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Old    Matt Simpson (pink)      Join Date: May 2006       08-10-2007, 5:30 PM Reply   
trading for new and a little lost. i have a 2006 MB Sport B52 V23 and am thinking about going to a 2007 Mastercraft X-Star salt water edition. now i live in tampa, just moved here, and i am looking for input from anyone. no idea is a bad one so give me all of them. i need the pro's and con's about the boat and what anyone thinks would be a better idea, what i can get for my boat now, should i trade, should i go with something else, how much should i pay. i am reaching out to the wakeboard scene because i had to deal with JOA in Atlanta and now it is Bay Area Watersports and this will be my first Mastercraft. and will complet the list of boat so all the help i get, i will be greatful
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       08-10-2007, 6:11 PM Reply   
x star. because i said so. when your in a x star you look at other boats and say " thats cute". when your in another boat and you see a x star you say " dam i wish i had that boat".
Old    Byrd (byrd)      Join Date: Dec 2005       08-11-2007, 6:15 AM Reply   
Good Choice in boat. I'm good friends w/ Zane here in Winter Haven, and he had/has the X-Star Saltwater Series X-Stars. He just got his new one. His last one was used in saltwater many times last year, and I could never tell it was ever in saltwater. The X-Star is a great boat, but the SS series is even better, IMO. If your boat will be in saltwater, and you will be keeping it for a number of years, its worth the extra money IMO...
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-11-2007, 7:41 AM Reply   
Jerry,EXACTLY RIGHT!!
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-12-2007, 7:46 AM Reply   
X-star all the way. Now that we've spent a season behind ours I don't even want to ride anything else. The wake is so fun.
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-12-2007, 8:46 AM Reply   
IMO, that's like comparing a Honda to a BMW. X Star all the way!!!
Old    Scott Taylor (taylormade)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-12-2007, 4:04 PM Reply   
Matt, Allow me to ease any concerns you may have about BAWS. They've sold a boat for me and I've bought my current one from them as well as a few parts. I know at least 5 people who've purchased boats from them. You won't find a better bunch of guys in the area. Both Jim and Chuck will be there before, during and after the sale. I've been dealing with ski boat dealers in the Tampa area for seven years and can relate a lot of stories for you. They're the best in the biz and will take excellent care of you. PM me for more.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-12-2007, 6:47 PM Reply   
all eyez, i.e. ryan xstarI can promise you when I see an xstar, it is not on my wish list. Fantasyland is a cool place.

(Message edited by auto on August 12, 2007)
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       08-12-2007, 7:14 PM Reply   
i know what you typed the first time. All eyez, you and big ed are right. the x star is the best. then something must of hit you in the head and then you edited what you typed and then came up 'with the rubbish you did. you malibu guys are the biggest hater's in the game. its ok man. just be true to yourself. you dont have to impress anyone here.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-12-2007, 7:54 PM Reply   
^^^. Hata??? Why??? Impress a the crowd here? Why?

Keep thinking everyone else wishes they could own a x-star if it makes you feel better about your purchase.
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-12-2007, 7:54 PM Reply   
i never thought i would here something like that from you eyez. i hope you didnt mean all bu owners are haters. one love brotha.

oh ya, since this is a mc/mb thread. i have rode behind a v23 and a 06 xstar, both with wieght. and if we are talking whole package here, xstar all the way. you might want to bring more than a helmet. i wished i had my whole body in bubble wrap with double knee braces. an xstar wake when weighted correctly is worth the price tag. I.M.O.
Old    Twitch Hambling (themxercr85)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-12-2007, 8:33 PM Reply   
X-star by far
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       08-12-2007, 9:12 PM Reply   
yea. i was just messing around. i do like bu's and the owners, but if i had my choice. it would have to be a x star. imo
Old    Nick Harvey (dfwharvey)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-13-2007, 12:36 PM Reply   
Xstar.......Jim at BAWS is a great guy!! They will take care of you.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2007, 12:44 PM Reply   
Tell Jim, Billy sent you in so I can get a bird dog fee.
An SS/X45 aint a bad way to go either and about the same price.

