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Old    freefly70            08-20-2007, 8:44 AM Reply   
Since I joined this site I have always wondered who was the first manufacturer to build a hull specifically for wakeboarding and what model was it? I know from my early years of slalom behind a MC it was how can we get rid of the wake. Just curious.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-20-2007, 9:14 AM Reply   
'03 MC picklefork X-star
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       08-20-2007, 9:26 AM Reply   
The x-star is probably the best know but Correct Craft made a Pro Air that had a wake specific hull around 98 or 99.
Old    LakeAustinRider (lakeaustinrider)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-20-2007, 10:50 AM Reply   
Wrong - Pro Air Nautique. Not sure what years it was made. It is not available anymore because it didn't work that well. It was a stepped hull so with standard ballast it was supposed to be great. If you added more ballast than stock you would defeat the whole purpose of the stepped hull. Everyone wants to make their wake bigger so alot of people added more weight.

There was also a Ski Centurion hull in the early to mide 90's that was specificly for wakeboarding. I don't remember the model name. The boat just sucked. It had a great big swim platform with built in ballast.
Old    Jeff Burnside (outbackls)      Join Date: May 2004       08-20-2007, 10:58 AM Reply   
Supra also designed the original Launch (direct drive) hull specifically as a wake hull. I think it was around '89? I may be wrong on the year.
Old    Phil Veit (bigjackamo)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-20-2007, 11:45 AM Reply   
Jeff do you mean '99? Not sure wakeboarding was even around, with the exception of Tony Finn and a few others in '89.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       08-20-2007, 11:46 AM Reply   
I think supra just got lucky. I beleive that the launch hull was not an acutal wake hull.

The pro air did not last very long. It is funny how Correct Craft developed a "wake hull" but at the same time they were selling a great wake boat as a family boat and not a wakeboard boat (210, Super Sport).
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-20-2007, 12:22 PM Reply   
Upload
Is that a tracking fin underneath?

(Message edited by woreout on August 20, 2007)
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-20-2007, 12:41 PM Reply   
Ah, yep, forgot about the Pro Air. Funny thing is their other hull at the time was a better wake hull.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-20-2007, 12:54 PM Reply   
Kevin needs to back me up, but I believe the Centurion Wave was the first absolute board sport hull sold to the public.

(Was it called the Wave???I honestly can't remember...I sold a couple, but they were a horrible little boat....)
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-20-2007, 1:58 PM Reply   
Yep, it was the wave. It had a built in pylon and like 160lbs of ballast!
Old    freefly70            08-20-2007, 3:19 PM Reply   
What about the early Super Air's? 97 or so through 01 or 02 before the hull change?
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-20-2007, 3:38 PM Reply   
super airs were rebadged supersports they weren't created specifically for wakeboarding. This was the same deal with the early wakesetters and xstars (x1, x2). The wave could be it. Unless they used the same running surface as one of their other boats and just changed the top deck for wakeboarding. As has already been mentioned, adding ballast and a tower does not make a boats hull wake specific.
Old    HeHateMe (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-20-2007, 3:48 PM Reply   
Wave then went to Gekko Bazooka did it not?

Tige 21V Riders... I liked it... and rumor is they are coming back with something like the original 21V riders edition... some interesting thought went into the original boat... TAPS... and then heavy hull construction... convex hull... and smally panels of vinyl used so if there was a rip.. smaller pieces had to be repaired opposed to an entire section.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-20-2007, 3:50 PM Reply   
Yep it was the wave.

Until they changed web pages they had a cool time line with Centurion Innovations. The wave had ballast and an extended pylon.

And yes Gekko built the Wave under of Bazooka


(Message edited by krbaugh on August 20, 2007)
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-20-2007, 4:06 PM Reply   
So, I would have been correct if the question had been "What was the first successful wake specific hull design?"

