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Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-31-2007, 6:01 AM Reply   
I can not believe the wake my friends runabout throws. Has anyone else been behind one of these boarding? He has a Horizon 200. Granted we had five people in the boat,but the wake was a really nice shape. I noticed once he pulled it out of the water the hull has an interesting shape in the rear that I don't see on other boats. He said Four Winns owns a patton on their hull design. He has it decked out with a tower as well. I am seriously thinking about getting one. the price is right and it looks great. What's your opinions?
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       05-31-2007, 6:14 AM Reply   
while not seeing that specific boat, I have seen a lot of different i/o wakes. None have encouraged me to buy the boat for wakeboarding. Now if you spend most of your time riding in the boat and cruising, it might be a great buy for you.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       05-31-2007, 7:12 AM Reply   
we started off on a horizon 190. i would definitley not compare the wake to any of the competition boats of today. on occasion the wake would be big, but the reality is it is so difficult to hold speed and keep the wake consistent. yeah you might hit it good on one cut in and the next cut the wake is mushed and so on so on...... it is just very difficult to keep the wake consistent... nice boat though...
Old    Derek Hagood (darv)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-31-2007, 7:56 AM Reply   
I've done most of my riding behind a Four Winns and I love the wake. For a fakeboard boat I think they have a good sized rampy wake. I agree with Diggs though, they do not compare to a modern wakeboard boat.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-01-2007, 1:47 AM Reply   
Now digs do you have perfect pass on your current boat and if so how can you compare the two? An I/O absolutely NEEDS perfect pass for it to be a decent boarding boat. An I/B or V can get away without it but hell I dont think you can even buy a pure wakeboard boat on a dealers lot without one. Why, because they work that good and make it easier to drive correctly. Scott if your sure the wake shape is good (I have a monterey 200 montura and it also has a good shape but gets wide so you need to keep the rope around 65-70') dont be afraid but be willing to spend some money to set it up (still will be cheaper then an already prepared wakeboard boat). Tower, racks, prop, and PP
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-01-2007, 5:40 AM Reply   
Thanks Bob! I will look into fitting a four winns up with a tower, perfect pass and all the essentials for wake. I think brand new it would be even cheaper than a used wake boat like a mastercraft, malibu, or nautique. The wave was pretty consistent and the water conditions were not throughout the day. My friends Four Winns does have a perfect pass. I remember seeing in his instrument clusters.
Old    Dante (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-01-2007, 6:58 AM Reply   
"An I/O absolutely NEEDS perfect pass for it to be a decent boarding boat."

Perfect Pass can't do anything a good driver can't do. Granted, good drivers are hard to come by and Perfect Pass is really nice but I'd hardly call it an absolute need.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-01-2007, 7:23 AM Reply   
Dante...I understand where your coming from. I am a pretty good driver. But I can't say that is completely true about family members and friends who drive my boat when I am in tow. So it is a nice feature when you rely on others to drive. Wish I had the luxury of having one other person that is use to towing me and is use to the boat and is good. Just never works out that way.
Old    Dante (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-01-2007, 8:18 AM Reply   
Scott, I agree completely that it's a nice feature. It's probably one of the nicest features you can have behind a tower and ballast. It was just that "absolutely NEEDS" business I took issue with.
Old    Eddy Celis (bughunter)      Join Date: Nov 2001       06-01-2007, 9:49 AM Reply   
I've been driving boats and towboats for 25 years. NO driver no matter how good can get close to holding the speed like Perfect Pass does. If you don't mind being low or high for 2 or 3mph, then it might work for you, otherwise there is no way.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-01-2007, 9:56 AM Reply   
Travis Moye doesnt seem to have a problem holding speed.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-01-2007, 10:04 AM Reply   
its true Eddy. That is one driver that can do it. He himself stated that claim right here on WW this past January.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-01-2007, 10:17 AM Reply   
Travis Moye doesn't use perfect pass....or MC Speed Control on the X-Star?
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       06-01-2007, 10:24 AM Reply   
i drive without PP every weekend... until a few weeks ago, i would have claimed to drive just as good as PP. but i added some weight...