(Message edited by woreout on August 13, 2007)
Old    Dex (tarpongator)      Join Date: Jan 2006       08-13-2007, 12:49 PM Reply   
I did two demos with Chuck at BAWS. He was a nice guy. I ended up with a Nautique but not because of anything BAWS did negative.

(Message edited by tarpongator on August 13, 2007)
Old    Dan Smith (dansmith)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2007, 5:20 PM Reply   
OK, just to chime in from the MB side of the house...
The only thing that irritates me about the X-Star is that, as Bryan put it, "an xstar wake when weighted correctly is worth the price tag."
True, but consider that "topped off, the X-Star can hold 850 lbs of water weight." But to correctly weight it, you need an additional 2000lbs of fat sacs/concrete/lead, etc. (or so I've heard)
I don't know about any of you, but I need my storage space, and MB has 2500lbs AND the storage space. I don't feel like dropping 70K for a boat, then having to add 3 or 4 sacs lying around the floor. Why don't they just add more weight to the stock ballast and be done with it?
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-13-2007, 7:12 PM Reply   
They definitely should do that... that's all I'm adding to this, since I'm sure it's gonna start gettin hot soon.
Old    stillstandin            08-13-2007, 7:26 PM Reply   
I know I def the minority here, but Ive spent time in both those boats, I would go with the MB, but that is just me. Im just not a fan of the X-Star.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-13-2007, 7:42 PM Reply   
Welcome to my world Dan. David and Goliath. You are comparing a company that builds 3,000+ boats a year, hundreds of thousands in advertising, 30+ years of "heritage," and has bought out half of the top Pro's to a company that is an individually owned, custom built 300+ boat a year manufaturer, that spends next to nothing on advertising because they don't care to, not want to build a boat that appeals to the "masses." MB's prove themselves on the water and everyone that owns one, especially ones built in the the last couple of years knows what I am speaking of. I have sold boats to quite a few MC loyalists that will never go back. It blows my mind that a company can charge $80,000+ for a chopped glass, assembly line, sticker covered boat.

Sorry, I just gotta stick up for my MBs. And no I have never, ever wished I had a MC, not even when I had a Wakesetter or a Super Air.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-13-2007, 7:50 PM Reply   
And Matt, how about a Tomcat with a 8.1L Crusader, 2400 lbs of ballast, seating for 14, lifetime warranty, for $10k+ less money and you don't need a saltwater series with MB, its already built with all of the Stainless steel bits.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-13-2007, 7:52 PM Reply   
Hey Alan,

I've seen posts, etc about the B52 and F23 but what about the 220v and 230v? I searched and came up with nothing on those.... I just saw a loaded up 230v on boattrader for like 49k brand new with the upgraded engine and a lot of options. Do you guys sell a lot of those? what are the wakes like on those models with the stock (2000lbs) of ballast? Don't get many MB's here in the midwest yet :-)
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-13-2007, 8:07 PM Reply   
The 220v and 230v are the exact same boats as the B-52 and B-52 V23, same ballast, towers, etc. The B-52 label adds Perfect Pass, Upraded Stereo, and the upgraded color scheme. Kinda like the Maristars. And yes they are very good sellers.
Old    CJB (goodwin)      Join Date: Feb 2006       08-13-2007, 8:20 PM Reply   
But Alan, the X-Star is a "Legend", how can the MB's even compare?
MC, CC and Malibu rule these discussion boards, so if you put any other company up against them you usually get trampled.
The MB's are ready for saltwater? Good to know!
How many B52's have you sold with the 8.1L Crusader? I thought that option was dropped in '06?
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-13-2007, 8:23 PM Reply   
Browny After our Centurion we almost got a B52 but went with the Malibu. Strictly because of the closeness of our dealer. Make no mistake MB makes a hell of a boat and always has. Their wakes are sick, especially the Tomcat, and I'd be willing to bet the Tomcat can really challenge the "legend" Xstar in the wake category...Yes, even loaded down to the rubrail.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-13-2007, 8:31 PM Reply   
I have a bunch of salt water customers and the boats look great, even the ones that are not so well taken car of.

