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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through June 20, 2007

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Old    concerned (concerned_tsr_rider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-18-2007, 6:57 AM Reply   
Now this is just a rant about how the park is setup. I think the cable operators are great!!! Especially when they kept those OWC riders in line. ; )

My complaint is that they finally mixed the park up a little bit by putting in a new rail which everyone was digging but since the cable park manager did not like them he removed it a week or two after.

Now, I heard a couple reasons for the removal and I thing they could have been easily fixed. One was the cable was out of the water and the rope might get caught. It was only two to three inches out of the water which I think if you tried hard enough you could have sank the rail so it was even with the water. The other reason I heard was that it was too close to the turn and it was causing people to fall trying to make the turn. Again I think a minor adjustment to the rail point it more towards the turn would have resolved this issue.

I think this park need a good restructuring to suit all levels of riding and all types of riding. If you are a wakeskater there is not much to do unless you are a superstar or you donít mind walking a half mile each time you fall. If you are a beginner/intermediate wakeboarder there are only a few things for you as well and if they are broken which seems to happen a lot you are SOL on hitting anything.

I think their management to listen more closely what the average rider wants because that is who your customer base is.

If you feel the same please let them know as I donít think it will change until there is a bigger voice from the riders who ride in the park.

Email - blake@texasskiranch.com
Old    Shane Lafferty (pickle311)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-18-2007, 9:55 AM Reply   
if an average rider only hits average rails, he or she will never get any better, you have to push your limits to progress and that's what they are doing. TSR has turned a lot of average riders into kick ass riders.
Old    concerned (concerned_tsr_rider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-18-2007, 10:01 AM Reply   
Shane,

I have to disagree, there are a lot of tricks you can do on a flat bar and or the slant rail they had out there.

My main point is to switch it up a little bit a put more hits out there for people to try.
Old    Austin Hegarty (thirdgear)      Join Date: Jul 2005       06-18-2007, 11:01 AM Reply   
concerned,

I've asked this question before as well -- nice post.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-18-2007, 11:32 AM Reply   
concerned,

I also agree. There needs to be smaller rails for both goofy and regular riders so that they can practice small before they go to the bigger stuff.
Old    Mike Zimmer (mx118)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-18-2007, 11:38 AM Reply   
Yeah, I feel the same way.

I liked that new slider and sent and e-mail to Blake and Paul hoping to be able to keep it. I did not get a responce though.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       06-18-2007, 11:39 AM Reply   
I hated that stupid rail. It was right in my way as I do a lot of air tricks to the inside. So I ended up doing air tricks over it, which is dangerous and I probably shouldnít have. The reason they took that rail out is because a rope was going around with no rider and the handle got caught on the rail. It gave the whole system a good yank. Fortunately the cable system was fine. When TSR has competitions spectators donít want to see riders going around hitting 2 ft rails all day, they want to see something exciting and the riders want to ride something exciting. As for the rails they have out there I see people who have never hit a slider in their life do them the first day out. I even saw some dude do the transfer his first time. Just nut up and hit the A-Frame itís not hard, then you wonít care about the midget rail that was there for the contestÖitís not hard, just a little scary at first.
Old    Austin Hegarty (thirdgear)      Join Date: Jul 2005       06-18-2007, 11:47 AM Reply   
Benjamin,

Short of the logistical problems involving the cable getting snared on the obstacle, you've completely missed the point of this thread.
I, for one, feel that the park could benefit greatly from the addition of a properly-placed, mellowed-out rail.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       06-18-2007, 12:07 PM Reply   
all I'm saying is the rails they already have out there are not hard to it. You don't have to be a "superstar" to hit them. Anyway the funbox and the picnic table in the back is about as "mellowed out" as you can get...only it's not a rail. Maybe they could replace the picnic table with a rail.
Old    Austin Hegarty (thirdgear)      Join Date: Jul 2005       06-18-2007, 12:12 PM Reply   
They may not be hard to hit, but they're still a big piece to bite off for anyone who hasn't hit a rail before. The low long rail off to the right of the starting ramp is nice and mellow, but it's hard for some to reach it.
I agree with what you said about the picnic table; that'd be a great spot/obstacle to replace with some sort of mellower rail setup.
Old    concerned (concerned_tsr_rider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-18-2007, 12:27 PM Reply   
Benjamin,

I have seen you out there a couple time and I do not remember you hitting any rails only doing air tricks (which are way cool).

