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Old    Tobin (tobs2)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-29-2007, 12:44 PM Reply   
Please send this to everyone you know to help stop this!!! Thanks!!

[bawsc-all] TOWN MEETING: Discovery Bay Waterski Ban- Tomorrow 7:00pm (5/30/07)
From: on behalf of Dave Kroske (
You may not know this sender. Mark as safe | Mark as unsafe
Sent:Tue 5/29/07 3:19 PM
To: BAWSC- Yahoo groups (; BAWSC-all Yahoo groups (

Fellow Delta skiers:

Please check out the above link if you have any interest in stopping an imminent ski ban being rammed through the Contra Costa County board of Supervisors and the D’Bay CSD board NOW!. They propose to ban skiing from Orwood (Werner cut) and all of Indian slough, all the way out to Old River!

This is a lot of info, but on a very important topic.

Thank you for looking into this.

Dave Kroske
PS. If you can, please check the above web site, then Submit public comment at link below.

Indicate it is for Ordinance 2007-22 prohibiting waterskiing near Discovery Bay

Email directly, The Members of the Discovery Bay Town Council and the County Board of Supervisors and Express your Opinion
Contact Us:

Not a single death in this area is due to watersports – this ordinance unfairly targets watersports enthusiasts.

Accidents in this area are largely due to excessive speed and alcohol – this ordinance wouldn’t have prevented a single death.

This ordinance essentially creates a freeway from Orwood to Old River, likely increasing speeds and accidents. It is a killer.

This ordinance paves the way for a 5MPH zone putting the watersports we all love in further jeopardy. The supporters say this isn’t true, but isn’t it the logical next step after the next death due to excessive speed and drinking.

* This ordinance paves the way for more deep water development – Private Island Homes will require this to be a 5MPH zone, this is the first step.

BOTTOM LINE: This isn’t about safety! If it were it would address the cause of accidents! It DOESN’T. Discovery Bay has prided itself on being the place to “Live Where You Play”. Our very way of life is under attack. Don’t believe for a second it is anything less.

Even if you 100% agree that something needs to be done to improve safety, you should NOT support this ordinance. As would be done for any road, a traffic study should be done, and an effective plan to address the REAL safety problem should be identified.

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Old    murrayair            05-29-2007, 12:59 PM Reply   
I sent an email. Scary stuff. I usually try to attend town council meetings that involve banning/restricing wakeboarding, but I can't make it tomorrow night. Hopefully I can get some friends that live out by disco bay to show up. Fight hard, guys!
Old    murrayair            05-29-2007, 1:29 PM Reply   
Oh, btw, here is a copy the email I sent, in case anyone wants to use it.

Dear County Officials,

I am writing regarding the proposed ban of waterskiiing and wakeboarding on the Delta. Such a ban would serve no discernable purpose other than to bring an end to watersports activities enjoyed by hundreds of people each summer. In no way are waterskiing and wakeboarding doing any damage to property on the Delta or bringing harm to other boaters. The vast majority of accidents caused on the Delta, indeed on any waterway, are caused by excessive alcohol consumption and reckless speeding, not by the towing of a waterskiier or wakeboarder behind a boat. Almost all watersports enthusiasts are responsible people who respect the rules of boating and just want enjoy the sun and the water like everyone else. In fact, there have been no deaths due to watersports in this area, which raises a question as to the logic of prohibiting such inherently safe activities. A better solution would be to go after those who are directly responsible for most boating accidents– those who drink and drive on the Delta. Please consider these points before making a decision that could negatively impact many civil and law-abiding citizens of the area.

Old    George Gilbert (geogilbert)      Join Date: May 2007       05-29-2007, 1:36 PM Reply   
We went through this in S. Florida where I grew up. I am not sure about the real reasons behind this proposal but after you got past all the BS reasons it primarily boiled down to people not wanting to have big wakes hitting their seawalls. (Even though they were well aware that people skied on the river when they bought their houses.)

What we did and what seams to work in these situations is to get as many kids at the meeting as you possibly can. Have them lined up out side and around the block if you can. If they have ever been on the water or not makes no difference, offer pizza, ice cream or what ever it takes to fill the house with 10 – 15 year olds. Then if you can have a few kids tell about how great it is to spend time with their families on the water.

No council man or woman will have the balls to stand up in front of the town and say to a room full of kids “I am going to take away one of the last wholesome places left for you to have fun.”

You can also go with the “If these kids were not out on the water they would probably be on the streets doing drugs or stealing your car approach, but that seams a bit overboard.
Old    Myke D (breakz77)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-29-2007, 3:20 PM Reply   
I'm sorry but if any of you saw those sloughs this weekend and saw the people towing down these sloughs and thought it was safe.. you really don't care about peoples lives.