I have not sold one with the Crusader, I was just talking to Mr. Brendel about it and I am sure that he would do it if a customer wanted it. I also would not be suprised to see it as an option for '08, I think it could work really well in the Tomcat.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-13-2007, 8:35 PM Reply   
I know its an uphill battle. My job would not me as exciting if it was not that way.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-14-2007, 8:06 AM Reply   
Is MB still using the old MC molds? You know the chopped glass stickered up assembly line POS ones. The MB pickle is one ugly boat, sorry but theres a lot more to a SS MC than "stainless steel bits" as alan put it. How much is a MB fully loaded, you know apples to apples with the XStar?
And not how much you sell them for, but MSRP.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       08-14-2007, 8:15 AM Reply   
When did MC start using a chopper gun. Last time I checked(and it has been a while) they were 100% handlaid(or so they said).
Old    Matt Anderson (xaggie)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-14-2007, 9:25 AM Reply   
"for $10k+ less money"

Or about how much more resale I'll get out of mine?
Old    christy smith (wake4fun)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-14-2007, 10:33 AM Reply   
In California the Tomcat costs as much as the X Star. Changes the equation a bit. My friends were quoted over 70,000 before they bought an X 15.
Old    taco (cassetteboy777)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-14-2007, 12:46 PM Reply   
I think we need to refraise the Topic Title:

MC > MB
Old    Clubjoe (clubjoe)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-14-2007, 12:49 PM Reply   
And......round one of "SUPER-SLAPFIGHT VII" ends with the usual scratches and rasberries.....

Who will win round #2? Mastercraft?... MB?... Will the BuCrew enter the ring and set everyone straight?... Stay tuned! More action to come on SUPER-SLAPFIGHT VII!!!....Another Don King production......
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-14-2007, 12:53 PM Reply   
There are 2 well equipped B-52V's advertised at mission rv and marine for 44,900 right now. I don't think I could get into a similarly optioned MC for anything close to that. I'm a former MC owner and fan, but believe that the cost and hype have far surpassed the worth and functionality. Ex. you shouldn't have to add so much weight to your 70K mc to maximize the wake.........after all you already payed for the X "star".
Not bashing....cause if I could pay for one I would, but I can't so I'll find some more bang for my .50
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-14-2007, 2:00 PM Reply   
So if anyone adds weight to their boat, does that mean they paid too much cuz it didnt have all the weight it could possibly hold when originally sold? You can maximize any wake by adding weight.
44900 is a heavily discounted price. Whats the MSRP, and what will they add to the price once you get there? ie, trailer, freight, prep etc.
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-14-2007, 2:41 PM Reply   
Let me re phrase then. If I paid 70k for a wake boat and it didn't have a factory wake that was representative of the price then yes, I paid too much. I figure for that money they'd be making plenty of room in that boat for more ballast.

1. You don't buy a 4 cylinder vette
2. You don't buy a F350 PSD with a 1 foot bed.
3. You don't but a 500K house with only one bathroom.

There are too many viable options out there to pay that much and still have to add 4 more cylinders to that vette. I 100% agree that the resale issue is valid, because I've proved it when I sold mine, I don't agree with the "initial sale value". Someone above made the comment about MC stickers. I was in a norcal MC dealer looking at boats and spotted a new (then) X-star. Althought its a bigger boat that I'm interested in I was alarmed when I saw the 80K sticker, only because I could never spend that much. After looking at I couldn't believe how cheap the stickers looked. They didn't line up with each other and where they overlapped it was a different color. For that price I would have at least expected the cheap stickers to line up and at least be the same color, or am I talking crazy talk?
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-14-2007, 3:05 PM Reply   
I will agree there... The graffiti graphics were awful with matching in the back, and were never perfectly lined up.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-14-2007, 4:54 PM Reply   
I wish Dave would outlaw any comparison threads. They all turn into a pissing match. Not to harp on the guy that started the thread, but go to every dealer in your area and test anything that interests you, pick out the one you like best, and pay for it. Who cares what a bunch of middle aged guys sitting in their cubicle care about what you buy. I have been around a lot of boats in the last 15+ years and I've seen a lot of flaws from every manufacturer. Not one of them is perfect. So when I see the same handful of people on this site bashing other boats because theirs is so much better in virtually every thread it makes me laugh.