As far as what people want to see, I saw someone do a clean 270 up the slant rail which was way cool.

I am not saying the rail had to stay in that place that it was. TSR has a lot of water to play with.

A flat bar or the slant rail would be cool for most people to practice.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       06-18-2007, 12:35 PM Reply   
I don't hit the rails all the much because they mess up my board. My Shane lasted me 2 months and I don't want the same thing to happen to my natural.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       06-18-2007, 12:36 PM Reply   
I agree. Friday was my 2nd time to TSR (first in 3 years) and that slant rail was my first time ever hitting anything other than the ramp and kicker. I had a lot of fun on it and it was challenging having to ollie up on it since it was several inches out of the water. I came back on Sunday (yesterday) and it was gone. I was disappointed as well and tried my luck with the longer more intimdating Liquid Force / Wakeboarding Mag slider on the right. It didn't go so well...see pics.
http://www.pbase.com/eubanks01/texas_ski_ranch

I liked it several years ago when the ramp was closer to the starting dock. It is more fun for beginners to try their luck there when first hitting stuff and doing 3's and such and not having to walk the 5 minute walk back to the dock.

All in all, it's a very fun place though and the operators are more than helpful.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-18-2007, 12:43 PM Reply   
Benjamin, I wasnt saying the whole lake should be saturated with beginner rails. How hard would it to be to have like a 50ft rail 3-4ft off the water. Sure it isnt an a-frame, but it would still be a nice rail to work on bs boardslides and just getting your regular stuff dialed before you hit the big stuff.
Old    Dizzy Jenkins (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       06-18-2007, 1:09 PM Reply   
ugh, that thrid pic looks painful.
Old    Tom Fooshee (texasskiranch)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-18-2007, 1:43 PM Reply   
alrighty, if you guys dont mind, ill fill you in a little about what was going on with that rail. I am a cable operator at TSR (thank you concerned) and a forum reader but i rearely ever post. It was a great rail, alot of fun for wakeboarders and skaters but as much as i didnt want that rail to leave the water, it had to. The ollie on portion could of easily been fixed but that wasnt the problem. if it got windy out there then ropes would blow into the rail and catch and that would do some severe damage to the cable that i would not want to be fixing. 2nd, it also was not allowing riders (of all abilities) to get back to the bouys to turn around the corner quick enoughm, resulting in a hard yank on the rope that caused alot of people to shoot ropes into the motor of the cable, and thats pretty bad. There probably wont be any rails into that area of the lake but we are keeping that rail so it might show up somewhere around the lake, but either way it wasnt because we didnt like the rail, we loved it, it was just for the safety of the cable. thank you
Old    concerned (concerned_tsr_rider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-18-2007, 2:16 PM Reply   
Tom,

Questions:

1st - If you sank the slider more or added a piece to it would not the cable/handle slide over it?

2nd - If you turn the kicker to face the shore would that not put the rider in a better position to make the turn in turn reducing the cause of shooting ropes into the motor?

I think something like the flat bar they have at OWC would make a great addition to TSR.

Upload
Old    Mike Zimmer (mx118)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-18-2007, 2:49 PM Reply   
Eubanks,

I saw you out there on Sunday but I did not see you bail. That slider has gotten me a few times.

It a hard one to get on sometimes if you don't have the timing right.
Old    blake Hess (blakehess1)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-18-2007, 4:30 PM Reply   
Hey guys, I had to make the decision on pulling the slider out. It was for many reasons, all concerned with safety, first for riders and second for the cable system itself. We will continue to change up the park and keep on expanding the diversity of the structures at TSR. Everyone likes something different and we do our best to accomodate as many opinions as possible. When we put in a new structure all of the operators get together and make some drawings, then we tame them down a bit and all agree before we build something. Here are some of the thoughts we consider when planning where a new slider is placed.

Some of the sliders are difficult to get to because new riders sometimes overestimate their ability and are not ready. If it is further outside the cable a new rider can not just give into peer pressure and try it, he or she must be a good enough rider to edge out to it.

Also many injuries on sliders happen when people fall off the outside and are pulled back into the slider, similar to the photos linked above (Sweet crash by the way!) by putting the structures farther out the rider is most often pulled off to the inside and hits only the water which is far safer.