Oh and to put signs up, send emails or start threads stating that they are "Banning wakeboarding/sking on the Delta" to get people to help fight it is wrong. You should write "indian slough" not the whole delta. I've heard 2 dozens times this week that it was being banned IN THE DELTA.

that is my opinion!

(Message edited by breakz77 on May 29, 2007)
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-29-2007, 3:46 PM Reply   
Myke, I fully agree... There are too many stupid boaters out there that think it's ok to pull tubes through that area on memorial day weekend. The big downer is that Indian slough is the go to spot for us to ride weeknights when it's blown out. I'll be disappointed if we no longer have that option.

I also think that the real solution to solving the problems out there is to impose a 25mph speed limit. Coming around those corners at 40mph is just plain un-safe.
Old (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-29-2007, 3:50 PM Reply   
25mph would show a bias to wakeboarders when skiers need to go faster.....I cant see that working.
Old    Robert Thorson (thor)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-29-2007, 3:55 PM Reply   
In my opinion wakeboarding, water skiing, tubing, etc... should be banned in Indian Slough from Memorial Day through Labor Day on Saturday, Sunday and holidays. This area is so congested with boat traffic that anyone in the water is at risk of being run over by a careless boater. As for the balance of the year, and weekdays during the summer, it should be open to use for all water sports.

This compromise will satisfy those concerned with safety as well as the hardcore wake boarders that use the slough during the week.
Old    Myke D (breakz77)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-29-2007, 4:01 PM Reply   
Evan I do agree that it is a nice place to ride on weekdays, it's the closest slough to my house.

I'm down to help stop the ban if whomever organized this had another plan in it's place and stopped making it seem like it's on the whole delta in order to get the support. That part I guess has just got on my nerves.
Old    deltahoosier            05-29-2007, 5:57 PM Reply   
You really think we are so stupid to believe it is on the whole delta? I think people are smart enough to realize where the ban is.

When I see people boarding or towing people in the slough especially right out of the five coming from Orwood on a weekend, I usually think they are stupid for doing so. Beyond my fleeting thought of stupidity, I just see the ban as a bunch of rich people trying to tie up the area so they can bring their big yachts and penis boats in at full speed. The statistics do not seem to point to a problem of safety at all. The ban on their premise needs to be stopped. I do like Roberts idea. I kind of was saying the same thing a couple of weeks ago myself.

I want to know who the idiot was that signed off on allowing people to put those docks in on Orwood slough.
Old    chriscut            05-30-2007, 12:52 PM Reply   
I'll be there tonight at 7pm to show my support. There are better solutions than a flat out ban. Is anyone else going?
Old    Sb1 (sb1)      Join Date: Aug 2002       05-30-2007, 1:22 PM Reply   
With all due respect, I believe the bigger issue is being overlooked here. As many of you know, there is a developer trying to add 6000 (approx.) new homes just east of disco bay. To do that they will need to overcome many issues, but the main one is water rights. If I was a betting man, I would say that the wake/ski ban is a precursor to turn the whole thing into a 5 zone from orwood to old river. I think we can all agree that would not be good from a recreational standpoint, not to mention the impact on home values. I could be paranoid, but I see a slippery slope here.

It is easy to pass this off as a safety issue, but the fact is the delta (not just indian slough) can be a dangerous place. IMO, the solution should be focused on boater education. Perhaps a mandatory training course and subsequent certification. Btw, this is coming from someone who had their boat hit my a maniac bass fisherman on inidan slough. Truth is that this could have happened at a number of similar spots on the delta.

It will be interesting to see how many people show up tonight.
Old    Schneid (kurtuleas)      Join Date: May 2007       05-30-2007, 1:49 PM Reply   
The problem with banning ANYTHING is that it sets a precedent to ban other stuff. If we let them ban watersports on Indian, what's next? Stuff will just steamroll. Why do you think the NRA fights every little gun law, even if it seems like a great idea?

While supposably no one has gotten hurt, I cringe everytime I see someone towing their 6 year old on an inflatable, esp. right in front of Disco proper. It's a pain to navigate thru that with (what seems like) a lot of people from out of town that do not know any better. There are TONS of empty sloughs if you just take the time to get there..

I agree that better boater education or (even better) signs that say something along the lines of "not advised during busy weekends" would be a better option.

As for those docks on Orwood, the sign says 5 MPH when boats are DOCKED. I think those places are rentals???? There are not boats docked there too often.