(Message edited by kstateskier on August 14, 2007)
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-14-2007, 5:09 PM Reply   
I challenge someone to find one instance of me ever boat bashing. I basically said "I" couldn't justify buying an "X Star" because of the price. I'm forced to look at lower priced options because of what "I" believe are inflated prices. Like I said before, If money wasn't issue I'd buy one..........
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-14-2007, 5:13 PM Reply   
^^^^

Nick always enjoy the posts. I somewhat agree, but it does make for some cheap entertainment. I can't believe anyone would take someone's internet opinion on a boat purchase.

Like Nick said. You will find out much more on boat hop days, dealer demo's and riding behind the different boats, than all the boat threads on wakeworld.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-14-2007, 5:41 PM Reply   
Nick, what about KU vs KSU threads?
Old    edpaz (mred)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-14-2007, 6:06 PM Reply   
both are good boats i would demo them both and weight the good and bad then find out witch dealership will provide you with the best support witch to me mean more then the name on the side a good delership can make owning a new boat one of your happiest days our one of your worst. in the end its your choice get out there and ride the crap out of the two. make it a fun experience.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-14-2007, 6:11 PM Reply   
Ian,

Of course those need to continue. What I actually was thinking is Dave needs a "Warzone" section like some of the college internet boards I go to have, so all the haters can just bash each other in there!

Shane, definately cheap entertainment. I definately enjoy your posts, as you always give fair judgement and some humor. Some people though have the deapest tinted ownership goggles, but I won't name names!
Old    Matt Anderson (xaggie)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-14-2007, 11:47 PM Reply   
100% Nick. I'll throw jaded opinions out there all day, and sometimes a little malicious. Knee jerk reaction, same as someone telling you your mom is looks like cow.

I'll go to C-net to figure out what kind of $300 digital camera I want to gift the GF, but I'll count myself a fool if I buy a boat simply on the advice of some typed opinions.

I'll repeat ad nauseum, DEMO DEMO DEMO. I like my boat for the same reasons you would hate it. Try it before you buy it! Advice a lot smarter people than me can give you. Cheers!
Old    Matt Simpson (pink)      Join Date: May 2006       08-15-2007, 9:21 PM Reply   
yes but what goes on when you drive it off the lot and stuck with a 600 a month boat payment and something goes wrong, what is the downside to each boat from owners that have one in the front yard and have to deal with it everyday. what do you find out when the new boat hype is over, are the boats you buy the real deal or just that, hype. do i really want to pay 80k, 90k for a sticker as some would say. witch boat holds up to the hype and witch ones dont. i do look to the "internet advice" because the people that give it know more about their MC or MB or the boat that they do own more than i would know. so just to make things less hostile if you own a MC XStar tell me what your thoughts are and the pro's and con's after the hype of geting the boat goes away
Old    Matt Anderson (xaggie)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-15-2007, 10:26 PM Reply   
Well like I said thats a loaded question. Let's see all my personal opinions.

PROS:
1. I think it's one of the best looking boats on the water. I mean both Tige and MB mimicked it after it succeeded.

2. Looking through the boat you can tell that MC uses quality hardware, fittings, ect... In other words quality.

3. Awesome wake. I don't need the Extra 2500#'s of ballast people say the boat lacks. I'm no pro, and I'm of the opinion that some people use extra ballast as a crutch for improper technique.

4. JL Components. Stock Clarion HU and Amps I could do without, but the components sound sweet.

5. I personally like the timed ballast system. I won't lie, I forget to turn the damn things off more often than I like to admit.

I could go on but that would be redundant. I'll list the cons, again as I see them.

CONS
1. Not so sure about the '07 tower design, and it makes me frown even more to see the extra braces on the '08's. Plus it's more of a PITA to put down than ever.