That's how I would like everyone to view my part in this discussion.
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       08-20-2007, 4:08 PM Reply   
what was that all black boat, that had the neoprene interior?? I thought that was supposed to have been a wake specific boat. mid 90's??
Old    Rudy Fierros (vfrdude)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-20-2007, 4:23 PM Reply   
That would be a 1998 MB Sports B52. My brother has one. When he bought it the neoprene was all cracked and faded. MB Sports re-uplostered the whole thing free of charge! It's based on the Boss 210, but I think he said they made some changes to the hull to make it throw a better wake for boarding.
Upload
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       08-20-2007, 4:37 PM Reply   
I rode in one at Naci way back then. it was waaaaay hot on the interior.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-20-2007, 5:53 PM Reply   
Kevin.....was the Wave a different bottom from the little 4 man slalom unit of similar dimensions?? I seem to remember those hit the market in about 93 or so....
Old    Nick Harvey (dfwharvey)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-20-2007, 5:55 PM Reply   
If you guys want to argue a little more how about you toss in the now X1 hull (used to be X2, and Xstar). It has been in production since 96. It was originally a Prostar model.

And I remember when that B52 came out with the neoprene. It was sweet when I sat in it during the winter boat show but I never had the pleasure of it in the middle of a Texas August.
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-20-2007, 5:56 PM Reply   
Do you mean a hull that was designed from the ground up with the aid of advanced Computational Fluid Dynamics and built specifically for wake sports??? Because in that case there is only one that comes to mind for me... :-) There is a BIG difference between hulls that just happened to be decent wake hulls with additional weight but were originally designed as ski hulls. A running surface that was built for the purpose of wake sports alone has to be very different. The SAN is a great example. It is a great wake boat but is only such because people started adding weight... Take the weight out and BAM you are skiing like a champ... Of course my design opinions are highly biased :-)
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-20-2007, 6:10 PM Reply   
Yes Nick same boat

The Typhoon, Avalacnche, Cyclone and Lightning where all designed from the ground up as board sport boats The Typhoon was the first in the series and came out in 2001
Old    freefly70            08-20-2007, 6:26 PM Reply   
Its very interesting from the sounds of it the most sought after "wakeboard" boats or most famous (super airs, x star x2 etc) were not created that way. People added weight and bam a wakeboard boat. Glad this did not turn into who's is better. Thanks guys.
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-20-2007, 6:43 PM Reply   
If you want to talk about the first wake capable hull(meaning one that could take the extra weight and still drive happily and not take water over the bow all the time) I would suggest the 85 Supra SunSport is the winner. They didn't really sell it as a WakeBoard Boat but it sure did perform like one. Plenty of freeboard meant you could load er up and with a clean running surface it threw a really nice and clean wake...
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       08-20-2007, 7:33 PM Reply   
you all are missing one... what about the bayliner wake challenger... that was a mid 90s boat built for wakeboarding.... they still use the hull in Australia and it does great for them!
Old    Sean Key (seankey)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-20-2007, 7:41 PM Reply   
Supra did build the 99 Launch as a wakeboard specific boat. There are plenty of articles on it, and supra advertises it in their history on their website. I happen to have one, so I may be a little biased, but it throws one of the best, if not the best direct drive wakes I have seen even with no weight.

(Message edited by SeanKey on August 20, 2007)
Old    Mike O'Callaghan (greenpinky)      Join Date: Apr 2004       08-20-2007, 9:18 PM Reply   
First wake capable hull, Chris? What about the Correct Craft Martinique? What year did they start? This one is a '76, taken from correctcraftfan.com

Upload
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-20-2007, 9:32 PM Reply   
Looks a little light on the freeboard compared to:

