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Old    Tracy Ferguson (fergie23)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-23-2007, 1:05 PM Reply   
Last year I finally started going W2W HS. My goal for this summer is to clear TS as well and add some height to my HS w2w's. Mentally, I know I need to work on a more progressive edge but any thoughts or tips would be appreciated! I am riding at 60', 20mph with center ballast and 4 people in the boat. Thanks!

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb30/tfergie23/?action=view&current=35830588.flv

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb30/tfergie23/?action=view&current=bb6bb70a.flv
Old    Kim Possible (polhamus)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-23-2007, 7:48 PM Reply   
what kind of boat are you riding behind? 20 seems slow. Just remember stay on edge all the way up the wake, get good speed, and lean on the line. practice carving out away from the wake toeside as if you were setting up for a heelside wake jump. that is the feeling you should have going in toeside. i hope that makes sense, and isnt confusing.
Old    Kim Possible (polhamus)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-23-2007, 7:51 PM Reply   
i just saw your videos! you are doing everything right but stay leaning, you are bending at the waist half way across. stay tall. you are soo close
Old    Taylor M (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-24-2007, 6:58 AM Reply   
20mph is fine. put your rope all the way out and maybe even put 2 ropes together. practice edging at this length. The reason you are not going w2w is because you are scared of the ts landing which feel wierd. by putting your rope all the way out you will have a washy wake if any at all. practice edging as hardas you can back and forth. make it a game to yourself and count how long it takes you to get from one end to the other. Make sure you edge both directions as far as you can. when you are edging on your toes and you can not edge any farther out, this is the position you want to be in at the wake. with the edge you have in the video you could speed up and clear w2w ts. However you will be cheating and using your speed to clear the wake instead of using your edge. stay at 20mph and work on edging to clear the wke it will make you a better rider. good luck
scott
Old    Lizrd (lizrd)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-24-2007, 8:22 PM Reply   
Good advice from everyone so far. Your videos are great to watch. I would add to the conversation:
continue to work on the progressive edge both toeside and heelside. If you carefully watch the video you start to cut in heelside super fast and then try to slow the board down a little. Ideally you should start the cut incredibly slow - in fact just letting the pull of the boat drift you in. Accelerate through the top of the wake. When you start out super fast like you are doing, you have no speed to build.

For toeside - you'd be surprised how much more pop you get by holding with both hands - at a minimum to the top of the wake if not all the way through landing. It also really helps me to look to the opposite shoreline as I go up the wake toeside.

Keep up the great riding and let us know how the toeside goes.
Old    Tracy Ferguson (fergie23)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-25-2007, 11:57 AM Reply   
Thanks for all of the really good advice and comments! I love wakeboarding and have a great time doing it!

I just watched the video again and I see the points everyone has made.

On HS, I am cutting in hard, then backing off a bit at the wake instead of accelerating. Also, I thought the rope was low at my hips on the take-off but does it look a little high?

Also, I really thought I was holding on with 2 hands much longer on the TS jumps but am really letting go quite early. Also, I am continuing to bend at the waist. I will work on drifting in and starting my cut slower, making the cut more progressive, standing taller, looking at the opposite shore, Keeping the rope lower on my hip and holding on with 2 hands. Thanks for the tips and I'm hoping to put them all together and clear TS next time I get to go out and ride in a couple of weeks!
Old    Julie (jules)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-27-2007, 1:30 PM Reply   
I talked to Shaun Murray about my problem with TS once and he suggested that I envision "showing my back to the people in the boat" the entire way through the jump. This keeps the board heading in the correct direction on the landing and helps to eliminate the slide-out. I can't really tell if this is a problem for you, but it was for me. I felt like I won the lottery when I first cleared TS! I was so stoked! His tip seemed to work.
Old    vanski            07-28-2007, 12:33 AM Reply   
my .02 cents...it doesn't look like you are standing tall at the wake. Look at it closely and you will see your knees bent up the wake and cushioning your pop on your HS jumps. Rope lenght shouldn't make a difference at this point. If the rope is 60' and you have perfect form then the end result would be you landing way into the flats. Rope lenght wouldn't help in more pop. Working on your form is the key. Try taking your cut 15' out from the wake and let the boat slowly pull you towards the wake. Once that happens, the line is tight and start into your progressive edge. Hold the handle towards your hip, stay on that edge and ride up the wake and stand tall. You'll see the difference in the smoothness and height. Good luck.
Old    Tracy Ferguson (fergie23)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-31-2007, 11:14 AM Reply   
Jules--sounds like some good advice and yes, I do feel like I'm having trouble keeping the board going in the right direction. It always seems to be turned toward the boat, so I'll try this!