2. The boat is horrid, and I mean bad in rough water. I'm no engineer, but my dads Prostar 190 takes chop better and it's 4 feet shorter and 1500+ pounds lighter. This seems impossible to engineer..

3. Handling. Now I'll preface this by saying the boat tracks and boards flawlessly. Turns with the new rudder are great as well ('05 and up I believe). The problem is if you come off the throttle too fast you'll take water over the stern, not to mention 50% of the time with the 8.1 the motor dies (Indmar was supposed to have fixed this but all the fix does is surge the idle and make the driver look like a noob). Finally the dreaded water over the bow...Yea it happens if your not watching out. Let me conclude this by saying that ALL these things can be avoided if you are a halfway decent boater, but don't expect to hop right in and be Travis Moye.

4. I can not see the labels on the switches at night. Sure the switches are solid as hell, and light up to tell you if they are on or not, but I simply can not read the labels in the dark.

5. Cheese ball stickers. I think the above poster was right. With such an expensive boat you
would think you would have more in gel coat options. I also hate the fact that the X-Star has the most limited gel schemes of all the boats. Most any others can be had in SOLID schemes, but not the flagship boat unless you want all White.

6. Did I mention I think the Clarion HU is trash if you really want a good sounding system?

7. Sticker shock.

Like I said I could go on, but thats what I can think of off the top of my head after more than a few White Russians. All that being said MC has always stood behind it's boats and I hope to get one of the on so sweet 40th Anniversaries in '08. Cheers, Matt A
Old    tom (wakepete)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-17-2007, 2:02 PM Reply   
"The boat is horrid, and I mean bad in rough water. I'm no engineer, but my dads Prostar 190 takes chop better and it's 4 feet shorter and 1500+ pounds lighter. This seems impossible to engineer..

You have to be jokin the boat handles the chop amazingly well it rides through double ups like there not even there!
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-17-2007, 3:01 PM Reply   
Double ups aren't exactly what I or most I'm assuming would consider rough water
Old    Mike (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       08-17-2007, 3:05 PM Reply   
I have owned several wake specific boats and I have to agree with Tom. I think that it handles chop really well.
Old    Matt Anderson (xaggie)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-17-2007, 3:25 PM Reply   
Just my humble opinion.
Old    Brad Newton (bradzass)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-17-2007, 8:45 PM Reply   
5. Cheese ball stickers. I think the above poster was right. With such an expensive boat you
would think you would have more in gel coat options. I also hate the fact that the X-Star has the most limited gel schemes of all the boats. Most any others can be had in SOLID schemes, but not the flagship boat unless you want all White.

Yes, frustrating. Why is this? Does anyone know why you can order a solid black X2 but not on the X-Star? I'm thinking of solid black for my next boat, if it meant them selling new boat would Mastercraft do a solid colored} X-Star?
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-17-2007, 10:38 PM Reply   
brad, chances are they wont ever offer that option, that would not be smart of mc to blend an xstar into the rest of the line up. it is a, well, "flag ship" of thier line and to make it look like an x2 or an x45 would not catch attention from the public. think about it, put the 3 boats staggard about 500 yards down the water and make them all black. now make one of them flashy as can be and tell me witch one is the xstar. marketing brotha. and that is just one example of it. but i do see your point, if its my boat, im ordering it and paying for it, some more options would be nice.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-18-2007, 9:56 AM Reply   
Actually there was 2 gel options for 07, Graffiti or Switch which is also the same for 2008. Soooo There !!!
Brad the black floor is hot as hell if you take the carpet out of an X2. I would pick another lighter color if it were me.
Old    Cl (cdl)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-18-2007, 11:07 AM Reply   
A pro for MB is you have about 40 or so colors you can pick from. You can pick upholstery colors etc. MB truly is a custom boat. That is one thing I liked about MB is that your boat is pretty much a on of a kind (with personal color choices). Hate to pay so much for a boat and see a dozen other ones just like it. MC makes a nice product but remember that just because you have been around forever and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on advertising doesn't mean you are the best and everyone else is not. Look at and test drive them all then make the choice that works best for you. My 2cent.

Check out the dealers in your area also- a bad dealer can make the any boat a bad experience.

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