2003, 2:29 PM Reply   
Fly-High make three vent sacks, and Let's-Go-Ride will custom build them as well.

Drain/Fill/Vent is the way to go!
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-03-2003, 2:34 PM Reply   
lets go ride will make any configuration you want and you havae a choice between 3/4" or 1".
Old    stencil_king            02-03-2003, 7:55 PM Reply   
Craig,

Do you have any part numbers for the items you had purchased from Flow-Rite? Valves, actuators..
Old    oldschool            02-03-2003, 8:15 PM Reply   
Dan, the problem with the fat sack is it will darn near blow up and crack the hull before it forces water out of the empty pump. This is because the empty pump is laying underneath the sack when it is full. The ideal would be to have a vent tube coming off the top of the sack. I will have to check out Let's-Go-Ride.

Aaron, here are the items I ordered from Flow-Rite:
2 - Open/Closed Actuators Item# MC-3-01-100a
1 - 12' cable Item#MA-CBL-12
1 - 13' cable Item#MA-CBL-13
2 - Ballast control valves Item# BCV-F100

That's what's on the invoice, but I must say the website shopping does not have the Ballast Control Valves listed. You must call to arrange purchasing them. They had me order the Open/Closed System 1 valves and then they manually changed it to BCV's on their end.
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-04-2003, 11:59 AM Reply   
Craig,

I think your system is the best I've seen yet. I think I'll build one like yours but with the extra sack vent previously mentioned. I've heard that Launch Pad makes a scoop that is really supposed to increase waterflow (not that you need it iwth 4 minutes) but the thread never mentioned how to get a hold of one.

Couple of questions- How many pounds are in your front sack and rear tank? What's your drain time? Also, you mentioned a friend of yours was adding ballast to a 1991 Malibu. Could you tell me where? I've got a few ballast spots located for mine, but they're all pretty small. Was wondering where they would be putting it.

Thanks.
Old    oldschool            02-04-2003, 2:01 PM Reply   
David,

The scoop I bought was from West Marine. I already had a regular thru-hull fitting, and I just added the scoop around it. It was only 4 bucks.

The weight of the tank I believe is around 400, and the front sack around 450-500. The drain time is probably about 8 minutes. Mostly because I am waiting for the front sack to empty through the 750gph Rule, it could be bumped up and made faster, but 8 minutes isn't killing me.

My friend has a Malibu F3 Euro Skier 195. It came with a homemade tank up front. Basically a wood box lined with fiberglass. I would say it takes up almost the entire front of the boat and holds about 350-400 lbs. The rear ballast is a fat seat, that thing is a monster. I would say it holds well over 600 lbs. His boat drives pretty sluggish with this much weight though, so be prepared! Perfect Pass will be needed next!
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-04-2003, 5:23 PM Reply   
Craig,

Thanks for the info. I had talked to the guy who your friend bought the Malibu from. I was planning on adding ballast up front like he did.

A thought for your friend's Malibu- I was planning on putting some ballast in the rear cubby holes at the sides of the gas tank. They'll be small bags, but they're at least something. Your friend might want to add some there also.
Old    stencil_king            02-04-2003, 8:01 PM Reply   
Give me your thoughts on this system that is still just a drawing in my mind. Thinking of just two bags in the rear, which from what I've read will give me a taller wake.

To fill these bags tee off the raw water scoop that brings the water into the engine. Add a shut off valve at the end off the tee to shut off water if I ever had problems.

Using a reversing pump and a three postion toggle switch flip the switch down to fill the bags. At the other end of the bag tie into the bilge line for an overflow. When the water runs out of the bilge line and into the lake the bags would be full. To empty the bags just reverse the pump and suck the bags dry sending the water back through the scoop and in the lake. I don't belive one would have to use any check valves, because if the scoop would bring any new water into the bag as you drive if it was already full it would run out the other end of the bag into the bilge line and out into the lake.
Old    danno            02-04-2003, 9:36 PM Reply   
I think the raw water intake is going to have substantial pressure behind it and you would have to have a huge pump to force water down through it. Measure the depth of your intake below the waterline, that is, the new waterline when your bags are filled, that will determine the pressure you are going to have to overcome to pump water out. When the boat is moving, the scoop adds a whole new dynamic which increases the pressure that much more. You can do the math, but my gut feeling is that it won't work, or at least it won't work well.

On the other hand, I could be wrong. I'm married, it happens all the time. :-)
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 6:53 AM Reply   
Aaron,
what is basically what I did. There will be no problem at all and will fill much faster when moving. When you drain the sacs though you will most likely have to be at an idle.
Old    oldschool            02-05-2003, 6:54 AM Reply   
Aaron,

I would use the raw water pick as a last resort. It would be hard to find large fittings for it to connect to a pump and sacks, plus if there was ever a problem you coul dbe taking water away from your engine. It's really no big deal to put a hole in the bottom of the boat and add another scoop fitting. I guess it's the intimidation factor.

The only problem with the reversing pumps are they are much slower than aerator pumps. I don't know if the pump will be able to force water back into the raw water line...
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-05-2003, 7:04 AM Reply   
What type of sealant are you using if any when putting the thru-hull scoops in? Can this be had at Home depot?

Thanks,

Jason
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 7:07 AM Reply   
People recommend the 3m 5200 I think it is. Mine was done by the factory in silicone though.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-05-2003, 7:12 AM Reply   
Can that be found at Home Depot?
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 7:14 AM Reply   
sorry. try west marine

also, I just installed my perfect pass and they recommend silicone. That is what I used on the paddle wheel.
Old    jmccallum            02-05-2003, 7:16 AM Reply   
Silicone works, expert say urathane is better. I noticed that there are some silicones labled as "marine" Not sure what difference they really make. My boat only stays in the water during the weekends but so far no problems with "marine" silicone.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorDisplayView?advisor=341.htm
Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 7:18 AM Reply   
In the perfect pass manual it says to use silicone such as G.E. Silicone. I called them on it and they said that is all they use and never had any problems with any of the installs they have done.
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-05-2003, 7:34 AM Reply   
Ok, thanks, I will check into it. Home depot sells G.E. Silicone, but mainly for shower doors and windows.
Old    oldschool            02-05-2003, 7:46 AM Reply   
Dude, I just used some regular old white sealer from Home Depot. But it would probably be better to get the good stuff from West Marine.
Old    stencil_king            02-05-2003, 8:40 AM Reply   
Dan,
Your point is well taken. I believe i would have to empty the sacks while the boat is stopped like Ty said so that no new water would be coming into the raw water inlet.

Ty,
Since your system is close to my thoughts on a system i was wondering if you have had any problems?

Dan,

I think if I would close the valve that would be installed right after the tee there would be no more water coming into the pump or sacks, therefore no problem in starving the water to the motor.





Old    TY-one-on (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-05-2003, 8:43 AM Reply   
It was very simple and I only fill when we are moving or with the engine off just to be safe. Draining pretty much has to be at idle or off. The only problem I see is when you tap into the bilge you have to use inline check valves so as not to drain into your bilge. Try to get the .5 pound ones. Legend make them as well as others I am sure.

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:18 PM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2012 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us