I still think if i'm familiar with the boat and its propped right it would be hard to tell a PP pull from one of mine.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-01-2007, 10:30 AM Reply   
Do you drive without Perfect Pass because you don't have it, or because you choose to(you just don't turn it on)?

I have a hard time believing anyone can do the same job as a computer related to speed control. Add some not so perfect conditions and that becomes even more apparent.

I will assume that Travis has perfect pass or MC speed control in the X-Star.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       06-01-2007, 10:33 AM Reply   
don't have it and don't care to.

maybe i should, in the interest of MY pulls. teaching the woman to drive and IM SURE it would help. but at this point, its not a big deal. i've got other drivers.

i don't know about doing the same job, i bet you wouldn't notice.

(Message edited by denverd1 on June 01, 2007)
Old    Dillon Gross (lfrider139)      Join Date: May 2007       06-01-2007, 10:40 AM Reply   
no travis moye does not use PP not even when he pulls riders in least that is what he said in an interview
Old    Erik (etakk7)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-01-2007, 10:55 AM Reply   
using perfect pass will allow you to concentrate harder on the tricks that the rider is throwing as well as scouting out the path ahead. Maybe even control the volume on your stereo. It's nice to have one less thing to worry about.
Old    Tracktor (tracktor)      Join Date: Sep 2005       06-01-2007, 11:00 AM Reply   
Travis Moye also doesn't drive an I/O..........
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       06-01-2007, 11:13 AM Reply   
erik - i can agree with that, for sure. I just don't view it as a necessity.
traktor - i think thats the most important factor here. if i had an i/o, i might feel totally different...
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-01-2007, 11:14 AM Reply   
Good point tracktor...........I am sure Travis does not pay for his boats either. How did this thread turn to perfect pass? If I get this I/O....I will be getting a PP because other peeps that drive my boat while I am in tow will need to use it. maybe I will once in a while too. I am a good driver, but not a great driver. Get the tower and some ballast...I think this boat will kill for the money spent. Lets face it...I can buy a brand new Four Winns and have it paid for in 5 years as opposed to buying a used wakeboat for more money and not knowing if it was properly taken care of. My bro is a ASE master mechanic, but even he can not find all the quirks a used boat might have. used car is easier to find flaws, but boats can be tricky. Wouldn't you agree? If I knew a person selling a used wakeboat, then yes, that would be a possibility.
Old    Nate Eller (neller0414)      Join Date: May 2007       06-01-2007, 11:16 AM Reply   
scott...seriously, if you're considering a new boat really look into a wake boat. you can get a very late 90's direct drive for under 20g if you look hard enough. and trust me, owning an i/o and then buying a supra launch, unbelievable difference. ill help you find one if you want, you should come over and ride behind the supra sometime and see what not that much more cash feels like, i will never ride behind an i/o again.

i dont have pp, but ive been towing my whole life and i feel like i am nearly as good as a computer, but man when i get behind the boat and friends or the woman drives (shes getting better) its so bad the speed is all over the i'm looking into it basically just for my pulls so that whoever is driving can focus on steering, wakeplate adjustments, stereo, etc...i just cant justify 1500 bones for it yet.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       06-01-2007, 11:21 AM Reply   
scott, Sorry for jackin' ya thread!

I don't agree on cars vs. boats. boats are so simple. Engine and tranny mechanical issues. Interior condition, accessories, fiberglass condition, its all pretty obvious.

Cars can be wrecked and glued back together and someone who knows what they're doing would have to spend some time going over to it to find something.