Van--good points and I agree that I'm not really standing very tall at the wake on HS. I will work on that also and hopefully start getting a little more pop and height. I can see that I'm also backing off on my edge, so drifting in slower and then building my edge seems to be key.

Thanks!
Old    Tracy Ferguson (fergie23)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-23-2007, 10:47 AM Reply   
Last week I was able to ride again and try to put all the good advice into practice. I think I made some progress and am waiting longer to make my cut so I don't come off edge and am keeping the rope lower...but still don't fell like I am standing tall at the wake and getting the pop on HS. I also tried Taylor's drill with the long rope and cutting back and forth--think it helped me get the feel of edging thru the wake. Also, on TS I tried to think about showing my back to the boat and keeping the board in the right direction. I had a couple where I almost cleared the wake but am still having trouble with it. Any comments on these new videos would be appreciated! Thanks for all the help!

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb30/tfergie23/?action=view&current=101_0213.flv

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb30/tfergie23/?action=view&current=101_0086.flv
Old    Mikaila (2waterbabies)      Join Date: Apr 2003       08-24-2007, 11:28 AM Reply   
I have a similar style to yours when it comes to HS jumps. My biggest problem I had to get past was timing, standing tall right at the peak of the wake. For me getting the timing down was all trial and error and unfortunately I don't have much advise for that. Aside from timing though, I try to focus on putting weight on my front foot and back foot evenly as I ride up the wake. Then I really think about extending hard off my back foot to get that back knee straight. I actually extend off both legs but I focus on the back leg more since it is usually slightly more bent. Hopefully this will help a little with your HS pop and good luck with TS, I am working on it too.
Old    Tracy Ferguson (fergie23)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-28-2007, 12:40 PM Reply   
Mikaila, I think you are absolutely right about the timing issue. When I looked at my videos again, I see that I am not standing tall at the right time. Thanks!
Old    Kat Laird (wakekat15)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-29-2007, 9:10 AM Reply   
Three suggestions....
1. You must stay on your toe side edge all the way up the wake. (See freeze frame where the spray is coming off your heelside edge, meaning you let off before reaching the wake.)
2. Keep your right hand on the handle all the way up. By letting go, you are opening up your hips, which makes it very difficult to land with pressure on your toes. (Notice how when you do land inside the second wake that your board is taking you right back where you came from.)
3. As you go up the toe side wake, think of locking your right elbow at your hip during take off. This will also stop you from opening up your hips. (You can let go on the way down if it helps you stay on your toe side edge for landing.)

Lastly, you will know when you edged properly all the way up, as the board will stay under you vs. going out front.
PS Get used to landing heelside with both hands on the handle as well. Once comfortable, you can start doing grabs since you have no issues landing with only one hand on the handle.

Upload
Old    Taylor M (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-29-2007, 11:17 AM Reply   
Lean more on the line. go back and do the drill. then go back and do the drill again. then do drill again. then do the drill again. this will make you a much better rider and teach you to edge which is the most important part in wakeboarding. Also another drill is to start your edge at the spray of the boat. I mean when you are riding only cut out to where thewhite spray is coming off the boat. Start your cut from here not way out. this will prove to you your edge is what takes you wake to wake. you wil find that by doing this you are probably coming just as close to w2w as you are when you cut all the way out. this is because you HAVE to hold your edge up the wake to even come close. go back and try these drill again. they get boring but will make you a better rider. the more you practice these drills the more you will build the proper muscle memory
Scott
Old    Tracy Ferguson (fergie23)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-30-2007, 3:58 PM Reply   
Thanks again for the tips--I have one more trip planned for the year and am hoping to improve my TS and go W2W this summer!

Scott--good drill! After doing it last time, I could feel myself letting go with one hand, even just edging thru. I will do it again!!

Kat - OK, so 2 hands, stay one edge, lock right elbow in, land on TS edge...I think I've got it and will work on this next time out. Does it look like I am cutting sharp enough into the wake TS?

Last thing, on HS do I need to stand taller right at the wake and push off to get better pop? From the videos, it looks like if I push off it is way too late.

Thanks again for the tips!
Old    Kat Laird (wakekat15)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-30-2007, 5:38 PM Reply   
Tracy,

Cutting "sharp" is never the answer in wakeboarding. The key is to edge out and wait....once you feel the boat start to pull you in, then you start to edge. This is true whether toe side or heel side. Remember, the rope should have the most tension at the "lift off" point....cutting sharp causes you to slow down and provide slack in the rope. Worry more about line tension and less about where to stand tall. That will come naturally with experience and improved timing.
Old    Taylor M (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-31-2007, 7:42 AM Reply   
Tracy It is a mental thing you are having because of the awkward feeling when landing toeside. On heelside Kat told you to land both hands on handle. Actually if you progress you really need to practice landing both hands, right hand only, and left hand only on the handle. when you pregress to doing inverts, some inverts are going to be this landing.
Line tension is key. The tension will give you the "pop" you need. as I said above practice that drill, it will put your body in the proper position. You have to be in that position at the wake to get the orrect pop. Mostly have fun
Old    Tracy Ferguson (fergie23)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-31-2007, 4:23 PM Reply   
Kat and Scott, thanks for taking the time to provide the comments and suggestions. They are much appreciated! I will take these ideas to the lake, do the drills, and focus on improving my progressive edge, increasing line tension and keeping two hands on the handle to help improve both my HS & TS jumps.