I still idle past them anyway just in case, but I always see people blow through there....
Old    Aaron Nielsen (lzyboy)      Join Date: Jun 2001       05-30-2007, 1:51 PM Reply   

I agree with you 100% & agree this is likely why the ban was moved FWD so quickly with little notification to the public.

It is likely the reason the BAN wasn't enforced only to the end of Discovery bay / 5 MPH / opening as we know it today. IMO the only reason it was extended out to the main channel is for the eventual development in the works.

Old    chriscut            05-31-2007, 7:43 AM Reply   
There was a huge turn out last night. I'd say the crowd of I'm guessing 300 people, we're 97% against the ordinance. The board seemed to have already formed their descition, and accroding to one person who spoke up in the crowd, the town hall meeting was not the idea of city hall, as in they were forced to do it. So what happens now? do we just wait and see how they implement what the board thinks should be done? If they go ahead and implement this I can't see any of the city council getting re-elected
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-31-2007, 9:28 AM Reply   
Thats sad to say the least Chris. I had wanted to go but the drive was just too much with work; I am glad to hear people showed up in strength though! This is pretty much one of those issues that REALLY gets me mad. I dealt with a similar issue involving "red stickered" motocross bikes. There was a TON of support and it did nothing! It was like our support and efforts went completely un-noticed.

Hopefully someone can get the message out in a large way that if the city council doesnt listen to its voters things will change next election!
Old    Ride4Him (jcstudebaker)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-31-2007, 9:48 AM Reply   
I think the main point of concern here is... Chris why are you up and posting at 645 am. Are you loco?
Old    chriscut            05-31-2007, 10:32 AM Reply   
JC, I really care about our Delta water ways....and I was working at 5am this morning

But seriously, Things do not look good. Facts and statistics were twisted, and even lied about apparently by the board. It will be such a shame if this goes through.

The Orwood resort owner brought a lawyer to speak in behalf of their business. He stated that they stepped their bounds by implementing the ban all the way to Orwood since it is out of their scope of jurisdiction. Soon after the rudest person on the board (not sure who he was) informed everyone that they would be shrinking the ban back a little, but honestly not by much.

I urge everyone to fight this in any way possible.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-31-2007, 11:32 AM Reply   
Chris, what would you suggest we do? Say for someone like me who comes from out of town often to ride the delta? I noticed there are links to write letters too in above posts, is that all we can do? I want to make sure the time I spend helping fight this is the most efficient possible, and makes the biggest splash!

How many lawyers were present? Was there a lawyer there to speak on behalf of the general population? As much as I hate the litigacy of CA, it might be a good idea to talk to a lawyer about alternative means for fighting this? I have seen situations where the mere presence of possible litigation scared the opposition into backing down. If so, is there a paypal account setup for this? FWIW I would think that if the DRA (or any other association) was involved with it, it would give people the confidence their donation was going to a good cause.
Old    Ride4Him (jcstudebaker)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-31-2007, 11:40 AM Reply   
We should throw a contest/just a general get together, so the people really know the presence of the Waterski community. Kinda like a demonstration, get newpapers there tv stations and have some demos from pros, I dont know its an idea.
Chris, would you agree this is a matter for El Guapo the wakeboarding superhero?

(Message edited by jcstudebaker on May 31, 2007)
Old    chriscut            05-31-2007, 12:42 PM Reply   
Matt, I'm hoping that some people who know more familiar witht this issue than I do can speak up on the thread on what we can do now. A lawyer would be a good plan, I agree. and a fund raiser.. good idea!!!

JC, I like where your head is at. Such good ideas.

It is so ridiculous that they want a 24/7/365 ban on a waterway that goes practically unused on weekdays, even more so in winter. another big point that a home owner had was that if they move the ridable water out that far away, it will cause home prices to drop since they are further from fast water. which will also cause property taxes to drop.. etc.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-31-2007, 1:36 PM Reply   
Yes Chriscut, good point. There was a current article in the WSJ regarding there being a record number of people fighting their property assessments. IMHO those who are fighting this need to get organized, hire a lawyer and create the largest comprehensive list possible of all the facts, circumstances and negative effects.

The sad part is that I just rode on that slough last week on tues afternoon with a few buds. We saw a total of 3-4 boats roll through during the 6 sets we took. The majority of the delta was blown out that day and the only other decent area was the "tracks" which was a bit of a drive in comparison.
Old    Ron (ronnyboy27)      Join Date: Nov 2005       05-31-2007, 5:21 PM Reply   
Vote them out!
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       05-31-2007, 10:10 PM Reply   
Anybody available next Tuesday at 9AM? I'll be there. Read on. This is being pushed largely by Offshore Power Boaters.