I will say this: i think boats are more likely to be abused by careless ppl than cars. but i think that it would be obvious.
Old    Nate Eller (neller0414)      Join Date: May 2007       06-01-2007, 11:30 AM Reply   
scott another if you find a local boat like i did, go to the local brand dealer and ask them about it, cause most likely it was serviced there. i went to club royale right across the lake from me which is the largest supra dealer around here, and they did all the service on my boat and im the 3rd owner and actually the 1st owner was a mechanic that worked there i i knew it was well taken care of. just make sure you look into things, a used boat can really hurt you if you dont do the research, but if you watch your own @$$ then you can easily come out with an awesome decently new (5-8 years old) wake boat that will way way outperform any i/o wake.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-01-2007, 1:11 PM Reply   
nacho...maybe that is the angle I was thinking....I will say this: i think boats are more likely to be abused by careless ppl than cars. but i think that it would be obvious. I was thinken about a buddy of mine buying a used boat a few years back and it had a hair line crack in the hull that turned to a nasty spider crack after a few months use. I was thinking about that situation when making that post. cars can be a total in an accident and some shop stitched it back together making look great, but running gear is still damaged. So i agree with what your saying.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-01-2007, 1:57 PM Reply   
To get back to the Four Winns. The hull is unique. They use a patented hull called the Stable-Vee hull. This has a couple nice features. It gives you a nice reverse outer chine to keep the boat level whether through corners or just to balance the boat. It also has a stepped transom with built in "after pods" that almost act like built in trim tabs. This lets the boat have very minimal bowrise for an I/O as well as letting them plane at lower speeds. I have been in a 200 horizon and a 220 horizon with quite a few people. Both were able to hold 18-19 mph on plane. This is something that you won't find in most I/O's The fit and finish is hard to beat in an any other I/O. All this being said it won't replace a pure tournament boat. It is a nice option for a family who doesn't want to spend 50k-100k or that aren't sure they really need a wake specific boat. It will ride better in rough water and be a dryer ride. I sell Four Winns so take my post for what it is worth. I do however sell Mastercraft and Centurion as well.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-01-2007, 2:09 PM Reply   
Thanks Brett. I really like the facts you posted. I thought the hull was different. Definitely making it a different ride on the wake. My friends boat was really nice to ride behind. And every Wednesday I am riding behind a Malibu with some friends. That is why the Four Winns caught me off guard when I boarded behind it. It was really nice. Plus the $$ amount..Could not believe it. The fit and finish did seem really well put together. I was disappointed in another friends Sea Ray last year. The trim had gaps and such. Just didn't seem like quality. But the Four Winns, seems to me, to be a real quality boat. Not ripping on wakeboats, but for the price and the riding I want to do. It seems like a good fit.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-01-2007, 2:15 PM Reply   
Remember, absolutely no surfing if you buy an I/O.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-01-2007, 9:23 PM Reply   
....Brett why not...makes it more of an adventure!
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-01-2007, 9:52 PM Reply   
ughhhh not soooooo funny...
Old    Marc (wake_pirate)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-02-2007, 10:48 PM Reply   
I own an 87 Four Winns 21', Deep Vee, bags & a tower, when I first got it, I was just starting out wakeboarding. Everything was great, I progessed & thought I was doing good. Then I started riding behind Sangers, Calibrias, etc etc,....I havent rode behind my boat in over 8 months. I took it out the other day.......I'm done, its going up for sale next spring. The difference is the wake, speed control, ride, etc. Its like going from an SUV to a sports car. I'm sold on comp wake boats.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-04-2007, 1:35 AM Reply   
I stand behind my original comment and anyone who thinks they can make millions of sample rates per second while doing everything else (short of on a closed wakeboard course with no other boats or people in the boat, etc, etc)...come on now thats just keep telling yourself you NEVER slip up and go over or under the set speed and I will KNOW I dont.
Oh yea I have ridden behind a supra ssv and my wake was just as good or better unweighted. His boat had just as many problems as mine. His is gone and I still have mine, other reasons though not related to maintenance.
I do love the sportscar feel when driving but when you are operating a stereo, other boats are out, people in the boat are distracting you, and you need to keep track of the rider I even used PP in his boat. Yes I could have driven without but do you drive on the interstate without cruise JUST CAUSE YOU CAN?
Nate trust me you have NOT driven anyones boat with perfect pass that much or you would be hooked because of the ease it puts on your concentration to do other things. Like Keith Code (Twist of the Wrist)once wrote you only have a dollars worth of attention and when keeping speed takes .50 you only have .50 left over for everything else.
Hope everyone had a good weekend.


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