We have a long term plan that includes adding a transfer box to the side of the lf slider and we needed to plan ahead to have room. We need to keep the center of the cable clear so beginners do not accidently hit strucutres as well. I had a good friend that was trying to hold onto a trick and drug into a structure and hurt. If they are far away and planned safely this shouldn't happen.

I have seen a few riders try to ollie onto the new slider and wreck themself because they didn't quite get on. We couldn't sink it more because of the way it was built as well as the changing depth from evaporation in the summer (remember last year our lake was 2feet lower and could happen again very easily)

There are a lot of reasons and I appreciate the concern and feedback so we can plan our next rail. Mike sorry I didn't reply to your email, I did not get it but if you have any other questions just ask! I hope I answered most questions and no one thinks that we pulled it out because I didn't like it, that is the farthest from the truth. Because we are open to the public and we can't stop riders from hitting obstacles on the cable (Behind a boat you can always shut it down or not drive close enough) we need to make obstacles much differently than something that goes in your backyard for only experienced riders to hit. Yes while some beginners loved it others may have gotten severley injured on the temporary incline or flat rail. We just can't take that chance, I hope you understand.

Blake
Old    Mike Zimmer (mx118)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-18-2007, 4:51 PM Reply   
Blake,

No worries on the e-mail I just really liked that slider and would like to see things get mixed up a bit.

These plans that you have, are they coming soon? Is it a money thing? If so, is there a way for a company to sponsor a slider?
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       06-18-2007, 4:54 PM Reply   
Mike!

I definitely recognize your picture. It's funny because I actually heard you mention to some guy about "Have you heard of Wakeworld?" I would have loved to visit but we were on our way out and I only got to ride for one hour.

Yeah, I hit the rail several times and kept getting pulled off early to the left by the cable. I really tried to edge out hard on that attempt to get some slack but I ended up over-shooting the rail as you can see in the first picture.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       06-18-2007, 5:00 PM Reply   
Blake - We appreciate your insight and I'm sure there is a lot of planning that goes into the locations of these things. I guess it's hard to know where to position something where it is safe for everyone. It totally makes sense to put things out farther to keep newbies away. At the same time though it makes it very hard for new people to learn to hit these things. The only reason I had that crash was trying to really get out wide because I had been pulled off that slider the previous 5 times to the inside within the first 10 feet.

Thanks for all you guys do down there. The line was crazy on Friday with the camps going on (I waited almost 30 minutes for one run during a 2-hour session) but I can never fault the operators for trying to help out the kids that were there. Mad props for being so patient and helpful to everyone riding.
Old    blake Hess (blakehess1)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-18-2007, 10:09 PM Reply   
The plans for the box will come after summer, it is far to busy and labor intensive to make any big changes during summer. We got set back a little when the big kicker broke and we had to build a new one. The transfer box will be the first plan, we may also redo the WBM rail this fall. We used to have a flat rail there and the first box was there before that. we have less options with non floating structures but they last longer and have less maintenance.

Strucutres are great but I don't think most people know how much effort and money goes into building and upkeeping them. It is a lot different when they get hit as much as they do on the cable. If a rider was to hit a structure every time a carrier went by during a summer day it could get hit as much as 5400 times in a day. Realisticly it probably will get hit 1300-1500/day if it is a popular structure when we are open from 9am-midnight. That is way more hits in a day than most structures get in a lifetime.
Old    blake Hess (blakehess1)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-18-2007, 10:12 PM Reply   
Eubanks, next time you are out try to get on a carrier behind someone that hits that rail. The approach is key. You definately don't want slack, if you get out wide it is harder to stay on, you need to have some angle going into it so your inertia and motion keeps you up on it. I am not good at the one either, I have a hard time ollieing on switch.
Old    Mike Zimmer (mx118)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-19-2007, 6:03 AM Reply   
We can turn this thread into a "How to Master TSR Sliders with Blake Hess"?

Sounds good to me.
Old    concerned (concerned_tsr_rider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-19-2007, 11:09 AM Reply   
Blake,

I would like to say sorry about what I said that you did not like sliders. I was just a little frustrated and I think I took it out you.

I really like TSR and want to see it get better and I think mixing it up would help out and I was only posting this so you would not think it is not only one persons view.

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