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Old    Han Murraij (hmurray)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-05-2007, 9:22 AM Reply   
Hello all.

Today was service day for our mastercraft prostar 190 1989.
We bought a new oil filter and some oil.
Our boat is stationed in a harbor. (yes, its always in the water, we dont trailer)

we had a pump, so we could pump the oil through the oil level measurment tube. But first we heated the engine by letting it run at 1000 rpm for about half an hour.
The oil carter was hot and so was the oil.

We started to pump and about 2 liters of oil came out. We were like "hmm 2 liters, that's not much."
So we putted a little bucket in the bilge and loosend the drain tube. Nothing came out so we though "Hmm it maybe was already low on oil. Let's fill her op with clean oil."

And so we did. We started to poor in clean oil and kept checking the oil pin. After about 2,5 liters of oil the oil level was again back on the right hight.

*So my question is, how is it possible that only 2 liters of oil came out? Cause it's a 4.5 liter carter.

*If we didn't get all of the old oil out of the engine and it's now mixed with new oil. Is it bad to leave it that way till next year?

*Is it possible to get all of the oil out when the boat is in the water? or should it be on the trailer?

Thanks in advance.

For the rest.
It's about an MC 190 Prostar building year 1989 with a ford pcm 351 engine.
And ohh yeah, i'm dutch so please excuse me for my bad english vocubalery
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       07-05-2007, 10:02 AM Reply   
ALL engines burn oil. They are designed too. Make sure from here out you check your oil more often. As an engine gets older, they tend to burn more. Do you see a puff of smoke when started cold?
Old    leonard araujo (laraujo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-05-2007, 10:03 AM Reply   
If you do not have any obvious oil leaks on your engine then it sounds like your PCM is burning oil. Do you have a lot of hours on your PCM? It may need a valve job or the rings could be bad.

Also did you change your Oil filter, there is usually +.5 liter of oil in there. You can never really get 100% of the oil out in a boat, so as long as you get 95% or so of the old oil out and replace with new (filter too) then you are OK.
Old    Han Murraij (hmurray)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-05-2007, 10:07 AM Reply   
no,

i got about 2 liter of oil out of the engine, and put about 2 liters back. So it isn't burning oil. The point is that there should have come more then 2 liters of oil out of the engine.
Old    leonard araujo (laraujo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-05-2007, 10:11 AM Reply   
Han,

your engine had 4.5 liters of oil in it originally. The reason when you drained it is because the engine is burning/consuming oil. The oil in your engine is combusting in the chambers and exiting out your exhaust.
Old    Rob Cates (hemihauler)      Join Date: Jan 2006       07-05-2007, 10:41 AM Reply   
He means that after draining all the oil he only put back in 2.5 and the dip stick read full. I think he is wondering how it can read full on dip stick with only 2.5 liters.
Old    Brad Chesley (bchesley)      Join Date: Apr 2001       07-05-2007, 10:44 AM Reply   
your boat should only take that much. It only holds 4 quarts. Whats the conversion to liters?
Old    leonard araujo (laraujo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-05-2007, 10:52 AM Reply   
http://www.metric-conversions.org/cgi-bin/util/convert.cgi

2.5 liters is only a little over 2 quarts. I would think that ford would hold 5 with the filter change.
Old    Han Murraij (hmurray)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-05-2007, 10:53 AM Reply   
@ rob cates.. that's what i ment.
a quart is 0.946 liter
so 2.5 liter = 2.365 quart


(Message edited by hmurray on July 05, 2007)
Old    leonard araujo (laraujo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-05-2007, 10:56 AM Reply   
Hans,

yes when you drained that engine and took off the filter there should be about 4 liters in your waste bucket. If only 2 liters are in there, then your engine is consuming oil. How many hours are on your engine? do you have an hour meter on your boat?
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-05-2007, 11:02 AM Reply   
I belive what Hans is saying is that he tried to remove the oil through the dipstick tube and was only able to remove 2 liters. Then when he replaced the 2 liters, he was showing a full 4.5 liters on his dipstick.

I believe the issue that you are having is that you are unable to pump out the other three liters. Those pumps are tricky in order to get all of the oil out of the oil pan, you need to figure out a way to get the tube to sit at the bottom of the oil pan.

When you opened the oil tube on the bottom, did you completely remove it or just take the nut off the end?
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-05-2007, 11:13 AM Reply   
there is a screw that you can connect the pump to in the bootom of the oil pan.
Old    Brian Showalter (brians)      Join Date: May 2007       07-05-2007, 11:20 AM Reply   
I have the same issue with my '93 Prostar 190 with 351 Ford. The first few times I changed the oil I only got about 3 quarts out of it. I check the dipstick regularly and it always reads full, it does not burn oil.