Upload
Upload

I think it is mostly the meat in the bow that makes the SunSport a fan favorite for me...
Old    JPK (jpk)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-21-2007, 12:05 PM Reply   
Yeah, my neighbor has one of those old Supra SunSports ('93, I think) and it throws a killer wake. It's a gigantic D-drive boat, not sure how it was ever marketed to skiers back then. It has enough freeboard that I hear some models had a sleeper cuddy in the bow as an option!!
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-21-2007, 12:13 PM Reply   
The first one developed from the ground up specifically for wakeboarding only, was the 03 XStar picklefork. The rest were just crappy waterski boats that slalom skiers hated, but happened to work well in the wakeboard application .
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-21-2007, 1:09 PM Reply   
Billy so you are saying that the centurion wave was not built from the ground up as a wakeboard boat?
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-21-2007, 1:30 PM Reply   
What year did the Wave come out? If it was before 94/95, I cant believe a MFG would spend the R&D on a sport that had not exploded in popularity yet. Maybe they did,
I dont know much about the Wave.

(Message edited by woreout on August 21, 2007)
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       08-21-2007, 1:55 PM Reply   
Billy, Read this description from the 99 Correct Craft Brochure


Upload
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-21-2007, 2:03 PM Reply   
wasn't the pro air basically a ski nautique w/ a tower on it and ballast tanks?
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-21-2007, 2:07 PM Reply   
It is a freaking weird little boat, but my guess is that it might have made for wakeboarding. It also could just be a different (and strange) deck setup on an existing hull.

http://www.budgetrv.com/93sk16.htm
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-21-2007, 2:08 PM Reply   
Joe, the Pro-Air had some strange pockets in the bottom of the hull that would make it ride differently in the water
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-21-2007, 2:25 PM Reply   
All that supposed development and it was still a direct drive?
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-21-2007, 2:26 PM Reply   
... what happened to the Wave being first?
Old    Evil0ne (evil0ne)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-21-2007, 2:55 PM Reply   
I think your answer is here:

Epic Boats 23V - World’s First Wake Boat
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-21-2007, 2:56 PM Reply   
Supersport Nautique from 95 = 2005 SuperAir
thats pretty old
Old    Chris (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-21-2007, 3:26 PM Reply   
"The first one developed from the ground up specifically for wakeboarding only, was the 03 XStar picklefork."

Actually it was 2002, when Cobalt rolled out the pickleform, that you see today. Cobalt builds great boats with toilets in them, but they didn't have anything remotely close to wakeboarding in mind, when they rolled those Picks out. It was the following year, when MC rolled theirs out, and since the companies are married, it was more like a "hey, look what we have inhouse already-a V shaped picklefork with non functioning pickles," than a build from the ground up with riders in mind. At this time, I would present exhibit A: http://www.boatinglife.com/article_content.jsp?ID=5824

I also don't think we can use "sale" ads as notable benchmarks in the industry. They needed to sell boats, and telling riders, they made this boat just for them, is too easy. Tossing a tower on a skirig, is like putting lipstick on a pig. (Yeah, I know, but it was college and I needed the extra cash.)
Interesting topic......
Old    Chris (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-21-2007, 3:43 PM Reply   
^Just kidding Billy.

The Wave is a mess, if that is part of the topic. A 17 footer with no freeboard, no dry weight, no seating, deep shallow V, isn't producing, IMHO. Great for skis, tubing, hotdogs, anything but....
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-21-2007, 4:03 PM Reply   
I see 2 different groups

Group 1 started around the late 90’s
Ok there seems to be a few wake boarders out there lets put a
Tower or extended pylon and some kind of ballast and a sticker on the side of one of our slalom boats and see if we can sell some boats.
These are a few I can think of

1995 Centurion Wave
1998 MasterCraft X star
1998? Nautique Super Air
2000? Centurion Air warrior


The Second groups is WOW there are no slalom skiers left and we are selling a bunch of the wake boats lets design a boat around the Wakeboarders

1999 Nautique ProAir
2001 Centurion Typhoon
2003 MasterCraft Xstar
2006 Epic
2007 Nautique 210


Ok so now fill the rest in when did your favorite company develop what when


(Message edited by krbaugh on August 21, 2007)