We need to re-direct the safety focus on speed, it is the cause of most accidents in this area.

The next step is to get as many people as we can to the County Board of Supervisors meeting in Martinez next Tuesday morning at 9:00am. Two supervisors actually insisted on the special CSD meeting over CSD’s objections. They had it, as required and ignored it (before it even happened). If we can get the CC county supervisors to decide to actually consider the facts for themselves, we may have a shot. They had stated publicly , that in matters of Discovery Bay, They defer to Mary, and simply vote along with her. You already described the road that takes us down: 1) closing down Golden Gate Ski club’s island, 2) closing off both Grant Line & Fabian & Bell sloughs, 3) Ski ban Indian and Werner sloughs... The slope does not get any slipperier. Water sports are now officially an endangered species. You call it correctly that this is simply a 3rd domino. And the dominos will begin falling faster going forward!
Old    chriscut            06-01-2007, 1:04 PM Reply   
9am? thats too bad. everyone who rides has to work to afford their boats... why cant they have this at 6 or 7pm? the turn out would be a LOT bigger! I'm going to try to get time off of work to make it to this. I hope people see the urgency and will take the time to fight for their riding spots.

(Message edited by chriscut on June 01, 2007)
Old    Greg "The Hammer" (leaks)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-04-2007, 9:54 AM Reply   
Here is a link for the latest info:
Everyone needs to show up in Martinez on Tuesday 6/5 to speak their voice, or to be support. This topic is first on the aggenda to be heard at 9:00 a.m.
Old    chriscut            06-04-2007, 2:45 PM Reply   
I got the OK from the boss to take time off to go to this! Stoked!
Old    Greg "The Hammer" (leaks)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-05-2007, 2:42 PM Reply   
Here's the judgment:
I just sat from 9:30 to 1:00 listening to about 45 people say their peace the whole "No Pull Zone" In short, heres what has been decided:

1) The area covered will extend from Orwood Resort, down Indian Slough, and end at the entrance to the Disco Bay Marina.

2) The ordinance will ONLY be in effect ON WEEKENDS and Holidays between April, and September.

This comprimise allows us locals, and midweek Skiers/Boarders to continue our mid week adventures.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-05-2007, 5:28 PM Reply   
Glad to hear the good news, this is probably the best scenario we could ask for; since they were probably going to get some sort of ban.

Greg, what was the general position (i.e. 50% were for total 5mph etc.)?
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       06-05-2007, 9:27 PM Reply   
I had to leave at noon, luckily I was the third speaker.

Nobody seemed to support a 5mph zone.

I would actually like to see some sort of speed limit in these waterways. There is nothing like having an offshore race boat bearing down on your rider at 80mph in a 200' wide slough... I have actually stopped keeping my boat at Discovery Bay, due to safety concerns. It's crazy to think I have a lift on the water behind my mom's house and I tow my boat to the lake. As much as I hate to admit it, we definately have some safety concerns in the southern delta. I guess it's equally crazy to think that it's perfectly legal to fly down these waterways at 100+MPH.

About 20 years ago my friend killed himself testing his dragboat in the northern delta. If there was a speed limit he might be here today to see his now 19 year old son.

I am quite torn over supporting any kind of speed ban for fear that it would end up being 5MPH. On the other hand if I am already avoiding the delta because of speeding boats (in excess of 50MPH) maybe I should suggest a speed limit?

Feel free to send me your thoughts.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       06-05-2007, 9:40 PM Reply   
Just discovered that my recorded comment made the radio:
Old    Wesley Polhamus (wdp)      Join Date: Feb 2007       06-05-2007, 9:42 PM Reply   
I believe that this is the way things are going to start heading in this state. We have a lot of people that 1. have no clue how to operate boat 2. and operate those boats impaired. There is a small lake down in bakersfield that does not allow jetskis,inflatables, and only allow alcohol by permit. This would have been a better solution to make D'bay (or any other problem waterway) safer without punishing the law abiding citizens.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-05-2007, 9:43 PM Reply   
i hate ot say it mike but with as little patrol on the delta already i highly doubt that a spped limit would keep people from speeding, just like in a car. shoot if im on the freeway im usually at a minimum of 10 above the limit.
Old    chriscut            06-05-2007, 10:50 PM Reply   
an online news story about today's events:

I was there for the first half of the meeting; I wish I could have stayed until the end, but I had to leave to get back to work. Those of you who spoke to oppose the ban did a really good job of representing the community... definitely a lot better job than the district supervisor and disco bay CSD have.. thats for sure.


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