Now I just put 5 quarts in it and let the dipstick read about an inch over full. I'd rather have too much than not enough. This has been discussed on the Mastercraft TeamTalk forums.

Linkhttp://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=10792
Old    Han Murraij (hmurray)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-05-2007, 1:26 PM Reply   
First.. my name is not HANS but Han (so loose the S)

@jason you're right that's what it did.
I've had the oil tube horizontally so i gues everything should come out.

All what i can come up with is that maybe ive should have had the boat on a trailer so i could set it with its nose downwards (cause the motor is not horizontal positioned...=> direct drive)?
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-05-2007, 1:41 PM Reply   
Han,
I have the same boat, and when changing the oil I do it on the trailer and throw the drain tube out the plug hole in the bottom. My boat would normally drain 3-3.5 quarts, but would then require the full 5???(or 4). I really don't know how your scenerio happened, maybe because the newer oil is thicker it hadn't settled in and was reading full when it really wasn't. Good luck.
Old    Jason Neves (jv210)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-05-2007, 2:35 PM Reply   
Han, you didnt get all your oil out, thats it. Could be because it's in the water and the oil is not by the drain or tube. Try using the oil pan drain hose instead of the dipstick tube.

I would try again to do the oil change and get most of the old oil out. You only got have of it out.
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-05-2007, 3:44 PM Reply   
Han,

Sorry for the extra "s". If you really mean horizontal and not vertical, that is part of your problem. As A-dub mentioned, the oil is quite thick and even when warmed up it is difficult to get it through a small tube espeically if it is not perfectly up and down. I have to pull my oil hose, through the plug hole and even then it takes hours to get the oil out. I would get it on the trailer, pull the hose through the plug hole, warm up the motor (using fake-a-lake) and wait. It is not a great practice to run old and new oil together, although I doubt any major damage will occur if you used the same type of oil.
Old    Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-05-2007, 4:55 PM Reply   
"So we putted a little bucket in the bilge and loosend the drain tube"

I am not sure what this means.....

The obvious answer is that you didn't get all the oil out. It appears that you didn't even get half the oil out, which is very strange. Using the dip stick tube to suck the oil out should do a lot better than that.

It is possible to slip a smaller diameter tube down the dip stick tube to reach the very bottom. The disadvantage of this approach is that the inner diameter becomes so small that it can take a very long time to pump the oil out.

If it is possible to reach the drain plug that is at the bottom of the oil pan that would allow you to get all the oil out. On most installations it is not possible to put a catch pan under the engine so the oil drains into the bottom of the boat. Some people do this with the boat on the trailer, then tip the bow up high to get the oil to run out the rear drain plug, then clean the bottom of the boat.

If you can reach the drain plug then you can also install a drain kit into the bottom. This kit replaces the standard drain plug with a hose fitting. The attached hose is then routed up to a convenient place and capped off. To change the oil you remove the cap and pump the oil out the hose.

It can be a lot of effort to install the drain kit but if you manage then future oil changes are a lot easier.

Rod
Old    Han Murraij (hmurray)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-06-2007, 1:01 AM Reply   
Just to mention.
The oil was about 60 degrees celcius (so it had almost the thickness of water)

And we had the tube wich runs to the lowest point of the oil pan horizontally and nothing came out. (after we already emptied through the dipstick)
Old    rick ator (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-06-2007, 1:25 AM Reply   
he said he pulled the drain plug and got nothing. The pan on that engine is a double humped pan. and I believe the dipstick sits right on the middle. You still have oil it both humps that you cant get with the fluid extractor. You best option is to pull the plug if you can and maybe run the extractor hose in through there to get to the from sump section of the pan
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-06-2007, 10:45 AM Reply   
you should take the boat out for a 10-15 minutes ride with full oil, then try draining oil.

another thing, is the dipstick the correct one?
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       07-06-2007, 12:44 PM Reply   
How many hours are on the engine? You may have a SERIOUS sludge issue and need to pull the block and clean the oil pan and other parts. Put an oil with a cleaner in it like Castrol- NOT Penzoil- that stuff blows!
Old    rick ator (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-06-2007, 1:15 PM Reply   
I'm telling you the pan is probably a two humped pan.
Old    R M (dr_inc)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-06-2007, 2:21 PM Reply   
does the dipstick tube go in the oil pan or the timing chain cover?

A ford 351 will be a rear sump pan.if the dipstick tube is in the timing chain cover then its wrong. you are not getting the correct reading.
Upload

And for an oil change dont use those crappy fram filters, use WIX #51515. now with an oil change I believe that it is 5 quarts with no filter change and x<6 quarts with a new filter. thats what i do with my 302.

and yes i can bet that its a dual summped pan and you need to unplug it or feed the hose farther down around the crank.
Old    rick ator (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-06-2007, 3:04 PM Reply   
yea that is the pan i was talking about. my 302 H.O. in my centurion had that too.

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