(Message edited by krbaugh on August 21, 2007)
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-21-2007, 4:37 PM Reply   
Wasn't the question "who build the first wakeboard specific hull"? If a company used the SAME hull before and after wakeboarding hit then it wasn't designed SPECIFICALLY for wakeboarding. It may have worked just fine after they added a tower and ballast but the hull wasn't designed FOR wakeboarding... That is just an overall comment... I think, when talking just hull design you take a LOT of the suggested boats out of the running here...
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       08-21-2007, 4:47 PM Reply   
haahaa... you guys keep passing up the wake challenger... 1997...

http://www.waterskimag.com/article.jsp?ID=12768
http://www.waterskimag.com/article.jsp?ID=12675
http://www.bayliner.co.jp/hp/sechand/secimage/09-wakechallenger/index.html

Give bayliner there dues for being innovative and cheap!
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-21-2007, 4:53 PM Reply   
IMO it was either the Centurion Wave or the CC Pro Air Nautique.

The Wave even had concrete pumped into the hull to add more weight, the entire retarded platform filled with water and it was specifically designed for wakeboarding, albeit poorly but none the less. The Pro Air was designed for riding, it had relief pockets that allowed it to sit deeper in the water. I'm pretty sure they had been playing with the idea when trying to develop a boat that would slalom & trick well. CC was dinking a lot with hydrodynamics back then.

Billy, Mastercraft first made the X-Star V-drive in 99 so to say that CC wasn't doing much research for wakeboarding is ignorant of the times. NO ONE WAS!!! The modern picklefork was the forst one designed from the ground up to hit a home run, I'll give you that.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-21-2007, 5:07 PM Reply   
I see 2 different groups

Group 1 started around the late 90’s
Ok there seems to be a few wake boarders out there lets put a
Tower or extended pylon and some kind of ballast and a sticker on the side of one of our slalom boats and see if we can sell some boats.
These are a few I can think of


1998 MasterCraft X star
1998? Nautique Super Air
2000? Centurion Air warrior


The Second groups is WOW there are no slalom skiers left and we are selling a bunch of the wake boats lets design a boat around the Wakeboarders

1995 Centurion Wave
1997 Bayliner Challenger
1999 Nautique ProAir
2001 Centurion Typhoon
2003 MasterCraft Xstar
2006 Epic
2007 Nautique 210


Ok so now fill the rest in when did your favorite company develop what when
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       08-21-2007, 5:49 PM Reply   
How is Epic making any of these lists? Yes, it was designed for wakeboarding, but there are alot of other boats that were designed specifically for wakeboarding long before Epic.
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-21-2007, 6:11 PM Reply   
Then why do 99 percent of them have ski pylons still?!?!?!?!? If it's strictly a Wakeboard boat... why the pylon.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-21-2007, 6:20 PM Reply   
Read the last line of the tread.
"Ok so now fill the rest in when did your favorite company develop what when"

I just threw a few out there.... So add your examples to the list.


"why the pylon" why not?
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-21-2007, 6:43 PM Reply   
Like someone said above, i do believe that the Wave was adapted from a small tourney style boat that Centurion rolled a few years prior. It looks similar, and is likely a redecked version of it.
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-21-2007, 7:07 PM Reply   
Kevin- Wasn't arguing with your list above at all... just making a point wakeboarders DONT use SKI PYLONS!!! Epic as far as I'm aware is the only company to not have one AT ALL. It's a pure wakeboat. I'd also say that in order to qualify as a pure wakeboat the wake when you get it should be medium to large in size. I dunno how all you fellas feel, but I'd say 90 percent on "wakeboard" boats out there today still produce a small to medium sized wake STOCK which is after all how it's advertised. Malibu, MB, Epic, Wakecraft, (fill in the blank) are a few of the "wakeboard" boats out there that produce a fairly medium to large size wake stock, which puts them in the running more than the 03 and up X-Star. PS I've ridden behind a newer Xstar a couple times and loved the wake with a couple thousand pounds additional ballast. That IMO is not what makes a true wakeboat, hence the name WAKE BOAT, not mini wake boat. The best thing MC could ever do is atleast up the ballast numbers in the X-Star I mean come on, who can argue that? Really...
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-21-2007, 7:17 PM Reply   
I would agree that is why I went from My Cyclone to the Enzo 216. I do many more things than just wakeboard The 216 wake is much more versatile than the Cyclone. No mater what you did with the ballast or speed the Cyclone wake was big.