The other interesting comment someone made to me was to work on more of a straight-up type pop instead of using mostly speed to clear the wake. He said, it would then be easier to add grabs and take 180's etc. wake to wake and progress on from there. Right now I have a completely different jump when I do 180's (slower speed, less edge, etc). It seemed to make sense, and I think the things you are talking about here would help build the fundamentals I need to progress. Does this sound like the right way to be thinking about it? Right now, especially on HS, I am concerned with building enough speed using a hard edge to make sure I clear the wake that I sometimes don't get even as much pop as I used to when I was just doing 1-wake jumps. Also, before I could go W2W, I could do some decent grabs, and now I'm not really able to...or I'm not sure if I'm able to without crashing. Anyway, hopefully I can put this imformation to use next time and clear the wake TS and improve the height on my HS jumps...and maybe add some grabs back! Thanks!
Old    Taylor M (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-31-2007, 6:14 PM Reply   
Tracy-Slow down your speed. Taylor used to ride around 22 mph or a few tenths faster. Her coach has gotten her to slow down to around 20 and her riding is soooo much different. Her height or pop is incredible. Use only enough speed to clear the wake. she rides behind an X2 on 70 feet of line and this speed is perfect. she is floating her jumps inverts and grabs. truely concentrate and even video tape when you do the edging drill and go back & focus on your body position when you are all the way at te end of the line edging on your toes. this position is the EXACT position you want at the wake. do not let off. I know it is scary but this will make you a better rider and teach you all about pop & line tension. also you want to ride up the wake with 2 hands then land with only one on your toeside.
Old    Melody (finleym)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-03-2007, 8:26 PM Reply   
Keep edging all the way through and then on your heelside when you hit the top of the wake stand tall that will help with your pop. On toeside stay over your toes longer and straighten your back arm out and tension on the line and you will clear it everytime. We just had some lessons from a pro womens rider and she was awesome! Her instructions helped me a lot. I am clearing toeside and working on 180's now.
Old    Tracy Ferguson (fergie23)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-04-2007, 3:23 PM Reply   
Scott--I think I understand what you are saying about slowing down some and using only enough speed to clear the wake. Right now, with the speed I have, it is difficult to work on grabs or 180's or even get the correct fundamentals down. I'll definitely work on the edging drill to improve my edging technique. One question, when doing the drill do edge out as far as you can then drift back in and edge progressively toward the wake like you would with a normal approach, except edge all the way thru without jumping? When I tried it, it took awhile to find the right speed for the longer rope to minimize the wake but I could feel improvement in my edging and form already. I don't think I was edging all the way out and focusing on that position though and will add that aspect. I watched Taylor's video on the Maven site and she definitely has good pop and it does seem like she practically floats on the jumps and grabs.

Melody--thanks, I will work on those aspects of my TS and am hoping to finally get it next time out!

I am planning on doing a lesson next week and am hoping that having someone watch and critique me in person will also help!
Old    Taylor M (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-04-2007, 6:11 PM Reply   
Tracy- actually that video was shot earlier this year while she was still riding faster. We should have a new one up in a week or so it is being edited by a friend of mine. It will be good to see the difference between the style. Taylor can go w2w at about 18mph and grab and everything. It is all about your edge not speed. When you do the drill, try to go normal riding speed. you may have a little jump but you dont want to be jumping huge. Edge from side to side all the way out and hold that edge. when the rope will not let you edge any farther, keep edging. this should be your body position all the way up the wake. you are building muscle memory while doing this. Mike Ferraro told Taylor simply "If you want to be better than Dallas, you have to be able to edge better than Dallas". Your edge will get you the pop to take your ts jumps to 180s & grabs. get your w2w down first then work on 180s & grabs. This will come just dont rush it. The last 2 years Taylor has had basics repeatedly drilled in to her. This will come but sooo many people are hs heavy and can't do anything ts. If you want to discuss it more pm me and I will give you my # & talk to you about it more
Old    WakesetterLSV (closedtoe)      Join Date: Jan 2007       09-05-2007, 3:48 PM Reply   
What made toeside click for me was turning my back away from the boat and putting the handle close to my butt and getting a progressive cut allthe way through the wake.

Good Luck

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