As far as the pylon goes I don't think that having one makes it any less of a wake boat than adding a tower makes a boat into a wake boat IMHO of course
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-21-2007, 7:18 PM Reply   
I use the pylon to tow a photographer in a tube & I'm a wakeboarder. I'd be pissed if my boat didn't have one.
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-21-2007, 7:33 PM Reply   
Kevin- Fair enough I see your point and yours too heavy, but to play devils advocate Epic has had vid and photo shoots with tubes in tow and they don't have a pylon... Nobody adressed my ballast point. Come on lets have a discussion
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-21-2007, 7:56 PM Reply   
I was a Barefoot promo for MasterCraft back in the day but the only current MasterCraft I have been in is the X2. The wake was VERY nice I think he had the Stock ballast plus 160 lbs of lead in the back and 300lbs or so up front.

Everyone that I have ever talked to about the Xstar confirmed what you said LOTS of extra weight and the wake is GREAT
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-23-2007, 7:11 AM Reply   
Big Heavy says... "Billy, Mastercraft first made the X-Star V-drive in 99 so to say that CC wasn't doing much research for wakeboarding is ignorant of the times. NO ONE WAS!!! The modern picklefork was the forst one designed from the ground up to hit a home run, I'll give you that."


Thats my point if nobody was doing much research as you say in 97/98/99 than how can the WAVE or CC have the first one in early 90's?
Those boats also had Kneeboarding in mind.
03 pickle was the first devloped for the sole purpose of wakeboarding. Better board racks larger compartments in the back for adding more sacs larger front end for more people/weight.
And the "Ski Pylon" in a XStar is optional.
Old    Jon Roth (jon_roth)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-23-2007, 11:05 AM Reply   
'96 SV23 Malibu Sunsetter hull . When properly weighted, is one of the best wakes.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-23-2007, 2:34 PM Reply   
The CC Pro Air came out in 99, it was based of the Sport Nautique's dimensions. It however had the TWC hull that was designed for wakeboarding. CC had learned a lot about controlling the flow of water across the hulls to adjust the depth/attitude in which they rode through the water. They applied the lessons they learned from creating a slalom boat that rode higher out of the water to reverse the process and get one to ride deeper. IMO first wake boat. 03 Star, not so much.

I'm sure even the X-star has kneeboarding in mind, they want the same as wakeboarders. To discredit the CC based on that is called "reaching".
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       08-23-2007, 3:29 PM Reply   
Actually the first x-star was even a direct drive boat.

The modern wake boat is an evolution from the past. All of the boats mentioned have been part of that evolution. The Pro Air was one of the first attempt at making a true wake hull. It may have not been the best wake boat but it was one of the first attempts.

If you read Correct Crafts Brochure from 1999 that I posted it says in there it is a TWC hull that was a redesigned hull for wakeboarders.

If you can read what is written and understand that 1999 is before 2003 I do not know how you can still think the X-star was the first wake hull.

I am talking about the cc because I know nothing about the hull of the wave nor could I find much info on it.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-23-2007, 4:08 PM Reply   
It is what the MC marketing department feeds the dealers. When you are sold on that you don't know any better.
Old    HeHateMe (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-24-2007, 2:14 PM Reply   
AZTEC CROW!!! Bocephus would agree. Still without a doubt, the best wakeboard boat ever built!

Good news.. the molds are for sale too!

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